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The existence Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon baffles me

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
The new Pokemon games are due in a couple of weeks and usually I'm really excited. This time however I'm not really seeing the hype. Not much among here or social media or between any of my Pokemon loving friends IRL. Of course, it's still going to sell well but it's also obvious there's going to be a dip in sales between the this and the last game. How big? Well no one knows but I can imagine it won't be insignificant. There's a few reasons why:
-It's the third (and fourth?!) version of Sun and Moon
-Nintendo's pushing the Switch for black Friday
-It's also not on Switch
-A new Pokemon game on Switch is due out next year undermining this one

I'm baffled why this game exists besides it's probably cheap and easy to reuse Sun and Moon assets, but even then the third version of Pokemon kinda hasn't been a thing because it's becoming pointless to have one. If this game was on Switch it would be huge but as of now, I'm not really feeling it.
 
JohnMichonski

JohnMichonski

Member
Oct 27, 2017
109
Florida
Did you forget Black and White 2? Both were super late DS games, were two sequels, but had new stories and great content. Ultra looks like it'll have better post-game than S/M at least, and a different story. Pokemon is a yearly franchise anyway. This is par for the course.
 
RROCKMAN

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,826
Ummmmm op?
3ds-it-prints-money.gif


Is still in full effect.
 
Gamer @ Heart

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,610
3ds didn't just blip out of existence when the switch was released.

Is it really really that difficult for you to understand why Nintendo would support their older system, which they have on offer for $79 freaking bucks, and has sold in excess of 70 million units, for another year after the switch? Not everyone is just going to jump over to a 300 dollar system so easily. Especially if their buying one for their children.

If anything, the success of the switch proves they made the right call as it didn't need Pokemon year one.

This game will sell as many copies in its first 2 months as there are switches sold in its first 8 months on sale. THAT is why it exists.
 
DGenerator

DGenerator

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,922
Toronto, ON, Canada
Nintendo 3DS sales in fiscal 2017 is up on 2016 yoy, and the series prints enough money to make it a viable decision while not overstuffing holiday 2017 for the Switch.

The decision does anything but baffles me.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
JohnMichonski said:
Did you forget Black and White 2? Both were super late DS games, were two sequels, but had new stories and great content. Ultra looks like it'll have better post-game than S/M at least, and a different story. Pokemon is a yearly franchise anyway. This is par for the course.
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I feel like B&W2 being billed as a sequel and the 3DS being slow to take off helped it a lot more than it would.

TheGreatLugia said:
I believe Nintendo has backpedaled on Pokemon Switch releasing next year. I'm guessing late 2019 at the soonest if development began after Sun and Moon were finished.
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It's very clearly being set up as the Switch's big holiday game next year like Mario was. Everyone knows Pokemon Switch is going to be huge.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
I'm not surprised that they're on 3DS, but I do think there should be a Switch version too.
 
Neapolitan

Neapolitan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
340
Indonesia
Do keep in mind that US/UM is playground for the newer staff to try out new idea and improve their skills while the senior staff is building Pokemon Switch. These younger staffs are essential for longevity of the franchise.
 
jwhit28

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,052
Sun and Moon sold close to 16 million copies. Only 7.63 million people currently own a Switch.
 
Tidalwaves

Tidalwaves

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,551
Yup. Bought every game and will likely buy this, but I'm missing that spark of excitement. I seem to be the only one of my friend group that will pick this up. And it's begrudgingly.
 

diverit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
I wasn't really into Sun/Moon. I haven't even finished it. US/UM being a "retelling" isn't that exciting either. It's a hard pass for me.
 
Nick C

Nick C

Member
Oct 25, 2017
491
MT
TheGreatLugia said:
I believe Nintendo has backpedaled on Pokemon Switch releasing next year. I'm guessing late 2019 at the soonest if development began after Sun and Moon were finished.
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Is there a source for this? I figured Pokemon Switch was in early development during the production of Sun and Moon, if the Pokemon models in-game are anything to go by.
 
NameUser

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,018
Will be the first Pokemon game I don't buy. After getting the Switch, I have a hard time going back to the 3DS. Also the game looks uninspiring to me.
 
klastical

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,712
This happens every time when nintendo releases a new handheld and people always act surprised. Black and white 2 came out after the 3ds was released. Emerald came out right before the ds in Japan and several months after the ds was released in america. Crystal released a little bit after the gba did in america. Point is gamefreak wants to milk as much money out of the old system before moving onto the next. This will happen yet again whenever the switch 2 or whatever is released.
 
Echo

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
It's nothing new for the Pokemon series. I'm hyped for Ultra moon and don't have a Switch yet.

Sun/Moon has sold over 14 million copies, more than the entire Switch install base atm. I don't understand why it's confusing that Nintendo would try to capitalize on that again. S/M are also the fastest selling Nintendo games in NA sales history so... ya know.
 
KushalaDaora

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
$$$

NameUser said:
Will be the first Pokemon game I don't buy. After getting the Switch, I have a hard time going back to the 3DS. Also the game looks uninspiring to me.
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I'm tempted to buy US/UM seeing how it seems have some neat/worthwhile addition. Alas I rather save the money for Switch, or Monster Hunter Stories.
 
Crayolan

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,767
Every generation has a "third" (not always a single game) version which takes the base game and upgrades it. They did it with Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum. Then they took that concept and changed it up to make a sequel with Black 2/White 2. Gen 6 was missing a third version, but Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon are going back to that original concept.

Why does it exist? Because plenty of people will pay for an improved version of existing games, and a new version may entice people who have yet to buy the original versions to make the jump.

Don't think an improved version of a game is worth another $40? Don't worry, you're not alone. 3rd versions always sell significantly less than the originals. But a lot of people do think it's worth the money and this game exists for them.
 
Toxi

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon have some really cool stuff going on. Battle Agency is Battle Factory all over again. Team Rainbow Rocket is great fanservice. New Pokemon, including a new Poison type legendary.

But yeah, I know what you mean about the games lacking hype. Maybe it's because I have less money to buy games with, but I'm not chomping at the bit to spend 40 dollars again for seventh generation Pokemon.
 
Stencil

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,379
USA
Does it really baffle you that much? Pokemon is a money cow. It's 2017 and the 3DS is on the out, so it makes sense, to me at least, that they would want to cash in as much as possible before shifting to Switch entirely.
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
Pokémon has typically been late to the party as far as new systems go (see B2/W2). Plus we don't know if Gen 8 will be out in 2018 (hence the "2018 or Later" listing). The sales that TPC & Game Freak are looking for can't be obtained on the Switch just yet.

US/UM are basically the 3DS's send-off games.
 
Shayla

Shayla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
162
TheGreatLugia said:
I believe Nintendo has backpedaled on Pokemon Switch releasing next year. I'm guessing late 2019 at the soonest if development began after Sun and Moon were finished.
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In the investors notes they state Pokemon Switch is 2018 or later. Implying they plan to get it out for 2018 but they aren't sure if they can make it. It is for sure planned for 2018.

Nick C said:
Is there a source for this? I figured Pokemon Switch was in early development during the production of Sun and Moon, if the Pokemon models in-game are anything to go by.
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The "HD" Pokemon models every says is proof that its far in development did not happen with S/M. It happened with X/Y which was released in 2013 and had nothing to do with already having a Switch game in development and everything to do future proofing themselves way back then.

On topic: USUM seems really pointless. Another remake, or just no game would've been better. I hate to be that person: But its 2017 and USUM should've been $10-$20 DLC for S/M instead of a whole new game, making you restart all your progress over again. Third versions are severily outdated and come off as pure greed.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
matrix-cat said:
I'm 100% positive this game will sell more copies on 3DS than there are Switches in the world.
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I actually kind of doubt it. I think it'll sell at most half of what Sun and Moon did. And even then this argument is pointless anyway. 3DS is near end of life Switch is getting all the press and has the room to grow and Pokemon has always been a system seller.
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,599
They'll do fine so far, I'm pretty sure it was very cheap to make and it buys them time to actually work on Pokemon Neon Joy-cons and Pokemon Gray Joy-cons.
 
jwhit28

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,052
Spyder_Monkey said:
I actually kind of doubt it. I think it'll sell at most half of what Sun and Moon did. And even then this argument is pointless anyway. 3DS is near end of life Switch is getting all the press and has the room to grow and Pokemon has always been a system seller.
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Half of Sun and Moon would still be more than current Switches in bought. Pokemon won't be any less of a system seller a year or two from now.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
USUM exist because gen 7 isn't done and Pokemon Switch isn't ready for release. This is pretty standard for Pokemon.

Spyder_Monkey said:
I feel like B&W2 being billed as a sequel and the 3DS being slow to take off helped it a lot more than it would.


It's very clearly being set up as the Switch's big holiday game next year like Mario was. Everyone knows Pokemon Switch is going to be huge.
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I don't really know where you are getting that from.
Maintenance said:
It now has a "2018 or later"

The game isn't hitting 2018.
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The game was always 2018 or later.
 

Deleted member 1476

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Oct 25, 2017
10,449
Spyder_Monkey said:
I actually kind of doubt it. I think it'll sell at most half of what Sun and Moon did. And even then this argument is pointless anyway. 3DS is near end of life Switch is getting all the press and has the room to grow and Pokemon has always been a system seller.
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US/UM not reaching 7m would be a disaster, there's a 1% chance of that happening.

About being a system seller, you can't sell what you don't have. It doesn't matter that Pokémon could move stock if they wouldn't be able to match the demand on the factories.
 
ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Spyder_Monkey said:
I actually kind of doubt it. I think it'll sell at most half of what Sun and Moon did. And even then this argument is pointless anyway. 3DS is near end of life Switch is getting all the press and has the room to grow and Pokemon has always been a system seller.
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Yea, and they are making Pokemon for the switch. They aren't making this for the switch, it's just another version of the same engine as sun and moon. Why would they bother last second porting it?
 
TheBeardedOne

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
It's kind of surprising there's not much buzz here about it. I'd almost forgotten they were coming out.

Honestly, I don't know what to think. From what I've heard, I guess it's a new story and a new campaign with an alternate dimension or something? I'm going to wait and read up on it to see if it'll be worth getting down the road. The completionist inside of me wants to experience the full thing, but I'm also kind of sick of Pokemon as well. Playing through Pokemon Sun became somewhat of a slog, especially as it dragged on and on at the end. The characters were annoyingly wordy.
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
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yuoke said:
Yea, and they are making Pokemon for the switch. They aren't making this for the switch, it's just another version of the same engine as sun and moon. Why would they bother last second porting it?
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To be fair, the chances of Gen 8 using Gen 6/7's engine (albeit on steroids) are pretty decent if Game Freak wants to get Gen 8 on the Switch by Holiday 2018.
 
ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
Neoxon said:
To be fair, the chances of Gen 8 using Gen 6/7's engine (albeit on steroids) are pretty decent if Game Freak wants to get Gen 8 on the Switch by Holiday 2018.
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That's more than extremely unlikely. For one, gamefreak isn't known to rush things or go by Nintendo's timeline. They go on their own beat. If they want, they'll release it in spring 2019.

The switch is also an entirely new infrastructure from the 3ds, even more different than the ds to 3ds...plus I doubt they would want their first "console" mainline games to be just an upgraded 3ds engine. Gen 6 was a new engine from gen 5, same with gen 4 to 3, etc.
 
Garf02

Garf02

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,420
TheBeardedOne said:
It's kind of surprising there's not much buzz here about it. I'd almost forgotten they were coming out.

Honestly, I don't know what to think. From what I've heard, I guess it's a new story and a new campaign with an alternate dimension or something? I'm going to wait and read up on it to see if it'll be worth getting down the road. The completionist inside of me wants to experience the full thing, but I'm also kind of sick of Pokemon as well. Playing through Pokemon Sun became somewhat of a slog, especially as it dragged on and on at the end. The characters were annoyingly wordy.
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is just a re-release so Nintendo is now heavy marketing it, also is pretty much just a training cause the ones making em are new comer, core older team already moved on to Pokemon Switch
 
gigaslash

gigaslash

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Oct 28, 2017
1,122
Can someone elaborate pls what Ultras are? Are they Black&White2-style sequels or a Platinum-style upgraded version?
 
Maxina

Maxina

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,308
Shayla said:
In the investors notes they state Pokemon Switch is 2018 or later. Implying they plan to get it out for 2018 but they aren't sure if they can make it. It is for sure planned for 2018.


The "HD" Pokemon models every says is proof that its far in development did not happen with S/M. It happened with X/Y which was released in 2013 and had nothing to do with already having a Switch game in development and everything to do future proofing themselves way back then.

On topic: USUM seems really pointless. Another remake, or just no game would've been better. I hate to be that person: But its 2017 and USUM should've been $10-$20 DLC for S/M instead of a whole new game, making you restart all your progress over again. Third versions are severily outdated and come off as pure greed.
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It exists because Pokemon mainline games sell millions. The new pokemon forms/ ultra beasts/characters,etc, are ways to construct new merchandise, plushies, clothing, trading cards, etc. It prints money. It's not greed, it's business.
 
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