The Final Fantasy "Project W" Follow-up (Super Bunnyhop)

[NotLiquid]

We had a pretty big thread on Square and Eidos' cancelled "Project W" after a comprehensive coverage by Super Bunnyhop. He's released a follow-up to that video now, with a few more details/concept pieces on the game.

Also shouts out some old posts by Nirolak and Kagari.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Just like Fortress, I would have enjoyed seeing this come to fruition. That fractal motif is so interesting. I do agree that the planet hopping was way too ambitious. More devs need to take 'less is more' to heart sometimes.

 

[Joeku]

Fractal space would have been dope.

 

[Koozek]

Ohh nice, thanks for posting! Will watch later. Always love these types of videos.

And lol, seeing your mention of old Kagari and Nirolak posts, I guess Bunnyhop might've seen one of my speculation posts from a few years ago about this project? I always compiled Kagari and Nirolak's posts in those.

 

[NotLiquid]

Ohh nice, thanks for posting! Will watch later. Always love these types of videos.

And lol, seeing your mention of old Kagari and Nirolak posts, I guess Bunnyhop might've seen one of my speculation posts from a few years ago about this project? I always compiled Kagari and Nirolak's posts in those.

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Oh yeah.

 

[Koozek]

Oh yeah.

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Hah, nice :D

Haven't watched the video yet, but from the first video it sounded like the project was only FF-branded in the very initial stage, so I guess what he's mainly talking about here is basically a new IP? Would've been more interesting to me if it actually had been considered a FF throughout the whole development. I've recently been phantasizing a lot about how it would be if a Western AAA studio would make a new mainline FF in collaboration with key staff from an internal SE team for the creative framework and concepts. Technically FFIX already kinda did that - it was developed in Hawaii with some Japanese key staff working with a lot of American staff, including CG artists like Jake Rowell who made many of the pre-rendered backgrounds or concept artists like Christian Scheurer who's still working on Hollywood movies (most recently Aquaman).

IGN: How does having split development sites in Hawaii and Japan affect the outcome of a game?

Hiroyuki Itou, Director: Many of our FFIX staff members come from overseas. Many of them have worked actively in Hollywood. Square has gained a major advantage from working with these highly skilled individuals. Since it would be somewhat difficult for our overseas members to work in Japan, Hawaii was the ideal place for the team to work together.

Source.

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Another creative collaboration - though different than what I meant above since it was still mainly developed in Japan - happened for the Agni's Philosophy tech demo from 2012 where SE/Visual Works worked together with Crystal Dynamics:

You've seen Square Enix's Agni's Philosophy tech demo right? If you haven't watch it, it's pretty amazing. During CEDEC 2012, Square Enix's Luminous Studio team explained how they created the tech and it's a mix of East and West.

Concept artwork for Agni and the summoner were shared during the session:





Agni was designed by Ryo Iwata, Lead Technology artist, while the summoner was a created by Brian Horton from Crystal Dynamics.






Final Fantasy XIII art director Isamu Kamikokuryo and Brenoch Adams from Crystal Dynamics contributed environmental concept art.





To get Agni's hair right, the Luminous Team used a model and HDR camera.

Here are some shots of cloth testing…







… and facial animation tests.




Square Enix nailed the design of the wolf-like creature shown in the demo. They had fur animation tests for all of the creatures too.









They even got a dog to do motion capture work for the wolf-like monster!





Here's a look at the facial capture work based on Visual Works' technology.






Source.

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[Koozek]

Watched it. Yeah, the original premise clearly was waaay too ambitious (space exploration with 40 planets), especially for last-gen, but apparently they ultimately had decided to scale it down to just one planet with some floating chunks to explore. This is something that even a gigantic company like Ubisoft only now tries to tackle with BG&E2 - for next-gen.

I screencapped the shown concept art:

The last one references the original FF title screen:

 

[Keym]

Oh no... my dream FF set in space... I still want something like that. :(

Will have to watch later.

 

[Renmyra]

Digging the concept art.

 

[Nirolak]

I should note that we're almost certainly getting another Western made Final Fantasy, but it will be out of Square Enix Montreal this time (for mobile):

Another interesting perspective into the balanced between East and West at Square Enix is the mobile space. The vast majority of the publisher's mobile titles are developed in the East, and therefore most likely to attract audiences in Japan, Korea, China and other similar markets. But it does still have a Western presence in the mobile space.

Matsuda describes Square Enix Montreal - developer of Hitman Go, Lara Croft Go and Deus Ex Go - as "the centrepiece of our mobile effort" to attract more Western smartphone owners, but recognises that the number of Western studios working on mobile games is "something we need to bolster and work hard on". This also extends to reaching the end users, he says.

"If there's an area where we have not done all that we could have up until now, it would have to be the US - well, the Western markets but especially the US. The question there is how we go about getting our titles into the upper rankings, and one way we can do that is by leveraging our IP, especially our Japanese IP."

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Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...matsuda-on-growing-square-enixs-global-empire

 

[Koozek]

I should note that we're almost certainly getting another Western made Final Fantasy, but it will be out of Square Enix Montreal this time (for mobile):


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...matsuda-on-growing-square-enixs-global-empire

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Final Fantasy XV Go

Speaking of, just remembered that there's still a new Chinese-exclusive FFXV mobile game coming next year.

Oh no... my dream FF set in space... I still want something like that. :(

Will have to watch later.

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Didn't you want something more Sci-Fi Space Opera-like, iirc? This looks more like Star Ocean almost.

 

[Reynolds Woodcock]

I hope we can get direct links of the concept art.

 

[Dreamboum]

I should note that we're almost certainly getting another Western made Final Fantasy, but it will be out of Square Enix Montreal this time (for mobile):


Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...matsuda-on-growing-square-enixs-global-empire

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Oh...I didn't know that...

 

[Dreamboum]

I wonder what will be Matsuda's legacy for his career, especially compared to Wada. His focus shifting on medium budget games might be something that will pay off at the end, though it's a uphill road to get Eidos in a better state in terms of revenue.

 

[Keym]

Final Fantasy XV Go

Speaking of, just remembered that there's still a new Chinese-exclusive FFXV mobile game coming next year.




Didn't you want something more Sci-Fi Space Opera-like, iirc? This looks more like Star Ocean almost.

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Ideally, it'd be a mix of both. While I want something more like Mass Effct or The Spirits Within (but done right!), I'd still want one or two medieval towns/planets here and there, along with ancient alien civilizations that know how to use magic and summon space eidolons. Those concept art pictures look pretty good to me, except that the space airship would be an actual spaceship.

And lol, what is that XV game going to be about??

 

[Deleted member 6730]

I can't imagine a western developed Final Fantasy going over so well even in the wake of XIII. It looks cool, but the fractal motif seems weirdly subdued and the character designs look generic.

 

[Nirolak]

I wonder what will be Matsuda's legacy for his career, especially compared to Wada. His focus shifting on medium budget games might be something that will pay off at the end, though it's a uphill road to get Eidos in a better state in terms of revenue.

Click to shrink...

He actually has a variety of initiatives, though we haven't seen the results of all of them yet. The medium budget one mainly sticks out a bit more because they were able to get it done more quickly.

Their current strategy is along the lines of:

• Switch their biggest traditional games (from both Japan and the West) to a Games as a Service model. Please note that this applies to games that are coming out slightly later, as opposed to the ones they greenlit a long time ago. Put another way, expect this more for games like The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Tabata's New IP, and Final Fantasy XVI, and less so for games like Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and Just Cause 4.
• Make more small to medium budget games in both Japan and the West. We see this with things like Octopath and Life is Strange, along with a lot of others.
• They also want more mid-sized games as a service titles, since you can be pretty experimental with those. You'll notice that Platinum's new game with them looks suspiciously four player, and People Can Fly's new game is nigh assuredly also a service game.
  
• Become the leading Japanese eSports company. They released a bunch of games trying to do this, but ended up shutting almost all of them down, and said they were doubling down and trying even harder this time. We haven't seen the second wave of this yet. They consider Dissidia their biggest success here thus far though.
• Grow their Western mobile business (especially in the US since European mobile revenue is relatively stunted) dramatically. These haven't come out yet, but the first game in this push is getting announced soon. They also retroactively put Final Fantasy XV: A New Empire (which is astronomically successful) and Hitman Sniper (which switched to f2p and is making lots of money) in this category.
• Figure out how to launch new brands and ideas in the Japanese mobile space. They have some major hits based on their existing brands (and generally tied to their existing gameplay setups), but they haven't had nearly as much success launching and/or sustaining ground-up ideas either in terms of new IP or new gameplay.
• Their CEO is also personally really focused on AR, so expect to see some of that.
• They also seem to be converting their indie publishing into more direct, traditional publishing instead of the crazy Square Enix Collective thing where they only funded games in a really limited manner.

 

[Deleted member 721]

The concept arts looks amazing

 

[Koozek]

Ideally, it'd be a mix of both. While I want something more like Mass Effct or The Spirits Within (but done right!), I'd still want one or two medieval towns/planets here and there, along with ancient alien civilizations that know how to use magic and summon space eidolons. Those concept art pictures look pretty good to me, except that the space airship would be an actual spaceship.

And lol, what is that XV game going to be about??

Click to shrink...

Eh, either some nonsense alternate take on the universe a la FFXV: A New Empire or maybe it's set during Comrades' time with players creating their own Glaives, which would make the most sense as a backdrop for a MMO, I guess? Gameplay-wise maybe like that Chinese FF Type-0 Online aka. FF Awakening mobile game, which released in some Asian countries first in the last two years and this year also in Australia, New Zealand, the US and others. No clue how well it's been doing though, lol. Surely not as well as FFXV: A New Empire that's been making crazy bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Type-0_Online

He actually has a variety of initiatives, though we haven't seen the results of all of them yet. The medium budget one mainly sticks out a bit more because they were able to get it done more quickly.

Their current strategy is along the lines of:

• Switch their biggest traditional games (from both Japan and the West) to a Games as a Service model. Please note that this applies to games that are coming out slightly later, as opposed to the ones they greenlit a long time ago. Put another way, expect this more for games like The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Tabata's New IP, and Final Fantasy XVI, and less so for games like Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and Just Cause 4.
• Make more small to medium budget games in both Japan and the West. We see this with things like Octopath and Life is Strange, along with a lot of others.
• They also want more mid-sized games as a service titles, since you can be pretty experimental with those. You'll notice that Platinum's new game with them looks suspiciously four player, and People Can Fly's new game is nigh assuredly also a service game.
  
• Become the leading Japanese eSports company. They released a bunch of games trying to do this, but ended up shutting almost all of them down, and said they were doubling down and trying even harder this time. We haven't seen the second wave of this yet. They consider Dissidia their biggest success here thus far though.
• Grow their Western mobile business (especially in the US since European mobile revenue is relatively stunted) dramatically. These haven't come out yet, but the first game in this push is getting announced soon. They also retroactively put Final Fantasy XV: A New Empire (which is astronomically successful) and Hitman Sniper (which switched to f2p and is making lots of money) in this category.
• Figure out how to launch new brands and ideas in the Japanese mobile space. They have some major hits based on their existing brands (and generally tied to their existing gameplay setups), but they haven't had nearly as much success launching and/or sustaining ground-up ideas either in terms of new IP or new gameplay.
• Their CEO is also personally really focused on AR, so expect to see some of that.
• They also seem to be converting their indie publishing into more direct, traditional publishing instead of the crazy Square Enix Collective thing where they only funded games in a really limited manner.

Click to shrink...

Great summary, thanks!

 

[Stryder]

The only original Japanese series I'd like a western developer to touch is MGS. I don't know how the characters and story would go over as an FF game from the west.

 

[Keym]

Eh, either some nonsense alternate take on the universe a la FFXV: A New Empire or maybe it's set during Comrades' time with players creating their own Glaives, which would make the most sense as a backdrop for a MMO, I guess? Gameplay-wise maybe like that Chinese FF Type-0 Online aka. FF Awakening mobile game, which released in some Asian countries first in the last two years and this year also in Australia, New Zealand, the US and others. No clue how well it's been doing though, lol. Surely not as well as FFXV: A New Empire that's been making crazy bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Type-0_Online

Great summary, thanks!

Click to shrink...

Ugh, pass. Is A New Empire still making them truckloads of money? I can't believe it did that well for so long.

Become the leading Japanese eSports company. They released a bunch of games trying to do this, but ended up shutting almost all of them down, and said they were doubling down and trying even harder this time. We haven't seen the second wave of this yet. They consider Dissidia their biggest success here thus far though.

Click to shrink...

Are they insane

You know what, screw it. Bring back Ehrgeiz.

 

[tiesto]

He actually has a variety of initiatives, though we haven't seen the results of all of them yet. The medium budget one mainly sticks out a bit more because they were able to get it done more quickly.

Their current strategy is along the lines of:

• Switch their biggest traditional games (from both Japan and the West) to a Games as a Service model. Please note that this applies to games that are coming out slightly later, as opposed to the ones they greenlit a long time ago. Put another way, expect this more for games like The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Tabata's New IP, and Final Fantasy XVI, and less so for games like Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and Just Cause 4.
• Make more small to medium budget games in both Japan and the West. We see this with things like Octopath and Life is Strange, along with a lot of others.
• They also want more mid-sized games as a service titles, since you can be pretty experimental with those. You'll notice that Platinum's new game with them looks suspiciously four player, and People Can Fly's new game is nigh assuredly also a service game.
  
• Become the leading Japanese eSports company. They released a bunch of games trying to do this, but ended up shutting almost all of them down, and said they were doubling down and trying even harder this time. We haven't seen the second wave of this yet. They consider Dissidia their biggest success here thus far though.
• Grow their Western mobile business (especially in the US since European mobile revenue is relatively stunted) dramatically. These haven't come out yet, but the first game in this push is getting announced soon. They also retroactively put Final Fantasy XV: A New Empire (which is astronomically successful) and Hitman Sniper (which switched to f2p and is making lots of money) in this category.
• Figure out how to launch new brands and ideas in the Japanese mobile space. They have some major hits based on their existing brands (and generally tied to their existing gameplay setups), but they haven't had nearly as much success launching and/or sustaining ground-up ideas either in terms of new IP or new gameplay.
• Their CEO is also personally really focused on AR, so expect to see some of that.
• They also seem to be converting their indie publishing into more direct, traditional publishing instead of the crazy Square Enix Collective thing where they only funded games in a really limited manner.

Click to shrink...

Apart from making more small to medium size titles, this all sounds awful. A far cry from the company I grew up loving.

 

[Koozek]

Ugh, pass. Is A New Empire still making them truckloads of money? I can't believe it did that well for so long.

Click to shrink...

To be clear, I'm just speculating on that Chinese mobile game. Don't think there has been any official info unless we missed Chinese news about it.

And yeah, FFXV: A New Empire is still regularly in the Top 10-20 Grossing in many places.

 

[Phendrift]

Watched it. Yeah, the original premise clearly was waaay too ambitious (space exploration with 40 planets), especially for last-gen, but apparently they ultimately had decided to scale it down to just one planet with some floating chunks to explore. This is something that even a gigantic company like Ubisoft only now tries to tackle with BG&E2 - for next-gen.

I screencapped the shown concept art:

The last one references the original FF title screen:

Click to shrink...

I've never seen this before.... so heartbreaking that we won't get it. Oh my god :(

I really want a space FF

 

[Koozek]

I've never seen this before.... so heartbreaking that we won't get it. Oh my god :(

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Well, they're are never-before-seen, it seems. Bunnyhop got hands on those somehow.

 

[The Bear]

• Switch their biggest traditional games (from both Japan and the West) to a Games as a Service model. Please note that this applies to games that are coming out slightly later, as opposed to the ones they greenlit a long time ago. Put another way, expect this more for games like The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Tabata's New IP, and Final Fantasy XVI, and less so for games like Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and Just Cause 4.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't be surprised FF16 being a sort of hybrid service game, not quite a single-player game but not really an MMO either.

 

[Nirolak]

I wouldn't be surprised FF16 being a sort of hybrid service game, not quite a single-player game but not really an MMO either.

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I suspect something in one of these two categories:
1.) Optional Co-op Campaign Game With Service Tail: i.e. Ghost Recon: Wildlands, Dying Light, Divinity: Original Sin
2.) Modern Pseudo-MMO: i.e. Destiny, The Division, Anthem

Mind, I suspect Tabata's new IP will be #1 and Final Fantasy is more likely to end up at #2, but that hunch is mostly based on BD5 being the most likely candidate to be making FF16, while Tabata is continuing on from Final Fantasy XV's new design with his new IP.

We could of course see a different approach as well, given this is almost assuredly a next-gen game.

 

[The Bear]

I suspect something in one of these two categories:
1.) Optional Co-op Campaign Game With Service Tail: i.e. Ghost Recon: Wildlands, Dying Light, Divinity: Original Sin
2.) Modern Pseudo-MMO: i.e. Destiny, The Division, Anthem

Mind, I suspect Tabata's new IP will be #1 and Final Fantasy is more likely to end up at #2, but that hunch is mostly based on BD5 being the most likely candidate to be making FF16, while Tabata is continuing on from Final Fantasy XV's new design with his new IP.

We could of course see a different approach as well, given this is almost assuredly a next-gen game.

Click to shrink...

I suspect #2 is more likely for FF16 as well. It's possible Square might be looking at games like Destiny 2 and Anthem, and see how they are received by audiences and critics.

 

[butman]

I wonder if XVI will be bigger or smaller in the sense of scale than XV.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I wonder if XVI will be bigger or smaller in the sense of scale than XV.

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much bigger. FF15 with Comrades was a teaser of what's to come. and SE will be gunning for Anthem/Destiny space, so the games will have to be much, much bigger to compensate

 

[Phendrift]

Y'all are depressing me. I'm hoping XVI is completely SP

 

[Sou Da]

I suspect #2 is more likely for FF16 as well. It's possible Square might be looking at games like Destiny 2 and Anthem, and see how they are received by audiences and critics.

Click to shrink...

There is probably room for a fully melee based version of those.

 

[Koozek]

Y'all are depressing me. I'm hoping XVI is completely SP

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Lol, you can be sure it's gonna have some form of optional co-op component, shared hubs, maybe even customizable characters, especially if it's made by BD5 (the FFXIV team) as I've been assuming for a while now. No future AAA RPG, even more so in 2-3 years or so when FFXVI probably comes, will be completely SP without any form of co-op or online mode. Either more integrated in the main game with drop-in-drop-out co-op or a separate mode/DLC like FFXV's Comrade that will be run as a live service (possibly f2p with cosmetic microtransaction).

There is probably room for a fully melee based version of those.

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I don't even play games online, but FFXV's Comrades gave me a taste of how fun an Action-based FF could potentially be in co-op, but without all the annoying design decisions that held Comrades back. Would be down with some optional co-op stuff in FFXVI (unless the combat is too MMO-ish like FFXIV).