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The Era RPG Club Plays: Ultima 7 (PC)
- Thread starter Deleted member 419
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I have the Fire Sword, none of my companions have anything special. I was able to navigate around the golems, through a door, and I locked the door behind me.
That's what I'm doing. Still entering a cult....
Really hate their stuff about success in particular so far. Talking around Paws (such as to the fellowship head there's child) painted a really nasty picture with this seemingly caring exterior. They come across as "use your brother to your own ends and preach to him his success so that he serves you in attaining yours and, btw, the fact that you got your success means you are awesome: there is no gap between worth and worldly attainment."
So disgusting.
Edit: I really wanted to disabuse Lord British of his positive impression lol. That is another aspect of their subterfuge that makes my skin crawl. They've got him totally fooled it seems.
Really hate their stuff about success in particular so far. Talking around Paws (such as to the fellowship head there's child) painted a really nasty picture with this seemingly caring exterior. They come across as "use your brother to your own ends and preach to him his success so that he serves you in attaining yours and, btw, the fact that you got your success means you are awesome: there is no gap between worth and worldly attainment."
So disgusting.
Edit: I really wanted to disabuse Lord British of his positive impression lol. That is another aspect of their subterfuge that makes my skin crawl. They've got him totally fooled it seems.
That stuff was added as part of the keyring mod, so it's probably intended for longtime fans. I don't know if there's anything added to the game to help or not...
Oh dang, alright. I doubt it.
Going in blind I have to admit I'm not 100% sure which things are for the main quest, which are for the mod, and which are Forge of Virtue...but I actually really like that about it.
The Ultima series is one I've never played but always been fascinated by...was before my time in RPGs, but seems like something I would have really loved at the time.
Better late than never. Ultima brought a lot to the table that we haven't seen since, which is both a shame and a testament to the strength of the series. The games hold up well, aside from some (often intentionally) arcane mechanics and puzzles.
Thanks! It's a little infuriating to fight my way through the spiders and scorpions in the Test of Courage because my companions keep trying to return to the golems. Silly companions. :P
One of the things that I love about the series is that it isn't afraid to make the series creator's in-game namesake an ineffectual buffoon of a leader. Lord British is frequently on the wrong side of history.
You accidentally quoted me with their post btw, I just woke up and that weirded me out for a second lol.
I got the magic carpet last night and wow does that thing move. The fact you can roll it up and have someone carry it is great.
Went to Cove. My companions chased off an alligator but I did swing my sword around a bit after it left so I know how that works somewhat now but still haven't fought anything myself.
They weren't joking about Lock Lake being a mess. Going to be a bit hard finding Mack's key in all of that garbage :P.
Bit concerned for the wounded soldiers as I took their healer with me :P.
It was weird when that girl at the shrine started kissing me but made more sense after I heard more about the town being strange that way.
I am curious if people who ask me to do something "soon" will get mad if it takes me a while to get around to it (I'm thinking about the quest to visit Terfin for that Gargoyle liaison and now this quest to visit Yew for that girl).
Seems I need to go back to Britain. I've got that bill signed and Rudyom's notebook on blackrock (I forget what exactly Lord British wanted me to do for him).
A strange thing happened though: I got stuck on the bridge out of Cove. It took a lot of attempts to get my party to go down the stairs but they eventually managed it.
They weren't joking about Lock Lake being a mess. Going to be a bit hard finding Mack's key in all of that garbage :P.
Bit concerned for the wounded soldiers as I took their healer with me :P.
It was weird when that girl at the shrine started kissing me but made more sense after I heard more about the town being strange that way.
I am curious if people who ask me to do something "soon" will get mad if it takes me a while to get around to it (I'm thinking about the quest to visit Terfin for that Gargoyle liaison and now this quest to visit Yew for that girl).
Seems I need to go back to Britain. I've got that bill signed and Rudyom's notebook on blackrock (I forget what exactly Lord British wanted me to do for him).
A strange thing happened though: I got stuck on the bridge out of Cove. It took a lot of attempts to get my party to go down the stairs but they eventually managed it.
If you're playing in Exult and you get stuck like that, you can place your cursor somewhere and hit Alt+T to teleport to where your cursor is. Obviously, this can be used for Evil Cheats, but it can be helpful to get you unstuck too.
thanks. I actually found the pocketwatch eventually, I missed a conversation option it seems. Good to know about 'W' I was using F2 for the time.
The Keyring mod gives at least one NPC a usable spell book but clicking it still resolves into a dialogue prompt to select the spell.
No, unfortunately.
I finished the Forge of Virtue stuff, that's uh, quite the reward(s). Shrine of Love was great, the other two...not so much. Shrine of Truth was some classic old-school bullshit. On the other hand I also did Skara Brae last night and that was probably one of if not the best quest I've come across so far, minus the back and forth to different NPCs while skelebros or those underground tentacle things attack you every 5 seconds.
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Oh well, I guess I'll hold on to both spell books until I can get enough money to purchase the additional spells. Thanks for the clarification.
I remember liking Forge of Virtue when it originally came out, but going through it today is a bit of a slog. I agree, the Shrine of Love is pretty good, and the Shrine of Truth is okay, but the Shrine of Courage was just maddening what with all the re-spawning monsters.
Picked it up again. I'm a bit lost tbh. I'm trying to get to Minoc. I've found a cave with a bunch of cyclopes or some such thing running around in the vicinity of Cove but no other way forward there (I don't think I can handle them atm?). The road north through the marshes has an ambush that kills me pretty much upon encounter so I've been working around the marshes to the west which leads up to the same area the gate on the northeast end of Britain leads. Haven't had much luck exploring east of their yet.
Changing tack, I did find Yew, which is relevant to the shrine of compassion stuff but I died to a bandit ambush there too.
I sort of feel I should probably be training and figuring out those systems but I'm not sure I'm getting money from alligators, wolves, and slimes (their corpses at least seem empty). Also need to decide who to train from. I've met the guy in Britain and now another trainer in Yew.
I've been loading on death but I saved after dying in Yew by mistake. Not sure if I've lost money or something doing such as I put the game down at that point.
(I also went back to Paws at some point in the past couple weeks and finished that side quest. I wasn't expecting to just need time to pass for it to mostly sort itself out tbh and thought I was missing something there. Not surprised in the slightest by the culprit or the motive :P.)
Changing tack, I did find Yew, which is relevant to the shrine of compassion stuff but I died to a bandit ambush there too.
I sort of feel I should probably be training and figuring out those systems but I'm not sure I'm getting money from alligators, wolves, and slimes (their corpses at least seem empty). Also need to decide who to train from. I've met the guy in Britain and now another trainer in Yew.
I've been loading on death but I saved after dying in Yew by mistake. Not sure if I've lost money or something doing such as I put the game down at that point.
(I also went back to Paws at some point in the past couple weeks and finished that side quest. I wasn't expecting to just need time to pass for it to mostly sort itself out tbh and thought I was missing something there. Not surprised in the slightest by the culprit or the motive :P.)
Having completed Ultima VII: The Black Gate + The Forge of Virtue, I am shocked by my reaction to playing this game in a modern context. Apart from the Might & Magic series, the Ultima series has been one that I hold close to my heart. For decades I have been adamant that U7 is one of the best CRPGs of all time. Now, with the veil of nostalgia lifted, I am loath to admit that U7 is, in my opinion, a truly mixed bag.
For good or ill, the Ultima series has never been afraid to push the boundaries of CRPGs technologically and narratively. Ultima VII: The Black Gate is no different. I found Britannia larger, more immersive, and more colorful than ever. NPCs go about their daily lives, each with their own unique script and dialogue. The field of view encompasses the entire screen, eschewing the myriad of status screens found in older entries to the series. Nearly every object in the game can be intuitively manipulated in some way. Now, more than ever, Britannia feels like a living world in which I could sit back and watch the lives of its citizens play out.
Despite its many achievements, Ultima VII: The Black Gate suffers from one critical flaw - the combat system. With no way to directly control your companions and little in the way of engaging encounters, the combat in U7 consists of little more than watching as your companions flail around in the hopes that they will hit the intended target. It can be agonizing watching your companions wander off in the middle of a battle to hack at a wall simply because there is some inaccessible monster behind it.
In an effort trivialize the combat, I completed The Forge of Virtue early on. Unfortunately, this rendered (what I would consider) the enjoyable elements of character progression moot. I never felt the need to put much thought into training characters, equipping the appropriate armor, finding the best weapons, and stocking up on potions and bandages. Nor did I need to explore dungeons outside of the main story because the loot contained therein was useless to me.
At the risk of sounding reductive, the lack of a meaningful combat system short-circuits the other systems in the game making Ultima VII: The Black Gate feel less like a CRPG and more like a "walk and talk" adventure. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as the writing is generally good, and in some places great. Unfortunately, I quickly found myself becoming bored with the lack of variety in gameplay.
Prior to this most recent playthrough, if you asked me to describe Ultima VII: The Black Gate, the words "bored" and "mixed bag" would not be part of the conversation. Yet here I sit, with two and a half decades of CRPGs built on the foundation of the Ultima series, using those words to describe a game I once lauded as one of the greatest of all time, and no one is more shocked than I.
---
Note: I'm not a professional reviewer and I rarely take the time to write this much about my thoughts on a game. Be gentle. ;)
For good or ill, the Ultima series has never been afraid to push the boundaries of CRPGs technologically and narratively. Ultima VII: The Black Gate is no different. I found Britannia larger, more immersive, and more colorful than ever. NPCs go about their daily lives, each with their own unique script and dialogue. The field of view encompasses the entire screen, eschewing the myriad of status screens found in older entries to the series. Nearly every object in the game can be intuitively manipulated in some way. Now, more than ever, Britannia feels like a living world in which I could sit back and watch the lives of its citizens play out.
Despite its many achievements, Ultima VII: The Black Gate suffers from one critical flaw - the combat system. With no way to directly control your companions and little in the way of engaging encounters, the combat in U7 consists of little more than watching as your companions flail around in the hopes that they will hit the intended target. It can be agonizing watching your companions wander off in the middle of a battle to hack at a wall simply because there is some inaccessible monster behind it.
In an effort trivialize the combat, I completed The Forge of Virtue early on. Unfortunately, this rendered (what I would consider) the enjoyable elements of character progression moot. I never felt the need to put much thought into training characters, equipping the appropriate armor, finding the best weapons, and stocking up on potions and bandages. Nor did I need to explore dungeons outside of the main story because the loot contained therein was useless to me.
At the risk of sounding reductive, the lack of a meaningful combat system short-circuits the other systems in the game making Ultima VII: The Black Gate feel less like a CRPG and more like a "walk and talk" adventure. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as the writing is generally good, and in some places great. Unfortunately, I quickly found myself becoming bored with the lack of variety in gameplay.
Prior to this most recent playthrough, if you asked me to describe Ultima VII: The Black Gate, the words "bored" and "mixed bag" would not be part of the conversation. Yet here I sit, with two and a half decades of CRPGs built on the foundation of the Ultima series, using those words to describe a game I once lauded as one of the greatest of all time, and no one is more shocked than I.
---
Note: I'm not a professional reviewer and I rarely take the time to write this much about my thoughts on a game. Be gentle. ;)
I agree blakdeth, I've always held Ultima VII below IV, V, and VI purely because the combat and character progression are genuinely terrible. The world is a marvel, truly one of the greatest ever crafted, but the way you adventure through that world is fairly miserable.
I'd have to agree. The party members are more annoying then helpful most of the time.
By the end of the game, you really don't need them as they just get in the way.
Still , as a first time ecperience, I enjoyed this game...
Doubt I ever play it again.
By the end of the game, you really don't need them as they just get in the way.
Still , as a first time ecperience, I enjoyed this game...
Doubt I ever play it again.
I don't disagree with the flaws with the combat, but I have to say that the combat itself didn't particularly bother me because it was just so fast, and there's something meditative for me about just sitting back and letting the AI hoover up goblins. It felt a bit like playing a God game. The dungeons, however, were pretty excruciating.
Honestly I would have preferred more automation rather than less. If you could set some macros for looting enemies that would have cut down my playtime by like 5 hours. Some kind of FFXII style gambit system would have been great.
Honestly I would have preferred more automation rather than less. If you could set some macros for looting enemies that would have cut down my playtime by like 5 hours. Some kind of FFXII style gambit system would have been great.
Great post blakdeth, cool to hear from someone who lauded it that much coming back to play it after years. It really does feel more like a walk and talk adventure a lot of the time, rather than a CRPG with all elements in equal tune. But I do think CRPGs having bad/automated feeling combat is pretty common though, albeit maybe not to this extent.
As mentioned above though the character progression really hasn't aged well and is my biggest issue about the game, and this was well before I did the Forge of Virtue stuff. I was pretty disappointed when I realize specializing characters was basically pointless and you should just give all your party members plate mail and as much strength as possible so they can be glorified pack-mules.
Yeah, I actually agree with this. I'm pretty indifferent to shallow combat in an RPG if I can get through it quick and it's not really the focus of the game. Dungeons can suck because they go against that mentality, since you'll go through a ton of combat there thanks to the respawn rate which can make them really tedious as you're checking different corridors. The slow down your characters thing that happens is just awful.
As mentioned above though the character progression really hasn't aged well and is my biggest issue about the game, and this was well before I did the Forge of Virtue stuff. I was pretty disappointed when I realize specializing characters was basically pointless and you should just give all your party members plate mail and as much strength as possible so they can be glorified pack-mules.
40 hours seems to be the common sentiment, I've gone over that though as I've done pretty much all the side stuff I've come across and explored most of the world.
I think the RPG crew were talking about putting the "deadline" in mid-April but I don't know if anything was set in stone.
Yeah, I think the combat works well enough as a punctuation mark at the end of a quest or a quick shot of tension while meandering through the wilderness. But any stretch of time longer than a few minutes where you're primarily fighting, it just doesn't work.
And man the inventory, that's a perfect example of simulationism gone wrong.
Combat and character stat progression in U7 was never considered good.
There is really no reason to bring nostalgia into play- the issues that are present in the game now were all there and apparent at original release. Worse even because Exult smooths over some of the more maddening things like the keyring.
I think that's part of why Ultima 7 still feels so "modern" to me. The stuff It excels in we still highly value in CRPGs. In fact you can still see the same arguments being levied at games like The Witcher 3 today (great world to explore! Fascinating Story! Bad combat!). And you will still find plenty of people arguing that, for all of its advances in some areas, Ultima 7 was dumbing down the franchise in others.
There is really no reason to bring nostalgia into play- the issues that are present in the game now were all there and apparent at original release. Worse even because Exult smooths over some of the more maddening things like the keyring.
I think that's part of why Ultima 7 still feels so "modern" to me. The stuff It excels in we still highly value in CRPGs. In fact you can still see the same arguments being levied at games like The Witcher 3 today (great world to explore! Fascinating Story! Bad combat!). And you will still find plenty of people arguing that, for all of its advances in some areas, Ultima 7 was dumbing down the franchise in others.
It works right out of the gate, but playing it in Exult adds a bunch of quality of life stuff that's well worth the tinkering. It doesn't take that long to set up, if you've read the opening post (and the posts right after about resolution) thoroughly you've done most of the work already.
You don't have to install any mods. Just install Exult and point it at your game and play.
The Key ring mod is a separate install and has to be started separately everytime you install the game. However you can use the auto-try key hotkey in Exult without the mod (press 'K' or "Alt-K'). The key ring mod adds a quest and some other stuff in addition to the key ring itself.
Alright, so i changed to 1600:900 and scaling to 4, and while the graphics look good now, the mouse movement is still completely screwed up.
And how do i change the music? It just says in the "in-game menu", but i cant seem to enter any "in-game menu" in the game?
Edit: Says it should be entered by pressing "esc" but that does nothing in-game here.
And how do i change the music? It just says in the "in-game menu", but i cant seem to enter any "in-game menu" in the game?
Edit: Says it should be entered by pressing "esc" but that does nothing in-game here.