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The Division 2 Title Update 3: Operation Dark Hours - Patch Notes

Should they add matchmaking for the Raid?


  • Total voters
    242
  • This poll will close: .
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Mister. I have been playing with randoms from Level 1 to Tier 5, and I have zero issues with people playing like shit or not communicating or rage quitting. I have a clan with 8+ people; good luck having the clan show up at the same time, especially when half the player base has ditched the game.

I will not only eat crow, but I will also bathe in its blood. I rather have matchmaking than no matchmaking, but you Mister can enjoy your wankfest in a dead-ass game.

It's as if *gasp* people just want to play games, and the person on the other end is a human being!
Why do people in this thread keep insisting that the raid is nothing more than a stronghold with 8 players. Nothing from datamines or dev material suggests that.

It will have mechanics. How much communcation those require will remain to be seem but the devs have been championing that this is a "true" raid experience.

At the very least, if they have matchmaking on there needs to be an unskippable warning (at least until you clear it once) that this content requires a mic or text chat if you are on PC. That way instead of you having a 1% chance of finding a good crew you have maybe a 10% chance of finding good crew.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23
THE 100 is always an option...

I put a game up for anyone who wants to get their feet wet with the raid on PC for Thursday night at 11:00 PM EST...

https://www.the100.io/game/1302264
I wish I started using that website sooner for Destiny. Was the only way I could find to actually get to raid in forsaken every week with every character. The discord hasn't been a viable option (for raids anyway) since curse of osiris and the forum well, since discord became a thing. In my experience of course.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
State of the game is up. Here are some quotes (taken from reddit comments so dunno how accurate)

"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."

"Raid shouldn't be compared to incursion [in TD1]"

"Raid has to be organized, a lot of preparation, there are going to be roles."

"Matchmaking isn't a good solution for that."

"That said, it's an activity that could evolve in the future. We're happy to have conversation about it."

"When it comes to the initial launch, that (challenging, need a lot of preparation) is how we want the raid to be experienced."
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
State of the game is up. Here are some quotes (taken from reddit comments so dunno how accurate)

"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."

"Raid shouldn't be compared to incursion [in TD1]"

"Raid has to be organized, a lot of preparation, there are going to be roles."

"Matchmaking isn't a good solution for that."

"That said, it's an activity that could evolve in the future. We're happy to have conversation about it."

"When it comes to the initial launch, that (challenging, need a lot of preparation) is how we want the raid to be experienced."
Sounds about right to me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
NJ
"Gatekeeping"..."Elitism"...Give me a break.

Always the same bullshit counter arguments.

Y'all complain about how gamers are toxic and hostile in PvP every goddamn day here. Yet, somehow, you think it would be better in a challenging, time consuming, and sometimes stressful, cooperative activity. You're fooling yourselves. Yet you ignore the wisdom and advice from people who've played these types of games for YEARS. So unless these raids have brain dead mechanics, where you do nothing but shoot a boss until it's dead, playing with randoms will more than likely be horrendous. You will not want that.

Also, the differences between matchmaking and LFG have been explained ad nauseum. LFG will always be better and caters to every type of player. It's the optimal solution and needs to become standard in these games going forward.

There's no excuse for not putting in an easier mode with matchmaking so that everyone gets a chance to see the content
That requires extra work from the devs. Plus, who wants to play the "baby" version of the raid? It's not the same experience.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,898
State of the game is up. Here are some quotes (taken from reddit comments so dunno how accurate)

"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."

"Raid shouldn't be compared to incursion [in TD1]"

"Raid has to be organized, a lot of preparation, there are going to be roles."

"Matchmaking isn't a good solution for that."

"That said, it's an activity that could evolve in the future. We're happy to have conversation about it."

"When it comes to the initial launch, that (challenging, need a lot of preparation) is how we want the raid to be experienced."
Then they probably should have said from the beginning that there wasn't going to be matchmaking for the raid instead of, you know, putting out official documentation that says "every game mode/activity" will have matchmaking for every difficulty level.

No matter anyone's experience with raids up to this point in any other game, everyone was expecting matchmaking to be an option given what had previously been expressed to the player-base yet two days before the raid goes live they indirectly inform the player-base that matchmaking is not in (officially communicated only now...so just over one day before release).

That said, anyone who is interested should at least give the options outside of the game a chance to find a group to play with and experience this content.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,197
My problem is that in my experience its nigh impossible to schedule far enough in advance with LFG. Life is unpredictable and I cant commit to a 3 hour window thats days from now.

Matchmaking means when I do have a few hours I can queue up and dive in. I have yet to find a LFG solution for immediate activity
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
But people in this thread told me they were fine with matchmaking in TD1 and TD2 ??????
Well there never was a raid in TD1 and I personally never managed to beat a single incursion with matchmaking.
That's pure personal experience though and it was more towards the start of TD1 than towards the current state of it.

I personally would never, ever want to experience a raid in say Destiny or Division with randoms from matchmaking.
Way too many things randoms who don't care can do to fuck things up,especially towards the end and no way for you to hold anyone accountable cause they are not part of a community but just buzz in and out of groups.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
that fucking sucks. guess i'm not playing the raid.

all of the excuses suck. There's zero reason to not include it as an option. If you want a hill to die on then die on the "raid is too hard!" hill not the "can I please try it?" hill. or alternatively, just say "sorry, we didn't make this for you" and say it like 3 weeks ago so then right now at this moment I would not be 100% disappointed.

What a shit decision.

If you're thinking about quoting me to say how LFG is fine then save your time. What you like is not what I like. I'm glad you're getting your way, are you glad I'm gonna uninstall this game now right when the big update hits? because for me, it really fucking sucks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
So basically what I gathered from their SOTG is this.

1. They truly believe this content is complex enough that matchmaking is not a solution

2. They want to hear feedback on this matter AFTER people see the raid as they will be more informed if they think matchmaking will suffice.

3. They are open to changing their stance after feedback.

So just wait and see. I think it would be interesting for them to turn on matchmaking after a week or 2 as a test. They can probably pull data on how many matchmade teams make it how far and for how long they stay together.

I do understand the frustration in their poor communication about matchmaking prior to this. Things change in development but at least be upfront about it.

I guess to me, when I hear the word "Raid" it means communication REQUIRED. Not recommended. As in team A literally NEEDS to know what Team B is doing in order to progress.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,577
Having no matchmaking really sucks. The Division, up to this point, has not shown complexity beyond having random matchmaking. I don't see this raid being any different, I just see it being a really long mission with ridiculous bullet sponge bosses.

My group can get 6 people rounded up after we deal with everyone's availability. It's kinda bullshit a group of 6 will have to go find others via LFG in order to play this content. We figured there would be matchmaking and we'd be able to grab 1-2 people through it. Oh well.
 
Dec 4, 2018
124
If there was matchmaking I would happily fail over and over until eventual success.

Without it, based on my time with Destiny, I won't have time to even make the mechanics second nature. Instead I'll spend half an hour waiting and looking only for the group to disband after the first 4 failures.

The thing that gets me about this more than anything is that The Division 2 would be perfect for this. Sure, you'll have individual roles? Give a tutorial mission you can do solo explaining some of the systems and roles maybe? A lil trailer before starting so everyone is clear? Maybe you pick particular roles before you start and it'll determine your personal objectives or as part of squad? The game has such beautiful alternate reality HUD stuff - it'd be bloody perfect.

I was hoping it'd go down that route personally.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,567
FFXIV is a bad example because it would be nigh impossible to coordinate 24 people to tackle a high-end raid. There literally had to be matchmaking.
Also, I'm quite certain they're taking a wait-and-see approach and will happily add in random MM back if results dictate that.

I hate pulling this "calm down" card, but like...I'd tell you to calm down if this is causing you to freak out.
 
May 8, 2019
49
There's no excuse for not putting in an easier mode with matchmaking so that everyone gets a chance to see the content
Raids become legit easy when devs raise the power "limit" way above the one meant to be experienced, eventually. Which will happen down the line in Div 2.

FFXIV is the perfect example of "Matchmaking works."
As someone who did EU firsts back when matchmaking wasn't in (for Coils / Savage coils stuff still, pre alexander) while trying to pass Titan / Ifrit EX with randoms via MM : no it doesn't when the content is legit challenging.

Man people were so bad they couldn't even clear Titan HARD MODE for their relics. You'd get one good group every 5 hours at best, wiping all the time because of the same mistakes done by the same people is infinitely more frustrating than anything you can think of in any pvp game

What worked however was MM for 24 men content since they're fairly braindead. I'd be down for an easy raid mode if you don't get to loot anything tho, but even then that would be incredibly stupid for the world first clears since you could have one group running in the easy mode to get a sense of the tacts and give the info to the actual tryhard group trying to clear

I think the devs will wait and see the clearing rate over time and adjust accordingly which is the smart way. If you open matchmaking too soon it's a huge getaway for endless unhelpful feedback for the most part.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
1,317
State of the game is up. Here are some quotes (taken from reddit comments so dunno how accurate)

"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."

"Raid shouldn't be compared to incursion [in TD1]"

"Raid has to be organized, a lot of preparation, there are going to be roles."

"Matchmaking isn't a good solution for that."
And asking randoms in a safe house is a good solution I guess.

"Gatekeeping"..."Elitism"...Give me a break.

Always the same bullshit counter arguments.

Y'all complain about how gamers are toxic and hostile in PvP every goddamn day here. Yet, somehow, you think it would be better in a challenging, time consuming, and sometimes stressful, cooperative activity. You're fooling yourselves. Yet you ignore the wisdom and advice from people who've played these types of games for YEARS. So unless these raids have brain dead mechanics, where you do nothing but shoot a boss until it's dead, playing with randoms will more than likely be horrendous. You will not want that.
Oh thank you sensei, for giving us the fruits of your YEARS of experience. What other great wisdoms can you share with us here today? Thank you Muad'Dib, for granting us this gift of knowledge on how we can best play our games. Truly your blessing of knowledge are too great for us who are so unworthy.

Bless you. Bless you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
And asking randoms in a safe house is a good solution I guess.

Oh thank you sensei, for giving us the fruits of your YEARS of experience. What other great wisdoms can you share with us here today? Thank you Muad'Dib, for granting us this gift of knowledge on how we can best play our games. Truly your blessing of knowledge are too great for us who are so unworthy.

Bless you. Bless you.
Holy shit fucking SEETHING
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
NJ
FFXIV is a bad example because it would be nigh impossible to coordinate 24 people to tackle a high-end raid. There literally had to be matchmaking.
Also, I'm quite certain they're taking a wait-and-see approach and will happily add in random MM back if results dictate that.

I hate pulling this "calm down" card, but like...I'd tell you to calm down if this is causing you to freak out.
Plus, as I mentioned earlier when comparing Destiny to WoW, they're fundamentally and operatively totally different games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
FFXIV is a bad example because it would be nigh impossible to coordinate 24 people to tackle a high-end raid. There literally had to be matchmaking.
Also, I'm quite certain they're taking a wait-and-see approach and will happily add in random MM back if results dictate that.

I hate pulling this "calm down" card, but like...I'd tell you to calm down if this is causing you to freak out.
I don’t think it’s a matter of calming down, at least not for me... I’m not freaking out, I’m just very disappointed.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the vast majority of the players were excited for this update and the raid, especially after it got delayed.

I also don’t think it’s a stretch to say that without matchmaking the majority of those people excited for the raid won’t be playing it. (What do you think the percentage of people who are willing to coordinate outside of the game to get a group is? I’d guess 25% maybe if massive is lucky)

How do they not expect a bunch of disappointed players then? And if they do then why not do something to fix it?

Is their artistic vision for the fucking division (of all games) so strong that it’s worth it to them? Gtfo with that shit. No way. My guess is that the dev team is just as split on the decision as the player base is and I firmly believe the lead picked the wrong answer.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,663
State of the game is up. Here are some quotes (taken from reddit comments so dunno how accurate)

"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."

"Raid shouldn't be compared to incursion [in TD1]"

"Raid has to be organized, a lot of preparation, there are going to be roles."

"Matchmaking isn't a good solution for that."

"That said, it's an activity that could evolve in the future. We're happy to have conversation about it."

"When it comes to the initial launch, that (challenging, need a lot of preparation) is how we want the raid to be experienced."
We're done here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
I don’t think it’s a matter of calming down, at least not for me... I’m not freaking out, I’m just very disappointed.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the vast majority of the players were excited for this update and the raid, especially after it got delayed.

I also don’t think it’s a stretch to say that without matchmaking the majority of those people excited for the raid won’t be playing it. (What do you think the percentage of people who are willing to coordinate outside of the game to get a group is? I’d guess 25% maybe if massive is lucky)

How do they not expect a bunch of disappointed players then? And if they do then why not do something to fix it?

Is their artistic vision for the fucking division (of all games) so strong that it’s worth it to them? Gtfo with that shit. No way. My guess is that the dev team is just as split on the decision as the player base is and I firmly believe the lead picked the wrong answer.
It's not about their vision for the game. Its likely almost purely logistical. I'd bet money they have done internal tests where they saw if they can beat the game with people with no mics.

If they included matchmaking for the raid, if its as complex as they are describing, I'd also bet money the community reaction would be this.

"Wtf massive, I've done all the content in TD1 and TD2 either solo or matchmade, now you make this 8 player complicated mission and expect a solo player like me to beat it with randos!? I've tried for 4 hours today and we can't make it past this encounter! I don't have 7 other friends to play with and you are basically locking me out of content!!!""

"Massive please add in an easier difficulty this is BS I can never get people who communicate!"
 
"We decided to not include matchmaking because it will give worse gameplay experience when played with randoms."
when looking for others to play the raid and using a site or a PSN community/Xbox LFG these people you will find are also randoms...never got this "randoms suck!" sentiment, i´ve played raids from Lineage 2 to Destiny 2 with "randoms" and never had a problem with it. often these randoms became ingame friends.

matchmaking doesn´t have anything to do with playing with randoms...the statement makes no sense and is a slap to the face of people that played everything the game had to offer with randoms. they specifically said everything will be playable with matchmaking, now they did a 180 and for this activity you need to find people. it will lead to the thing that under 5% of all players will experience the raid at all.

frankly, they make it sound like the raid will be a tedious affair if this much planning is involved. i am sure no one wants WoW classic like throwbacks when trying to raid these days...but we will see how it will turn out. if the end of roosevelt island on challenging/heroic is anything to go by, it will feature some really annoying sections.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,041
NJ
And asking randoms in a safe house is a good solution I guess.



Oh thank you sensei, for giving us the fruits of your YEARS of experience. What other great wisdoms can you share with us here today? Thank you Muad'Dib, for granting us this gift of knowledge on how we can best play our games. Truly your blessing of knowledge are too great for us who are so unworthy.

Bless you. Bless you.
Just saying...Be careful what you wish for.

LFG is what you really want.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
It's not about their vision for the game. Its likely almost purely logistical. I'd bet money they have done internal tests where they saw if they can beat the game with people with no mics.

If they included matchmaking for the raid, if its as complex as they are describing, I'd also bet money the community reaction would be this.

"Wtf massive, I've done all the content in TD1 and TD2 either solo or matchmade, now you make this 8 player complicated mission and expect a solo player like me to beat it with randos!? I've tried for 4 hours today and we can't make it past this encounter! I don't have 7 other friends to play with and you are basically locking me out of content!!!""

"Massive please add in an easier difficulty this is BS I can never get people who communicate!"
This post but x 2000000
 
Dec 4, 2018
124
Another reason why matchmaking would work - you can play with 7 different people and if 4 of them are good you can leave together and matchmake the last 3 until you get 3 decent ones.

Will ingame LFG be coming along with this? How about a social hub with an LFG? Isn't that what the matchmaking terminal by the helicopter is?

I get what you guys are saying about how difficult it would be with matchmaking, but the lack of options is what really kills it for a lot of people IMO. Guided games *shudder*
 
Oct 25, 2017
697
Nope it's acceptable, Raids in these games should never have matchmaking. It's good the rest of the game has matchmaking but the raids are the one thing I am more than okay with not.

Yes you are overreacting.

Let me get this straight.
You're telling someone who now feel like they bought one thing but got another that they're overreacting and then telling them they should never have that thing that was advertised?
Huh.
 
Oct 27, 2017
89
Let me get this straight.
You're telling someone who now feel like they bought one thing but got another that they're overreacting and then telling them they should never have that thing that as advertised?
Huh.
Giving people options is bad, don't you know?

Let me tell you.. you don't want options.

Being sold something and changing it on the run is what you really want.

Stop being a drama queen.
 
We're talking about people like yourself who are on Era though, not the people we can't help.

We know it's a problem some form of MM doesn't exist in-game, but we have a great TD2 community on Era willing to help and the more people join the more people who join the more raids will run.

You don't need to LFG during your game time, you do it while you're casually posting on Era. Loads of players just like you book a time slot in advance with other players.
Most Era members are in the US or Europe and I live in a place with 9-10 hours difference with you people, making time coordination a pain in the arse so you saying 'just join the Era community' may not be a magical cure that you think it is, especially for people like me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
It's not about their vision for the game. Its likely almost purely logistical. I'd bet money they have done internal tests where they saw if they can beat the game with people with no mics.

If they included matchmaking for the raid, if its as complex as they are describing, I'd also bet money the community reaction would be this.

"Wtf massive, I've done all the content in TD1 and TD2 either solo or matchmade, now you make this 8 player complicated mission and expect a solo player like me to beat it with randos!? I've tried for 4 hours today and we can't make it past this encounter! I don't have 7 other friends to play with and you are basically locking me out of content!!!""

"Massive please add in an easier difficulty this is BS I can never get people who communicate!"
I agree. But I think that if they want to be stubborn then difficulty level is the place to be stubborn not the barrier to entry.

The response should be “Yea it’s hard in matchmaking, we designed it that way, you should team up using lfg systems”. But instead they’re saying “we designed this to be hard, if you don’t have time to use lfg or find it too inconvenient, we’re not even gonna let you try the raid”.

And I think that’s a bad decision that is ultimately worse for the game because there’s just gonna be a lot of people who would have played it that aren’t going to now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
697
This is like buying a cheeseburger with expensive beef and then being given two slices of bread and nothing else. Then being told we decided it was for the best if it didn't have meat after you ordered it, we think that's better for everybody. And then other people in the restaurant come up to you and say, you don't really want that meat after all, it would spoil the burger.

So here you sit, having eaten the bread and spent your money but still hungry. Maybe next time you'll order from a different restaurant and they'll serve what's advertised.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,687
Most Era members are in the US or Europe and I live in a place with 9-10 hours difference with you people, making time coordination a pain in the arse so you saying 'just join the Era community' may not be a magical cure that you think it is, especially for people like me.
Why are you trying to frame it like I was suggesting a magical cure? I'm trying to guide people toward a resource that might help them. There are many players like you in Era communities like Destiny, Division, etc... who use the OTs and Discord to find groups. So, while it might not always work out, it is a good option and one you should try before you give up on the raid entirely or even uninstall out of frustration.

That was my point, and it's a fair one.
 
Well, guess I'll be missing out on this raid, which I guess is nothing new since I don't do raids in other games that have them either. Div2 will remain on the back burner for me until they deliver more substantial content that everyone can enjoy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
NJ
No, I want matchmaking! Stop trying to gaslight me ha ha. You guys are hilarious.
"Gaslighting"

Seriously? That's cute.

Go ahead. Go matchmake with brain dead randoms and trash cans. Have fun and good luck.

Everyone who is against matchmaking here is suggesting a superior alternative, LFG. No one here is advocating exclusion or "gatekeeping". We want the best experience for EVERYONE.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
This is like buying a cheeseburger with expensive beef and then being given two slices of bread and nothing else. Then being told we decided it was for the best if it didn't have meat after you ordered it, we think that's better for everybody. And then other people in the restaurant come up to you and say, you don't really want that meat after all, it would spoil the burger.

So here you sit, having eaten the bread and spent your money but still hungry. Maybe next time you'll order from a different restaurant and they'll serve what's advertised.
I'm not really sure I agree with your comparison that a single raid mission in an open world game is the "meat" to its' burger.
It's more like the onions or the pickles.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,169
FFXIV is the perfect example of "Matchmaking works." There's no way Division 2 is more complicated than that. Destiny/2 had stupid obtuse puzzles.
FFXIV matchmakes you based on roles baked directly into the foundation of the class system, something The Division can't really do. End game specializations compliment skills and playstyles but are nothing like traditional tank/heal/dps.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
when looking for others to play the raid and using a site or a PSN community/Xbox LFG these people you will find are also randoms...never got this "randoms suck!" sentiment, i´ve played raids from Lineage 2 to Destiny 2 with "randoms" and never had a problem with it. often these randoms became ingame friends.

matchmaking doesn´t have anything to do with playing with randoms...the statement makes no sense and is a slap to the face of people that played everything the game had to offer with randoms. they specifically said everything will be playable with matchmaking, now they did a 180 and for this activity you need to find people. it will lead to the thing that under 5% of all players will experience the raid at all.

frankly, they make it sound like the raid will be a tedious affair if this much planning is involved. i am sure no one wants WoW classic like throwbacks when trying to raid these days...but we will see how it will turn out. if the end of roosevelt island on challenging/heroic is anything to go by, it will feature some really annoying sections.
I think I speak for everyone on #TeamNoMM when I say that our definitions of randos are different.

Matchmaking randoms are truly random. It can be, 90% of the time, someone with no mic just looking to see if they can power through the activity/get carried to rewards.

LFG randoms are random people you can pre screen before getting into the activity. It gives you more control. The big thing to screen here is the thing matchmaking gives you no filter for. Mics. Honestly, that is the MAIN difference between LFG and Matchmaking. Beyond that you can screen for quality but the communication is the main thing matchmade groups nearly all fail at.

This is like buying a cheeseburger with expensive beef and then being given two slices of bread and nothing else. Then being told we decided it was for the best if it didn't have meat after you ordered it, we think that's better for everybody. And then other people in the restaurant come up to you and say, you don't really want that meat after all, it would spoil the burger.

So here you sit, having eaten the bread and spent your money but still hungry. Maybe next time you'll order from a different restaurant and they'll serve what's advertised.
I mean if we are going for analogies...

Imagine you are trying to build an addition to your house. You want to hire some contracters. But luckily for you, and for your convenience, there is an app you can use that will assemble a team for you. You press it.

Your team is a mailman, a cop, a telemarketer who doesn't speak your language, and a 16 year old grocery store clerk.

I mean eventually you guys might figure out how to build this house, but its gonna take much longer than it should. You would be pretty confused why this app gave you unqualified people.

Your neighbor on the other hand made a listing that he wanted 2 carpenters, an electrician, a painter and a plumber. That is what he got. Might not be a good electrician, but at least its something you can work with.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
New York City
Nope it's acceptable, Raids in these games should never have matchmaking. It's good the rest of the game has matchmaking but the raids are the one thing I am more than okay with not.
It's fine if you are ok with it. If the rest of us had matchmaking we would all be ok with it because it wouldn't impact how you organize your raids and manage your play experience. Thats the beauty of choice. Right now, im expressing my choice to not accept it seeing as it's at odds with every other aspect of multiplayer in this game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
697
I'm not really sure I agree with your comparison that a single raid mission in an open world game is the "meat" to its' burger.
It's more like the onions or the pickles.
Every single ingredient is what some person is excited the most about if it's listed on the menu.


Imagine you are trying to build an addition to your house. You want to hire some contracters. But luckily for you, and for your convenience, there is an app you can use that will assemble a team for you. You press it.

Your team is a mailman, a cop, a telemarketer who doesn't speak your language, and a 16 year old grocery store clerk.

I mean eventually you guys might figure out how to build this house, but its gonna take much longer than it should. You would be pretty confused why this app gave you unqualified people.

Your neighbor on the other hand made a listing that he wanted 2 carpenters, an electrician, a painter and a plumber. That is what he got. Might not be a good electrician, but at least its something you can work with.

How about scenario 3. You pay for the app and then there's no option to assemble the team. Because that's what this is here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,770
US, California
Why do people in this thread keep insisting that the raid is nothing more than a stronghold with 8 players. Nothing from datamines or dev material suggests that.

It will have mechanics. How much communcation those require will remain to be seem but the devs have been championing that this is a "true" raid experience.

At the very least, if they have matchmaking on there needs to be an unskippable warning (at least until you clear it once) that this content requires a mic or text chat if you are on PC. That way instead of you having a 1% chance of finding a good crew you have maybe a 10% chance of finding good crew.
Why do people in this thread keep assuming it's going to be along the lines of Destiny in terms of needing communications, etc.? Absolutely nothing so far from the past game or what we've seen has indicated such. But that's a huge reason to some in here why MM is absolutely not a good idea. They're just assuming it'll be like that. Why? Based on what?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
Why do people in this thread keep assuming it's going to be along the lines of Destiny in terms of needing communications, etc.? Absolutely nothing so far from the past game or what we've seen has indicated such. But that's a huge reason to some in here why MM is absolutely not a good idea. They're just assuming it'll be like that. Why? Based on what?
Based on the devs saying not to expect the raid to be like incursions from TD1 and that it is unlike any content in TD2.
 
Oct 30, 2017
78
meh, i'm a bit disappointed for this, i play this with my gf and she doesn't want to hop on the mic with strangers and no MM means we aren't even trying this.

On another note, after having logged in today after not playing for a couple of weeks, with our shitty 7/7/3 build + patriot build we still completed the weeklies and ran 2 heroic missions for jokes. Not too bothered for not getting the gear sets that might turn out to be as uninteresting as the current ones...
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,749
Why do people in this thread keep assuming it's going to be along the lines of Destiny in terms of needing communications, etc.? Absolutely nothing so far from the past game or what we've seen has indicated such. But that's a huge reason to some in here why MM is absolutely not a good idea. They're just assuming it'll be like that. Why? Based on what?
Umm..

What the developer has said? Datamines too but what the dev has said for sure.

It's already confirmed that it require you to split your team of 8 up at times and people will be given "roles". Beyond that we know there are bespoke mechanics only in the raid, built for the raid. We also know they said it is much more complex than D1 Incursions which already had some light mechanics at play.

Where it falls on the spectrum of souped up Incursions vs. Destiny raids is yet to be seen. But in todays SOTG they said it is too complex to rely on completley random matchmaking. And that at least for the initial launch they want you to form a team prior to the activity because it requires organization that matchmaking can't provide.

After the initial launch they are willing to look at feedback and potentially add matchmaking if the people want it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,687
meh, i'm a bit disappointed for this, i play this with my gf and she doesn't want to hop on the mic with strangers and no MM means we aren't even trying this.

On another note, after having logged in today after not playing for a couple of weeks, with our shitty 7/7/3 build + patriot build we still completed the weeklies and ran 2 heroic missions for jokes. Not too bothered for not getting the gear sets that might turn out to be as uninteresting as the current ones...
What if you need the mic to call stuff out like in some of Destiny's raids?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,770
US, California
Based on the devs saying not to expect the raid to be like incursions from TD1 and that it is unlike any content in TD2.
Umm..

What the developer has said? Datamines too but what the dev has said for sure.

It's already confirmed that it require you to split your team of 8 up at times and people will be given "roles". Beyond that we know there are bespoke mechanics only in the raid, built for the raid. We also know they said it is much more complex than D1 Incursions which already had some light mechanics at play.

Where it falls on the spectrum of souped up Incursions vs. Destiny raids is yet to be seen. But in todays SOTG they said it is too complex to rely on completley random matchmaking. And that at least for the initial launch they want you to form a team prior to the activity because it requires organization that matchmaking can't provide.

After the initial launch they are willing to look at feedback and potentially add matchmaking if the people want it.
The conversation has been going on long before that SotG and I think you know that. But it was a good attempt. And that still doesn't talk to anything about needing comms for things like the puzzles that Destiny offered which people are using a defense of no MM, something we have no idea this game will have and honestly it's pretty ez to guess they won't as nothing has pointed to that kind of complexity.