The Guardian: "How white women use strategic tears to avoid accountability"

[4859]

Are you suggesting that just BECAUSE they are white they are automatically a participant in the system?

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Yes, yes we are. Although participant can be seen as the wrong word in certain contexts, so let's Clear that up. Use it in the context of those participation ribbons your schools used to give out, where even if you didn't give a shit about the stupid event, and didn' even attempt to run or do the sack hop, they still gave you that fucking participation ribbon.

It's the participation ribbon that is our white privilege, except being in the form of a shitty green ribbon, it's in the form of a massive societal halo effect.

 

[Powdered Egg]

White women's tears during race discussions are just the worst. Years ago my sister in law combed a Black girl's hair, had trouble with it and straight up called her hair unfortunate, in front of the girl too. My wife confronted her about it, "defense defense defense lalalalla I'm not listening". That dummy brought it up years later around me, I calmly explained why what she said was wrong and she pulled so many nonsensical bullshit excuses around the idea that it wasn't racist or harmful because she didn't mean anything bad by it. Then she dropped the white woman smoke pellet by sobbing like a baby and running out the room. My fucking goodness, a "Proud Liberal" too! I have an intellectual bounty on her head and will go hard in the paint if she says something else dumb around me.

This is part of the reason why I have no faith in White Liberals. Any Liberal that grew up in segregated, White only environments are at a huge disadvantage in understanding race and tend to believe in the same harmful stereotypes and nonsense about a people they never interact with. God bless the white people who get it.

 

[The Kree]

Why the LOL then?

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I'm laughing at the irony of the direction of the discussion.

 

[mikehaggar]

To clarify my point, there needs to be a contextualization of what being "racist" entails. It's not a binary state, but a very complicated spectrum. I do not presume every white person I meet are hood wearing, cross burning assholes. We've associated "racist" with the most vicious and despicable people so to see the label applied more liberally offends our sensibilities. In the same way a woman has to be cautious of a man, LGB people have to be conscious of hetero people, and trans folk have to be conscious of cis people, as a person of color (but more specifically a black man), I have to be cautious of white people. That doesn't mean that I physically avoid yall. It means that I enter new situations with reservation and caution because I have to be. Thats the system by which whiteness has created. I have to watch what I say, mind my body language, because until you really know a white person (and even then), you never know when they might finally decide to use that whiteness against you (or against other people). It's the subtleties of interactions and relationships, not me literally crossing the street at night or refusing to touch yall.

Now, "that sounds awfully like you're stereotyping white people like white people do black people". But imagine this. By even making that comparison, you give a smidge of validity to stereotypes that are verifiably untrue. Because I don't attribute the source of my caution to the inherent pathology of white people (as in, the color of your skin), but the system of white supremacy. And I don't know how unplugged you are from that system when I first meet you. So I have to be on guard. That doesn't mean you are a bad person inherently, but rather figuring out just how conscious are you of your own privileges.

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I can understand that.

 

[woman]

It's a disadvantage to conversation, which is the only thing anyone has besides violence. I'm not here to say white people are oppressed like minorities, and I think the slow slide into bringing actual disadvantage into this topic is a deflection tactic. It's okay to posit that turning whiteness into a negative thing is a problem for interracial discussion. It does not mean we can't discuss systemic racism.

By the way, we're not talking about a Coates essay here. We're talking about someone who said "white people are shit." That's the context.

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But whiteness is a negative thing ddd. For there to be "white people" there must be races of people beneath them. I'm not talking about white as a phenotype, but the idea that there is a race of white people.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The key difference being that it never comes bundled with Jim Crow laws for white people.

I get that it sucks, but it's an abstract inconvenience for white people who could really just take it on the chin and keep on enjoying their whiteness.

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Here's the thing... from my perspective it doesn't quite work.

When I was young i was born looking a little different. White, but just outside of what others considered aesthetically average. The kind of different that results in broken bones, punches, being strangled for fun, a decade of verbal abuse, etc. The behaviour that turns a kid that loved to dance into a miserable insular misanthrope that will likely never know happiness. And you know what? At no point did "the system" help me.

The hatred I have as a result of those experiences burns within me. And you know the kicker? The people responsible were all white. All. I benefit from that privilege enough to avoid many things but I'm different enough that I'm judged for it. Jobs gone, interviews wasted, relationships that never start because... I'm a little different.

Can you imagine how it makes me feel when I watch shows like "Dear White People" and they tell me that because I'm white I'm inherently a part of a system that I hate with every fibre of my being? Upset doesn't begin to cover it.

 

[Deleted member 907]

Already got white people in this thread feeling personally attacked and making this about themselves smh

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It's the usual suspects too...lolz

 

[JeTmAn]

There is no statement that is critical of white people that is going to go over well, no matter how carefully worded. It's not really the words that matter. We've seen white people get offended for far less inflammatory shit. There's a double standard at work when there's no net benefit to being racially sensitive towards white people when they're routinely allowed to be apathetic in the other direction. That's why I find it hard to begrudge a person of color who cuts to the chase and uses a shorthand.

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It's almost as if making critical statements about groups composed of hundreds of millions of people is entirely pointless.

 

[BossAttack]

If you make it about all people of a certain classification, people are going to take it as about all people of that classification. The whole "when I mean ___ people I mean" deflection is nonsense, and this op-ed is a perfect example of how there's no argument against their logic because any response is fitting into their script for dismissal. You cannot object to their argument, because then you're making it about yourself. You cannot feel any anger or sadness about it, because then you're trying to curry sympathy. You cannot participate at all, because then you're silencing other voices.

At the very least, the sentiment in this thread that people should be treated equally but relishing in white tears shows a level of cognitive dissonance or at least a tacit understanding that they like shitting on people for their intrinsic characteristics as long as its not them being shit upon. In the world we live in, I get the feeling. Them being shitty doesn't invalidate the continued problems of racism and prejudice they are disproportionately more likely to face. It still doesn't make them any less shitty for thinking it.

I won't argue against the idea that some people, consciously or not, use expressions of grief to deflect or garner sympathy—babies cry for a reason, on some level it's an instinctual response. And regardless of that response being genuine, it doesn't change the merits or lack thereof of their argument, or if it is derailing the point. But the entire framing of the incident in the OP as "woman got upset for no reason at all" is a highly selective reading of said event.

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Because sometimes there isn't an argument. Not everything is a debate. Not everything is about YOU. Sometimes a piece is used to educate so that others can understand what PoC go through on a daily basis, the obstacles they have to overcome, and hardships they continually bear. When someone points out that "white women tend to strategically use tears to deflect criticism or avoid blame from PoC," you don't need to make it about you and go, "well, NotAllWhitePeople!" It's not a damn debate, it's a lesson. You're now aware of this tactic, whether it is applied consciously or unconsciously, you can either work to insure that you aren't part of the problem or ignore it and get hurt because this information has been presented to you.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

Many white people cannot even confront the idea of whiteness because they’re not willing (or able) to reckon with the reality that they’re a participant in the system.

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We often feel like we are perfectly rational actors residing in our society, not a product of our society. It's instilled in us when were young and reinforced our entire lives by people who share our experiences. Getting a white person to change their worldview is... exhausting.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

Perk literally activates at birth and runs in the background for the duration of the user's life and death.

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It's literally a +5 enchantment to not being bothered by cops and being followed by mall security.

Locked my keys in my car once. I had those old knob pull up locks. I was using a shoestring with a loop tied into it to catch and pull up on theock. A police officer sees me breaking into my car and asked if I needed some help. He used a what ever those lock pick bars are called to pop my lock for me.

I couldn't even imagine how that would have played out if I wasn't a white guy.

 

[Deepwater]

Ehhh. White people benefiting from racism is one thing (that's white privilege), but saying "to be white is to be racist" is just... no.

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see my previous post, being racist is not a binary state. It doesn't mean that white people are inherently evil, but ascribe to beliefs and actions that benefit white supremacy in some shape, way or form.

 

[Deleted member 225]

White people do not like being reminded they are in a position of privilege even by other white people

I have been called a racist for making comments about white people, and I’m white.

 

[Urban Scholar]

This video is still as relevant as ever:

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Yes this video is very relevant to the topic.

In my experience nearly all the women of color I know have experienced this.

Hell last week a mutual (the only black woman in her department) was told they didn't believe her and took the other party's word.

 

[fireflame]

I don't like to refer to any people by skin's color.

 

[GameShrink]

Dunn makes some valid points, and I can empathize with her frustration.

However, this:

Someone saying "white people are shit"(whether that was used or not) or using terms like "white people tears" is actively living out their racial biases by stereotyping, negatively generalizing and insulting people by their skin color. It does not get any less offensive and racist by then shouting "LMAO, look at the white fragility!" or emitting similar hot air whenever somone dares to criticize it. These specific agitators do not want constructive discussions and they will not get it. You are putting people under general conspicion and acting as if there is some sort of "debt" because of skin color, the result being that in the real world and outside your close social bubble absolutely nobody is going to take you seriously. Talk to me like I am a human being and I will also talk to you like you are a human being. If you come with an attitude of "you suck and I enjoy the tears of your kind" I'm going to tell you to fuck off. And now I guess cue the "ah he doesn't see color! lmao" or tonepolicing claims.

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...is the reality of the situation. Dunn is silly for using hostile language and then saying "I can't believe you got upset and took attention away from my points!" The article is also intentionally obscuring the actual quote, which does seem to be inflammatory. The white woman's response was at least somewhat justified.

It's not a damn debate, it's a lesson. You're now aware of this tactic, whether it is applied consciously or unconsciously, you can either work to insure that you aren't part of the problem or ignore it and get hurt because this information has been presented to you.

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And it seems like, time and time again, the vast majority of people choose the latter. So this strategy isn't working and the presentation of said "lesson" must be revised.

 

[Deleted member 2226]

Because sometimes there isn't an argument. Not everything is a debate. Not everything is about YOU. Sometimes a piece is used to educate so that others can understand what PoC go through on a daily basis, the obstacles they have to overcome, and hardships they continually bear. When someone points out that "white women tend to strategically use tears to deflect criticism or avoid blame from PoC," you don't need to make it about you and go, "well, NotAllWhitePeople!" It's not a damn debate, it's a lesson. You're now aware of this tactic, whether it is applied consciously or unconsciously, you can either work to insure that you aren't part of the problem or ignore it and get hurt because this information has been presented to you.

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I think that's a reasonable take, but that's different from saying "white people are shit".

 

[JustinP]

Here's the thing... from my perspective it doesn't quite work.

When I was young i was born looking a little different. White, but just outside of what others considered aesthetically average. The kind of different that results in broken bones, punches, being strangled for fun, a decade of verbal abuse, etc. The behaviour that turns a kid that loved to dance into a miserable insular misanthrope that will likely never know happiness. And you know what? At no point did "the system" help me.

The hatred I have as a result of those experiences burns within me. And you know the kicker? The people responsible were all white. All. I benefit from that privilege enough to avoid many things but I'm different enough that I'm judged for it. Jobs gone, interviews wasted, relationships that never start because... I'm a little different.

Can you imagine how it makes me feel when I watch shows like "Dear White People" and they tell me that because I'm white I'm inherently a part of a system that I hate with every fibre of my being? Upset doesn't begin to cover it.

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Imagine being non-white on top of that. Having to deal with your hardships AND having to deal with modern day racism.

White privilege doesn’t mean white people never deal with hardships in general, it means they have the privilege of not having to deal with hardships resulting from them simply being born white.

 

[Deleted member 176]

I don't like to refer to any people by skin's color.

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That seems close-minded. It's an important part of an individual's identity.

 

[infinite]

see my previous post, being racist is not a binary state. It doesn't mean that white people are inherently evil, but ascribe to beliefs and actions that benefit white supremacy in some shape, way or form.

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Being titled white in this context is inherently racist just in and of itself to add to your point

 

[Westbahnhof]

There is no statement that is critical of white people that is going to go over well, no matter how carefully worded. It's not really the words that matter. We've seen white people get offended for far less inflammatory shit. There's a double standard at work when there's no net benefit to being racially sensitive towards white people when they're routinely allowed to be apathetic in the other direction. That's why I find it hard to begrudge a person of color who cuts to the chase and uses a shorthand.

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What's up with this circular logic?
"People are going to be offended, so I might as well be legit insulting and overgeneralizing"? Really?
How about we try to keep using nuanced phrasing instead?

 

[Fauxpaw]

Are you suggesting that just BECAUSE they are white they are automatically a participant in the system?

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White woman here. When I do work in my yard, I will not be stopped by police. My black friends will (and have). I don't have to worry about my future son getting shot by police because he was buying candy. I don't have to sit my kids down and give them "the talk". I have never been hassled by police, I've only been followed in a store once (as a goth teen lolol), I don't get weird looks in certain shops, and I don't have people asking to touch my hair. I grew up in a white neighborhood not cut off from emergency services, nor actual family planning facilities. My parents were given loans not available to many POC. My family has had drug issues, yet they have not suffered nearly as much as if they were black. In fact, I probably have family members that would have died had they been black. There is a sympathy for white drug users, from police and society, that black people absolutely do not get. Further, I am given more job opportunities based on my race. There is more than likely a time in my life that I was given a job over a more-qualified POC because I am white and pretty. I also am helped more in school. People will tend to think I'm smarter or more serious about school than my black counterparts, and thus I get more attention and time with a teacher.

Being a woman, I am held back by a lot in society, and there is a serious mental toll that comes with that. It fucking sucks. So aside from the very tangible effects I listed above, there is the giant emotional weight that all black people have to shoulder. When people come in here with "not I! This is not me!" they are only helping themselves. They are not helping the PoC they claim to care about. It's all about them and how their feelings are hurt. Meanwhile, PoC are oppressed and killed, but they have to play nice for people to pretend to care? They've "played nice" for generations. Nothing happens until you confront the privileges of race, including your own. When you "play nice", people are more than happy to pretend that problems no longer exist. It took Donald Trump for many people to finally accept of fraction of how racist and bigoted this country really is.

PS: Actual racists love to "Not I" as well. By repeating that line and putting yourself first you, as a white person, are giving the racists an out and a cover.

 

[fireflame]

That seems close-minded. It's an important part of an individual's identity.

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In the context it feels an attempt to generalize, the same way you will say millenials,etc;using a specific characteristic like age, color or skin,social category, et can be part of a genuine social study, but a lot of times it feels like an attempt to capitalize on a generalization.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This is a pretty lazy "why are you hitting yourself" fallacy, and the type of dumb shit that happens when ideas are not challenged/debated, when people retreat into carefully curated intellectual bubbles, etc. You don't get to denigrate people and then accuse them of making the conversation about themselves when they dare to..take offense at what you just said about them. I shouldn't have to explain why apparently saying "white people are shit" might offend a white person.

Strategic crying is not a white woman exclusive thing. I'd say sure, I've seen it happen. I've also seen black and Hispanic women do that. And children. And some men.

 

[The Kree]

Here's the thing... from my perspective it doesn't quite work.

When I was young i was born looking a little different. White, but just outside of what others considered aesthetically average. The kind of different that results in broken bones, punches, being strangled for fun, a decade of verbal abuse, etc. The behaviour that turns a kid that loved to dance into a miserable insular misanthrope that will likely never know happiness. And you know what? At no point did "the system" help me.

The hatred I have as a result of those experiences burns within me. And you know the kicker? The people responsible were all white. All. I benefit from that privilege enough to avoid many things but I'm different enough that I'm judged for it. Jobs gone, interviews wasted, relationships that never start because... I'm a little different.

Can you imagine how it makes me feel when I watch shows like "Dear White People" and they tell me that because I'm white I'm inherently a part of a system that I hate with every fibre of my being? Upset doesn't begin to cover it.

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There ultimately is no path forward if your personal discomfort comes before dismantling this system you claim to hate. That's not just a you problem, that's an everybody problem. It's always me, me, me and never us. You're acknowledging a systemic problem, but you're still taking a personal offense. What are any of us supposed to do about that? We can't cater to everyone's individual sensitivity level. It's not doable. And, no offense intended, truly, but I see white people in thread nowhere near as upset about the subject, so, all things being relative, and with respect to your own predicament, you could maybe still shrug it off.

 

[Deleted member 176]

In the context it feels an attempt to generalize, the same way you will say millenials,etc;using a specific characteristic like age, color or skin,social category, et can be part of a genuine social study, but a lot of times it feels like an attempt to capitalize on a generalization.

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Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for clarifying!

 

[Deleted member 835]

People do realise "white people are shit" is the same as when women say "men are shit". Not every white person is shit, but damn there are a lot of people that are. If it doesn't apply to you then why get upset about it?

 

[Grouch Douglass]

This thread is about white women in general not about specific posters in this thread that are suddenly feeling offended.

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This makes no sense. How can you make a blanket statement about white women and then say it doesn't apply to said white women who participate in this thread? Which race would be fine with blanket statements meant to insult people only because they are a member of said race. Stereotyping people negatively based solely on race is wrong altogether.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

Five things:
1. The article fails by omitting and misrepresenting the quote, which from the Twitter transcript we see as having been said by Winnie Dunn -- that most white people are shit. The person asking the question did not misunderstand the quote or conflate it to be insulted.
2. Being personally offended when your "group" is generally denigrated is reasonable. The retort of "Well why did you make it personally about *you?*" is hypocritical because that's exactly what they would do if the tables were turned.
3. "Strategic Tears" is a poor label. It implies that it's a conscious tactic, when really it's genuinely felt distress that is born out of ignorance and a lack of perspective. I would call them "Ignorant Tears" or "Self-Centered Tears."
4. The argument of "Why do I have to be nice to you for you to be on my side?" is illogical. It's not reasonable to think that you can win very many people over by denigrating them along the way.
5. The Jully Black and Jeanne Beker clip is a much much better example.

 

[woman]

We don't even know what the quote was and people are assuming it's "white people are shit".

 

[Ralemont]

There is no statement that is critical of white people that is going to go over well, no matter how carefully worded. It's not really the words that matter. We've seen white people get offended for far less inflammatory shit. There's a double standard at work when there's no net benefit to being racially sensitive towards white people when they're routinely allowed to be apathetic in the other direction. That's why I find it hard to begrudge a person of color who cuts to the chase and uses a shorthand.

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The words absolutely matter for some people. I love reading long-form pieces about the issues in today's society and feel like I've learned a lot by doing so. I don't learn anything from someone saying "white people are shit." It's pure laziness, plain and simple. If you consider that subset of people who are willing to listen to an intelligent piece but discount a stupid statement- even if both are ultimately saying the same thing - is so small that you could really give a shit less about me, then okay. I wish you the best in that.

 

[Hank Hill]

People do realise "white people are shit" is the same as when women say "men are shit". Not every white person is shit, but damn there are a lot of people that are. If it doesn't apply to you then why get upset about it?

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What if we replace white with black or other race?Would that also be ok?

 

[RedValkyrie]

Ugh, see this shit all the time on Shark Tank.

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Give a break with those fake ass tears.

 

[Raven117]

White woman here. When I do work in my yard, I will not be stopped by police. My black friends will (and have). I don't have to worry about my future son getting shot by police because he was buying candy. I don't have to sit my kids down and give them "the talk". I have never been hassled by police, I've only been followed in a store once (as a goth teen lolol), I don't get weird looks in certain shops, and I don't have people asking to touch my hair. I grew up in a white neighborhood not cut off from emergency services, nor actual family planning facilities. My parents were given loans not available to many POC. My family has had drug issues, yet they have not suffered nearly as much as if they were black. In fact, I probably have family members that would have died had they been black. There is a sympathy for white drug users, from police and society, that black people absolutely do not get. Further, I am given more job opportunities based on my race. There is more than likely a time in my life that I was given a job over a more-qualified POC because I am white and pretty. I also am helped more in school. People will tend to think I'm smarter or more serious about school than my black counterparts, and thus I get more attention and time with a teacher.

Being a woman, I am held back by a lot in society, and there is a serious mental toll that comes with that. It fucking sucks. So aside from the very tangible effects I listed above, there is the giant emotional weight that all black people have to shoulder. When people come in here with "not I! This is not me!" they are only helping themselves. They are not helping the PoC they claim to care about. It's all about them and how their feelings are hurt. Meanwhile, PoC are oppressed and killed, but they have to play nice for people to pretend to care? They've "played nice" for generations. Nothing happens until you confront the privileges of race, including your own. When you "play nice", people are more than happy to pretend that problems no longer exist. It took Donald Trump for many people to finally accept of fraction of how racist and bigoted this country really is.

PS: Actual racists love to "Not I" as well. By repeating that line and putting yourself first you, as a white person, are giving the racists an out and a cover.

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Why did you add this sentence? Especially in light of the first paragraph?

 

[Deleted member 907]

What if we replace white with black or other race?Would that also be ok?

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No. Next question.

 

[infinite]

People do realise "white people are shit" is the same as when women say "men are shit". Not every white person is shit, but damn there are a lot of people that are. If it doesn't apply to you then why get upset about it?

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Eh I think people do get it but enough people don’t to where saying this is just a nonstarter. I think I can articulate what I need to say on racial matters without the need to say “white . women suck” especially if that means I’ll have to explain what I’m saying to people who don’t get it. Not the hill I wanna die on

 

[Westbahnhof]

People do realise "white people are shit" is the same as when women say "men are shit". Not every white person is shit, but damn there are a lot of people that are. If it doesn't apply to you then why get upset about it?

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Why say it if it doesn't apply to anyone?
I never understood this reasoning.
Why are generalized insults okay if someone says "I didn't mean exactly what my words implied"?
Even if I use hyperbole, and a person tells me this isn't fair/correct, my first instinct is to apologize and explain it was hyperbole. Not tell them they shouldn't feel addressed.

 

[BossAttack]

I think that's a reasonable take, but that's different from saying "white people are shit".

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That's true, I'm usually okay with that stuff as a joking Twitter post. But, within an actual article you shouldn't try and shit post. Still, it's merely a joke that hides the anger and frustration PoC feel due to their treatment by white people who benefit from and actively use the system they've created for themselves. Is it a racist joke? By definition yes, you're lumping all white people together and saying "you're a piece of shit." But, at the same time, little racist jokes (especially over the internet) have no real effect on white people. Racism isn't truly horrible until it is coupled with oppression. Black folk can go on Twitter all day and spam, "white people are the devil" til their fingers drop off. But, that's not going to suddenly upend the system where white people are suddenly treated as inferior or face negative consequences based solely on their skin pigmentation. These little "jokes," are tiny barks with no actual bite.

On the other hand, racist jokes directed towards PoC are different because it is coupled with oppression. It's a bark and a big ol' bite. There is a reason the expression exists, "don't punch down." Yes, it can feel uncomfortable that a bunch of people on the bottom are punching up towards the sky at you. But, wen your sitting on your golden throne at the top of the pyramid where those punches can never reach you. Well, nobody really wants to hear how much those cries of those at the bottom being crushed under your weight hurt you.

 

[TerminusFox]

I haven’t gotten that far into Vol 2, so I can’t address that specifically, but the way I look at it, systematic racism by its nature is baked into life, and that as white people, we benefit from privilege regardless of our intent. So much of it is invisible. We participate in systemic racism by nature of being white (in America at least - other countries have different nuances that I can’t speak to with any authority). That doesn’t mean we should just give up, though. There’s a big difference between unknowingly being given a job opportunity over a qualified POC candidate because the employer thinks we’re a better “cultural fit” and knowingly supporting bigoted/racist policies like the Muslim Ban.

As white people, the goal shouldn’t be centered around our absolvement. A lot of people want to do just enough to say “it isn’t me,” but shirking that responsibility breeds apathy, which kind of goes against the whole point.

Anyway, I think the focus should be on sincere allyship. There are going to be a lot of uncomfortable comments leveled at white people. We just need to keep our eyes on the prize - making sure that the oppressed classes attain the equality they deserve. We listen, we internalize and interrogate, and we stand beside.

I understand having hurt feelings when someone you consider yourself an ally to makes a generalization that puts you on the defensive. It happens to me, too. But in those moments, we should remember that allyship isn’t about being liked. It’s about doing what’s right.

Sorry for the rant - hope that clarifies my original post!

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I’m curious viewt, how did you come around and not be offended and recognize your own privilege? It couldn’t have been easy

 

[platocplx]

People get upset when I say this...and I'm white, lol.

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yep because whiteness is the default of humanity and many who get offended dont like being othered or identified as a racial group. Its so weird. but its needed to classify this and seperate it out as such to call out certain behaviors.

 

[The Kree]

What's up with this circular logic?
"People are going to be offended, so I might as well be legit insulting and overgeneralizing"? Really?
How about we try to keep using nuanced phrasing instead?

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White people and people of color don't stand on even ground so it's not reasonable to expect an equal approach to the middle. I'm not saying that it's OK to be a dick to white people, I'm saying white people could stand to take the hits because there is no system in place that pushes negative ideas about white people forward. It's all rhetoric and no machinery.

 

[Hank Hill]

No. Next question.

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Then don’t say it about white people.It’s simple as that.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

People do realise "white people are shit" is the same as when women say "men are shit". Not every white person is shit, but damn there are a lot of people that are. If it doesn't apply to you then why get upset about it?

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I would think people would have a similar negative reaction to "Asian people are shit" or "Black people are shit" or "gamers are shit" or "democrats are shit" or "conservatives are shit" or "hip hop artists are shit" or "christians are shit." You get upset about it because it's feels like a broad and unfair denigration.

 

[Ajax125]

Ugh, see this shit all the time on Shark Tank.

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I was just thinking the same thing. Regardless of the race/background doing it on the show, I love when they call them out on the spot.

 

[Deepwater]

The words absolutely matter for some people. I love reading long-form pieces about the issues in today's society and feel like I've learned a lot by doing so. I don't learn anything from someone saying "white people are shit." It's pure laziness, plain and simple. If you consider that subset of people who are willing to listen to an intelligent piece but discount a stupid statement- even if both are ultimately saying the same thing - is so small that you could really give a shit less about me, then okay. I wish you the best in that.

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Do you think the woman who might've said "white people are shit" said it in isolation? Would it have made it better if it was surrounded by context and a larger overall point?

 

[Deleted member 835]

What if we replace white with black or other race?Would that also be ok?

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Are white people constantly racially abused and put down because of their skin colour?

 

[Deleted member 176]

Then don’t say it about white people.It’s simple as that.

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Different context between each statement and they can't be comparable.

 

[Deleted member 29195]

To clarify my point, there needs to be a contextualization of what being "racist" entails. It's not a binary state, but a very complicated spectrum. I do not presume every white person I meet are hood wearing, cross burning assholes. We've associated "racist" with the most vicious and despicable people so to see the label applied more liberally offends our sensibilities. In the same way a woman has to be cautious of a man, LGB people have to be conscious of hetero people, and trans folk have to be conscious of cis people, as a person of color (but more specifically a black man), I have to be cautious of white people. That doesn't mean that I physically avoid yall. It means that I enter new situations with reservation and caution because I have to be. Thats the system by which whiteness has created. I have to watch what I say, mind my body language, because until you really know a white person (and even then), you never know when they might finally decide to use that whiteness against you (or against other people). It's the subtleties of interactions and relationships, not me literally crossing the street at night or refusing to touch yall.

Now, "that sounds awfully like you're stereotyping white people like white people do black people". But imagine this. By even making that comparison, you give a smidge of validity to stereotypes that are verifiably untrue. Because I don't attribute the source of my caution to the inherent pathology of white people (as in, the color of your skin), but the system of white supremacy. And I don't know how unplugged you are from that system when I first meet you. So I have to be on guard. That doesn't mean you are a bad person inherently, but rather figuring out just how conscious are you of your own privileges.

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But whiteness is a negative thing ddd. For there to be "white people" there must be races of people beneath them. I'm not talking about white as a phenotype, but the idea that there is a race of white people.

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I completely agree with both of these posts, but I think that explaining this rhetorically is nigh impossible. How do you communicate to someone in an argument why you think "white people are shit" is a rude as hell phrase, while "the blacks" is unacceptable on a whole new level? How do you set up those gradations based on context when folks want to completely ignore context and play MadLibs inserting different races into the statement?

The reason there's SO much misunderstanding is because we don't yet have language to talk about this quickly and effectively with others. I know quippy one-liners are fun, but I think there's actual value in trying to understand how best to explain this distinction to people.

 

[Jam_Sandwich]

It's generalisation
There's no place for it at all at any level targeted at any subset whether it be Skin Colour, Culture, Beliefs etc

 

[Fauxpaw]

Why did you add this sentence? Especially in light of the first paragraph?

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My next sentence shows why. Because aside from the things I listed, there is a mental toll that comes with being discriminated against. It was more to show I have some experience with that, even if it's not nearly on the same level as a PoC.