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The Dragon Prince |OT| The Last Frameratebender (S3 live now)

Nov 3, 2017
2,223
Feel like there making a purposeful parallel between Callum and Ezran---->Viren and King Harrow. Callum seems like he might be on the fast track down the moral ladder. Or at least is the type of person to do so when pushed to that point because in his mind at least he's doing the right thing even if it means doing something like using dark magic. It especially doesn't help that the person who's his childhood crush is also kinda hella into dark magic.
That was my feeling back in season 1, but I’m a lot less sure if that’s the intent post season 2.

All of Callum’s shitty traits have either been ignored, or actively rewarded by the narrative. Sure, it could be the writers playing the long game, but it seems equally likely to me they are just blind to the fact that Callum is actually a pretty shit guy.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,689
That was my feeling back in season 1, but I’m a lot less sure if that’s the intent post season 2.

All of Callum’s shitty traits have either been ignored, or actively rewarded by the narrative. Sure, it could be the writers playing the long game, but it seems equally likely to me they are just blind to the fact that Callum is actually a pretty shit guy.
Remains to be seen how full of himself he gets with his newfound power. Especially considering how the season ends.
 

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,688
Callum's going to be the Avatar equivalent and fight Viren/Aavaros hybrid

Not really sure where else they can go
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,342
Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
youre right
 

grmltr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,481
The writers have to be aware about spoiled brat Callum. If it ends up as him being the chosen one avatar that would be the worst.
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
The writers have to be aware about spoiled brat Callum. If it ends up as him being the chosen one avatar that would be the worst.
I genuinely don’t think they do. The way the narrative is structured and the way scenes are directed suggest to me he’s fully intended to be sympathetic and that we’re meant to empathise with his entitlement
 

entremet

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
16,019
Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
disagree. Callum is great. He lost a lot, friends, family, and so on. Remains resolute and self sacrificing. Remember the primal stone he gave up? He's also magnanimous and doesn't hold anything against Team Rocket redux lol.

He also lets Ezran be his own person. He's not on top of him like a stereotypical big brother. He let's Ezran leave and accepts it.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
You know, aside from Callum the Brat, this show is really good. Great worldbuilding and interesting characters overall.

Claudia, General Amaya, Bait, and Ezran are all really fun, but Claudia is prolly my favorite.

Edit: I don't even mind Callum, but I do keep wishing his overwhelming desire to be awesome and magical weren't his primary focus.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,486
Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
F that I'd be whining if I was Callum too.

Fuck the stuck up non humans who were born with magic. Kudos to my boy Cally for breakin thru 👌👌👌

Edit: I don't even mind Callum, but I do keep wishing his overwhelming desire to be awesome and magical weren't his primary focus.
LET 👏 THE MAN 👏 FIND 👏 HIMSELF
 
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Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
You summed up all of my problems with the character. I don't particularly enjoy this show, and Callum is a huge part of it. He's such a brat and his obsession with magic really brought down the season for me. I didn't like Soren at all, but seeing him accept his paralysis with dignity was very endearing and even respectable. I'm all for trying your hardest to get results, but there are somethings in life you can't change and seeing characters come to grips with those realities is far more interesting than watching someone whine until they get their way.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,486
You summed up all of my problems with the character. I don't particularly enjoy this show, and Callum is a huge part of it. He's such a brat and his obsession with magic really brought down the season for me. I didn't like Soren at all, but seeing him accept his paralysis with dignity was very endearing and even respectable. I'm all for trying your hardest to get results, but there are somethings in life you can't change and seeing characters come to grips with those realities is far more interesting than watching someone whine until they get their way.
Smh yall are some elf ass niggas
 

Flow

Community Resettler
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,579
Florida, USA
so I reviewed this earlier in the month and loved the character progression. what are everyone's thoughts on this?
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
I'm all for trying your hardest to get results, but there are somethings in life you can't change and seeing characters come to grips with those realities is far more interesting than watching someone whine until they get their way.
And he doesn’t even have to work hard for it! This is the magic getting process as per Callum:

1) feel sorry for yourself
2) engage in stupid and self destructive acts
3) get magic by having a dream epiphany

While I didn’t want him to get magic, even the way he got magic sucks and could have been done so much better.

This is a paradigm shifting event; humans’ inability to use magic has shaped the geopolitics of the continent, and its entirely upended with barely any build up.

So what we’re left with is a brat who gets rewarded for being a brat, and all the human scholars and magicians looking like idiots.

Like the way Callum’s entire character was handled felt like such a pivot from season one. I’m not suggesting they were influenced by executive decisions or whatever, but as a viewer, that’s what it felt like

so I reviewed this earlier in the month and loved the character progression. what are everyone's thoughts on this?
Claudia was the standout, and Soren was pretty good.

Really like Ezren’s arc in theory, but he was a nonentity for the first 7 episodes before having kinda sudden character growth.

Rayla was good for the whole five minutes of screen time she had this season, and it looks like they’ll be planting seeds for ways to take her character in future. Her almost blurting our she loves Callum is stupid, especially since they’ve known each other for like a week, but only really plays into how Callum-centric the universe of Season 2 is, which remains the chief problem with the show.

I’m undecided on Evil Dad. Depending on how they write his motivations in future, he could be either a really compelling character or a cartoon villain

Callum, like all trash, belongs in a dumpster
 
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shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,688
It doesn't feel earned at all.
idk maybe it's supposed to be some kind of lesson for kids to join STEM so they can cure cancer or something
 

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,748
I didn't like Soren at all, but seeing him accept his paralysis with dignity was very endearing and even respectable.
I wouldnt claim he accepted.

He was reliefed that he cant fulfill his fathers mission without disappointing him (he fought against a dragon and survived). It was more of resignation than acceptance, that‘s another thing: I wanted to see him dealing with that new challenge, to see how he deals with it.

We barely saw him entering first stage of acceptance before Claudia intertwined.

The solution itself is one aspect, the other is that Claudia found way too fast a way to cure him.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,712
The pacing of this show is fucking awful. I legit finished the last episode of the season and was like, "I'm going to get some dinner before finishing off the rest of the season." I come back after ordering a Quesadilla only to learn that the last episode I watched was the season finale. Like, WTF? So much pointless meandering in the show where character arcs and events that show take about 1-2 episodes are padded out to 4-5 episodes. Why?!?!?!?!
Yeah, it’s almost as if the creators had this tight story treatment that only needed a 26 episode season or less, but Netflix asked for it to be stretched as much as possible. So they’re in the moon sanctuary for 3 episodes without much happening.

Still, I’m enjoying season 2 more than 1, even if it feels limited by the pacing.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,262
Oh yeah so I was reading up and in the lore that while lifespans vary by race, Elves generally live as long as humans. There is no naturally immortal elves.
 

ameleco

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
444
Finally watched this and I can say I liked it more than S1, but tend to agree that it is still way too slow. Oh and I actually do like Callum. I don't think it is a big deal that he can use magic by himself. I mean, he could do it before too. It's just that he needed a primal stone on him.
 

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,688
Finally watched this and I can say I liked it more than S1, but tend to agree that it is still way too slow. Oh and I actually do like Callum. I don't think it is a big deal that he can use magic by himself. I mean, he could do it before too. It's just that he needed a primal stone on him.
It's just goofy that people who have been training to do magic all their lives can't do magic without a primal stone
And he just figures it out in a day.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,287
Tokyo
Finally watched this and I can say I liked it more than S1, but tend to agree that it is still way too slow. Oh and I actually do like Callum. I don't think it is a big deal that he can use magic by himself. I mean, he could do it before too. It's just that he needed a primal stone on him.
Something tells me he will eventually be able to use all the kinds of magic. Aavarous used multiple different kinds in that one fight.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
839
Callum sucks.

I had assumed that the point of S1's ending was that he wasn't going to get to be "special" but actually he's the most special.
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
Something tells me he will eventually be able to use all the kinds of magic. Aavarous used multiple different kinds in that one fight.
The darkest timeline

disagree. Callum is great. He lost a lot, friends, family, and so on. Remains resolute and self sacrificing. Remember the primal stone he gave up? He's also magnanimous and doesn't hold anything against Team Rocket redux lol.

He also lets Ezran be his own person. He's not on top of him like a stereotypical big brother. He let's Ezran leave and accepts it.
He’s not though. He’s resolute and self sacrificing in the way his father was; obsessed with his own nobility and moral virtue, arrogantly assuming he is entitled to take charge of every moral problem that comes before him.

The problem is that the narrative was aware of Harrow’s shortcomings, but seemingly blind to the fact that Callum is very much his father’s son. Advisors like Sarai and Evil Dad regularly call out Harrow on his bullshit, and second guess his decisions that sound noble on face value, but are selfish in actuality. Even Harrow himself came to terms with this, at least somewhat, in his final hours.

Callum’s selfishness is unaddressed and treated by the writing to be virtuous and has always been rewarded. Yes, Callum shows care and concern for others, but always in a way that pivots himself and his feelings back to the center of attention.

The writers could be playing a long game here, but unlike season 1, this season shows no awareness of Callum’s weakness of character.

I will agree he is a good brother to Ezren though. He’s not a complete shitstain
 
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Jexhius

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
839
Speaking of the core heroes, I like where Ezren ended up this season but it felt like his entire arc happened in 3 minutes. As a result, his progression feels unearned even if I think its good for his character.

Rayla had nothing to do and her character went nowhere.

I don't think the team quite knows how to write a 9 episode-arc to be satisfying in terms of both plot and character. I'm not saying that it's an easy task, but they still have a way to go. This season felt dragged down by an extremely long flashback followed by a lengthy dream sequence which both robbed precious screentime from what the rest of the cast were doing in the present.
 

Smoolio

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
610
Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Totally agree, he feels so out of place and i'm afraid he is going to get everything, he is like a generic player character and will even get his choice of romances by the end. Best thing this show could do with him would be to kill him off.
 

ameleco

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
444
It's just goofy that people who have been training to do magic all their lives can't do magic without a primal stone
And he just figures it out in a day.
Yeah, that is a bit weird, but its possible we will get introduced to others later on that can do it as well and they've just been guarding that knowledge.

Something tells me he will eventually be able to use all the kinds of magic. Aavarous used multiple different kinds in that one fight.
It would definitely be cool if he could do it, and as shira said could lead to an avatar fight between the two. That said, as cool as it would be, I think it's too much of a retread so I hope that the plot does not follow that route.
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
Totally agree, he feels so out of place and i'm afraid he is going to get everything, he is like a generic player character and will even get his choice of romances by the end. Best thing this show could do with him would be to kill him off.
Oh my god, you’re right. Motherfucker is a fucking BioWare protagonist
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
839
"most special?" How is he more special than a young King that can talk to animals?
Nothing in the series has provded any context for Ezran's ability. It's safe to assume it's rare, but we don't know much beyond that, such as who else has displayed such power and when.

We do have clear context for Callum. The inability of huamns to perform primal magic is at the core of the geopolitical landscape of the series, a fact that defined history until now. Callum shatters this established reality over the course of the afternoon with the aid of a vision-dream and his sense of entitlement.
 

Monster Zero

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,754
Southern California
Nothing in the series has provded any context for Ezran's ability. It's safe to assume it's rare, but we don't know much beyond that, such as who else has displayed such power and when.

We do have clear context for Callum. The inability of huamns to perform primal magic is at the core of the geopolitical landscape of the series, a fact that defined history until now. Callum shatters this established reality over the course of the afternoon with the aid of a vision-dream and his sense of entitlement.
That's why I think it has more to do with lineage and less to do with talent.