The Game Theorists: What They WON'T TELL YOU About Your Favorite Channels (Dive into Youtube Ad Pulls, Bad Creator PR, Video Game Charity Statistics)

[SinCityAssassin]

I'm not a big fan of MatPat, not even much of a fan for a lot of Youtubers/Twitch content-wise, whether or not I feel like they don't represent what I enjoy anymore or because I can't stand for the things they do, but I think this is an interesting video (Hell, it's not even a theory video) discussing how the lacking effort of good PR and perception buries a lot of good that digital content creators do, specifically Youtubers and Streamers, underneath the bad press of the relative few. It also extensively covers a lot of the direct influence content creators have had in just the last year via charity drives.

On ERA there's a lot of talk about the toxic gaming culture among a lot of streamers and creators, in fact recently there was a thread by @ASaiyan about the accountability of Youtubers, but it's interesting to note the flip-side of that coin and talk about the good that content creators in gaming or otherwise have been doing. It's a discussion where there are obvious reasons why the bad press is happening, because there are very much a lot of problems with content creator culture and especially in gaming (MatPat admits the term "Youtuber" and "Youtube Gamer" is becoming PR Poison), but the main situation is that it affects all the good creators can do on their platform, and entirely unrelated creators and channels have to suffer for it.

Highlight Points:

- Google categorizes channels like The Game Theorist (11 million subs) at mid-tier and have entirely different divisions that provide a separate contact team for "Gaming-Tier" creators and one that provides for the "Top-Tier" content creators, despite numbers on paper for gaming dwarfing several "top-tier" genres.

- Jackscepticeye and Markiplier raised +$2 million combined in donations in 2018 (Markiplier's 500k Donation Drive in February is separately mentioned).

- $12 million of the +$20 million donated to charity through content creators in 2018 (as researched by MatPat through hundreds of submissions) were from Video Game Donation Streams, a fair amount of that money coming from hundreds of smaller channel streams.
- Influencers granted more than 400 Make-A-Wish Foundation requests.

- Ad pulls and over-correction towards digital creators and digital entertainers that are not even close to the current child predator debacles on Youtube is (in his opinion) a double standard due to how those same advertisers and media have no qualms of propping up Hollywood peeps like Johnny Depp (highly publicized allegations on domestic abuse) or Bryan Singer, director for the Oscar-winning Bohemian Rhapsody (allegations of sexual abuse towards minors).


Worth noting, there is also a segment on Pewdiepie and his own charity efforts over the years, which also mentions the recent $250k he raised for Indian Childs Rights in response to his own sect toxic and racist fans. Whether or not you have discontent or hatred for Pewdiepie for the things he's done or what content he puts out (personally not a fan in any sense of him), objectively you can commend his charity efforts. In the case of the examples in this video there, giving is giving, and that's still good. For what it's worth.

 

[Metalsnakezero]

It great that they do these charity but it could all be for show and Mat doesn't really confront the problems that pop up on his environment. There the whole thing with Boogie and his centrist BS and Mat himself for kinda enjoying right-wing fans with his Star wars video claiming the bad reviews from fans on the movie is about quality of the film but overlooking the hate group that was inflating it.

There also his bad joke on gender in one of his survey video where he allowed people to enter in a gender and in the video making fun of what was entered.
If he and his community want to be look in a better light they really need to address those problematic views.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Whether or not you have discontent or hatred for Pewdiepie for the things he's done or what content he puts out (personally not a fan), objectively you should commend his charity efforts.

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No, I fucking don't.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

It great that they do these charity but it could all be for show

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Are you really gonna conflate the hundreds of channels that individually decide to do charity streams to raise money as "all for show"? Keep in mind, there's obviously more creators that have bad shit going for them than the video spotlights, and conversely there's a lot more that don't. But that doesn't mean that the entirety of their efforts are for show to save some sort of face. (The brothers Paul are absolutely to save face though.)

No, I fucking don't.

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Well not should, "can" is the better word. Which you won't, that's fair.

 

[Metalsnakezero]

Are you really gonna conflate the hundreds of channels that individually decide to do charity streams to raise money as "all for show"?

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Charity is a easy thing to do when you have a large audience to back you. It really meaningfully when the creator themselves have a steak in it like Markiplier or Jirard Khalil who many charity runs are related to their events with their families or what happen to them. I know for sure Mark also took part in rallies like the women's march to help show support and what I want these creators to do is be active in larger events.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Charity is a easy thing to do when you have a large audience to back you. It really meaningfully when the creator themselves have a steak in it like Markiplier or Jirard Khalil who many charity runs are related to their events with their families or what happen to them. I know for sure Mark also took part in rallies like the women's march to help show support and what I want these creators to do is be active in larger events.

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But it's not just the big channels that bring in so much charity dough. It's the hundreds of other channels that expend their effort to raise money to charity, including the fraction presented in the video.

Like for me, relatively smaller channel like with Vinesauce (Vinesauce is Hope) or hbomberguy (Mermaid fundraiser) decided they wanted to do good with what following they had doing the thing they loved doing. They have a very solid following, but they aren't mega-channels like PDP or Game Grumps, or Markeplier. The big boys, sure. They each have a following that can turn into a donation tour-de-force is a lot easier to turn around with. You want them to go out for even broader events with more reach. But you're putting everyone else under the blanket of "doing it for show".

 

[Zacmortar]

This just in

A racist can donate a fraction of his money to look good

Hes still a racist

 

[Metalsnakezero]

But it's not just the big channels that bring in so much charity dough. It's the hundreds of other channels that expend their effort to raise money to charity, including the fraction presented in the video. The big boys, sure. You want them to go out for even broader events with more reach. But you're putting everyone else under the blanket of "doing it for show".

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I don't mean to blanket it to everyone and I'm happy to hear they are helping but the reality with charity is that it can only go so far.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

This just in

A racist can donate a fraction of his money to look good

Hes still a racist

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[tokubek]

You can have big money for big charity as much as you want - it doesn't make you "clean" and you still can be a racist/sexist/etc. Sure, it does help some people but I don't believe it means much coming from ppl like pew...

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I'm beginning to wonder if by warning that PDP was in the video I effectively lowkey done what everyone else is doing by allowing that to overshadow everyone else in this topic.

 

[Zacmortar]

I'm beginning to wonder if by warning that PDP was in the video I effectively lowkey done what everyone else is doing by allowing that to overshadow everyone else in this topic.

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To be fair, it's his fault for including anything on PDP at all. My post was directed at him, not you.

I'd be more understanding and down for this topic if he hadn't slipped in a wildly controversial and consistently relevant bigot purely because he's famous. But putting PDP in shows a fault in his moral judgement and taints his view on the rest of the content for me as I'm less likely to listen to an apologist than just someone talking about a important topic.

 

[tokubek]

I'm beginning to wonder if by warning that PDP was in the video I effectively lowkey done what everyone else is doing by allowing that to overshadow everyone else in this topic.

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I mean he prominently featured in this video.

To be fair, it's his fault for including anything on PDP at all. My post was directed at him, not you.

I'd be more understanding and down for this topic if he hadn't slipped in a wildly controversial and consistently relevant bigot purely because he's famous. But putting PDP in shows a fault in his moral judgement and taints his view on the rest of the content for me as I'm less likely to listen to an apologist than just someone talking about a important topic.

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This.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

But putting PDP in shows a fault in his moral judgement and taints his view on the rest of the content for me as I'm less likely to listen to an apologist than just someone talking about a important topic.

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Personally I saw it as an "Even this guy" segment since he's pretty much one of the most visible examples you can use to disregard video game content creators, but yeah I get what you mean.

 

[Razorrin]

I get that we need to respect the hard work of content creators in the same pool as the huge dickheads for their contributions, but so much that he describes as "praiseworthy," is very cost effective PR for channels as popular and problematic as Pewdiepie, and as a user pointed out earlier, using a fraction of vast wealth to throw at a cause is honestly cheap.

You want forgiveness? Put in the real hard work of curating your problematic fan base, holding yourself to higher standards and Actually enforcing those standards, rather then the tired "oh darn, did it again" bull, and applying your fame and wealth to things that ACTUALLY help long term, like supporting positive, progressive politics, and denouncing particular super problematic groups and movements, like Anti-Vax or the Gun Lobby.

Money, funny enough, is cheap. Put you money where your Mouth is, and it'll all go up in value.

I mean, what the heck are your fans going to do? If they love you so unconditionally, you can already get them to do anything for you, freaking channel that into something positive! None of these big channels understand the power they have to do stuff like this!

 

[Metalsnakezero]

I get that we need to respect the hard work of content creators in the same pool as the huge dickheads for their contributions, but so much that he describes as "praiseworthy," is very cost effective PR for channels as popular and problematic as Pewdiepie, and as a user pointed out earlier, using a fraction of vast wealth to throw at a cause is honestly cheap.

You want forgiveness? Put in the real hard work of curating your problematic fan base, holding yourself to higher standards and Actually enforcing those standards, rather then the tired "oh darn, did it again" bull, and applying your fame and wealth to things that ACTUALLY help long term, like supporting positive, progressive politics, and denouncing particular super problematic groups and movements, like Anti-Vax or the Gun Lobby.

Money, funny enough, is cheap. Put you money where your Mouth is, and it'll all go up in value.

I mean, what the heck are your fans going to do? If they love you so unconditionally, you can already get them to do anything for you, freaking channel that into something positive! None of these big channels understand the power they have to do stuff like this!

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That my thoughts about it too. I look to Jirard Khalil who built a team of diverse people even if they doesn't public talks about it but it shows in his videos he and his team makes and avoids bad jokes that could harm others.

And no not all creators can build to that level but what they can do is open themselves to different groups, new ideas, and keeping up with current events. I feel that those who make these major mistakes are those who limit their view and don't keep up what going on in the world.

 

[SageShinigami]

Highlight Points:

- Google categorizes channels like The Game Theorist (11 million subs) at mid-tier and have entirely different divisions that provide a separate contact team for "Gaming-Tier" creators and one that provides for the "Top-Tier" content creators, despite numbers on paper for gaming dwarfing several "top-tier" genres.

- Ad pulls and over-correction towards digital creators and digital entertainers that are not even close to the current child predator debacles on Youtube is (in his opinion) a double standard due to how those same advertisers and media have no qualms of propping up Hollywood peeps like Johnny Depp (highly publicized allegations on domestic abuse) or Bryan Singer, director for the Oscar-winning Bohemian Rhapsody (allegations of sexual abuse towards minors).

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- It's fascinating to me that gaming (and really comics and anime and all genre stuff) seems to generate no real money. You wanna review other shit like food, fashion? They cut some checks. But YouTubers and writers for geek shit are either working for free, garbage wages, or well below what you'd think they would get. Of course there's always some exceptions.

- Yeah, they've definitely moved faster on YouTube than they ever have for Hollywood. But that's because one's YouTube as a whole and the other is just some individuals.

 

[Sec0nd]

I guess I can kind of agree with the fact that YouTube has a different 'tier' for gaming.

Although these kind of creators bring a lot of value, be it through information or personality, it's always reactionary to other work. Commentating rather than creating. Which kind of puts it in a weird spot. I'd much rather have YouTube put more resources to other kind of kind of content creators. I think that's both a lot more healthy for the platform and potential audience.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

- It's fascinating to me that gaming (and really comics and anime and all genre stuff) seems to generate no real money. You wanna review other shit like food, fashion? They cut some checks. But YouTubers and writers for geek shit are either working for free, garbage wages, or well below what you'd think they would get. Of course there's always some exceptions.

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Yep. As a writer myself, I picked the absolute worst industry to be passionate about.

Shit ain't worth it unless you happen to be one of the exceptions.

 

[SageShinigami]

Yep. As a writer myself, I picked the absolute worst industry to be passionate about.

Shit ain't worth it unless you happen to be one of the exceptions.

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Same. I always think other places are better paying, but they (so far) never are.

 

[Toxi]

Man with annual income of 15 million dollars raises 250k of other people's money for charity.

 

[Nightbird]

I watched the video.
For everyone concerned about it being 20 Minutes of "leave Pewdiepie alone!": Don't worry, that's not what this is about.

And I see the point he's making.Even tough Gaming is a huge pillar of YouTube, Google (as well as advertisers) are doing their best to avoid the gaming sector of YouTube, being awfully quick to pull out as soon as something happens, yet, for some reason, other media can get away with a lot more and more awful shit.

It's basically a ton of whataboutism, but even so, it's a legit point to make.

 

[Squid Bunny]

Charity is not a free pass for bad behavior.

MatPat's enabling of PewDiePie (he did that whole subscribe to pewdiepie thing) is freaking awful and he should be ashamed of it.

 

[Dyle]

The issue is that it's the very people who are biggest in the field, like PDP, who poison the well for everyone. As long as they're around and the general culture around gaming is predominantly toxic in a way that even similar fields (popular films, comics, etc.) aren't, that money isn't ever going to make it towards gaming, as advertisers, sponsors, and content distributors rightfully don't actively or passively want to support them. Is the field being mistreated? Sure, but the very reason they are is because so many prominent figures or large subsets of the community keep putting their foot in their mouth and acting like assholes and because the medium is young and unestabilshed it's easier to pull support than music, film, or TV.

The idea that giving to charity lets a person off the hook for any moral failings of their work is laughable though, it's the same kind of mindset that says that as long as the robber barons eventually donate their profits to good causes they should still be allowed to hoard their wealth. If the biggest gaming influencer could only raise 250k when a relative nobody like hbomberguy could raise 300k then you really need to reevaluate how charitable they, and their fanbase, actually are.

 

[TheThirstyMage]

The half full way to view this video is that regardless of the intent of the charity drives it should be acknowledged that people in need are getting assistance. By pointing out when these drives happen and shining a spotlight on them we can make sure people in need are receiving assistance. I think he's just saying don't ignore the charity drive based on the person whose hosting it.

 

[mael]

Worth noting, there is also a segment on Pewdiepie and his own charity efforts, which also mentions the $250k he raised for Indian Childs Rights in response to his own sect toxic and racist fans. Whether or not you have discontent or hatred for Pewdiepie for the things he's done or what content he puts out (personally not a fan in any sense of him), objectively you can commend his charity efforts. In the case of the examples in this video there, giving is giving, and that's still good. For what it's worth.

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No I won't thank Al Capone for building an hospital for the poor and doing charity drive while maintaining his crime empire.
For heaven's sake, Indulgences are supposed to be a catholic thing, English speaking people should know how you can't buy a conscience.

 

[danmaku]

I watched the video.
For everyone concerned about it being 20 Minutes of "leave Pewdiepie alone!": Don't worry, that's not what this is about.

And I see the point he's making.Even tough Gaming is a huge pillar of YouTube, Google (as well as advertisers) are doing their best to avoid the gaming sector of YouTube, being awfully quick to pull out as soon as something happens, yet, for some reason, other media can get away with a lot more and more awful shit.

It's basically a ton of whataboutism, but even so, it's a legit point to make.

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It would be a legit point as a criticism of other media, not as a criticism of Youtube for being "too strict" with content creators. They should be even more strict, considering some of these creators have kids as target audience.

 

[mael]

It would be a legit point as a criticism of other media, not as a criticism of Youtube for being "too strict" with content creators. They should be even more strict, considering some of these creators have kids as target audience.

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Turns out advertisers are very sensitive to being attached to anything targeting kids and making sure they don't get angry parents on their throats.
On regular TV you can't have that for various reasons and this is really one of them.
If youtube isn't "strict" on people targeting kids or adjacent, advertisers WILL pull out eventually.

 

[Kaswa101]

Man this thread is so negative. Then again that's basically every thread on Era lol

 

[mael]

Man this thread is so negative. Then again that's basically every thread on Era lol

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Yeah like the thread about THQN endorsing white supremacy and promoting child pornography, that was really way too negative!
People should lighten up!

 

[Sorian]

This just in

A racist can donate a fraction of his money to look good

Hes still a racist

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On the one hand, yes, on the other hand, a starving kid somewhere in the world finally getting a good meal doesn't give a shit where that money came from.

 

[mael]

On the one hand, yes, on the other hand, a starving kid somewhere in the world finally getting a good meal doesn't give a shit where that money came from.

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I heard Putin fed his dog once, that means he's a great guy, right?
Also in the case of PDP he spent other people's money to feed the starving kid so really that's not such a silver bullet to show how good of a guy he is.

 

[Wolfgunblood]

I'm so weary of shitheels being absolved of everything because they engaged in philanthropy.

 

[Nightbird]

I heard Putin fed his dog once, that means he's a great guy, right?
Also in the case of PDP he spent other people's money to feed the starving kid so really that's not such a silver bullet to show how good of a guy he is.

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Oh stop it, you don't have to dislike the guy less just because you're acknowledging that he also did a good thing.

I, for one, think that the charities he did were really good. Doesn't change that to me he's still a racist shitheel, who is redpilling children and thus should get his channel deleted.

 

[mael]

Oh stop it, you don't have to dislike the guy less just because you're acknowledging that he also did a good thing.

I, for one, think that the charities he did were really good. Doesn't change that to me he's still a racist shitheel, who is redpilling children and thus should get his channel deleted.

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I'm acknowledging the fact that he's just doing this to try clean his name off and that's about it.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant.
Charities should never be something a a shithead does to try to look good.

 

[Twentieth]

Man this thread is so negative. Then again that's basically every thread on Era lol

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I see posters being critical, not negative. It's pretty fair to question charity drives as PR campaigns (such as PDP case) when they refuse to stop their toxic behaviour and promoting the "bad parts" of their communities.

Gaming channels have got a bad reputation for a reason, one that the video in the OP failed to carefully consider.

 

[Nightbird]

I'm acknowledging the fact that he's just doing this to try clean his name off and that's about it.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant.
Charities should never be something a a shithead does to try to look good.

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Ah alright, I understood the initial post as Sweeping the charities under the rug.
I think no one (at least here) will deny that those have been made with the primary goal of clearing his name.
Again, I just can talk for myself but while I appreciate the charity efforts, it won't clear his name for me. Not even a little bit.

 

[Leo-Tyrant]

I'm acknowledging the fact that he's just doing this to try clean his name off and that's about it.
Whether I like him or not is irrelevant.
Charities should never be something a a shithead does to try to look good.

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That´s still $250.000 that weren't there before, injected into a very good and noble cause. Kids are probably being saved or at least will have better quality of life (for a while), thanks to this.

Pewdiepie is full of problems but that particular action was good, I fail to see how you are focusing on the person behind the intent instead of the actual value of the action.

 

[mael]

Ah alright, I understood the initial post as Sweeping the charities under the rug.
I think no one (at least here) will deny that those have been made with the primary goal of clearing his name.
Again, I just can talk for myself but while I appreciate the charity efforts, it won't clear his name for me. Not even a little bit.

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It's basically a modern day indulgence expense, heck he can get tax credit for that and enrich himself while spending someone else's money.

That´s still $250.000 that weren't there before, injected into a very good and noble cause. Kids are probably being saved or at least will have better quality of life (for a while), thanks to this.

Pewdiepie is full of problems but that particular action was good, I fail to see how you are focusing on the person behind the intent instead of the actual value of the action.

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Because the action is basically a PR move.
It's no different from a drug lord using his ill gotten gains to build a hospital to look good.
Sure the people helped by the hospital are grateful but you can't possibly claim that the whole thing is a net good.
Again this is basically buying indulgences to try to get in heaven.

 

[Leo-Tyrant]

It's basically a modern day indulgence expense, heck he can get tax credit for that and enrich himself while spending someone else's money.


Because the action is basically a PR move.
It's no different from a drug lord using his ill gotten gains to build a hospital to look good.
Sure the people helped by the hospital are grateful but you can't possibly claim that the whole thing is a net good.
Again this is basically buying indulgences to try to get in heaven.

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I understand your point but I do believe that the overall net result is "good" for the benefited kids. The origin of the intent may be shady, but results are good for actual human beings in need.

 

[mael]

I understand your point but I do believe that the overall net result is "good" for the benefited kids. The origin of the intent may be shady, but results are good for actual human beings in need.

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If you ask me, it is an indictment of our society that there are starving kids that can only be fed because some asshole feels like getting some good PR some day.

 

[Kaswa101]

Yeah like the thread about THQN endorsing white supremacy and promoting child pornography, that was really way too negative!
People should lighten up!

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Yes, because that's totally related to this topic! /s

 

[The Adder]

MatPat runs a PR ad for his buddies. What's new?

 

[Zacmortar]

On the one hand, yes, on the other hand, a starving kid somewhere in the world finally getting a good meal doesn't give a shit where that money came from.

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Nice strawman

 

[mael]

Yes, because that's totally related to this topic! /s

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Hey that's a thread on ERA, after all ERA is always negative for no reason, right?

 

[Deleted member 5865]

MatPat runs a PR ad for his buddies. What's new?

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Im pretty sure Mat said he was PDP's friend or something of the sort so I understand why he's less hard on him than others

 

[Plywood]

Yawn, this seems to handwave any behavior of theirs that gets them negative perception in the first place, b-but charity! Yeah, that's great, (it really is) but they also need to own the responsibility of their occupation. You say as an influencer you want that same reputation as others? Then realize and correct yourself when you influence ignorant shit because even when they try to handwave it off as jokes they never seem to understand that they're influencing some kid who will spread that bile.

Spoiler

This isn't to throw all them under the bus, but I'm p. sure I saw Keemstar and PDP in that vid so yeah, c'mon now.

 

[Unknownlight]

Man, no wonder the rest of the internet hates Era.

 

[nillansan]

Man, no wonder the rest of the internet hates Era.

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It's PR, simple as that. An attempt to obfuscate the very problematic behaviour of some of these content creators.

 

[Surface of Me]

Lol at comparing PDP to Al Capone, "drug lords", and Vladimir fucking Putin.