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The Era RPG Club Plays: Ultima 7 (PC)
- Thread starter Deleted member 419
- Start date
I've now visited almost every city (just missing Moonglow), and I have to say they are a real mixed bag. In a game built around exploration it's nice if each city has something cool and unique going for it, so that taking the time to explore it feels meaningful, fun, and rewarding - like a quest or story line focused on the city. Ultima VII definitely seems aware of this, as each city does have it's own unique elements and quests, but the quality is all over the place.
There's definitely some really interesting towns. Skara Brae has a really unique theme, and the main quest that takes place there manages to tell an interesting and touching story. Yew is also really cool, with a vast forest you can explore that is full of interesting things to find. I also quite enjoyed Jhelom's dueling thing. Even some of the smaller places, like the meditation retreat, have some really interesting things to find.
But on the other hand, a lot of the cities just don't feel like they have anything going for them. Terfin and Vesper were the most disappointing since the gargoyles and the issues around them are a major part of the game and the towns didn't really feel like they explored that well enough. Terfin is more or less the same as any other city, with its most prominent issue being the Fellowship, and while Vesper does show the tension between the gargoyles and humans its quest never really went anywhere (maybe I just missed something there, though there didn't seem to be an obvious way to make anything happen). Buccaneer's Den should also be much more interesting considering it's a city full of pirates, and New Magincia is just such a bunch of nothing.
Thankfully the interesting cities more than manage to make up for the boring ones, but it's really disappointing to visit a city that sounds really cool only to discover there's really not much there.
There's definitely some really interesting towns. Skara Brae has a really unique theme, and the main quest that takes place there manages to tell an interesting and touching story. Yew is also really cool, with a vast forest you can explore that is full of interesting things to find. I also quite enjoyed Jhelom's dueling thing. Even some of the smaller places, like the meditation retreat, have some really interesting things to find.
But on the other hand, a lot of the cities just don't feel like they have anything going for them. Terfin and Vesper were the most disappointing since the gargoyles and the issues around them are a major part of the game and the towns didn't really feel like they explored that well enough. Terfin is more or less the same as any other city, with its most prominent issue being the Fellowship, and while Vesper does show the tension between the gargoyles and humans its quest never really went anywhere (maybe I just missed something there, though there didn't seem to be an obvious way to make anything happen). Buccaneer's Den should also be much more interesting considering it's a city full of pirates, and New Magincia is just such a bunch of nothing.
Thankfully the interesting cities more than manage to make up for the boring ones, but it's really disappointing to visit a city that sounds really cool only to discover there's really not much there.
The SNES game shares nothing with this games besides some graphics and names.
As far as Ultima games on consoles goes, I remember 4 on the Sega Master system actually being pretty faithful, only changing conversation topics mechanics. It works like ultima 7 on PC, in which keywords appear in a menu system. Dialog, history, content is intact. Dungeon view is the same as outside views though (over-head), but the layout of the dungeons are the same.
If you want to play one on the SNES though, I believe 6 is the way to go, as opposed to 7.
If you want to play one on the SNES though, I believe 6 is the way to go, as opposed to 7.
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Ultima 4 on SMS is a really great version of the game. The main downside is that you absolutely must learn keywords by talking to people, so if you know something already but haven't heard it in game, then you can't just type it in. The dungeons are also top down, which some people might find less desirable than the first person dungeons in the other versions. But it's got the best graphics of any version, and it has the Ultima 5 targeting system which lets you attack diagonally.
Finally got around to playing again after being absorbed by Into the Breach for the last few days. I finally caved on not looking up some stuff for the sake of my sanity, mainly just weapon + armor values and trainer stats. I liked that you could see the weapon and armor values in a book from the starting area, but it go to the point where I'm acquiring a lot of things not listed on there. Saving and reloading to figure out if a trainer is worth it got annoying as well, and I've found a lot of them at this point.
That said here's my experience playing yesterday:
-Went to Moonglow to get a decent trainer in intelligence/magic points so I might have a chance to cast 7th and 8th circle spells before the end of the game. Still can't cast them but I have about double the mana now.
-I figured out how to get into the orrery room by using
. Made me feel clever even though there's not much in there.
-I also figured out how to free Penumbra which made me feel even more clever. This kind of stuff is what I hoped I get to experience coming into the game.
-Exploration via. Moon Pearl teleportation is starting to wear on me so I went over to the lost river to look for the magic carpet I heard about. I didn't find the carpet (I think I may need to take a ship down into the lakebed), but I did find a cave with giant bees. Which also has
-I also find a dude hanging out in a shack by the river named Tseramed. Easy pick for final party member, he's rad.
-I found a tower out here that seemingly had no entrance. I hugged the walls to see if I could find a door on the western and northern sides and I managed to catch a glimpse of the top floor. I once again used
, and it worked. I got attacked by a weird ghost thing and then was treated to the sweet loot on the top floor.
-Also randomly got attacked by a wyvern or dragon out here, took him down pretty quick though. It might be time to take on that dungeon I saw at the beginning of the game.
Really appreciating the exploration aspect now even though there's a lot of nothing forests everywhere, luckily you can zig zag your way through land pretty quickly.
That said here's my experience playing yesterday:
-Went to Moonglow to get a decent trainer in intelligence/magic points so I might have a chance to cast 7th and 8th circle spells before the end of the game. Still can't cast them but I have about double the mana now.
-I figured out how to get into the orrery room by using
telekinesis on the drawbridge lever
-I also figured out how to free Penumbra which made me feel even more clever. This kind of stuff is what I hoped I get to experience coming into the game.
-Exploration via. Moon Pearl teleportation is starting to wear on me so I went over to the lost river to look for the magic carpet I heard about. I didn't find the carpet (I think I may need to take a ship down into the lakebed), but I did find a cave with giant bees. Which also has
flight of the bumblebees playing and a caveman/cavewoman couple with questionable relations to each other.
-I found a tower out here that seemingly had no entrance. I hugged the walls to see if I could find a door on the western and northern sides and I managed to catch a glimpse of the top floor. I once again used
telekinesis on the lever I could see up there
-Also randomly got attacked by a wyvern or dragon out here, took him down pretty quick though. It might be time to take on that dungeon I saw at the beginning of the game.
Really appreciating the exploration aspect now even though there's a lot of nothing forests everywhere, luckily you can zig zag your way through land pretty quickly.
Is it possible to gather reagents in the world or can they only be purchased from merchants?
Also, is the Pick usable on anything?
Also, is the Pick usable on anything?
I've found them out in the world but they seem pretty rare. If you get close to running out I'd just buy more.
Was wondering the same thing about the pick.
Well, not everyone in the party is from another world! I think it's just a gameplay convention, but the particular dialogue sequence was really funny in context.
Well, maybe the Avatar irradiates WoD Mutations, that's why Spark can be revived and not his father!
(There's no actual reason)
Spark is definitely some kind of abnormal lifeform. He's a tiny baby boy with rosy red cheeks, but he has stats comparable to the Warriors of Destiny. He's also level 1, whereas the Warriors of Destiny are level 3. He also starts out with 3 training points, whereas the Warriors of Destiny have to level before they can get stronger. I'm pretty sure a maxed out Spark is the strongest party member you can possibly have, outside of the Avatar.
Maybe Spark is a descendant of Dupre from his mother side, so he has the blood of a Warrior of Destiny.
I'm sure that Dupre has a ton of descendants running around Britannia, not knowing about the fantastical powers they have.
Started this up.
Oh boy. You can search practically everything huh.
Guess I'll need to check every room and house I come across so I don't miss anything important.
Does stealing have any negative effect in this game?
Oh boy. You can search practically everything huh.
Guess I'll need to check every room and house I come across so I don't miss anything important.
Does stealing have any negative effect in this game?
If the Avatar steals your party members will bail on you.
If your party members steal, it's open season.
I've played a bit more of the main quest, and it's probably my least favorite part of the game right now. The Skara Brae part was pretty cool, with a unique setting and a nice stand-alone story, but after that things haven't been very fun. First there was the storehouse with some really annoying puzzles, followed by a bad dungeon, which was followed by fetch quests that require back tracking (which is just about the worst thing in open world games with a focus on exploration). The main quest seems to be ignoring everything I like about the game - the exploration, finding interesting things, talking to people and solving their small problems - and is instead focusing on things that just aren't very fun.
Oh, and the writing between the main quest is so different from the side-quests that it's like I'm playing two different games. In the side quests you have:
You know, small-scale, almost silly but still surprisingly human issues. Meanwhile, the main quest has you:
I don't know about other people, but I vastly prefer the former. Now, as far as I understand it, the main quest things are sort of long-time features of the series so they probably aren't all that jarring to people who've played the it from the start. But as I haven't really done that it's a bit weird to me just how different the two sides are.
Oh, and the writing between the main quest is so different from the side-quests that it's like I'm playing two different games. In the side quests you have:
- Rescuing a man who stole some apples to feed his starving family
- Solving some small-scale crimes
- A woman who wants to find out how her father died
- A man who accidentally stole a flag and is now facing a duel to the death over it
- A man wanting to find a unicorn in order to get married
- Communicating with messengers from the alternate dimension of Xorinia about how your entire plane of existence is going to be destroyed
- Meeting the Time Lord and talking about the same thing
- Talking about how a being from another dimension is behind all of it
- Destroying some extremely sci-fi looking generators
I don't know about other people, but I vastly prefer the former. Now, as far as I understand it, the main quest things are sort of long-time features of the series so they probably aren't all that jarring to people who've played the it from the start. But as I haven't really done that it's a bit weird to me just how different the two sides are.
Well, combat is no longer an issue. I've broken the game, lol. Now I can explore, do quests and stea... I mean admire fancy items in the world.
Oh man, I forgot all about the
Time Lord.
It's worth noting that the sci-fi looking generators form the shape of the old Electronic Arts logo. Elizabeth & Abraham are also a reference. I guess the people at Origin Systems accurately identified Electronic Arts as a source of clandestine global evil.
Heh, that's pretty clever. It's such a subtle reference that I'd never realize it by myself, but it totally makes sense.
Isn't that pretty much every RPG ever, though? The main quest being epic, world changing stuff while the main character does some small, personal sidequests is a genre staple. Hell it may even have been originated by Ultima since it was such a huge inspiration for CRPGs and JRPGs both.
EA burned Origin *hard* in the mid '80s. Like Bethesda-type scummy tactics that would have intentionally bankrupted the company. If it wasn't for Broderbund coming to an assist then Origin may not have survived.*
*I learned this last week thanks to the utterly fantastic link to the Digital Antiquarian earlier in the thread. You can read about Origin and EA here:
Holy crap there is a book that provides justification for why there are no doors on the north and west sides of houses!
My issue isn't really that the main quest is epic and world changing while the side quests aren't. Because yeah, that's pretty common (I wouldn't say that it's pretty much every RPG ever, but it's common enough), although games seem to be getting quite better at offering really meaty and meaningful side quests lately (Divinity: Original Sin 2 is one great example). My issues are that:
- The style of writing between the two is drastically different. The personal tone which makes the NPCs feel like real people is much less prominent in the main quest, and that's a real shame because I really liked that part of the game. Even with the things the main quest is focusing on I feel like it could still have been retained quite well.
- There's nothing really connecting most side quests to the main quests, which causes the main quest and the side quests to feel like two different games. In other games, even if the side quests are smaller in scale they still relate to the main quest in some way. Like if you come to a village suffering from some evil threat, where the main quest is to resolve that threat and the side quests are about solving peoples' small issues caused by that threat - things like that. Basically, the side quests and the main quest often tackle similar things, but in Ultima VII that's not really the case. The only thing that connects the two in Ultima VII is
The Fellowship. But even then they go from being a greedy, selfish, but relatively harmless cult in the side quests to trying to destroy the world in the main quest.
- The gameplay is is completely different in the main quest, pretty much completely ignoring exploration in favor of a more linear story. This is admittedly something pretty much every open-world game struggles with, but some do handle it pretty well. Like the newer Elder Scrolls games - they have a terrible main quest, but they fully realize that and put 99% of the focus on the side quests. Or even better, Divinity: Original Sin 2, which intertwines the main quests with the side quests to such an extent that pretty much every side quest contributes something to the main story, and the main quest pretty much just has you exploring the world and doing side quests.
I agree with pretty much all of this. Incidentally, this thread inspired me to start up Ultima VII-2: Serpent Isle, and so far the critical path feels like the sidequests in Ultima VII-1 but expanded in scope. The main quest involves going into town, getting to know its residents and social structure and their relations to each other, and using that knowledge to resolve the conflicts therein. This was the best part of Ultima VII-1, but as you say, there it was almost entirely relegated to short sidequests, whereas in VII-2 it seems to be the main event.
People have said that VII-2 cuts back on exploration and is more linear, but so far it still feels more open-ended than most modern RPGs. I suppose you can't really go anywhere right from the beginning like with VII-1, but you won't be getting quest markers telling you where to go and whom to talk to, that's for sure.
How far are you in SI? It has far fewer towns (however they are generally of higher quality than BG towns) and they are front loaded in the game. I love SI even more than BG but the game is much more concerned with the big epic, world shaking events than BG.
Personally I think that SI's exploration is better than BG. With BG you exploring a world that is largely already completely explored and developed. There isn't much sense of discovering the unknown, especially if you played IV, V, or VI.
SI really nails the sense of not knowing what to expect as the game progresses. In the second half of the game I felt "off the map", so to speak, in a way that I never did in BG.
What SI lacks, compared to BG, is indeed non-linearity. It doesn't offer the methods of transportation you get in BG and there is very clearly defined flow to plot progress that is linked to world discovery. It's more "wide linear" than open world.
Not that far at all, I think. I just finished up the Monitor quest line and got the Hem of Courage, and now I'm on my way to Moonshade. I'm a bit apprehensive to hear that all the towns are at the beginning, as exploring a new town is my favorite part of the games!
Well, the map will pretty much show you that there are only
3
So...
Like 80% of my play through has been going into people's homes and stealing food, gold and coins.
Is there any way to raise my max inventory?
Like 80% of my play through has been going into people's homes and stealing food, gold and coins.
Is there any way to raise my max inventory?
I'm really getting into this despite not having much play time. I can kind of imagine mapping out Britain on graph paper if I was a kid. Currently I'm making notes in the (modded? ) notebook that comes in-game, so I am manually adding quests/side quests by hand just like Elder Scrolls games add them automatically!
The music is driving me nuts.
It's the perfect game to play in a window on screen while I look at something else , so thanks for creating this.
I was wondering the same thing, pretty sure that I sold the gem by accident to a shop -dOH! hope it's not important.
The music is driving me nuts.
It's the perfect game to play in a window on screen while I look at something else , so thanks for creating this.
Does anyone know what this gem is for? I believe it was given to me by Lord British. When I use it on the Isle of Fire, it disappears (breaks?).
I was wondering the same thing, pretty sure that I sold the gem by accident to a shop -dOH! hope it's not important.
Usually it means you opened up a a wine barrel and it's splattering on the floor.
Ah makes sense! I stopped getting warned as I walked away and just got people whining about food :).
...
Visited Batlin...I think I might need to join the Fellowship to check out that meditation retreat? Not sure. I don't want to join those people--they are creepy--but I also want to deal with Batlin before heading out on one of the various quests I now have taking me away from the city (seems I have reason to go to Terfin and Cove, that my ship is in Vesper, and that I want to see what is going on at that meditation retreat).
I also probably should look around more for news on the Crown Jewel but seems it just didn't go to Britain after all? That and if I see anything related to the theft in Paws. I think I'll look into those before deciding on Batlin.
...
Visited Batlin...I think I might need to join the Fellowship to check out that meditation retreat? Not sure. I don't want to join those people--they are creepy--but I also want to deal with Batlin before heading out on one of the various quests I now have taking me away from the city (seems I have reason to go to Terfin and Cove, that my ship is in Vesper, and that I want to see what is going on at that meditation retreat).
I also probably should look around more for news on the Crown Jewel but seems it just didn't go to Britain after all? That and if I see anything related to the theft in Paws. I think I'll look into those before deciding on Batlin.
Not really much of a spoiler but I recommend that you
go ahead and ask Batlin to join the Fellowship. He will send you on an errand in the same direction as Cove.
Ah. I didn't join the fellowship yet.
I got a boat...and started pillaging.
Uhm...boat travel is...uh interesting.
I got a boat...and started pillaging.
Uhm...boat travel is...uh interesting.
Don't blame you, those guys are creepy imo. A bit of a shock coming from the manual where the only weird thing was Batlin's hatred of healers. Definitely a case of hearing about someone from their own (proselytizing) mouth and then seeing them in context and getting a different impression.
Also interesting to see his lip-service to the Avatar and the virtues (in the manual) mostly slide away when talking to him in game. (Fellowship's beliefs being additive and not in competition to basically stopping just short of calling the virtues useless).
In fact, I think this is probably the neatest individual thing about the game so far, so I'm glad I took the advice to read the manual.
I like the NPCs, although tbh the towns are a bit overwhelming so far :P. Haven't gotten into a battle yet, nor solved any of the mysteries I've encountered.
I'll probably join before leaving Britain. I've called up a map and am looking at where I haven't been in the city yet and hanging out at the pub during dinnertime catching people I've missed. It looks like the pub isn't an inn, so might go back to Paws for the night. Still need to talk to the mayor and want to talk to the guy at the docks again without my fellowship thing on. (didn't realize I was wearing it; thought it was just in my inventory and causing those reactions).
Edit: Just heard the rest of Mack's story after visiting his farm. Lol. It seems I need to find Lock Lake at some point.
Also interesting to see his lip-service to the Avatar and the virtues (in the manual) mostly slide away when talking to him in game. (Fellowship's beliefs being additive and not in competition to basically stopping just short of calling the virtues useless).
In fact, I think this is probably the neatest individual thing about the game so far, so I'm glad I took the advice to read the manual.
I like the NPCs, although tbh the towns are a bit overwhelming so far :P. Haven't gotten into a battle yet, nor solved any of the mysteries I've encountered.
I'll probably join before leaving Britain. I've called up a map and am looking at where I haven't been in the city yet and hanging out at the pub during dinnertime catching people I've missed. It looks like the pub isn't an inn, so might go back to Paws for the night. Still need to talk to the mayor and want to talk to the guy at the docks again without my fellowship thing on. (didn't realize I was wearing it; thought it was just in my inventory and causing those reactions).
Edit: Just heard the rest of Mack's story after visiting his farm. Lol. It seems I need to find Lock Lake at some point.
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So apparently I was meant to get a watch from Shamino ? I don't seem to have one and not knowing the time is really annoying - bar maid won't give me a room as she's not working and the cook won't serve me food at the same time : /
How / Where can I get a pocketwatch?
How / Where can I get a pocketwatch?
Shamino is supposed to give it to you, as you said. Have you checked your inventory? There are also some clocks in the world you can check.
He's actually consulting insulting the Avatar in the manual. It's pretty much like modern politics the way its done. My favorite bit is:
"While there have been speculations as to the motivations of the Avatar, there is
insufficient evidence to show that the Avatar was driven to violence by jealousy over
Mondain's romantic involvement with Minax. That being said, such theories are
hereby denounced and should not be given consideration."
If you are playing on Exult press "W" If it displays the time you are good to go. The pocketwatch is tiny and you probably can't find it in the mound of stuff in your pack.
Yeah I thought about that after posting. At the time, having not played any Ultima games, I took that as possibly what actually happened in the games and the manual telling you that with a wink. Having played some of this game...yeah that statement is cast in a different light.
But yeah, I attended their meeting, which was creepy. And then I joined them in the morning :(. I've got a save file before I joined lol, they creep me out that much.
Approximately 40 hours and my adventure is over. One can complain about some things like not all areas being as good as each other and some other stuff, but looking at it as a game from its time, this is a masterpiece. I'm saying this despite not ever liking the combat in the series. The exploration and the NPCs with their behavior. The interactivity with the world. The atmosphere. Even by today's standards, I consider this to be a great game and an all time classic.
I don't think it is best at some important things like combat and the word system, but the joy of playing it makes these things a smaller factor than they should be. One can clearly see that Divinity: Original Sin tried to borrow ideas from this series, and to some extent, it worked.
I don't think it is best at some important things like combat and the word system, but the joy of playing it makes these things a smaller factor than they should be. One can clearly see that Divinity: Original Sin tried to borrow ideas from this series, and to some extent, it worked.