The Flash S5 |OT| The Bitchin' House of Ls

Oct 30, 2017
1,639
Canada
I've always found the behaviour of Eobard Wells to be so at odds with the behaviour and mannerism of the actual Eobard. And I don't just mean how he was in Legends where he's comical obviously because of the light hearted tone of the series, but even when he was himself in this series he behaved very differently than Eobard Wells. Who is just Tom Kavanaugh persona #1
I forget, did they ever bring up anything about personality bleed as part of the body-stealing process?

I could see Eobard normally being a goofier guy, but Wells was a bit more even and driven, and that bled over into Thawne.

They could also explain it with Wellsobard being further along the timeline - Matt Eobard is goofier because he's young and hasn't been defeated by a moron seventy times yet. Wellsobard is harder as a result.

I did really like how Wellsobard went from being super intense as he was feeling them and the situation out to offering them water and casually chatting with them. Wellsobard rules.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
Remind me again..why was that?
I'm not sure. I'm assuming it's just a side effect from the future tech he used when he assumed the identity of Wells.

I do remember him saying something about how he misses Wells' wife, despite not actually knowing her.
 

Egg0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,082
Man I missed Thawne.

Also did I miss an episode where Thawne was imprisoned or is this a new development? Last I remember seeing him was the last crossover.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,455
I forget, did they ever bring up anything about personality bleed as part of the body-stealing process?

I could see Eobard normally being a goofier guy, but Wells was a bit more even and driven, and that bled over into Thawne.

They could also explain it with Wellsobard being further along the timeline - Matt Eobard is goofier because he's young and hasn't been defeated by a moron seventy times yet. Wellsobard is harder as a result.

I did really like how Wellsobard went from being super intense as he was feeling them and the situation out to offering them water and casually chatting with them. Wellsobard rules.
Doesn't Eobard Wells turn into Matt Eobard near the end of season 1 anyway? Meaning the identity change was never permanent.

You could say that the Matt Eobard in Legends is goofy due to inexperience since he's basically from the time when he was suppose to kill Barry's mother and hasn't experienced the Wells life. Plus he's a time ghost of sort. But the Matt Eobard you see later in The Flash (when Flash keeps him hostage) is the "experienced one". Yet he's goofy too.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
I'm so confused about the Thawne stuff now... Didn't he go back in time to make sure the particle accelerator blew up so that Flash would be created? But then in last night's episode, Barry said he went back to kill Barry's mom so that Flash would NOT be created. I thought he needed both things to happen so that he would become The Flash?
Thawne traveled back in time to kill Barry's mom to try and stop him from becoming the Flash. When he did that, he lost his ability to time travel because interfering with the timeline fucked up his connection to the Speed Force. Once he was stuck in the past, he realized he had to make sure Barry did become the Flash so that he could use him to get back to his own time, so he stole Harrison Wells' life and ensured the particle accelerator blew up, giving Barry his powers early and diverging the timeline a second time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
I'm so confused about the Thawne stuff now... Didn't he go back in time to make sure the particle accelerator blew up so that Flash would be created? But then in last night's episode, Barry said he went back to kill Barry's mom so that Flash would NOT be created. I thought he needed both things to happen so that he would become The Flash?
Wasn't the idea that him killing Nora fucked himself over , so he took over Wells and he himself had to create the flash eariler to survive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,455
Good way to celebrate episode one hundred, but still this was funny as hell.


I have a theory. The first one you see is what the season 2 Barry sees. The 2nd one is what current Barry saw before the season 2 Barry saw him...and as we know when he said goodbye to current Barry he ran back to the room in time to greet season 2 Barry.

So it's simple, his hair got disheaveled while running back! No continuity broken !
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
Bothell WA
Thawne traveled back in time to kill Barry's mom to try and stop him from becoming the Flash. When he did that, he lost his ability to time travel because interfering with the timeline fucked up his connection to the Speed Force. Once he was stuck in the past, he realized he had to make sure Barry did become the Flash so that he could use him to get back to his own time, so he stole Harrison Wells' life and ensured the particle accelerator blew up, giving Barry his powers early and diverging the timeline a second time.
Ah yes, I had them backwards. Still... If Thawne's first plan was to stop the Flash from being created, wouldn't he then NOT become the Reverse Flash? I have a bad memory when it comes to these shows previous seasons.
 
Oct 28, 2017
587
I have a heory. The first one you see is what the season 2 Barry sees. The 2nd one is what current Barry saw before the season 2 Barry saw him...and as we know when he said goodbye to current Barry he ran back to the room in time to greet season 2 Barry.

So it's simple, his hair got dishes eled while running back! No continuity broken !
I'm sorry, but WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
Ah yes, I had them backwards. Still... If Thawne's first plan was to stop the Flash from being created, wouldn't he then NOT become the Reverse Flash? I have a bad memory when it comes to these shows previous seasons.
Thawne's motivation is fundamentally broken, yes. He was inspired to become a speedster by the Flash and then found out that the Flash was his greatest nemesis and it broke him. Stopping Barry from becoming the Flash would in turn stop HIM from becoming Reverse-Flash, which itself would likely mess the timeline up even more.

The part of this that's hard to reconcile is that Thawne very clearly wants to stay alive. If he could, he'd find a way to paradox himself into an existence where Barry dies but he manages to survive, similar to what he did with the Spear of Destiny. But beyond that, he knows Barry has to be alive to keep himself from being consumed by time itself. This is why he settles for just fucking with Barry's life as much as possible nowadays rather than trying to kill him. If you can't kill him, make him miserable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
Bothell WA
Thawne's motivation is fundamentally broken, yes. He was inspired to become a speedster by the Flash and then found out that the Flash was his greatest nemesis and it broke him. Stopping Barry from becoming the Flash would in turn stop HIM from becoming Reverse-Flash, which itself would likely mess the timeline up even more.

The part of this that's hard to reconcile is that Thawne very clearly wants to stay alive. If he could, he'd find a way to paradox himself into an existence where Barry dies but he manages to survive, similar to what he did with the Spear of Destiny. But beyond that, he knows Barry has to be alive to keep himself from being consumed by time itself. This is why he settles for just fucking with Barry's life as much as possible nowadays rather than trying to kill him. If you can't kill him, make him miserable.
Alright, chock it up to Thawne just being crazy then.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
19,091
Alright, chock it up to Thawne just being crazy then.
The easier way to put it is just to consider that Thawne didn't think his initial time travel trip through very well, and that's why the Speed Force reacted by trapping him in the past. It basically sentenced him to fix his own mistake, because if he tried to go back to the future in a timeline where Barry was never the Flash he would cease to exist, which in turn would prevent him from killing Nora, which would mean Barry DID become the Flash, and time would essentially slam into a feedback loop where both Flash and Reverse Flash exist and don't exist at the same time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
Bothell WA
The easier way to put it is just to consider that Thawne didn't think his initial time travel trip through very well, and that's why the Speed Force reacted by trapping him in the past. It basically sentenced him to fix his own mistake, because if he tried to go back to the future in a timeline where Barry was never the Flash he would cease to exist, which in turn would prevent him from killing Nora, which would mean Barry DID become the Flash, and time would essentially slam into a feedback loop where both Flash and Reverse Flash exist and don't exist at the same time.
Yeah, now that I understand, lol. I try to always think of time travel shows/movies with the base rule that whatever "time" we see our main characters start in as "timeline prime" which means you can make changes to it and not get caught in time loops.
 
Oct 25, 2017
788
I really enjoyed this episode up until they got back to Cicada. All this mysterious Thawne fuckery is exactly what I want. It's sad that they can't seem to make anything as compelling as that, which we we already got in the first season of the show, though.

Sherloque is absolutely some version of Thawne. If he's not then that "clever girl" thing is just the worst misleading thing ever, lmao. Not that I'd put it past the writers, but still.
 
Oct 25, 2017
788
So everyone likes the episode till Cicada popped up and plan failed because everyone was being idiot and there's an entire season left
It feels like this episode would've been better to have whenever they actually plan on having Cicada be captured/killed, but they wanted to do this concept for the 100th episode. There's no way that the resolution to Cicada's arc is going to be as satisfying as going back in time to steal components from all the villains to make a weapon.
 
Nov 30, 2017
478
Also about Zoom I think everyone is just chalking it up as the wraith putting him back to where he was supposed to be. I don't think he was taken early. Also I did like the scene when the particle accelerator going off showing where everyone was at the time, also Nora and Henry moment was a nice touch.
 

Egg0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,082
The whole going back in the past to collect items could've been the whole episode and I would've been fine because I really love these types of episodes where they reference past stuff.

The execution of the plan against Cicada should've been on the next episode, but I realize they had the crossover coming so. Womp womp.
 
Nov 30, 2017
478
Yeah the whole cicada plot just ruined it. This would of been perfect to take down cicada in time for the crossover. Also okay Killer Frost is immune to the Dagger but Superman and Super Girl arent?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
I had a thought. I figure Zoom escapes and things proceed as normal. He's resourceful like that. What if this event is what basically puts him on the time wraiths radar in a big way and that is part of why they go after him the way they do at the end of season 2. Granted there was a lot of fucking with the speedforce at that moment but they aimed right for Zoom and left Barry alone. True Barry had just left it but I don't recall him leaving it horrible terms. Not to the point they'd want to punish him. That happens later. If that wraith saw how close Zoom was to catching Barry and Nora perhaps that was the moment they figured he would be a good candditate to be their enforcer and the idea to create the Black Flash was born and they decided to do it at the next opportunity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,962
Yeah the whole cicada plot just ruined it. This would of been perfect to take down cicada in time for the crossover. Also okay Killer Frost is immune to the Dagger but Superman and Super Girl arent?
I already said but they established long before this they it just absorbs dark matter so kryptonians wouldn't be affected but I guess Cicada is so strong and shut up
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
I had a thought. I figure Zoom escapes and things proceed as normal. He's resourceful like that. What if this event is what basically puts him on the time wraiths radar in a big way and that is part of why they go after him the way they do at the end of season 2. Granted there was a lot of fucking with the speedforce at that moment but they aimed right for Zoom and left Barry alone. True Barry had just left it but I don't recall him leaving it horrible terms. Not to the point they'd want to punish him. That happens later. If that wraith saw how close Zoom was to catching Barry and Nora perhaps that was the moment they figured he would be a good candditate to be their enforcer and the idea to create the Black Flash was born and they decided to do it at the next opportunity.
I thought the reason the Time Wraiths were mad at Zoom specifically was because he just kept constantly making time remnants of himself to fuck with Barry.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,164
I can't think of a better way to celebrate the 100th episode than for it to be an episode where Barry fucks up spectacularly. There isn't a more fitting way to end a Flash 100th episode..
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
I can't think of a better way to celebrate the 100th episode than for it to be an episode where Barry fucks up spectacularly. There isn't a more fitting way to end a Flash 100th episode..
I'm putting the L precisely on Cisco's shoulders this time. He could've vibed the dagger to another Earth entirely and instead he threw it into space.
 
Nov 30, 2017
478
This is all on Cisco. Yeah I vibed your dagger to space and then Ill tell you what I did. How hard would it of been to just vibe it to earth 2 or a barren earth lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
There is actually a barren Earth they know about as too. That said he could have vibed it closer to the sun as well. Though in their defense they had no way to know he could command that dagger that far away. It was beyond the Earth's pull from the looks of it and going away from it. There is usually a limit on how far powers extend and not unreasonable thinking that distance would work. I'm not going to hold that against them to much in the end. The plan was ultimately working. Even if Cisco didn't say anything it looks like he could still feel it or would have tried summoning it at some point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,962
I'm putting the L precisely on Cisco's shoulders this time. He could've vibed the dagger to another Earth entirely and instead he threw it into space.
This is all on Cisco. Yeah I vibed your dagger to space and then Ill tell you what I did. How hard would it of been to just vibe it to earth 2 or a barren earth lol.
Nah in that entire time that Cicada was recalling the dagger, Barry could have immediately put him in the pipeline and at the same time make an entire Christmas feast and even set up tables and shit
 
Nov 30, 2017
478
Yeah I know I just wanted them to wrap up Cicada before the crossover. I wonder if hell be gone for a bit then new arcs or of they will finish his arc after the crossover.
 
OP
OP
ZeroX
Oct 25, 2017
6,592
Speed Force
I would’ve liked if they did breach the dagger to another Earth, and Cicada still managed to call back it and him literally cutting through spacetime is what brings the Monitor to Earth-1 in Elseworlds
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,815
Detroit, MI
I would’ve liked if they did breach the dagger to another Earth, and Cicada still managed to call back it and him literally cutting through spacetime is what brings the Monitor to Earth-1 in Elseworlds
The dagger cutting through the multiverse would have actually made him cool instead of making everyone look stupid
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
19,091
The dagger cutting through the multiverse would have actually made him cool instead of making everyone look stupid
I dunno, that crane shot of him roaring at the sky and very faintly glowing would've made him look like a dork no matter what CGI effect came right after it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,756
Well that was pointless.

I mean the character stuff was alright, but to go through all that and literally just have the dude get away again so now absolutely nothing has changed? Lame as hell.

We should have been done with Cicada this week and have the Reverse Flash plot take up the rest of the season.

This show sucks.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,091
Well that was pointless.

I mean the character stuff was alright, but to go through all that and literally just have the dude get away again so now absolutely nothing has changed? Lame as hell.

We should have been done with Cicada this week and have the Reverse Flash plot take up the rest of the season.

This show sucks.
To be entirely fair, Cicada has barely even interacted with Team Flash thus far this season. It would be weird if they finished him off this quickly. That being said, yeah, it was kind of lame that the entire episode's plot was kind of rendered pointless because Cisco didn't portal the dagger anywhere helpful. It would've stung a lot less if the device actually made some progress for the team.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,999
U.S.
I thought this episode was incredible. The entire episode was perfectly directed. Perfect use of nostalgia.

Barry & Nora have great chemistry. The scene when he reveals how his mom died and the other scene where they're watching his parents were so perfect.