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The Dragon Prince |OT| The Last Frameratebender (S3 live now)

ObbyDent

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,300
Los Angeles
Also sorry for the double post but there's been some allegations tonight by former employees of Wonderstorm that Aaron was treating his female employees like garbage and I'm not sure how I feel about the show now :/
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
I really liked season 2 :(

I do think the show has an issue of the backstory being far more interesting than the current main characters but yeah.

What are your thoughts on Callum?
I think there’s a lot of good stuff about season 2, but the weaknesses just sour the good bits.

I’m sorry, I’m a little too lazy to type out all my opinions on Callum again, but I found some of my old posts from this thread:

Binged the season and overall, it’s really solid and a strong improvement over season 1

That said, I kinda hate Callum to the point that he feels almost like he came out of a different show?

In season 1, I got low key Kylo Ren vibes from him; a self centred child of privilege who meant well, but always had to make everything about himself. It was an annoying trait, but I thought it was going to be an issue addressed in future, especially when it stayed one of his defining traits in season 2 (particularly groan inducing in that scene where Rayla says she has to save the dragon, and Callum’s response to his friend wanting to risk her life was “but what do I have to do?”), but instead he’s rewarded for it.

After an entire season of him whining about not being able to magic, he has a crazy fever dream and then gets to be the first human to use primal magic. So rather than humans being unable to do something and taking increasingly dark turns so they could do it, it turns out they just weren’t trying hard enough.

And it’s such a contrast to the maturity Ezran shows at the end of the season. Ezran wants to adventure and see the world with his brother and friend, and realises that he has to mature and accept his responsibilities.

In contrast, Callum whines and whines about being the poor prince who isn’t special enough, and then gets to be super ultra special. Like this fucker defines himself entirely on how good he is at this one thing he decides is for him. How much more interesting would he be if he accepted he straight up can’t magic and learns to develop as a fully formed person rather than just magic man

Callum is ostensibly Asian (could have fooled me. Check out that flashback with him and his mom. They look nothing alike), but everything about his writing feels like such a boring and typical straight white male perspective you see in lesser shows.

And it’s such a weird fucking contrast with everything else in this show. Like this is a world with a clear commitment to diversity and exploring nuanced and varied perspectives, and we’re stuck with this kid who seems like he should have been the main character of Generic YA Fantasy 7

Basically, fuck Callum. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
And he doesn’t even have to work hard for it! This is the magic getting process as per Callum:

1) feel sorry for yourself
2) engage in stupid and self destructive acts
3) get magic by having a dream epiphany

While I didn’t want him to get magic, even the way he got magic sucks and could have been done so much better.

This is a paradigm shifting event; humans’ inability to use magic has shaped the geopolitics of the continent, and its entirely upended with barely any build up.

So what we’re left with is a brat who gets rewarded for being a brat, and all the human scholars and magicians looking like idiots.

Like the way Callum’s entire character was handled felt like such a pivot from season one. I’m not suggesting they were influenced by executive decisions or whatever, but as a viewer, that’s what it felt like



Claudia was the standout, and Soren was pretty good.

Really like Ezren’s arc in theory, but he was a nonentity for the first 7 episodes before having kinda sudden character growth.

Rayla was good for the whole five minutes of screen time she had this season, and it looks like they’ll be planting seeds for ways to take her character in future. Her almost blurting our she loves Callum is stupid, especially since they’ve known each other for like a week, but only really plays into how Callum-centric the universe of Season 2 is, which remains the chief problem with the show.

I’m undecided on Evil Dad. Depending on how they write his motivations in future, he could be either a really compelling character or a cartoon villain

Callum, like all trash, belongs in a dumpster
The darkest timeline



He’s not though. He’s resolute and self sacrificing in the way his father was; obsessed with his own nobility and moral virtue, arrogantly assuming he is entitled to take charge of every moral problem that comes before him.

The problem is that the narrative was aware of Harrow’s shortcomings, but seemingly blind to the fact that Callum is very much his father’s son. Advisors like Sarai and Evil Dad regularly call out Harrow on his bullshit, and second guess his decisions that sound noble on face value, but are selfish in actuality. Even Harrow himself came to terms with this, at least somewhat, in his final hours.

Callum’s selfishness is unaddressed and treated by the writing to be virtuous and has always been rewarded. Yes, Callum shows care and concern for others, but always in a way that pivots himself and his feelings back to the center of attention.

The writers could be playing a long game here, but unlike season 1, this season shows no awareness of Callum’s weakness of character.

I will agree he is a good brother to Ezren though. He’s not a complete shitstain
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,245
Also sorry for the double post but there's been some allegations tonight by former employees of Wonderstorm that Aaron was treating his female employees like garbage and I'm not sure how I feel about the show now :/
Yeah same. I started watching the show because I wanted to support Danika in a way when she moved there from Waypoint, and now that she's gone I also don't know how to feel.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,872
The entire dark magic morality thing is so obnoxious and unconvincing every time it pops up in the show.

Like what the fuck is the moral difference between killing some bugs to make pancakes and directly feeding bugs to people under the illusion they're pancakes?
 

Cheerilee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,861
The entire dark magic morality thing is so obnoxious and unconvincing every time it pops up in the show.

Like what the fuck is the moral difference between killing some bugs to make pancakes and directly feeding bugs to people under the illusion they're pancakes?
Xadia is rich in magic because the Primal Sources are handing that shit out freely for everyone to play with. Except the Humans. The Humans have been specifically cut off from receiving magic, for some reason. And the Humans don't need magic, they lived just fine for untold generations without it.

But then the Humans figured out that if you kill something or someone who has magic, you can steal a temporary hit of magic. The Dragons and Elves and whatnot are entirely reasonable to be shocked by this development, and do not want to live alongside people who might murder them to steal their magic. So they forced the Humans to move West while they packed up and moved East. And then the Humans declared war, demanding their right to live with (and occasionally murder) the Dragons and Elves. The Humans are totally in the wrong here (although you could say that the Dark Mages fucked things up for everyone, and that your average Human villager didn't do anything wrong).

You mention killing bugs, but the bugs are all that's left in the West after most of the other magical creatures moved East. The main MacGuffin of the show is a Dark Mage's pursuit of the Egg/Dragon Prince, because the Dark Mage wants to harvest an intelligent creature who is revered and considered a Prince by the people in the East, while a couple years ago the Human King lost his wife in an incursion into the East, on a mission to kill and harvest a large humanoid "monster" that was minding it's own business. You think the Dark Mages in this show wouldn't kill an Elf to drain them of their magic? They totally would. The Humans in this world (led by the Dark Mages) want to kill and harvest magical creatures, but they complain and call it unfair when the magical creatures fight back.

And as we just saw in the latest season, Callum was given magic by one of the Primal Sources, so the problem with Humans being the only ones to not have magic seems to be a problem with Humans, and not with magic itself, nor the Primal Sources.

Also, you seem to be suggesting that "killing for magic" happens either way, and that the problem is people acting squeamish about doing the killing personally? But that's not the case. The Primal Sources appear to be handing out magic for free, it's only the Humans who kill to take it.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,872
Xadia is rich in magic because the Primal Sources are handing that shit out freely for everyone to play with. Except the Humans. The Humans have been specifically cut off from receiving magic, for some reason. And the Humans don't need magic, they lived just fine for untold generations without it.

But then the Humans figured out that if you kill something or someone who has magic, you can steal a temporary hit of magic. The Dragons and Elves and whatnot are entirely reasonable to be shocked by this development, and do not want to live alongside people who might murder them to steal their magic. So they forced the Humans to move West while they packed up and moved East. And then the Humans declared war, demanding their right to live with (and occasionally murder) the Dragons and Elves. The Humans are totally in the wrong here (although you could say that the Dark Mages fucked things up for everyone, and that your average Human villager didn't do anything wrong).

You mention killing bugs, but the bugs are all that's left in the West after most of the other magical creatures moved East. The main MacGuffin of the show is a Dark Mage's pursuit of the Egg/Dragon Prince, because the Dark Mage wants to harvest an intelligent creature who is revered and considered a Prince by the people in the East, while a couple years ago the Human King lost his wife in an incursion into the East, on a mission to kill and harvest a large humanoid "monster" that was minding it's own business. You think the Dark Mages in this show wouldn't kill an Elf to drain them of their magic? They totally would. The Humans in this world (led by the Dark Mages) want to kill and harvest magical creatures, but they complain and call it unfair when the magical creatures fight back.

And as we just saw in the latest season, Callum was given magic by one of the Primal Sources, so the problem with Humans being the only ones to not have magic seems to be a problem with Humans, and not with magic itself, nor the Primal Sources.

Also, you seem to be suggesting that "killing for magic" happens either way, and that the problem is people acting squeamish about doing the killing personally? But that's not the case. The Primal Sources appear to be handing out magic for free, it's only the Humans who kill to take it.
What is the difference between your neighbor potentially killing you for your magic or potentially killing you for you gold, your food, or your land?

It’s not like murder was invented with dark magic. Being willing to kill and eat a cow doesn’t mean you’re also willing to be a fucking cannibal, yet that’s basically the argument you and the show are putting for Dark Magic being “bad”.

I get Viren exists and is a very bad man. What does that have to do with the morality of dark magic in general? Viren’s not bad because he uses dark magic, he’s bad because he’s willing to murder and kidnap children.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,011
I'm sure Aaravaros was exiled into that mirror realm because he was a swell guy what with getting magic for free from primal sources.

I'm going to take a guess and say that guy taught an impressionable human how to extract magic from living creatures which is why his mirror was in human hands (or was it stolen more recently? I can't remember). The Elves banished him and erased any mention of him so as to deny their involvement in that whole humans killing magical life fuss.

Or it's something totally different *shrugs*.
 
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Cheerilee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,861
What is the difference between your neighbor potentially killing you for your magic or potentially killing you for you gold, your food, or your land?

It’s not like murder was invented with dark magic. Being willing to kill and eat a cow doesn’t mean you’re also willing to be a fucking cannibal, yet that’s basically the argument you and the show are putting for Dark Magic being “bad”.

I get Viren exists and is a very bad man. What does that have to do with the morality of dark magic in general? Viren’s not bad because he uses dark magic, he’s bad because he’s willing to murder and kidnap children.
I would argue that Dark Magic was a significant game-changer. If an Elf lives just outside of a Human village, what reason is there for hostilities? Sure, maybe some Humans might try to rob the Elf, or be noisy and scare the birds away, or whatever. But Dark Magic introduced a new conflict. The Humans are jealous of the Elf's magic (jealous of every creature's magic), so they might just randomly decide to club the Elf on the back of the head, tie them to a stone altar, and slit the Elf's throat.

What does it take for a Dark Mage to escalate from bugs to cows to people? I dunno, but Claudia has already been shown to be willing to escalate from bugs to deer. Once you get a taste, why would anyone stop? And the Dark Magic seems to corrupt and change you. Both Claudia and Viren are shown to be developing physical symptoms from their use of Dark Magic. Callum's experience with Dark Magic resembled poison or intoxication.

And then there's the "taboo" factor. The Humans are perverting natural law and the will of their "gods". Humans presumably raise and slaughter cows and pigs and chickens in this world, and the Elves don't particularly seem to have a problem with that (maybe the Elves do that sort of thing themselves, I dunno, I can't recall if it was mentioned whether Elves in this world are vegetarian), but when the Humans squeeze the magic out of a creature, that's the part that magically-gifted creatures like Elves seem to find horrifying. And the lore of the show seems to back them up on that. You don't seem to understand how being granted power from a small-g god is any different from killing someone who it was given to and stealing it for yourself, but this world says that it's different, and it seems pretty easy to understand why.

I'm sure Aaravaros was exiled into that mirror realm because he was a swell guy what with getting magic for free from primal sources.

I'm going to take a guess and say that guy taught an impressionable human how to extract magic from living creatures which is why his mirror was in human hands. The Elves banished him and erased any mention of him so as to deny their involvement in that whole humans killing magical life fuss.

Or it's something totally different *shrugs*.
Yeah, I'm guessing he either was the original source for Dark Magic, and he tipped off the first Dark Mages (only to join in the attack against them, for his own manipulative ends), or he saw the first Dark Mages in that fight, and then got curious and began his own research.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,419
Is it just me or is the animation massively improved over the last two seasons? Episode 5's

soulfang sequences

Was pretty damn amazing.
 

chronos4590

Member
Oct 25, 2017
374
Thanks for the thread title update i forgot it was today. I think a few did. Will start watching later tonight
after the mandalorian 🥴
 

Diablos54

Member
Oct 26, 2017
300
Well... That was something to say the least! It must have been pretty good because I finished the whole thing in one go!
 
May 26, 2018
4,740
Binged it tonight. Definitely my favorite season! Next to none of the listless filler compared to the other ones, and the animation really impressed. Some of the fight scenes had top notch work.
 

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,202
Hows the new season?
I was like, I'll watch one episode.
[4 hours later]
Holy shit, they really ramped everything up for S3: battle, lore, shipping, akwardness, callbacks, jelly tarts

Damn. Budget was spent.

Went like from
S1 6/10
S2 7/10
S3 10/10

gif without context


 
Dec 22, 2018
303
I’m three episodes in and it’s very good.

I’m hoping a season 4 gets greenlit. Hell, I’d by fine with a spinoff just following the adventures of
human Rayla and earth elf Callum.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,039
Holy hell that was amazing. That is easily without a doubt the best season thus far.

Though I can't help but feel a tad bit guilty considering the controversy with the studio. :(
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,039
Also I'll say this... This show REALLY REALLY is starting to skirt the line between what is allowed on a kid shows (it's obviously not only for kids but it's clearly meant to be able to be enjoyed by them.)
 

Whaleman

Member
Nov 14, 2017
11
I was like, I'll watch one episode.
[4 hours later]
Holy shit, they really ramped everything up for S3: battle, lore, shipping, akwardness, callbacks, jelly tarts

Damn. Budget was spent.

Went like from
S1 6/10
S2 7/10
S3 10/10

gif without context


YOU DO ALWAYS COME BACK!
 

Wafflinson

Member
Nov 17, 2017
1,420
Hope ya'll are right.

Show had so much potential the first two seasons that was wasted by the incompetently flaccid pace that the story progressed. Compounded by the absurdly short series.

The first two seasons could easily be summed into maybe 4 episodes of actual story content and progression.
 

Mortemis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,756
Well that was so much better than the last two seasons and any expectations I had for this. A great season. I sat down to check out the first episode or two, and ended up bingeing through the whole thing.

The animation was a lot better from what I remember, the pacing was great, and it felt like a satisfying whole story arc, which was something that seasons 1 and 2 were missing for me. There were a few things that bugged me, like the whole Ezran abdication plot made no sense, but I guess that can explained by r/kidsarefuckingstupid but overall I thought that the plot lines were some of the best we could’ve gotten after the setup from the first two seasons. An enjoyable story throughout.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,566
Orlando, FL
Hope ya'll are right.

Show had so much potential the first two seasons that was wasted by the incompetently flaccid pace that the story progressed. Compounded by the absurdly short series.

The first two seasons could easily be summed into maybe 4 episodes of actual story content and progression.
Why'd you watch the whole thing if you didn't like it? If I think a show is lame then I usually watch two episodes.
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,961
3 minutes into the first episode and I knew this season would be special.

Watched up to episode 4 last night. Great stuff.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,872
After a really promising first half to this season, the last few episodes went down the shitter. Very disappointed because the animation has improved immensely and the writing had also improved until we reached that final stretch.

The climax being good guys™ vs the evil horde of dark scary lava people led by a creepy disfigured guy talking to a worm feather boa devil on his shoulder has basically doomed any attempt at serious nuance this series had.

"The cycle of revenge ends here. Now let's go kill all the people looking for revenge; they've been transformed into roaring lava monsters by an evil wizard so it doesn't count."

Is Callum better this season?
He still sucks, even in the good episodes.
 
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