The Fall and Rise of the Xbox One

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Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,971
I get that it’s subjective but I’m reading this like:

XBox has best games if you ignore the best games.

The “best games” aren’t really the best games because reviewers this or reviewers that.



At the end of the day it reads like a bunch of made up excuses to discount everything and push your narrative, but hey, you do you.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,204
Well gotta respect that he's getting paid to write his drivel now. Terrible article though.

Xbox did great turning round their entire division around though, it's in a great place to return to the pre-2010 greatness, but even still they've really not done enough for me and I very much deeply regret buying a XB1, so much so I'll possibly never buy a Xbox console again, I got so little out of it, it was a complete waste of money on my part.
 

Shpeshal Ed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,555
Melbourne, Australia
sony has had a long history of backward compatibility since before the ps3. .
They had PS1 BC on PS2 and PS3.

Then they had PS2 BC on launch PS3s....in the US.

I wouldn't personally classify that as a "long history" particularly given my post was all from the last decade. Which is a decently long time in an industry that's really only 35 years old or so.

PlayStation as a brand is about 24 years old? So...for 10 of those 24 years they basically told backwards compatibility to get fucked. Then their own install base told them they'd rather re-buy their old games numerous times as opposed to simply having access to games they had already paid for.

Again, on evidence, backwards compatibility definitely leans more on the "not likely" side of the fence if we're being honest here.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,209
I want to believe you're right. I do. But I don't think Sony will do this. They have made a lot of money making people rebuy remastered games. I don't think Backward Compatibility is a technical hurdle, because if it was, we'd have all our PS1 classics on the PS4. I'd kill to play MGS on my PS4 instead of jeopardizing my PS3, you know? I don't want a YLOD. They've rereleased Jak twice now instead of going "well, if you own Jak digitally on PS3, we're giving it to you free on PS4." Tons of stuff like that. I'd love to get Persona 3 FES on my PS4, and the PS4 HAS a PS2 emulator, but Sony hasn't just said "hey, every PS2 game you owned on PS3 can be played on PS4 now, have fun." They consistently make us repurchase those games.

So like, I'm really, really doubtful that Sony wants to do BC. I think they'll only do it if they start losing badly, just like Microsoft did.
I like how you phrased that as [making people] - not once to open your argument, but twice to close it - and that kinda falls in line with what I'm reading above from other posters, about certain calculated efforts. Sony didn't make anyone re-buy any games, like how said you had the option to fire up your PS3 (as if it's a legitimate "jeopardy" lol, did you really just want to squeeze a reference to YLOD in there?).

What I think is the reality is that Sony will make more money on being able to sell additional PS4 content to PS5 gamers, and retain income from massive audiences on massive service-based games, than they will with a handful of remasters. I don't think Gravity Rush Remastered or God of War III Remastered did too hot. Other than The Last of Us Remastered, I can't think of a single Sony-published remaster that knocked it out of the park for them. Can you?

You say you're doubtful that Sony wants to do BC, but I don't think you'll take issue with all the Xbox fans using "but that decision was made by the Microsoft of 2013" and all that jazz, would you? Sony could be planning BC in a big way for PS5 whether it's because John Kodera wants it, or Sony has had a change in priorities and wants PS5 as a fresh start, and you wouldn't know it. You've been hopeful for Xbox to change into what it is now, for almost a whole generation. I'd hope you would offer the same degree of patience to Sony. The company that doesn't prioritise BC today, might be the one that does the opposite a couple of years from now.
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,675
Some of that article would get a mod warning for console wars if it was just a random post on here
 

Bundy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,532
What I think is the reality is that Sony will make more money on being able to sell additional PS4 content to PS5 gamers, than they will with a handful of remasters. I don't think Gravity Rush Remastered or God of War III Remastered did too hot. Other than The Last of Us Remastered, I can't think of a single Sony-published remaster that knocked it out of the park for them. Can you?
You just wait! If the Bluepoint Demon's Souls Remaster is really happening..... ;)
can you bookmark me too. add me to favorites, and tweet this out.
 

rokkerkory

Member
Jun 14, 2018
3,494
1X is amazing machine. Glad MS made it and also bought many studios. This gen belongs to Sony but MS has good momentum for next-gen.
 

>__

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
474
So a game like TLOU, with bad gameplay and repetitive game design is going to win awards that a game like Forza Horizon 4, possibly the best racing game of all time, could never compete for.
What kind of response is this?

That isn't why people have an issue with some of your content and past posts, it's because you have a history of posting such slanted, misleading or downright factually incorrect things to push a pro Microsoft and anti-Sony agenda.

Eg you'll claim Sony has the worst first party meta averages of all the platforms when factually that is incorrect several years on the trot, and then ignore the posts that correct you on this.

You'll claim its predominantly Sony pushing out CGI trailers at conferences as one of the reasons you prefer Microsoft showings, and then when people highlight how Microsoft actually showed just as many if not more CGI trailers, you'll also ignore that post.

You'll state that you prefer Microsoft because they only show stuff that is coming out soon at conferences, and when someone responds with a bunch of games they'd shown years in advance, many that were cancelled, you'll ignore that too.

Then there's tweets like these.



And these are all just a few examples. It isn't like people's skepticism of your journalistic or other content is completely misplaced or aimless.

Edit: And I didn't go digging through either, just Goggle searched DocSeuss Twitter Sony and these were some of the very first tweets that came up lol.
This explains everything......wow
 

ginger ninja

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,548
The Xbox One is the best pure console on the market right now
Way to start the article/thread there bud. It's great console and Microsoft has been killing it since the initial missteps but..no, that's false and subjective at best. The UI alone makes me not want to start my xbox.
 

Tyaren

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,686
I think the point here is that both platforms pushed CGI trailers in those early years.
What does he mean by CGI trailers anyway? Pre-rendered? Like that infamous Killzone trailer back in 2005? That would be a completely false statement or more frankly a blatant lie. If he is referring to realtime scenes or cut together realtime scenes from games, where's the problem? Every game developer predominantly shows off their games in trailers like that. Playing game demos live on conferences is comparatively rare. And even then, Sony actually did that a lot with UC4, HZD, GoW, Detroit, Spider-Man, GoT...
 
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Oct 28, 2017
151
....snip.....



I didn't want to straight up get into console war territory in my piece. Like, yeah, the "PS3 has no games" meme was real, and Xbox was bringing the heat by 2006, but this isn't a piece about Sony, it's a piece about Microsoft and why they made the decisions they did. I tried to keep competitor talk to just "why Microsoft made specific decisions" and then to contrast the reveals of the two consoles.

I'm really sad that my line "the PS4 is the most basic bitch console" got cut tho.



....snip....

You didn't want to get into console ware territory, but your "Sad" they cut your line that "PS4 is the most basic bitch console"??? WTF does that even mean? It is just a stretch trying to explain why Microsoft made the decisions they did without any background into those decisions and just trying to connect dots. It's just a biased opinion piece really! Kudos for getting it published. It was entertaining!
 

famikon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,401
ベラルーシ
I love my PS4 for a bunch of shit that isn't Sony-published, like Godzilla, Yakuza (now it's on the PC tho! hooray!), and Digimon. It's still a basic bitch console. It does nothing unique or interesting except maybe VR, but like, the PC stomps that.
Another gem :)
It's like saying that Panasonic 3DO is the best console of early 90s, because Sega MD and SNES were "a basic bitch consoles" and they did "nothing unique or interesting".
 

OrbitalBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,333
I'm quite happy with my basic bitch console and my tablet with a TV-out, thank you very much.

Xbox has improved a fair bit over the course of this generation, but I wouldn't hesitate to sell my Xbox One over my PS4 or Switch if I had to make a choice. Next generation might very well be different, but I have been incredibly disappointed in Xbox this cycle. And a powerful mid-gen refresh has done nothing to change that.
 

Kyry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
460
I find it hard to fault both equally for CGI trailers for distant games when Microsoft alone canceled several of the games on display.

We got trailers for Phantom Dust, Scalebound and Fable Legends, all games that never came out.
Not to mention titles like Project Spark that were discontinued after release.

OP mentions that Microsoft no longer does this, and we are all better for it. But the both sides angle is BS.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,971
User warned: Platform warring
OP is right, MS so unique.

What you gonna say huh? We get Gears, Forza and Halo all the time? They bring those new IP on the regular unlike Sony who isn’t unique at all.

Just you wait until you see the power of the cloud. It’s coming. Gonna show you things you never thought possible.

Edit - Shouldn’t say OP. I meant the person who wrote the article.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,209
While the PS5 should logically play PS4 games, nothing Sony has done in the last decade suggests that will be the case

- Removed PS2 BC from the PS3
-Made us re-buy digital PS2 purchases from PS3 on PS4
- Release a SHIT TONNE of successful remasters and remakes which is the market telling them they’d rather re-buy old games
- Really ramp up the number PS4 games on PS Now
- Publicly shit on old games

I’m not sure why so many people are so confident it’ll happen when recent history suggests it won’t. I’m not saying it won’t, I’m just saying I’m not overly confident it will.
These are some fair points, but most of it is circumstantial and doesn't really build much of a case.

- PS2 was removed as a necessary measure due to bleeding money on initial PS3 hardware.
- Sony didn't make anyone buy squat.
- Sony has had far fewer successful remasters this gen than last, and I think that is a potential catalyst for change.
- If Sony wants to compete with MS adding PS4 games to Now is a good move going into next-gen.
- Is this the Jim Ryan comparing PS1/PS2 Gran Turismo games to PS3/PS4 on a visual level?

I'll refer to my previous comment for why it's in Sony's best interests to not rely on remastered games for PS5:
What I think is the reality is that Sony will make more money on being able to sell additional PS4 content to PS5 gamers, and retain income from massive audiences on massive service-based games, than they will with a handful of remasters. I don't think Gravity Rush Remastered or God of War III Remastered did too hot. Other than The Last of Us Remastered, I can't think of a single Sony-published remaster that knocked it out of the park for them. Can you?
Additionally, Sony is better than to leave their successful and growing PSVR efforts in the dust when the PS5 launches, and start their VR game library from zero, when one of their biggest strengths in the console VR market now, is their library. Doubly so when they're investing more in deeper VR gaming experiences and actually investing more in VR in a first-party capacity. I think PS4 BC is practically guaranteed on this basis alone.
 

graywolf323

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,481
Virginia
He's got a history of this stuff. A long history. Just go back a page or so to see some examples.
yep, when I realized it was DocSeuss who wrote this article it made a lot more sense how much hyperbole there was

That isn't why people have an issue with some of your content and past posts, it's because you have a history of posting such slanted, misleading or downright factually incorrect things to push a pro Microsoft and anti-Sony agenda.

Eg you'll claim Sony has the worst first party meta averages of all the platforms when factually that is incorrect several years on the trot, and then ignore the posts that correct you on this.

You'll claim its predominantly Sony pushing out CGI trailers at conferences as one of the reasons you prefer Microsoft showings, and then when people highlight how Microsoft actually showed just as many if not more CGI trailers, you'll also ignore that post.

You'll state that you prefer Microsoft because they only show stuff that is coming out soon at conferences, and when someone responds with a bunch of games they'd shown years in advance, many that were cancelled, you'll ignore that too.

Then there's tweets like these.



And these are all just a few examples. It isn't like people's skepticism of your journalistic or other content is completely misplaced or aimless.

Edit: And I didn't go digging through either, just Goggle searched DocSeuss Twitter Sony and these were some of the very first tweets that came up lol.
I look forward to Nib getting back from his ban, he's one of the better posters on here IMO
 

Travaughn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
People don't seem to realize that MS enjoyed so much success with the 360 largely because of Sony's blunder. Were Sony priced evenly or affordably relative to the 360, they would've surpassed MS in lifetime sales much sooner. They were riding the momentum of the PS2 and their arrogance occluded their vision and made them underestimate the competition. That won't happen again considering that we've heard continually from PS executives since who've communicated as much. We see the evidence in the expansion of their teams and you'd be foolish to think they're not going to spend many millions in R&D on PS5 and PSVR2. Playstation as a brand is much more valuable to Sony than Xbox is to Microsoft, so to think Sony is expending anything less than MS is faulty logic to me. We'll see the coming generation whose predictions were sound and which were off the mark.
 

blitzblake

Member
Jan 4, 2018
1,018
Man if they could just secure consistent, quality first party titles, it would be the best console, really hope they kick some goals next gen.
 
OP
OP
DriftingSpirit
Oct 25, 2017
11,266
PS4 BC on PS5 is a go to me.

It is more a question of how far the implementation goes. On a scale of bare minimum to Xbox One tier quality, where do you think PS4 BC would land? How much effort would go into it? How likely are PS1/PS2/PS3? Etc...
 
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B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
15,327
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the article in the OP and not about Doc's post history. If you'd like to argue about the article that is fine, but this thread is not about Doc so get back on topic.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,416
People don't seem to realize that MS enjoyed so much success with the 360 largely because of Sony's blunder.
Conversely, Sony only succeeded with PS4 to this degree because the WiiU was completely dead in the water and Microsoft bungled their launch and marketing so badly. Complete dominance isn't necessarily their default state - we've never seen what it looks like when all 3 players are firing on all cylinders. It's going to be an exciting generation, imo.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
Yeah it's been a good turnaround. Still just need better OS reliability and performance. The X itself is a masterpiece system, but the first party output remains anemic. Their new studios are a giant potential boon though, and I am very optimistic for the new Halo as well as anything Playground Games puts out. [email protected] (please change this name) has quietly been doing amazing work too.
 

TheRulingRing

Member
Apr 6, 2018
2,881
TheRulingRing here is obsessed with tradition to the point of accusing me of "twisting facts." The reality is that I just really fucking like unique hardware, and if you look at every statement I made, my fascinating with uniqueness is why I enjoy the Xbox. That's cool to me. So by my own metrics, what I personally value in a console, I'm going to say the unique console is best. TheRulingRing is a very conservative person, based on this post, and clearly wants a very standard, normal console. See that weird statement about "properly carried on that old tradition." I don't value carrying on old traditions. We have different value systems.

But TheRulingRing wants to make it personal and make me out to be a bad person. That's fanboyism for you.

Also, TheRulingRing, your obsession with "objectivity" is fucking weird lol. Opinion pieces aren't supposed to be objective.
You're free to your opinions, but that doesn't mean you can't be called out on it when you're trying to sell it to others based off false premises and revisionism.

I prefer the types of games that MS exclusives tend to be, I'm not one of the "but the games are the most important thing" people, and there are many things that MS is doing that are better in my books than Sony currently is, but by all means continue calling me a fanboy.

I'm also interested in hearing about this incredibly unique thing that Xbox hardware has over everyone.
 

Terror-Billy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
When this generation started I said “there’s no fucking way I’m ever buying an Xbox again.” I loved the 360 but the one looked like a disaster. I had to settle for a PS4, which wasn’t my first choice because I don’t like Sony consoles. When the X came out, I knew I had to sell my Pro to buy the X and some games, and boy, was it a great idea. Props to MS for turning the ship around before it started sinking.
 

Mezoly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the article in the OP and not about Doc's post history. If you'd like to argue about the article that is fine, but this thread is not about Doc so get back on topic.
If Timdog or Dobby made an article we shouldn't bring their history? Why every thread that includes Pacther his history is brought up with a lot of mockery with no mod action? Some consistency would be nice.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,563
Conversely, Sony only succeeded with PS4 to this degree because the WiiU was completely dead in the water and Microsoft bungled their launch and marketing so badly. Complete dominance isn't necessarily their default state - we've never seen what it looks like when all 3 players are firing on all cylinders. It's going to be an exciting generation, imo.
Agreed. It's silly to claim any company's success is largely due to the faults of the competition. It completely dismisses what the competition does right. It also dismisses the importance of competition when one assumes a specific company will always dominate regardless of how well the other parties do.
 

Travaughn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
Conversely, Sony only succeeded with PS4 to this degree because the WiiU was completely dead in the water and Microsoft bungled their launch and marketing so badly. Complete dominance isn't necessarily their default state - we've never seen what it looks like when all 3 players are firing on all cylinders. It's going to be an exciting generation, imo.
I wouldn't even consider Wii U a competitor to the PS4 as you said because it was already dead and technologically, competing against PS3/360. Microsoft essentially pulled a PS3 this gen and it sounds as if they're going that same route, speculatively, based on price. I welcome it honestly, it'll be a bloodbath if all 3 console makers basically offer the same experience and the only determining factor is first party software. Because of increasing dev costs, I think we'll see both more multiplatform games (except Japanese produced and appealing games that don't make it to the Xbox ) and timed exclusivity.

Agreed. It's silly to claim any company's success is largely due to the faults of the competition. It completely dismisses what the competition does right. It also dismisses the importance of competition when one assumes a specific company will always dominate regardless of how well the other parties do.
So then are you then claiming that the 360 and PS4 did not in fact enjoy as much success as they did because of the blunders of their respective competition? It's silly to claim they didn't, that is a direct factor as to why they were as successful as they were.
 
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graywolf323

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,481
Virginia
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the article in the OP and not about Doc's post history. If you'd like to argue about the article that is fine, but this thread is not about Doc so get back on topic.
If Timdog or Dobby made an article we shouldn't bring their history? Why every thread that includes Pacther his history is brought up with a lot of mockery with no mod action? Some consistency would be nice.
yep I agree with this, many of us have known Doc for years between ERA and the forum that will go unnamed, why is the context of his previous posts not relevant? it's not like he's changed any of his views

It's a opinion piece, I'd say the author is pretty relevant to it.
also this, let Doc defend himself, he's perfectly willing as his posts in this thread prove

banning Nib95 and giving DocSeuss seeming protected status make it feel like ERA isn't all that different from the previous forum where some users were obvious favorites of mods who got away with stuff others couldn't
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Official Staff Communication
This thread is about the article in the OP and not about Doc's post history. If you'd like to argue about the article that is fine, but this thread is not about Doc so get back on topic.
Doc's article is an extension of the content of his post history, therefore it's pretty relevant to the discussion.
 

David___

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
Conversely, Sony only succeeded with PS4 to this degree because the WiiU was completely dead in the water and Microsoft bungled their launch and marketing so badly. Complete dominance isn't necessarily their default state - we've never seen what it looks like when all 3 players are firing on all cylinders. It's going to be an exciting generation, imo.
If you ignore that 2/3 of their home consoles(soon to be 3/4) sold north of 100 million with their worst effort being slightly north 80 million and neck and neck with Xbox's best performance so far, I guess you can say that
 
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TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,096
The only thing lacking from Xbox right now is more high quality first party games, which they are obviously trying to address by building 2 studios and acquiring others. Everything else is fantastic and a cut above the competition imo. Got to carry that over into next gen and bring the high quality first party titles with it.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,563
yep I agree with this, many of us have known Doc for years between ERA and the forum that will go unnamed, why is the context of his previous posts not relevant? it's not like he's changed any of his views



also this, let Doc defend himself, he's perfectly willing as his posts in this thread prove

banning Nib95 and giving DocSeuss seeming protected status make it feel like ERA isn't all that different from the previous forum where some users were obvious favorites of mods who got away with stuff others couldn't
I think the point the mod is trying to make is people are making it personal by bringing up his history, as controversial as it may be, which is different to someone defending themselves or their view. I get why people have an issue with the article, but then debate the content of the article and see where the opinions stem from, not attack the person in question directly.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
498
USA
i was expecting something slightly more nuanced and reasonable from the title but all i got was a low quality Microsoft fanfic 😬 Xbox One X is the best console because it's the most powerful and has a sturdy controller? give me a break. games matter, 1st party output matters, stewardship of said 1st party matters, and Microsoft shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt until we see actual, concrete results... yes, they have something nice going on with the backwards compatibility, but that's all it is; nice. It's nice to have. It doesn't make the XB1 the one true king and Phil Spencer into Jesus. And make no mistake Microsoft pushed it as hard as they did because it was quite honestly all they had. It's a stop-gap, and they are hoping it's enough to put the blinders on the horse and placate the most hardcore fans till they get their shit together. Apparently, it would seem it is.
 

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,253
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/xbox-one-console-generation-rise-fall-comeback-feature-5th-anniversary

-

From our very own DocSeuss

I quoted the more general quotes on the Xbox, but the article delves into the history and potential future of the Xbox/Xbox One. A lot more at the link.

What y'all think of where Xbox One has come since launch? What stands out and what needs more work?
A platform launched and bought exclusives and had barebones infrastructure that it was trying to sell to people based on past accomplishments, but years later we see a full vision of their future being implemented by a newly picked leader from among the previous infrastructure.

It’s almost like it takes time to do things right.

That said, I think most of the stuff people talk about for Xbox is a bit overblown or was being done by others and then they made a big deal about it.

I do think the assistance controller is great and for people who have extensive backlogs, having backwards compatibility to their older games is cool. Most of the rest of it? It’s been being done by others.
 

TheRulingRing

Member
Apr 6, 2018
2,881
I think the point the mod is trying to make is people are making it personal by bringing up his history, as controversial as it may be, which is different to someone defending themselves or their view. I get why people have an issue with the article, but then debate the content of the article and see where the opinions stem from, not attack the person in question directly.
Bringing up an author's biases is always relevant when discussing the content of an article like this.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,114
I think the point the mod is trying to make is people are making it personal by bringing up his history, as controversial as it may be, which is different to someone defending themselves or their view. I get why people have an issue with the article, but then debate the content of the article and see where the opinions stem from, not attack the person in question directly.
I don't think it is, I think it's entirely in line with what the article is about and his history. it's extremely relevant to the topic.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
15,327
I think the point the mod is trying to make is people are making it personal by bringing up his history, as controversial as it may be, which is different to someone defending themselves or their view. I get why people have an issue with the article, but then debate the content of the article and see where the opinions stem from, not attack the person in question directly.
Exactly. The article is worth having a thread about, but it shouldn't turn into people digging up crap and making it personal. There's plenty of stuff in the article you can argue about and use to discredit the point it's making if that's what you want to do.
 
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