The Flash S5 |OT| The Bitchin' House of Ls

[PlanetSmasher]

They're Mike and Joel, or Kirk and Picard. Both good, but in different ways.

I prefer Cavanagh Thawne right now, because he reminded me how much I love it when you can't tell which way he's going to go. When he's on, he's on. In his scenes you can really get a sense for how dispassionate and cruel he is with his hate, but there's also an infinitesimal tinge of genuine compassion for Team Flash, or at least enough disdain that leads to him not feeling the need to overtly destroy them at any time. You can see him constantly weighing the situation and his options and the outcomes.

Every conversation sits on a knife-edge where he can either lash out and suddenly do untold damage, or just calmly hang out with them and berate them because, eh, what the hell does he care? It's great.

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Exactly how I feel. Letscher Thawne has no attachment to any of them beyond his outright disdain for Barry as a person, whereas Wellsobard is just enough of a human that he becomes almost totally unpredictable. There's actual chemistry between him and the cast, and all of his interactions with Cait, Cisco and Barry are colored by that.

I love Letscher's take, but I think he fits way better in Legends where he has no connection to any of the primary characters and just shits on them constantly because he's better than they are and he doesn't care.

 

[Keym]

I don't even know why Eobard hates Barry so much. Hope we get some insight into his... past (?) after the break.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I don't even know why Eobard hates Barry so much. Hope we get some insight into his... past (?) after the break.

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Eobard lost his mind when he realized that he was destined to be Barry's greatest nemesis. Instead of trying to fight against that fate he just leaned directly into it. And Original Timeline Barry is way better at being the Flash than our Barry is, so I imagine Eobard lost a bunch of those fights. It's pretty natural that it would evolve into hatred eventually.

 

[Keym]

Eobard lost his mind when he realized that he was destined to be Barry's greatest nemesis. Instead of trying to fight against that fate he just leaned directly into it. And Original Timeline Barry is way better at being the Flash than our Barry is, so I imagine Eobard lost a bunch of those fights. It's pretty natural that it would evolve into hatred eventually.

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I'd like to see some of that on screen for a change. I can't imagine what OT Barry could be like after spending so many years with our Barry.

 

[Platy]

So Shelocke is totally Eobard too, right ?

 

[Deleted member 34881]

If we ever do get a glimpse into what the original timeline was I hope its in an Origin episode for Eobard.

 

[Billfisto]

So Shelocke is totally Eobard too, right ?

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I'm totally on team Sherloqueobard, too.

Amanda Pays should show up again and also end up being another Eobard.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I think the clever girl thing is misdirection. Every season we keep thinking that the new Wells is secretly a villain all along and every season we're wrong. It just doesn't make sense for the writers to play that card again.

 

[Keym]

I think the clever girl thing is misdirection. Every season we keep thinking that the new Wells is secretly a villain all along and every season we're wrong. It just doesn't make sense for the writers to play that card again.

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These are the same writers that used "Barry's mentor was secretly evil all along" as a plot device twice in a row. All bets are off.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

These are the same writers that used "Barry's mentor was secretly evil all along" as a plot device twice in a row. All bets are off.

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Of course. I'm just saying they enjoy making every new Wells seem shifty and possibly evil.

Honestly, I think it's better for the story overall if Sherloque isn't Eobard, because it doesn't really make narrative sense. We keep seeing scenes between the two of them when no one else is around and there would be no reason for Eobard to pretend like that if they're working together.

 

[Platy]

I think the clever girl thing is misdirection. Every season we keep thinking that the new Wells is secretly a villain all along and every season we're wrong. It just doesn't make sense for the writers to play that card again.

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What if nora is actually a .... velociraptor ?

 

[Rackham]

They're Mike and Joel, or Kirk and Picard. Both good, but in different ways.

I prefer Cavanagh Thawne right now, because he reminded me how much I love it when you can't tell which way he's going to go. When he's on, he's on. In his scenes you can really get a sense for how dispassionate and cruel he is with his hate, but there's also an infinitesimal tinge of genuine compassion for Team Flash, or at least enough disdain that leads to him not feeling the need to overtly destroy them at any time. You can see him constantly weighing the situation and his options and the outcomes.

Every conversation sits on a knife-edge where he can either lash out and suddenly do untold damage, or just calmly hang out with them and berate them because, eh, what the hell does he care? It's great.

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Great analysis

I don't even know why Eobard hates Barry so much. Hope we get some insight into his... past (?) after the break.

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Eobard is insane. He admits it. I don't think he needs more a reason for it. He basically says as much here

 

[Billfisto]

Honestly, I think it's better for the story overall if Sherloque isn't Eobard, because it doesn't really make narrative sense. We keep seeing scenes between the two of them when no one else is around and there would be no reason for Eobard to pretend like that if they're working together.

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My theory now is that Sherloqueobard is earlier on Eobard's personal timeline than Jaileobard, and thus he's unaware that he sent her back because he hasn't done it yet.

 

[tmdorsey]

Nothing for nothing, but I really like the scene from this past episode where Barry calls Cicada "Cicada" and he goes "Is that what you call me?". LOL

 

[PlanetSmasher]

My theory now is that Sherloqueobard is earlier on Eobard's personal timeline than Jaileobard, and thus he's unaware that he sent her back because he hasn't done it yet.

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They could do that, but I just think it's a little too Doctor Who for this show. I think Sherloque is going to turn out to be exactly what he says he is - a skilled detective who's also just a complete and utter failure at anything resembling social interaction. Basically the anti-HR.

Remember: Sherloque had to exist long enough for Herr Wells to find out about him. Eobard is obviously no stranger to long cons, but it just seems too unbelievable that he'd spend a shitload of time on an alternate Earth building up a reputation just so that a DIFFERENT alt-Wells would find out about him and recommend him to the team.

 

[Immortan]

Hard no from me. I love Matt's Thawne, and think he's the best antagonist on the show.

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This I agree with. Wells is still great no doubt about it, but he always has this, "I'm a step ahead of you, but you own me so much Barry I'm hurt." Matt plays it more of, "I'm the smartest mutha fucka in the room and I can kill each and everyone of you before you know anything happened." He only showed fear for black flash which makes sense but when he was on, he was ON like when he killed ray. Pulled his heart out, showed it to him, dropped it and left. Same with Rex, popped his heart and was laterzzz

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think every arrowverse big picture villain should get a do over in Legends. Merlym, Thawne, and Darhk were hamming it up good that season

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Not Prometheus, was too good as is.

 

[Slayven]

Why isn't there a password on Gideon?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Why isn't there a password on Gideon?

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There is. It's Morena Baccarin's pay rate.

 

[Billfisto]

Remember: Sherloque had to exist long enough for Herr Wells to find out about him. Eobard is obviously no stranger to long cons, but it just seems too unbelievable that he'd spend a shitload of time on an alternate Earth building up a reputation just so that a DIFFERENT alt-Wells would find out about him and recommend him to the team.

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Sherloque doesn't need to establish himself. If Eobard can look like Sherloque, he can look like Herr Wells.

Or he can just stand off-camera, menacingly vibrating his hand.

 

[carlsojo]

I think every arrowverse big picture villain should get a do over in Legends. Merlym, Thawne, and Darhk were hamming it up good that season

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The truly evil ones like Prometheus and Savitar wouldn't work. The villains that went over to Legends could all have fun with it to an extent. Can't imagine Savitar hamming it up dance-fighting to Return of the Mack or Prometheus high fiving Nate. The Legion worked so well because they're all so charming and you can kind of root for them to win.

Deathstroke would be too serious too unless they grounded the show a bit more (and who wants that?)

Bronze Tiger or Black Siren would be GREAT.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Sherloque doesn't need to establish himself. If Eobard can look like Sherloque, he can look like Herr Wells.

Or he can just stand off-camera, menacingly vibrating his hand.

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I'm just saying it all feels way too convenient for a twist that everyone would just groan at.

The truly evil ones like Prometheus and Savitar wouldn't work. The villains that went over to Legends could all have fun with it to an extent. Can't imagine Savitar hamming it up dance-fighting to Return of the Mack or Prometheus high fiving Nate. The Legion worked so well because they're all so charming and you can kind of root for them to win.

Deathstroke would be too serious too unless they grounded the show a bit more (and who wants that?)

Bronze Tiger or Black Siren would be GREAT.

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Serious question, because Arrow bored me to death even in season 1: was Merlyn ever actually badass? I always just kinda see Barrowman as Jack Harkness and it infuses every Merlyn appearance I've seen with a layer of meta-comedy that I just can't shake off.

 

[Slayven]

There should have been a "Terrors of Tomorrow" evil Legends team

 

[Billfisto]

I'm just saying it all feels way too convenient for a twist that everyone would just groan at.

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[Lotus]

was Merlyn ever actually badass?

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[caliph95]

Of course. I'm just saying they enjoy making every new Wells seem shifty and possibly evil.

Honestly, I think it's better for the story overall if Sherloque isn't Eobard, because it doesn't really make narrative sense. We keep seeing scenes between the two of them when no one else is around and there would be no reason for Eobard to pretend like that if they're working together.

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Like why would he bother with using Cisco algorithm if he's the one who made the language

 

[Billfisto]

Like why would he bother with using Cisco algorithm if he's the one who made the language

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He hasn't made it yet.

 

[caliph95]

He hasn't made it yet.

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True

Honestly I'm mixed because I have little faith in the writers. Either it's the kind of dumb twist with the level of I'm the future flash or it's too clever or different since there's s wells every season that's actually a good guy and turns out the suspicions of being evil is unfounded.

Or we're doing the thing where the new member is secretly a traitor

 

[Joni]

They could do that, but I just think it's a little too Doctor Who for this show. I think Sherloque is going to turn out to be exactly what he says he is - a skilled detective who's also just a complete and utter failure at anything resembling social interaction. Basically the anti-HR.

Remember: Sherloque had to exist long enough for Herr Wells to find out about him. Eobard is obviously no stranger to long cons, but it just seems too unbelievable that he'd spend a shitload of time on an alternate Earth building up a reputation just so that a DIFFERENT alt-Wells would find out about him and recommend him to the team.

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There was something off about Herr Wells though.

I'm just saying it all feels way too convenient for a twist that everyone would just groan at.



Serious question, because Arrow bored me to death even in season 1: was Merlyn ever actually badass? I always just kinda see Barrowman as Jack Harkness and it infuses every Merlyn appearance I've seen with a layer of meta-comedy that I just can't shake off.

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He delivers a number of beatdowns on Oliver, making sure he is actually scary.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

Season finale is Thawne stealing Chris Klein's face, so.. forever.

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Don't even joke about that.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

There was something off about Herr Wells though.

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There's something off about every Wells, though.

 

[Calm Waterfall]

The Allen house is full of idiots. I don´t really get it. With the speed that their brain functions they should be the smartest.

 

[Billfisto]

There's something off about every Wells, though.

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That's exactly why it would work, though - after almost three seasons of increasingly benign Harrisons, we (and Team Flash) are conditioned to accept weird "comedy" Harrisons.

What better disguise for the circus than a clown?

 

[Deleted member 34881]

You know what still bugs me? In the original timeline they always bring up that the particle accelerator successfully went off and Barry becomes the Flash, so I assume metas were still created like normal. What was the point of having it fail then? If it still created metas in the og timeline. Idk why shit like this bothers me, this is all I think about at work lol.

 

[carlsojo]

I'm just saying it all feels way too convenient for a twist that everyone would just groan at.



Serious question, because Arrow bored me to death even in season 1: was Merlyn ever actually badass? I always just kinda see Barrowman as Jack Harkness and it infuses every Merlyn appearance I've seen with a layer of meta-comedy that I just can't shake off.

Click to shrink...

Yeah to be honest he's one of the few Arrow villains that was really menacing and could go toe-to-toe with Oliver.

Hell I don't think even Prometheus had very many good fight scenes against Oliver.

 

[Joni]

There's something off about every Wells, though.

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I mean his behavior when bringing up Sherloque was very different compared to previous Herr Wells scenes. If they were to go the Sherloque route, they could explain that Herr Wells was threathened and for that reason acting weird.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

This episode really reminded me that we are stuck with the worst Wells by far, hopefully we get a better one soon

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Yup, show had set him up as a bad guy at that point but how badass really came out of nowhere,
Beat Oliver's ass immediately after this

He only became a joke after S1.

 

[raYne_07]

This episode really reminded me that we are stuck with the worst Wells by far, hopefully we get a better one soon

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Yeah, I agree. Having Eobard Wells in the ep just highlights how meh every other Wells version is. Or maybe it just skews the scale since E.Wells is that far above the others...

Unless something else happens, the main reasons I'll remember Sherloque is the ongoing Nora suspicion and the Baby Giraffe nickname for Ralph. Just cause that's damn funny. Nothing else stands out.

 

[Lashley]

I just want Thawne to join the team, have him be an anti villain

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Yeah, I agree. Having Eobard Wells in the ep just highlights how meh every other Wells version is. Or maybe it just skews the scale since E.Wells is that far above the others...

Unless something else happens, the main reasons I'll remember Sherloque is the ongoing Nora suspicion and the Baby Giraffe nickname for Ralph. Just cause that's damn funny. Nothing else stands out.

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Not even just Eobard though.
Early Harry was much better, last season really made him too bland.
Also H.R was really good.

Even when the show wasn't great I was enjoying the Wells for that season.
Funny thing is im definitely enjoying this season over everything past season 2.B but can't stand current Wells.

 

[ZeroX]

Merlyn was the original beatdown big bad. He rightfully took down Oliver three times before he Ollie had to stab himself to beat him.

Both Thawnes were great and perfect for their respective shows.

 

[Maximum Spider]

This is the first time I haven't like an incarnation of Wells. The accent just doesn't work.

HR was a lot of fun. Regular, E2 Wells felt unnecessary after S2.

 

[raYne_07]

Not even just Eobard though.
Early Harry was much better, last season really made him too bland.
Also H.R was really good.

Even when the show wasn't great I was enjoying the Wells for that season.
Funny thing is im definitely enjoying this season over everything past season 2.B but can't stand current Wells.

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Yeah, I consider E.Wells and Early Harry the same thing based on the timeframe.

In any case, Wells is usually the standout character (especially early in the series), but this one is pretty flat for me except for what I mentioned.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Eobard Wells is top notch, but Harry is also up there too. Him being an extreme asshole is great fun lol.

I def didn't like the plot of last year of making him dumb. I also def didn't like H.R for most part (although he was fun at least). The new guy is ok, kinda annoying at first, but def feeling better about him. Though, still slightly annoying.

 

[ZeroX]

HR was the only bright spot in S3

Sherloque isn't super developed, but I guess if they knew that Cavanagh would also be reprising Thawne I don't think he needs to be. He's just there to provide the outsider view and see things the others don't (ie Nora). Although they also could've used Ralph for that...

 

[Lashley]

Eobard Thawne as mentor and leader of Team Flash.

It. Writes. Itself.

 

[PerfectFlaw]

Sherlock Wells is the best Wells since Eobard. I really like his natural ability to detect bullshit when he hears it. Besides him, Team Flash are completely oblivious about Nora and Sherlock makes them all look pretty bad in comparison.

 

[Skeeter49]

That episode was good...until Cicado showed up, then it ended good when he fucking flew away in the most hilarious fashion possible.

I'll take Ricardo Diaz over Cicada any day of the week.

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How many changes to the timeline do we need for Ricardo Diaz to become Cicada?

 

[raYne_07]

How many changes to the timeline do we need for Ricardo Diaz to become Cicada?

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Just have Thawne time travel, grab Diaz, and speed him into Cicada's spot where he gets hit by the satellite piece. Super Team formed!

 

[BIGLukas]

Legion of Doom V2: Diaz, Cicada, Thawne

Don't act like you don't want it