The ESA responds to Hawaii’s loot box regulation proposals

[Deleted member 888]

Update (14/02/18): In response to an inquiry from GamesIndustry.biz, a spokesperson from the Entertainment Software Association defended the industry's record on self-regulation, and drew attention to existing consumer protection systems such as the ESRB classifications and parental controls.

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"As an industry, we take our responsibility to consumers very seriously and continually work to create greater awareness and transparency about the wide range of in-game experiences," said the spokesperson.

"We strongly believe that the industry's robust, self-regulatory efforts remain the most effective way to address these important issues, and that system has a proven and long record of doing so.

"Some consumers and parents may have questions about how loot boxes work, and ESA has demonstrated a commitment to providing information to guide consumers, especially parents, in their purchase decisions."

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Follow up from the state of Hawaii

Update (15/02/18): Hawaiian state representative Sean Quinlan has affirmed support of his colleague's efforts to "curb the proliferation of gambling mechanics in games that are marketed to children", saying he expects other states to follow Hawaii's lead in the "absence of strong signals from the industry that they will deal with the issue internally".

In December last year, Quinlan said that regulation would be a "slippery slope" and that the industry should self-regulate.

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"When I was a teenager, a senator by the name of Joseph Lieberman tried to regulate the content of violent video games," Quinlan told GamesIndustry.biz. "His attempts to conflate video game violence with real world violence did lasting damage to the image of video games and certain publishers.

"I want to make it clear that we are only regulating a mechanism, not the content of the game itself. I would hope that any further legislation dealing with video games would similarly only look at particular mechanisms and not content itself.

"We live in an age where behavioral psychologists have discovered certain triggers and strategies that are extremely efficient at separating people from their money at a frightening pace. If even mature and intelligent adults are falling victim to these mechanisms, how are kids expected to respond?"

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Source: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...duces-landmark-legislation-against-loot-boxes

ESA continuing to shift the responsibility to self-regulation, when zero self-regulation is happening. The industry and its current regulatory bodies are going to get slammed for this passing the buck and no one doing anything.

 

[Zippo]

Incompetence. Incompetence all around.

 

[Knight613]

If the ESA are going to be this dumb, we may as well just get legislation on it.

 

[Shatty McKracken]

Hot potato, hot potato...whose lap will it fall in?

 

[Deleted member 888]

Incompetence. Incompetence all around.

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The folks in Hawaii are spanking them right now because everyone expected old men in suits not knowing what they are talking about, yet we just get this delivered

"When I was a teenager, a senator by the name of Joseph Lieberman tried to regulate the content of violent video games," Quinlan told GamesIndustry.biz. "His attempts to conflate video game violence with real world violence did lasting damage to the image of video games and certain publishers.

"I want to make it clear that we are only regulating a mechanism, not the content of the game itself. I would hope that any further legislation dealing with video games would similarly only look at particular mechanisms and not content itself.

"We live in an age where behavioral psychologists have discovered certain triggers and strategies that are extremely efficient at separating people from their money at a frightening pace. If even mature and intelligent adults are falling victim to these mechanisms, how are kids expected to respond?"

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Talk about instantly putting down those stupid ass remarks that this is leading to video games being banned. It's been a laser focussed political process so far led by gamers who know what they're talking about.

 

[NameUser]

Well, I don't want to hear them complain when the government steps in. Because it's going to happen at this rate. They know it's wrong, but they won't do shit because they work for the publishers.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Because the game industry has a good history of self-regulation. Such a great history!

 

[Cess007]

"We strongly believe that the industry's robust, self-regulatory efforts remain the most effective way to address these important issues"

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What self-regulatory efforts?

 

[Deleted member 1476]

The folks in Hawaii are spanking them right now because everyone expected old men in suits not knowing what they are talking about, yet we just get this delivered



Talk about instantly putting down those stupid ass remarks that this is leading to video games being banned. It's been a laser focussed political process so far led by gamers who know what they're talking about.

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[TitanicFall]

People say the government should stay out of it and the industry should self-regulate, but look at how we got here.

 

[Mario_Bones]

The ESA only cares about the industry's revenue and public image. They must have been quivering in their boots when the Battlefront 2 controversy happened

 

[Deleted member 5359]

The ESA doesn't exactly strike me as really being up to the task, here. They're a little overmatched in the thinking department.

 

[Deleted member 888]

The ESA doesn't exactly strike me as really being up to the task, here. They're a little overmatched in the thinking department.

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Both the ESA and ESRB don't want to do anything, devs and pubs aren't saying a word about self-regulation, journalists can't get them speaking and gamers have been for months pleading please don't leave this up to the Government to no avail.

I think time might be up.

 

[saenima]

I think it's safe to assume self-regulation is not happening.

 

[Steroyd]

"Some consumers and parents may have questions about how loot boxes work, and ESA has demonstrated a commitment to providing information to guide consumers, especially parents, in their purchase decisions."

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Lmao, YongYea keeps pointing out that under ESRB's own age rating guidelines that simulated gambling should be marked as AO, but the ESRB does fuck all to enforce it.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Lmao, YongYea keeps pointing out that under ESRB's own age rating guidelines that simulated gambling should be marked as AO, but the ESRB does fuck all to enforce it.

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That quote means precisely fuck all. There is currently no information for consumers on loot boxes around games, hence this mess. That is one of the things the State of Hawaii is asking for, labelling on games.

Meanwhile the ESA fire off

and ESA has demonstrated a commitment to providing information to guide consumers, especially parents, in their purchase decisions.

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Whilst doing absolutely nothing to back that up. Say what?

 

[lord_of_flood]

Legislation really is needed at this point, because ESA/ESRB clearly won't do jack about regulating predatory forms of monetization. It's funny that they say that they have shown a "commitment" to guiding consumers and/or parents on purchasing decisions re: loot boxes because it's clear that's the exact thing that's not happening. It's why we need legislation in the first place, because ESA/ESRB won't self-regulate on this issue.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

Both the ESA and ESRB don't want to do anything, devs and pubs aren't saying a word about self-regulation, journalists can't get them speaking and gamers have been for months pleading please don't leave this up to the Government to no avail.

I think time might be up.

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The ESA strikes me as being a relic of the late 90s and early 2000s, when the toughest questions asked of the industry were "OMG HOW AWESOME IS YOUR NEXT GAME GONNA BE?" by a game journalist during a press junket in Vegas or Hawaii.

 

[Arthoneceron]

People will continue to talk about, the ESA and ESRB will continue to deny and do nothing. There is no doubt that the government will act.

Congratulations to EA, their greed really fucked up the things for the whole market.

 

[diablogg]

They are disgusting. Thank god for EA trying to shove all the gross stuff into BF2 and outraging people. The catalyst that got the rest of our world to act.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Hawaii!

 

[Negator]

lol ESRB isn't going to do jack shit, the industry isn't going to self regulate.
They are going to milk the cow for all it's worth before law brings the hammer down on this shit.

 

[Kane1345]

If this is their response then we need legislation.

 

[Deleted member 888]

The ESA strikes me as being a relic of the late 90s and early 2000s, when the toughest questions asked of the industry were "OMG HOW AWESOME IS YOUR NEXT GAME GONNA BE?" by a game journalist during a press junket in Vegas or Hawaii.

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At this stage they just have to be highlighted because for all everyone keeps going on about self-regulation, the two industry bodies within the gaming industry, the ESA and ESRB, are doing absolutely nothing other than piss poor PR releases. So, who is self-regulating? The devs and pubs won't even talk openly to the journalists let alone gamers. None of them have come forward and said from now on we'll display drop odds or anything like that.

So, what's happening everyone? The Government and legislators are making their moves? Where's this self-regulation coming from that is going to happen to stop the Government?

 

[Mona-chan]

The ESA, from what they have said, doesn't seem committed to self-regulating loot boxes, and are complicit with the likes of EA with this. Government regulation will be the last straw.

 

[Dracon]

What draws my attention is that most people hate lootboxes not because of the children and gambling, but because they cant get their own hands in all that beautifull content behind lootboxes.

:(

 

[Deleted member 5359]

At this stage they just have to be highlighted because for all everyone keeps going on about self-regulation, the two industry bodies within the gaming industry, the ESA and ESRB, are doing absolutely nothing other than piss poor PR releases. So, who is self-regulating? The devs and pubs won't even talk openly to the journalists let alone gamers. None of them have come forward and said from now on we'll display drop odds or anything like that.

So, what's happening everyone? The Government and legislators are making their moves? Where's this self-regulation coming from that is going to happen to stop the Government?

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And they were warned about this, too. Multiple times. They chose to ignore the warnings and this is the result. From my perspective, it's overdue.

https://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/maybe-addiction-isn-t-worth-bragging-about/1600-604/

 

[1000% H]

ESA's gonna dig a hole so deep they won't hear the cement truck pull up.

 

[Deleted member 888]

And they were warned about this, too. Multiple times. They chose to ignore the warnings and this is the result. From my perspective, it's overdue.

https://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/maybe-addiction-isn-t-worth-bragging-about/1600-604/

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Hindsight is a bitch.

Although right now the ESA, ESRB and anyone ready to lobby is probably still quietly confident they'll beat all of this. I'm not quite sure, they shouldn't underestimate their "opponents" in the Government ranks in America.

Even in the OP you can see Quinlan first fired off a "self-regulate" warning. They're tieing the noose ever tighter each time they ignore a warning to clean their own house. The senator from the other day even fired a warning shot saying she knew how important this issue was to the industry self-regulating bodies.

This is the ESA's response, pls ask the ESRB, we're already doing what we can. The ESRB says, we can't do anything, ask someone else.

 

[liquidtmd]

"As an industry, we take our responsibility to consumers very seriously and continually work to create greater awareness and transparency about the wide range of in-game experiences," said the spokesperson.

"We strongly believe that the industry's robust, self-regulatory efforts remain the most effective way to address these important issues, and that system has a proven and long record of doing so.

"Some consumers and parents may have questions about how loot boxes work, and ESA has demonstrated a commitment to providing information to guide consumers, especially parents, in their purchase decisions."

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The absolute EMPTIEST of fucking statements. They deserve to have external regulation forced upon them at this point, they are goddamn useless

Any journalists who visit GAF - please, don't let this issue die. These kind of empty buzz word laden statements just don't cut it.

EA - thank you. By releasing an exaggerated parody of a loot box release, you accelerated this conversation. (And its nothing personal either, I actually kinda like where BF2 is right now)

Edit: not GAF, here obviously. Was just talking to someone about GAF

 

[Deleted member 1849]

I think it's safe to assume self-regulation is not happening.

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Self regulation is and always has been a pipe dream.

The ESA is also quite literally the lobbying arm for the industry which profits from this shit, of course they would deflect.

 

[Belmont]

Government regulation can't come soon enough. Normally I'd hate the idea of government getting involved in our industry but the industry has decided there's no end to what mechanisms they won't exploit to milk money from consumers so I say -- fuck 'em.

 

[Mr_F_Snowman]

Haha love it - all the legislators need to do is get some media attention focused on those EA/Acti patents showing the brutal, unethical routes these publishers are taking in order to psychologically manipulate children and they are going to get absolutely savaged. They'll be able to pass whatever legislation they want and the publishers are going to end up looking like absolute monsters. Ahhhhhh beautiful

 

[caff!!!]

funny how self regulation disappears when there's money to be made

 

[Phife Dawg]

I can't stop laughing at "robust self regulating efforts". I mean sure it's just PR speak but how can you say/write that with a straight face? Anyways this industry has it coming, better milk that cow dry before more governments step in.

 

[Beartruck]

Yeah, if the ESA is up against guys like Quinlan, they're in real trouble. He's not some old man in government who doesn't understand anything, he knows the industry and exactly how their claims are bullshit.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Does the ESA basically think that if they do this long enough...

The government will go away?

 

[Raw64life]

"the industry's robust, self-regulatory efforts"

 

[Deleted member 888]

Yeah, if the ESA is up against guys like Quinlan, they're in real trouble. He's not some old man in government who doesn't understand anything, he knows the industry and exactly how their claims are bullshit.

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I think that is what is catching some off guard here, gamers leading this means they know what they're talking about. Quinlan pops up here



From that video I just seen an interview linked with Chris I've never seen before, so this might be a fun watch for everyone (from December)



Jack Thompson these two are not.

 

[Teeth]

I would imagine that the reason they aren't going about self regulating (at this point) is that they don't materially believe that government regulation will pass.

 

[Bhonar]

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who the heck is this?

is this even from video games, or real sportscaster??

 

[Vinc]

Yeah, I gotta say that response from Hawaii that you quoted sure looks a lot better than the ESA's. Seems like they were far from prepared.

The folks in Hawaii are spanking them right now because everyone expected old men in suits not knowing what they are talking about, yet we just get this delivered



Talk about instantly putting down those stupid ass remarks that this is leading to video games being banned. It's been a laser focussed political process so far led by gamers who know what they're talking about.

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This post nails it.

 

[ShinySunny]

ESA tried to pit gamers against Mr. Quinlan.
No one is falling for this.
Even the people who like loot boxes know it is basically gambling but they just don't want to admit it.

Bring back AO rating.
Force retailers to input SSN and ID card in verification system.
Force online merchants to collect SSN/ID Card/verified bank account #.

For effing sake, I can't even buy paint thinner spray without someone asks me for my ID.
But illegal gambling and R18 games can be sold without one?

 

[Ossom]

What are the ESA playing at. All they need to do is say that they or ESRB will require games to display on their packaging that they contain in-game transactions and loot boxes. We all know it's coming so it's better they do it themselves as a show good will, but the ultimate regulation on these is likely going to be more severe.

 

[Deleted member 888]

What are the ESA playing at. All they need to do is say that they or ESRB will require games to display on their packaging that they contain in-game transactions and loot boxes. We all know it's coming so it's better they do it themselves as a show good will, but the ultimate regulation on these is likely going to be more severe.

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Between the ESA and ESRB its turning into quite the embarassment.

 

[mael]

The absolute EMPTIEST of fucking statements. They deserve to have external regulation forced upon them at this point, they are goddamn useless

Any journalists who visit GAF - please, don't let this issue die. These kind of empty buzz word laden statements just don't cut it.

EA - thank you. By releasing an exaggerated parody of a loot box release, you accelerated this conversation. (And its nothing personal either, I actually kinda like where BF2 is right now)

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If they're visiting that place, they're too busy making excuses for GamerGate.
I'd hope that anyone visiting here would know that the issue is one sufficiently talked here to not just drop it.

 

[Gold Arsene]

who the heck is this?

is this even from video games, or real sportscaster??

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Brief glance at YouTube it was apparently from a DOTA tournament.

 

[Deleted member 888]

If they're visiting that place, they're too busy making excuses for GamerGate.
I'd hope that anyone visiting here would know that the issue is one sufficiently talked here to not just drop it.

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lol, I think they meant to say any visiting here. Brian Crecente was speaking a bit earlier, I linked to him above.

Someone like most who'd prefer no Government intervention, but the industry regulatory bodies acting like deers in headlights isn't helping shoo the Government away.

 

[Nanashrew]

I think those that kept saying "let the industry self regulate it" are about to be in for a rude awakening. Because it ain't happening. All this amounted to was ESA saying "we don't need regulation. please leave us alone."

 

[mael]

lol, I think they meant to say any visiting here. Brian Crecente was speaking a bit earlier, I linked to him above.

Someone like most who'd prefer no Government intervention, but the industry regulatory bodies acting like deers in headlights isn't helping shoo the Government away.

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I know ;),
I just wanted to pass on the most discussed topic there.

If the industry didn't want any government to act, they should have self regulated to begin with.
I mean even empty gesture would be better than the nothing we got so far.
They've got no one to blame but themselves.