The Dragon Prince |OT| The Last Frameratebender (S3 live now)

gryvan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
371
I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree with the callum haters.

I think callum is fine where he is. I don't think he acts too bratty but at the same time, he wanted to do something meaningful and the fact that he probably came from the commoners class kinda probably pushed more towards the "I need to be useful to help everyone!" motive.

My perspective on Callum being the first human primal user is that the primal connection has always been there for everyone including humans. The downside is that humans aren't borned with it so they have to reach out deeper to understand and use their magical forces. I don't think Callum is a 'chosen one' per say compared to TLA. Hes more like an average human who starts to learn and make connections with the primal forces of the world the hard way instead of a) being borned with it or b) choosing the dark magic way because it uses other life forces to make something happen in an easier way. He created and opted for a 3rd option instead which in this world, everyone believes is impossible for a human to do.

But this is just random theorycrafting. We'll get to know more in the future shows!
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,553
Finished the whole season and liked it much more than the first season. Less worldbuilding and introduction, more plot and characterization. Do agree that it feels more like a season 1.5 that compliments the last one. If there's one thing I didn't like about this season, it's about how poorly they used Rayla.

On the Callum thing, I don't have as hard a take. They did bring this character arc to a resolution with an acceptance of his entitlement and inability in the island storm episode. But I did find this whole thing to be one of the issues I had with the structure of the story and worldbuilding, because it wasn't an episode or two later that this all gets turn on its head, and he becomes the super special first human ever to be able to wield primal magic.

I'd probably be more accepting of this whole plotline if it's been established before that a rare few humans did manage to tap into primal magic, because then it wouldn't seem so derivative of a generic hero characterization, or seemed to have fed into his entitlement.
 
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grmltr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Some spoiler moral quandaries:

Was Soren in the right to fire a shot at the dragon threatening the city?

Was Callum in the right to do what he did to free the dragon?
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,574
Some spoiler moral quandaries:

Was Soren in the right to fire a shot at the dragon threatening the city?

Was Callum in the right to do what he did to free the dragon?
Hmmm... I was more caught up with it being a probably stupid decision. Though they did take it out in the end so maybe not that stupid. Well took it out until Callum rescued it anyway.

I guess it wouldn't be morally wrong for Soren to do what he did, but not morally wrong for Callum to do what he did either... Idk man, grays.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,254
I'm just gonna have to agree to disagree with the callum haters.

I think callum is fine where he is. I don't think he acts too bratty but at the same time, he wanted to do something meaningful and the fact that he probably came from the commoners class kinda probably pushed more towards the "I need to be useful to help everyone!" motive.

My perspective on Callum being the first human primal user is that the primal connection has always been there for everyone including humans. The downside is that humans aren't borned with it so they have to reach out deeper to understand and use their magical forces. I don't think Callum is a 'chosen one' per say compared to TLA. Hes more like an average human who starts to learn and make connections with the primal forces of the world the hard way instead of a) being borned with it or b) choosing the dark magic way because it uses other life forces to make something happen in an easier way. He created and opted for a 3rd option instead which in this world, everyone believes is impossible for a human to do.

But this is just random theorycrafting. We'll get to know more in the future shows!
You have to remember that this isn't an invention or a theory Callum has created, it's an ability that every human presumably has but somehow no one else has ever discovered; furthermore, it's an ability that lies at the crux of the human conflict in this world. For an average kid like that to make this discovery in an afternoon after some random fever dream is incredibly lame and hackneyed.

For an example of this idea being done right, look at metalbending in avatar. Every earthbender can do it, but Toph was the first to discover it because she was an individual with a unique perspective that no one before her had. Her earthsight and her years of earthbending experience led her to discovery of metalbending. Callum had none of that build up.

Now there could be a twist coming in the future, but I'm not really holding my breath.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,843
Tokyo
We know nothing of Callum's biological father, i am thinking that may play a role later considering his crazy dream with the cube and talking about his destiny. Plus the cube was purposely left to him and it was from a person who could use all forms of magic.
 

Monster Zero

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
4,931
Southern California
Why lineage? They have established you need a connection and that connection is an understanding. Magical creatures are born with this innate understanding, that doesn't mean you can't learn it.
Because the king mentioning Callum's father yet Callum never mentioning him or him being shown is very suspect. The fact they are the kingdom closest to the border. It's also suspect that the king gave him a magical gift with a proposition that he be the one to unlock its mystery even though from what we been shown Callum was provided no training in magic growing up. All this on top of the fact that he has a half brother with telepathic abilities. It should be clear from this point that Callum and Ezrans feats and abilities aren't just random occurrences or overachieving where previous human mages failed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
Because the king mentioning Callum's father yet Callum never mentioning him or him being shown is very suspect. The fact they are the kingdom closest to the border. It's also suspect that the king gave him a magical gift with a proposition that he be the one to unlock its mystery even though from what we been shown Callum was provided no training in magic growing up. All this on top of the fact that he has a half brother with telepathic abilities. It should be clear from this point that Callum and Ezrans feats and abilities aren't just random occurrences or overachieving where previous human mages failed.
What did you expect? The main characters to be some weaklings or without power? The way primal connections are explained is that magical creatures are born with an understanding so they are connected. Humans are not, but they can connect. It could be a grand "son of Aaravos" or whatever theory, but it could also be he got lucky and became the first human to connect.
 

Monster Zero

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
4,931
Southern California
What did you expect? The main characters to be some weaklings or without power? The way primal connections are explained is that magical creatures are born with an understanding so they are connected. Humans are not, but they can connect. It could be a grand "son of Aaravos" or whatever theory, but it could also be he got lucky and became the first human to connect.
With a little brother born with psychic powers your grandson of aaravos theory makes the most sense.
 

gryvan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
371
You have to remember that this isn't an invention or a theory Callum has created, it's an ability that every human presumably has but somehow no one else has ever discovered; furthermore, it's an ability that lies at the crux of the human conflict in this world. For an average kid like that to make this discovery in an afternoon after some random fever dream is incredibly lame and hackneyed.

For an example of this idea being done right, look at metalbending in avatar. Every earthbender can do it, but Toph was the first to discover it because she was an individual with a unique perspective that no one before her had. Her earthsight and her years of earthbending experience led her to discovery of metalbending. Callum had none of that build up.

Now there could be a twist coming in the future, but I'm not really holding my breath.
Technically it could be months from when they started off at the lodge to where Callum understood how the Sky Primal works so you can't really state he made such a discovery in an afternoon. (Probably be more fleshed out in a book in the future of their travels)

I think we should just wait and see the future episodes to let it flesh out.

For the metalbending reference, I agree the ideas well done but what I think made it great for me is the fact that toph was in a conflict of trying to escape in a metal ship where theres processed earth that can't be used by earthbenders, so she had to think up something to get out of this conflict and turn the table around and metalbending was found.

Same with the bloodbending woman(who I forgot her name), she was a prisoner of the fire nation and she was desperate to escape from them which again shows that conflict that caused the character to create a new and different concept of waterbending.

As for Callum, when he used dark magic for the first time to save someone, he got poisoned. He started having dreams/hallucinations(?) about himself and Callum's other self that wants him to use dark magic because its convenient and easy to use. I think, to me, the conflict of Callum and his other self that used Dark magic created a third option to still search for a primal source. It would have been nice if they mention the dream sequence to feel like theres some type of time dilation where an hour would be like a 6 months or so. But the fact that the conflict that Callum faced and how he overcame that by still trying to find a connection to the Sky Primal makes it a good concept of story for me.

But like you said, we need to wait for future episodes to flesh out all these plotholes!
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
With a little brother born with psychic powers your grandson of aaravos theory makes the most sense.
It makes no sense because you are only establishing links because one characater can do magic while others can too therefore related. They haven't done much in terms of world building, for all we know there could be more than just these few characters.

At the end of the day, Callum made a connection because he finally understood the primal source something all creatures can do.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,637
We know nothing of Callum's biological father, i am thinking that may play a role later considering his crazy dream with the cube and talking about his destiny. Plus the cube was purposely left to him and it was from a person who could use all forms of magic.
It might make more sense on a lore level but I wouldn’t appreciate that Callum’s journey to bring peace between races is because he has the blood to prove it. There aren’t half elves in this story yet and for Callum to be the singular one would accelerate the unease that these choices are fated rather than decided through character motivations because he is a chosen one.

... though I kinda accepted Callum’s newfound magic. It seemed more to come from a place of wanting to be useful and the frustration of not being able to be useful rather than ego. I didn’t realize that it might be fast-tracking a DBZ finale of Aavaros vs the Dragon Prince Avatar though which fills me with unease but seems obvious in retrospect. Alas.

Best enjoy the moment to moment developments for now.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
I'm glad to see other people in the thread think Callum is a brat. He's the only character I don't like and don't care for, which makes his prominence all the more annoying.

Was there ever an explanation for what makes dark magic bad? It feels like you have to take for granted that killing animals is bad, but several people in the show are demonstrably omnivores. Even the illusory elf woman was still feeding them grubs, which means humans aren't the only omnivores. So, what, it's okay to eat bugs, but it's not okay to use them as ingredients for spells? Where is the consistency in that? At least in Eragon the elves were vegan.

If the show doesn't either show why dark magic is actually intrinsically bad, or else rectify general opinion of its usage, then I'm going to be fairly disappointed.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,946
I'm glad to see other people in the thread think Callum is a brat. He's the only character I don't like and don't care for, which makes his prominence all the more annoying.

Was there ever an explanation for what makes dark magic bad? It feels like you have to take for granted that killing animals is bad, but several people in the show are demonstrably omnivores. Even the illusory elf woman was still feeding them grubs, which means humans aren't the only omnivores. So, what, it's okay to eat bugs, but it's not okay to use them as ingredients for spells? Where is the consistency in that? At least in Eragon the elves were vegan.

If the show doesn't either show why dark magic is actually intrinsically bad, or else rectify general opinion of its usage, then I'm going to be fairly disappointed.
I feel like sucking the life energy out of things to kill people is a bit higher on the fucked up scale then providing sustenance.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,946
To be serious there’s probably more consequences that I have a theory on but I’m going to wait until I finish this season before vocalizing anything.(haven’t had time to sit down and watch till today.)

Also I’ll say I like Callum in Season 1 and empathize with the desire to be special. But we’ll see how I feel when I’m done.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,843
Tokyo
Dark magic doesn't have to be used to kill people, and other magic types can kill people, so that's still arbitrary moralizing.
Ah you literally are sucking the life out of creatures to use dark magic, the other kinds you dont kill creatures to do them. Unless you think killing things to cast magic isnt a bad thing?
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
I'm glad to see other people in the thread think Callum is a brat. He's the only character I don't like and don't care for, which makes his prominence all the more annoying.

Was there ever an explanation for what makes dark magic bad? It feels like you have to take for granted that killing animals is bad, but several people in the show are demonstrably omnivores. Even the illusory elf woman was still feeding them grubs, which means humans aren't the only omnivores. So, what, it's okay to eat bugs, but it's not okay to use them as ingredients for spells? Where is the consistency in that? At least in Eragon the elves were vegan.

If the show doesn't either show why dark magic is actually intrinsically bad, or else rectify general opinion of its usage, then I'm going to be fairly disappointed.
I believe it's called dark magic because you fuel your power by harming others. Eating or hunting is part of the natural cycle of creatures, it only becomes bad when you purposely harm.
 

gryvan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
371
I'm glad to see other people in the thread think Callum is a brat. He's the only character I don't like and don't care for, which makes his prominence all the more annoying.

Was there ever an explanation for what makes dark magic bad? It feels like you have to take for granted that killing animals is bad, but several people in the show are demonstrably omnivores. Even the illusory elf woman was still feeding them grubs, which means humans aren't the only omnivores. So, what, it's okay to eat bugs, but it's not okay to use them as ingredients for spells? Where is the consistency in that? At least in Eragon the elves were vegan.

If the show doesn't either show why dark magic is actually intrinsically bad, or else rectify general opinion of its usage, then I'm going to be fairly disappointed.
I mean small usage of dark magic is basically killing small magical creatures or plant as we saw Claudia/Callum casting it. We also see that soren's paralysis was healed due to a much larger amount of dark magic needed to cure him (killing the baby deer back at that fruit tree). So it looks as though the grander the dark magic, the bigger sacrifice it needs. I feel the future episodes will show something bigger.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
Ah you literally are sucking the life out of creatures to use dark magic, the other kinds you dont kill creatures to do them. Unless you think killing things to cast magic isnt a bad thing?
It's a sliding scale, I suppose, the same way we moralize about eating dogs but enjoy eating cows.

I believe it's called dark magic because you fuel your power by harming others. Eating or hunting is part of the natural cycle of creatures, it only becomes bad when you purposely harm.
Define natural? How is dark magic unnatural? Just because it has the word dark in front of it? Darkness is the most natural thing there is. Every living thing in the world saps energy from something else to live. We mostly just don't care because stars and plants don't seem to care. So you have to draw a line somewhere and say "taking energy from things after this point is bad, but not before". And more to the point, apparently it's unnatural for humans to practice any primal magic, so is Callum immoral for practicing sky magic that's not natural to him?

I mean small usage of dark magic is basically killing small magical creatures or plant as we saw Claudia/Callum casting it. We also see that soren's paralysis was healed due to a much larger amount of dark magic needed to cure him (killing the baby deer back at that fruit tree). So it looks as though the grander the dark magic, the bigger sacrifice it needs. I feel the future episodes will show something bigger.
Right. That event in particular was a bad thing to do, and a malicious use of dark magic, but it doesn't make the magic itself bad. Consider, for example, if Callum had used aspero to push someone off a cliff. Does that make sky magic bad?
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
Define natural? How is dark magic unnatural? Just because it has the word dark in front of it? Darkness is the most natural thing there is. Every living thing in the world saps energy from something else to live. We mostly just don't care because stars and plants don't seem to care. So you have to draw a line somewhere and say "taking energy from things after this point is bad, but not before".
I'd say natural is the same way we define it IRL IE tiger eats gazelle and that's fine because tiger is designed to survive and it has its place in the ecosystem. Think of it like the magical continent (for what we know) is all hippies who love nature and humans made guns and big game hunt for status. The circle of life is a natural order of growth, decay, and rebirth. When you decide to kill a bunch of animals or intelligent creatures to, let's say, build a spirit bomb you are disrupting that cycle which becomes unnatural. It's just a simplistic way of saying, "let's not kill things so we can be magically stronger as that's not cool."

We could discuss this through the lens of modern technology, scientific understanding, amd philosophy, but what would be the point? Not much. The show just wants to deliver the message killing things to fuel your magic is evil. I don't see how they aren't being consistent with that.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
I'd say natural is the same way we define it IRL IE tiger eats gazelle and that's fine because tiger is designed to survive and it has its place in the ecosystem. Think of it like the magical continent (for what we know) is all hippies who love nature and humans made guns and big game hunt for status. The circle of life is a natural order of growth, decay, and rebirth. When you decide to kill a bunch of animals or intelligent creatures to, let's say, build a spirit bomb you are disrupting that cycle which becomes unnatural. It's just a simplistic way of saying, "let's not kill things so we can be magically stronger as that's not cool."

We could discuss this through the lens of modern technology, scientific understanding, amd philosophy, but what would be the point? Not much. The show just wants to deliver the message killing things to fuel your magic is evil. I don't see how they aren't being consistent with that.
For this argument to work, I think it has to be framed in a way where the hippies intrinsically and historically have more power than the gunners, and where the gunners cannot become hippies.

To me, it makes more sense to compare it to herbivores and carnivores, except the herbivores are telling the carnivores that their method of eating is wrong, even though the carnivores literally cannot eat plants. What is natural for the elves is not natural for the humans, so it's unfair to put equal expectations on both.
 

Actinium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
747
California
Aspero would need to include a person on a cliff as part of it's inherent basis for being cast to be comparable to dark magic. Dark magic has a cost and an effect, as in you could presumably cast the same effect as aspero using the right dark magic but you would then be both doing harm to start the spell and then choosing to do harm with the spell itself by pushing someone off a cliff. The only possible moral grey area for dark magic is if it was explored as a form of lawful punishment, as in killing a murderer to fuel a spell that would save an innocent person. But so far that doesn't even seem to be an option as dark magic by all accounts is incredibly specific in its ingredient/sacrificial requirements. The spell to cure a fatal illness probably involves beating a family of newts to death with a horse shoe or some shit, not soul sucking an elvish serial killer.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,254
Dark magic has a toll on the human body. Viren's body clearly has problems and Claudia's hair turned white after casting that big spell. I don't particularly like the way dark magic is framed in this show, but there are clear downsides to using it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
For this argument to work, I think it has to be framed in a way where the hippies intrinsically and historically have more power than the gunners, and where the gunners cannot become hippies.

To me, it makes more sense to compare it to herbivores and carnivores, except the herbivores are telling the carnivores that their method of eating is wrong, even though the carnivores literally cannot eat plants. What is natural for the elves is not natural for the humans, so it's unfair to put equal expectations on both.
It doesn't go much into it but the humans started harvesting creatures for power and not sustenance. Maybe if humans were subjugated by the elves then sure it makes sense as to why elves say its bad. It just doesn't seen worth it for this show to get that deep into the right and wrongs of harm and suffering to help others. A simple blanket can suffice.

The show is too young. I think either better explanations or more questions will be given. I wouldn't be surprised if we see this later down the road:

  • Why humans aren't automatically attuned to the elements
  • Magical creatures who use dark magic
  • Why dark magic is as bad as folks say it is
  • Why humans created dark magic
  • Elves are evil cause they attack Best Aunt
I just don't see how dark magic can be seen as good when the idea behind it is "kill things and use their life essence to do magic" while elemental is "connect with the element arcanuum and cast fireball." One is easily more good than the other because it doesn't require life to fuel it. Plus, more and more powerful dark magic requires more life. Viren so gonna sacrifice a city one day.

Maybe one day people all around will embrace and use dark magic for personal, politcal, or whatever way they see fit, but I suspect if that did occur on a widespread level that all life would be consumed at a very scary speed.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
It doesn't go much into it but the humans started harvesting creatures for power and not sustenance. Maybe if humans were subjugated by the elves then sure it makes sense as to why elves say its bad. It just doesn't seen worth it for this show to get that deep into the right and wrongs of harm and suffering to help others. A simple blanket can suffice.

The show is too young. I think either better explanations or more questions will be given. I wouldn't be surprised if we see this later down the road:

  • Why humans aren't automatically attuned to the elements
  • Magical creatures who use dark magic
  • Why dark magic is as bad as folks say it is
  • Why humans created dark magic
  • Elves are evil cause they attack Best Aunt
I just don't see how dark magic can be seen as good when the idea behind it is "kill things and use their life essence to do magic" while elemental is "connect with the element arcanuum and cast fireball." One is easily more good than the other because it doesn't require life to fuel it. Plus, more and more powerful dark magic requires more life. Viren so gonna sacrifice a city one day.

Maybe one day people all around will embrace and use dark magic for personal, politcal, or whatever way they see fit, but I suspect if that did occur on a widespread level that all life would be consumed at a very scary speed.
I guess I still don't know why you're drawing a line between "power" and sustenance as if they're wholly separate concepts. Consuming sustenance is a power move, and power is used to sustain one's position.

Those bullet points are things I'd love to see. I think it's really fertile ground for the show, even if half of it is expected. Although the fourth point isn't true. We already know Aavaros first showed humans how to use dark magic.

I'm not making a value judgment on dark magic. It simply is, without inherent good or bad connotations. The morality comes in its usage and in the prejudices or expectations of the society surrounding the user. And you could theoretically develop a sustainable fuel for dark magic by farming non sentient creatures.

Plus, there is an energy budget for the other magics as well. For example, the moonlight magic comes from the energy shining on the moon which comes from the energy from the sun which comes from the energy in a shit ton of hydrogen and helium. And the energy of the sky magic comes from atmospheric and wind energy which comes from a concert of water vapor content and temperature differentials which comes from the energy of sunlight and geothermal forces interacting. Those magics are just so much further abstracted and come from non sapient sources, so we don't attach a moral value to them. But it's equivalent on a utilitarian scale.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,574
I've said it before and I'll say it again. F Elves.

These are war times. Elves have an inherent magical advantage that humans don't. So they get extra high and mighty about humans killing a bug to defend themselves from already magical beings smh. (Using dark magic for bad things is of course bad)

I'm pretty sure most people irl would be fine with a process that could cure paralysis that involved killing a deer.
 

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,498
I've said it before and I'll say it again. F Elves.

These are war times. Elves have an inherent magical advantage that humans don't. So they get extra high and mighty about humans killing a bug to defend themselves from already magical beings smh. (Using dark magic for bad things is of course bad)

I'm pretty sure most people irl would be fine with a process that could cure paralysis that involved killing a deer.
It doesn't look like he's cured, the dark magic just looks like it is holding him
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
I guess I still don't know why you're drawing a line between "power" and sustenance as if they're wholly separate concepts. Consuming sustenance is a power move, and power is used to sustain one's position.

Those bullet points are things I'd love to see. I think it's really fertile ground for the show, even if half of it is expected. Although the fourth point isn't true. We already know Aavaros first showed humans how to use dark magic.

I'm not making a value judgment on dark magic. It simply is, without inherent good or bad connotations. The morality comes in its usage and in the prejudices or expectations of the society surrounding the user. And you could theoretically develop a sustainable fuel for dark magic by farming non sentient creatures.

Plus, there is an energy budget for the other magics as well. For example, the moonlight magic comes from the energy shining on the moon which comes from the energy from the sun which comes from the energy in a shit ton of hydrogen and helium. And the energy of the sky magic comes from atmospheric and wind energy which comes from a concert of water vapor content and temperature differentials which comes from the energy of sunlight and geothermal forces interacting. Those magics are just so much further abstracted and come from non sapient sources, so we don't attach a moral value to them. But it's equivalent on a utilitarian scale.
They're different concepts. One is how nature propagates the other is killing for the sake of achieving strength which isn't a good thing.

You can't say the "morality comes with its usage" when the fundamental requirement of Dark Magic is sacrificing a living creature to do what you want. You could theoretically kill 10 deer to stop a plague and that would be considered good, but you still can't shave off the fact that to do anything with this magic you have to kill something. The act of killing is what is being considered wrong here, not the sharing of resources. They just want to let you know that killing = bad. There then comes your farming question: the more magical the feat, the more you must sacrifice which is why Claudia had to sacrifice way more to heal her brother. How much would you need to sacrifice to, let's say, cover the electricity for a kingdom for a year, it doesn't seen sustainable or right when you could, let's say, do hydroelectricity. Dark Magic is a short cut that requires life which equals a big no.

This isn't a utilitarian idea, though, it's concepts of killing or not killing. There isn't much to that as there's no reason to. Humans sacrificed things to give themselves power to rule, the magical creatures did not like that because killing for power is abhorrent (which could be why Aaravos is stuck in some Phantom Zone like mirror). I don't think the Elves or other magical creatures would care if they found a magical source that wasn't requiring the sacrificing of creatures to use.

I think it comes down to whether or not you think the idea of killing is some OK thing in a pure logical, "things are resources" sense.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
They're different concepts. One is how nature propagates the other is killing for the sake of achieving strength which isn't a good thing.

You can't say the "morality comes with its usage" when the fundamental requirement of Dark Magic is sacrificing a living creature to do what you want. You could theoretically kill 10 deer to stop a plague and that would be considered good, but you still can't shave off the fact that to do anything with this magic you have to kill something. The act of killing is what is being considered wrong here, not the sharing of resources. They just want to let you know that killing = bad. There then comes your farming question: the more magical the feat, the more you must sacrifice which is why Claudia had to sacrifice way more to heal her brother. How much would you need to sacrifice to, let's say, cover the electricity for a kingdom for a year, it doesn't seen sustainable or right when you could, let's say, do hydroelectricity. Dark Magic is a short cut that requires life which equals a big no.

This isn't a utilitarian idea, though, it's concepts of killing or not killing. There isn't much to that as there's no reason to. Humans sacrificed things to give themselves power to rule, the magical creatures did not like that because killing for power is abhorrent (which could be why Aaravos is stuck in some Phantom Zone like mirror). I don't think the Elves or other magical creatures would care if they found a magical source that wasn't requiring the sacrificing of creatures to use.

I think it comes down to whether or not you think the idea of killing is some OK thing in a pure logical, "things are resources" sense.
"how nature propagates" and "killing for the sake of achieving strength" are the same thing.

Your language is laden with moralistic connotation but it doesn't need to be. For example, instead of saying "sacrificing a living creature" you could say "harvesting the energy from a separate bio organism." And it means the same thing except the morals are removed from it.

Or when you say "the act of killing is what is being considered wrong here" even though you previously described a lion killing its prey as natural. Killing is wrong except when it's not, because you're using loaded terms.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
Wait, have you been trolling me this whole time? Ugh
No, but I'm a little baffled as to how you aren't getting that killing things to fuel your magic is considered bad. Maybe you do get it but you're stretching the idea of consuming things to a strange level. It's a children's cartoon where killing things is bad. I don't know what else to say. :/ I'm actually surprised it has stretched that far.
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
No, but I'm a little baffled as to how you aren't getting that killing things to fuel your magic is considered bad. Maybe you do get it but you're stretching the idea of consuming things to a strange level. It's a children's cartoon where killing things is bad. I don't know what else to say. :/
Because killing things is literally how we get all of our energy. The energy to think, the energy to move, the energy to talk, the energy for anything you can or have or will do came from something that was killed. Every measurable bit of energy in your body came from something that died. So if you can't do mundane things without the fuel of a dead thing, then why are you adding that limitation onto magical things?

There's no categorical difference. The only difference is emotional, societal, and ultimately arbitrary.
 

icyflamez96

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,574
Am I implying that Sokka hasn't found himself 🤔

Oh my god nothing gets me more salty than imagining myself as a non bender in avatar.

At least I could be a chi blocker lightning glove dude... Imagine a chi blocking earthbender.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,478
Because killing things is literally how we get all of our energy. The energy to think, the energy to move, the energy to talk, the energy for anything you can or have or will do came from something that was killed. Every measurable bit of energy in your body came from something that died. So if you can't do mundane things without the fuel of a dead thing, then why are you adding that limitation onto magical things?

There's no categorical difference. The only difference is emotional, societal, and ultimately arbitrary.
There's a clear difference between killing and eating something to not go hungry and then killing something to shoot a fireball. :/
 

sabrina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
newport beach, CA
There's a clear difference between killing and eating something to not go hungry and then killing something to shoot a fireball. :/
No there's not. There isn't. You can't just keep saying that there is. That doesn't make it true.

Also, if it was true, which it's not, then you're insinuating that the only ethical consumption is the bare minimum to stave off hunger. If this was true then no activity which induces further hunger would be ethical, and no consumption during periods where you're not hungry would be ethical. It's asinine.

But obviously you don't think that, which means you're arbitrarily drawing a line between how much killing is okay and how much isn't, only you're unable to rigidly define that line and just base it on your feelings. Which, okay, fine, but don't apply those same standards to other people because other people have their own feelings about where to draw that line.