I don't understand why raids never have matchmaking. It makes it such a pain in the ass.
You should of been prepared for a pained ass if you were planning on playing a match made raid to begin with.
I don't understand why raids never have matchmaking. It makes it such a pain in the ass.
My problem is that in my experience its nigh impossible to schedule far enough in advance with LFG. Life is unpredictable and I cant commit to a 3 hour window thats days from now.
Matchmaking means when I do have a few hours I can queue up and dive in. I have yet to find a LFG solution for immediate activity
Umm..
What the developer has said? Datamines too but what the dev has said for sure.
It's already confirmed that it require you to split your team of 8 up at times and people will be given "roles". Beyond that we know there are bespoke mechanics only in the raid, built for the raid. We also know they said it is much more complex than D1 Incursions which already had some light mechanics at play.
Where it falls on the spectrum of souped up Incursions vs. Destiny raids is yet to be seen. But in todays SOTG they said it is too complex to rely on completley random matchmaking. And that at least for the initial launch they want you to form a team prior to the activity because it requires organization that matchmaking can't provide.
After the initial launch they are willing to look at feedback and potentially add matchmaking if the people want it.
The devs have talked about what I wrote ever since the first raid was announced. I am not just going by today's SOTG.The conversation has been going on long before that SotG and I think you know that. But it was a good attempt. And that still doesn't talk to anything about needing comms for things like the puzzles that Destiny offered which people are using a defense of no MM, something we have no idea this game will have and honestly it's pretty ez to guess they won't as nothing has pointed to that kind of complexity.
I think I speak for everyone on #TeamNoMM when I say that our definitions of randos are different.
Matchmaking randoms are truly random. It can be, 90% of the time, someone with no mic just looking to see if they can power through the activity/get carried to rewards.
LFG randoms are random people you can pre screen before getting into the activity. It gives you more control. The big thing to screen here is the thing matchmaking gives you no filter for. Mics. Honestly, that is the MAIN difference between LFG and Matchmaking. Beyond that you can screen for quality but the communication is the main thing matchmade groups nearly all fail at.
Honestly this is a fair criticism to make.They also said there would be matchmaking for all activities previously so what are people supposed to believe?
The biggest problem here is their communication previously, now and in the next few days. Whether it should or should not have matchmaking is really not the issue to me and if they had been upfront about it I would have said oh well.
And see that's part of the frustration, for me at least. I was hoping to drop in when I have time tomorrow and just give it a go. I'm not down for waiting for 7 others to line up our schedule to run it and talk with people I dont know, Era or not. I'm in the Division discord but again, I'm not one to socialize on comms with others, just not my thing.The devs have talked about what I wrote ever since the first raid was announced. I am not just going by today's SOTG.
But I mean, all of this is folly anyway. Raid is out tomorrow and then we know. Everything right now is wasted breath/finger performance lol
There's an additional thing on top of all that.thx for the explanation, now i get what people mean with randoms. it is more about having control to filter beforehand instead of having people which maybe have no mics or not the gear needed for the activity.
both of those things could be filtered though, like "only look for people with mic and who know what to do". it is a delicate thing with raid matchmaking, i can honestly understand both sides, the one that just wants to jump in and pushing a button to raid and the ones that want to filter through people beforehand.
The idea of a true "random" is also someone who literally isn't part of a community/specific group/specific place. They are truly RANDOM and enter/leave a group in such a way that no one knows them and if they misbehave no one has any place or way of warning other people about them.thx for the explanation, now i get what people mean with randoms. it is more about having control to filter beforehand instead of having people which maybe have no mics or not the gear needed for the activity.
both of those things could be filtered though, like "only look for people with mic and who know what to do". it is a delicate thing with raid matchmaking, i can honestly understand both sides, the one that just wants to jump in and pushing a button to raid and the ones that want to filter through people beforehand.
How fun, having to leave the game to play with randoms which is just like playing via MM. People can make it sound like chatting with 7 other randoms in a LFG site or discord, etc. is much better but it's the same damn thing. You still have no clue if they're reliable or willing to play how you want until you're in the game and you don't know their build. People can still easily troll in those scenarios and will now even more so because it's the only way to get in. Gonna be an interesting next few days for sure.Matchmaking on raids is a complete mess and a terrible idea, unless you like to match with random people who can fuck it up the progress because they has 0 idea how to play.
For the solo players, there's a lot of groups on discord, facebook, reddit where you can find a clan or premade groups.
And see that's part of the frustration, for me at least. I was hoping to drop in when I have time tomorrow and just give it a go. I'm not down for waiting for 7 others to line up our schedule to run it and talk with people I dont know, Era or not. I'm in the Division discord but again, I'm not one to socialize on comms with others, just not my thing.
So at this point, it looks like I'm gonna have to wait and see how the raid is. I just hope it doesnt put me off entirely because I imagine it'll be old news once everyone is through it and might be hard to avoid the details of it here, reddit, and discord. Ah well, this just sucks all around.
Matchmaking on raids is a complete mess and a terrible idea, unless you like to match with random people who can fuck it up the progress because they has 0 idea how to play.
For the solo players, there's a lot of groups on discord, facebook, reddit where you can find a clan or premade groups.
As does SWTOR. And yes, people still play that... lolAs I said with Destiny, Final Fantasy XIV manages just fine with match made raids.
This seems like the same Destiny discussion.
There are more ways to do this that totally random matchmaking. And no, "go to reddit to try and find people" isn't a good solution for a lot of users. It's not an hard concept.
Sure, a simpler version with more guidance might be too much to ask (I don't think it is since there's way more work involved in creating the raid and with some tweaks and help you would cater to substantial more people but I might be wrong) but not even a LFG in-game? Nah, that's not good.
This seems like the same Destiny discussion.
There are more ways to do this that totally random matchmaking. And no, "go to reddit to try and find people" isn't a good solution for a lot of users. It's not an hard concept.
Sure, a simpler version with more guidance might be too much to ask (I don't think it is since there's way more work involved in creating the raid and with some tweaks and help you would cater to substantial more people but I might be wrong) but not even a LFG in-game? Nah, that's not good.
There are like 3 posts right above yours (one of them is mine) that explicitly detail why LFG with randoms and MM with randoms is not the "same damn thing". Please go through them, because they are legitimate points and have been proven to be true over the years.How fun, having to leave the game to play with randoms which is just like playing via MM. People can make it sound like chatting with 7 other randoms in a LFG site or discord, etc. is much better but it's the same damn thing. You still have no clue if they're reliable or willing to play how you want until you're in the game and you don't know their build. People can still easily troll in those scenarios and will now even more so because it's the only way to get in. Gonna be an interesting next few days for sure.
Yeah I read those before I commented. My comment was specifically directed at those. And I don't agree.There are like 3 posts right above yours (one of them is mine) that explicitly detail why LFG with randoms and MM with randoms is not the "same damn thing". Please go through them, because they are legitimate points and have been proven to be true over the years.
For those with busy schedules and limited gaming time, sites like 100.io and this very message board, are good places to set up parties/ fireteams in advance. You will find like minded players, who are dedicated and committed.
Well why so? Because it's something that's verifiable via experiences over the years in several games. I'm not trying to gate keep the discussion but how much experience do you have with games like these? Because I can't see how one can have played these sort of games so much and not agree to something that essentially comes down to human nature. It's impossible for people to treat others the same way if they never interacted with them before even in a minor form...that's human nature.Yeah I read those before I commented. My comment was specifically directed at those. And I don't agree.
I don't understand what you mean by this. If you weren't interested in playing that raid at the time, then why would you have MMed in the first place?If I were to play with a random via MM I'd straight up alt+F4 if I was disinterested in playing
exactlyLFR in WoW works fine. And tons of people still play the higher difficulties. There's no reason why other developers can't do it.
I get what you're saying, I do. I simply don't agree with the outcome as plainly as you do. I would agree in the one instance of us being in Era together and joining in that discord, sure. But, the thing is, that's not the option for everyone and Massive has done a disservice to those who need to use reddit or something like 100.io and just get grouped up with people they have no relationship with, unlike us here who like you said, I wouldn't just quit from.Well why so? Because it's something that's verifiable via experiences over the years in several games. I'm not trying to gate keep the discussion but how much experience do you have with games like these? Because I can't see how one can have played these sort of games so much and not agree to something that essentially comes down to human nature. It's impossible for people to treat others the same way if they never interacted with them before even in a minor form...that's human nature.
If I was to join you in a game right now and decide to do a stronghold then even if I was playing half heartedly I'd consider my about quitting because you'd be someone I interacted with, and even if I do quit I'd tell you that and at the very least finish the ongoing encounter in the stronghold before dropping out. If I were to play with a random via MM I'd straight up alt+F4 the moment I felt out of it.
Which further illustrates my point because this is exactly what I've been trying to say.I don't understand what you mean by this. If you weren't interested in playing that raid at the time, then why would you have MMed in the first place?
in WoW obviously I only queue in MM when I feel like doing a dungeon or raid. when I'm not in the mood for that then I do other content
I still dont understands how using LFG is any more of a commitment than putting yourself into MM. I really don't. Not trying to be argumentative, but it escapes me. The only thing I see a commitment to is speaking to someone I know or have talked with, at some length, in the recent past. Beyond that, everyone in my eyes is a 'random' regardless of where I'm talking to them and they might leave at any moment or be terrible, etc.Which further illustrates my point because this is exactly what I've been trying to say.
The level of commitment you get via matchmaking is different than it is via LFG. Plenty of times I'd start a game because I just feel like it then within 5-10 minutes my mood changes and I'm not in it, or I realise that I was never really in a mood to play this game so I alt+F4 and just go watch a TV instead. And because I don't interact with the people and because " they'll just get someone else match made to their team" I don't feel bad about it. You can't afford to have this kind of constant drop in and drop puts in raids.
You may not understand why, but this happens all the time ! It'd make up for a good percentage of time why people quite in games.
With LFG you can at the very least guarantee that everyone is on the same page commitment wise, you can never guarantee this with MM.
ok well I don't have that type of change in moods, at least not that quickly within 5-10 minutes. so I would have never thought of that being a possibilityWhich further illustrates my point because this is exactly what I've been trying to say.
The level of commitment you get via matchmaking is different than it is via LFG. Plenty of times I'd start a game because I just feel like it then within 5-10 minutes my mood changes and I'm not in it, or I realise that I was never really in a mood to play this game so I alt+F4 and just go watch a TV instead. And because I don't interact with the people and because " they'll just get someone else match made to their team" I don't feel bad about it. You can't afford to have this kind of constant drop in and drop puts in raids.
You may not understand why, but this happens all the time ! It'd make up for a good percentage of time why people quite in games.
With LFG you can at the very least guarantee that everyone is on the same page commitment wise, you can never guarantee this with MM.
No one is "anti MM" just pro in game LFG.
MM for raids is a poor compromise
Imagine comparing WoW to Division...
Trying to find people in here is not easy. Especially across platforms.
I've used LFG on Xbox find people to do a Nightfall in Destiny and it's just friction to play the game.
Also, how is "having to go to a message board to find people" acceptable in 2019?
Minimum is having LFG in the game. Division, Destiny or otherwise.
plenty of posters have made that comparison, not just here but in other threads and elsewhere. because it's a valid comparison. it's not like Division has some sort of super special gameplay that would prevent itNo one is "anti MM" just pro in game LFG.
MM for raids is a poor compromise
Imagine comparing WoW to Division...
I've been preaching the inclusion of in game LFG since Destiny has been out. It fuckin better be in Destiny 3.
he does use it. we all do. or we use our clans/friends.
he does use it. we all do. or we use our clans/friends.
that doesn't mean we don't want LFG to be inside the game.
I laughed but honestly it's a valid point alluding to the earlier discussion about commitment. I just don't see the difference. Having LFG in the game in my mind simply is no different on the quality of the player on the other end. Anyone who queues for something via MM is intending to do said content and isn't going to just drop any faster than if they were in LFG. I know others clearly disagree, but that's my take based on my experience with other games.but just not matchmaking though right? because who cares about anybody that would use that feature.
i don't care if it is in or not in, honestly.but just not matchmaking though right? because who cares about anybody that would use that feature.
They're not mutually exclusive. If matchmaking was in for the raid would any of the pro-LFG players in this thread have to use it? As it is now, a vast majority of players simply won't be playing the raid. That sucks.
Oh man it is night and day.I laughed but honestly it's a valid point alluding to the earlier discussion about commitment. I just don't see the difference. Having LFG in the game in my mind simply is no different on the quality of the player on the other end. Anyone who queues for something via MM is intending to do said content and isn't going to just drop any faster than if they were in LFG. I know others clearly disagree, but that's my take based on my experience with other games.
Tomorrow when the raid goes live it will be
So much truth here.i don't care if it is in or not in, honestly.
I know the outrage would just be in another package.
instead of "omg you want me to find 7 other people??? fuck you give me matchmaking!" it would be "matchmaking fucking sucks, i've been trying to beat this raid for 2 weeks and no group ever gets past the second boss. fix your fucking matchmaking massive! give us proper LFG!"
The devs have said they are open to evaluating matchmaking for the raid in the future, so that's something.
I personally just see it the way it always goes with this, like it did in Destiny:
Huge outrage, many posts about it, etc...
then the raid comes out and the people who care enough about playing it will play it
then the outrage will become less and less as time goes on and people just don't care
in the end the people who want to do the raid will still be doing the raid
whether that's 5%, 10% or 20% of the community (i don't know how it is for destiny), the raid will be done, every week by someone and life moves on.