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FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
With the recent resurgence of the Division following an excellent patch it made me wonder what would be the correct way forward with the IP. The game is in a pretty great place now, delivering on the promises it initially made. Now what would be a good way for Ubi and Massive to capitalise on their hard work getting the game to that level?

1. Chase the 2


The obvious option. Announce a sequel that requires current players to leave behind their characters and start fresh. Presents a good jumping on point for newer players. The question then becomes how much (and what) do you change for existing players that warrants them leaving behind their characters and hours they invested? Would it be a radical departure such as Guild Wars > Guild Wars 2 asking players to learn a ton of new mechanics or a more conservative approach such as Destiny 2 where a veteran player would feel right at home in terms of mechanics?

2. The vertical expansion

(example: Diablo RoS)

A big paid (traditional) expansion that adds new content, raises the level cap requiring players to leave behind their gear and progress from the old game to level up once again. The foundation of the game remains the same, though new activities and challenges are added. For new players this could be seen as daunting, though Massive could allow players to skip parts of the old levelling process in favour of a single use character boost with a special tutorial zone easing them into the game.

3. The horizontal expansion

(example: Guild Wars Nightfall)

An expansion that allows new players a jumping on point giving them a complete levelling experience but doesn't necessarily ask the older players to progress through a levelling process again. Instead it exists next to the existing game, adding a new area to explore complete with a full campaign that can be played through. Progression would come in the form of new specialisations/classes that allow for new builds to be explored, new weapon types and new challenges to overcome at the endgame. New players could forego the entire original game and start in this one and still have a satisfying experience, though they will not have access to the area of the original and perhaps certain skills.

What do you think, are there other options they could seemingly use, just keep expanding the game through patches as they are doing now for example?

And in general what would you prefer for these types of games?
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,967
I'd prefer it if they'd drop The Division altogether and focus their efforts on something with a sci-fi or fantasy setting. They're talented developers. The modern realistic setting isn't enjoyable for the loot-based shooter because it boils down to all the enemies being thugs in hoodies and all the gear you acquire being different colored beanies and hoodies.
 
OP
OP
FeD

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
I'd prefer it if they'd drop The Division altogether and focus their efforts on something with a sci-fi or fantasy setting. They're talented developers. The modern realistic setting isn't enjoyable for the loot-based shooter because it boils down to all the enemies being thugs in hoodies and all the gear you acquire being different colored beanies and hoodies.

Well they are developing an Avatar game iirc.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,277
I'd like them to do something resembling that Japanese cyberpunk artwork that was posted here thinking it would be a new Ubisoft game. There seems to be a disconnect between shooting someone in the head and them still standing... But I think this would mitigate it somewhat.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Eo4g0

The Division could be salvaged but people definitely take issue with the game taking place in the real world and the bullet sponge enemies which by loot shooter genre standards can't be removed.
 

Deleted member 14002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,121
Horizontal Expansion should be the norm for GAAS IMO.

Give players a chance to experience the content in a new way without dividing up the user base.

Once every couple of releases do a vertical expansion. Ideally every 1 out of every 3 expansions.

Do a "2" if there's problems with the development pipeline or if you genuinely have something that needs to be changed at a core level.

When possible reward the initial players for migrating (give them a selectable boon/feat or the option of an expansion character to start) and then try to add as much of the old content as a post game bonus or as content updates throughout lifecycle. Do a remix of areas when possible via enemy placement or slight visual changes.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2, 2018
2,029
I think the best thing for them will be using the momentum The Division is having at the moment and sort of 're-launch' it with a new,meaty expansion. Doing a Division 2 will probably take the user base back.
 
Oct 30, 2017
125
Hopefully not a new game in the same vein "division 2"
Horizontal move or something new.
Complaining about the setting is stupid, I'd rather play real world than some throw away sci-fi story
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
I think a sequel would be a good idea. It wasn't really presented like a GaS game so I doubt many consumers will see it like one, and thus, it's not the type of thing that many are likely to pick up several years down the line.

I also think a lot of players were soured by much of the experience and a fresh start provides a chance to grow a new audience, which the game needs.
 

Deleted member 7450

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
Complaining about the setting is stupid, I'd rather play real world than some throw away sci-fi story
ExemplaryQuarterlyBison-max-1mb.gif
 

MadHUN74

Member
Oct 28, 2017
34
ATL
either a horizontal or vertical expansion would be preferable to me... i'd rather not abandon all the progress i've made and the junk i've collected
 

Tebunker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,844
The problem I had is how many headshots does it take to kill some of the people. Scifi you believe is suspended in real life its like this daft.
It takes one Headshot with the right gun, but I understand your point.

The problem isn't the setting, the problem is people conflating a 3rd person co-op rpg loot game that uses guns with a 3rd person co-op shooter like Wildlands. People were expecting The Division to play like Wildlands. They did a bad job at managing thise expectations. Also it is a reason a lot of other devs who make these types of games stick with more traditional fantasy roots. They avoid these pitfalls.

Having bullet sponges in Destiny/Destiny 2 wasn't anymore satisfying because it was sci fi.

I honestly really like where the Division is atm. It is a satisfying game. I think either a vertical or horizontal push would be smart. They don't need a sequel to complete the story they started and they should work on more refinements and adding new game modes and end game. Give me a 10 hour story expansion that closes the current story out and I am there.
 

Justified

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,022
Atlanta
The problem I had is how many headshots does it take to kill some of the people. Scifi you believe is suspended in real life its like this daft.

I always looked at the Division not as a shooter, but as an Action RPG with guns. It takes more shots because you are dwindling HP down. Its like asking how many lightening strikes or fireballs it takes to kill someone in any other RPG
 

bossmonkey

Avenger
Nov 9, 2017
2,504
It takes one Headshot with the right gun, but I understand your point.

The problem isn't the setting, the problem is people conflating a 3rd person co-op rpg loot game that uses guns with a 3rd person co-op shooter like Wildlands. People were expecting The Division to play like Wildlands. They did a bad job at managing thise expectations. Also it is a reason a lot of other devs who make these types of games stick with more traditional fantasy roots. They avoid these pitfalls.

Having bullet sponges in Destiny/Destiny 2 wasn't anymore satisfying because it was sci fi.

I honestly really like where the Division is atm. It is a satisfying game. I think either a vertical or horizontal push would be smart. They don't need a sequel to complete the story they started and they should work on more refinements and adding new game modes and end game. Give me a 10 hour story expansion that closes the current story out and I am there.

Wait how did people think that The Division would play like Wildlands? They came out something like a year apart and The Division came out first.
 

Solid Shake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,255
I think for the franchise as a whole it would be great for it to get a huge expansion.

However that won't happen and we'll end up with a sequel, which could also be a good thing since the setting is pretty one note. Snow. Nothing else.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Wait how did people think that The Division would play like Wildlands? They came out something like a year apart and The Division came out first.
What he means is that people were expecting The Division to play like a 3rd person tactical cover shooter, not a MMORPG with shootbang combat.
I agree with that assumption; part of what makes The Division "not work" on a large scale is that human enemies in a realistic setting are assumed to have human properties (e.g. they're not bullet sponges). When you break that convention, things feel off.
 

lawtowler

Member
Oct 30, 2017
69
I think we'll get a sequel and I'm happy about that.

I keep trying to get back in to The Division, I haven't played properly since vanilla/launch and it's so overwhelming. Decided to start a new character to break myself in easily to all the new aspects but as a solo player I got bored of the new player grind again.

Sequel would be the perfect opportunity to start fresh and use all of the progress made over the last year or so to make a superb game this time around from the beginning.
 

bossmonkey

Avenger
Nov 9, 2017
2,504
What he means is that people were expecting The Division to play like a 3rd person tactical cover shooter, not a MMORPG with shootbang combat.
I agree with that assumption; part of what makes The Division "not work" on a large scale is that human enemies in a realistic setting are assumed to have human properties (e.g. they're not bullet sponges). When you break that convention, things feel off.

Honestly, I bought into that just fine, the problem for me was the dark zone. As I understand it they've fixed some of it but when I played at launch they would stick you in there with massively more powerful teams. If you weren't one of the people that played the game constantly you were stuck playing against people that would one shot you. It made it impossible to get out of there with any gear at all. I just lost interest at that point.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
IMO they are watching & learning (and benefitting) from all of Destiny m(istakes)oves. They will probably continue to support it with huge patches. That increase gameplay functionality. & only when it's time will they move on to the next. The sequel will if their smart reward the progress of original players, or if they want to go with a new area/story then it makes sense to use new characters as you aren't in the same place. Unlike destiny 2 which used a stupid story reason to wipe character progress when they clearly weren't ready to release something that could be called a real sequel.

Honestly, I bought into that just fine, the problem for me was the dark zone. As I understand it they've fixed some of it but when I played at launch they would stick you in there with massively more powerful teams. If you weren't one of the people that played the game constantly you were stuck playing against people that would one shot you. It made it impossible to get out of there with any gear at all. I just lost interest at that point.
They've pretty much fixed this by adding "world tiers" which only populates your server with players & enemies leveled like you
 

Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,760
I think they sorta solve the enemy thing by having the actual enemy health be very low, but instead having them covered in body armor. More believable than huge amounts of health, even though it's practically the same.