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The Gundam |OT| Destiny is something we all have to deal with

Oct 25, 2017
4,621
Is Diebuster worth a watch? Taking into account that I enjoyed Gunbuster.
Worth it for the OP and the ending I'd say. Some people love it some people hate it. Gunbuster is a tough act to follow, but I still liked Diebuster. Just don't rewatch it as much.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
11,076
Nice job removing my spoilers to help folks who hadn't seen it yet remain spoiler free.

And what happens to Amuro and Char isn't fridging. No specific character is motivated by that. It's cause and effect what you're describing. What happens in NT is straight up fridging to push Jona's character arc along. It is the definition of fridging You're either misunderstand what the concept means or are purposely doing a "whataboutism" to sidestep engaging with the actual criticism of this specific story. And yes. Gundam does engage with it far too often and needs to do something new because that's another reason why NT just isn't great. Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean it immune from being called out as an issue here.
I didn't do the spoiler thing intentionally. Quoting people removes the spoiler tags for some reason. Anyway, I partially disagree.
Michele's death was for her not Jonah. It was the classic "Despicable character has a heroic sacrifice in an attempt to atone for their prior actions" trope that we've seen plenty of times. Rita, you could make the argument for as she was the primary motivator for most of Jonah's actions throughout the movie. Plus, while Rita's death/getting taken away had a profound impact on him, Michele died at like the 11th hour and it's hard to say, aside from the pain of a friend dying, it significantly changed anything about him
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
I didn't do the spoiler thing intentionally. Quoting people removes the spoiler tags for some reason. Anyway, I partially disagree.
Michele's death was for her not Jonah. It was the classic "Despicable character has a heroic sacrifice in an attempt to atone for their prior actions" trope that we've seen plenty of times. Rita, you could make the argument for as she was the primary motivator for most of Jonah's actions throughout the movie.
Right, but that also ignores Rita. Who is a MacGuffin. A dead, Buddhist iconography MacGuffin for Jona to chase. And Michelle does redeem herself in the end. But I think interpretation the story wants you to take away at the ending is this. They're all newtypes, and way they can reach true happiness is by dying and becoming spooky Newtype ghosts. Michelle went on her journey to get there. This movie is more hers than anyone else on screen. Now it's Jona's turn. Thus making her death his motivation to get there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,076
Right, but that also ignores Rita. Who is a MacGuffin. A dead, Buddhist iconography MacGuffin for Jona to chase. And Michelle does redeem herself in the end. But I think interpretation the story wants you to take away at the ending is this. They're all newtypes, and way they can reach true happiness is by dying and becoming spooky Newtype ghosts.Michelle went on her journey to get there. Now it's Jona's turn. Thus making her death his motivation to get there.
I didn't ignore Rita. I literally said you had a point about Rita, even in the part you quoted. I had a different interpretation of the movie's message. Going back to the allusions to Buddhism, and my admittedly wikipedia level knowledge of it, it seems more about figuring out your personal meaning to life and reaching nirvana.

Rita seemed to have her purpose figured out and accepted it way back as a child, as the movie implied she foresaw all of this happening from the moment she let Jonah and Michele share her vision as children. For Michele, it seemed more for her coming to grips that death wasn't necessarily the end. The entire movie she seems strongly motivated by her obsession with aging and death, but by the end she realizes that it isn't the end and let's go. For Jona, it was more about coming to grips with why people (mostly him and his friends) had to suffer so much. Rita being taken away was what sparked it, but I actually don't think he reached as solid a conclusion as the others. He realized that he should strive to find his own. His arc very much went from angrily seeking answers to optimistically wanting to find answers. So I think it was less their deaths and more the fact that they had found their nirvana/peace that prompted him to seek his own. I don't think this requires them to die and become one with the for-err, newtype-osphere, because Rita actually found her peace before death. It was only Michele who found hers as she was dying.
 
Apr 2, 2018
14
The newtype stuff was fine when it was just something that would happen for plot convenience. When they literally are using powers at will like Jedi and the mecha battles all go DBZ, they are going the wrong direction
I don't know if I would say it's the wrong direction, but they are definitely hinging on the newtype mythos way way harder than I ever hoped. I thought Char's Counterattack would be peak newtype stuff, then Unicorn came along and made CCA look tame. Then Narrative came along and made Unicorn look tame.
I get when people say that the newtype nonsense was always present and was always the direction it was going, but I don't get when people act offended when others don't like it. I honestly never predicted the newtype thing would get so out of hand.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
I didn't ignore Rita. I literally said you had a point about Rita, even in the part you quoted.
:D my bad it's early for me still

And you do make a good point about their overall character journies. I still feel Jona could have found his conclusion within the film. To me him surviving feels a bit of a cop out and set up for a lot of nothing. There's so much wasted time in the movie with it trying to pull a whole non-linear story telling stunt while also flashing back to things unnecessarily. That time could have easily been spent building that finality for Jona. Having them all die would be pessimistic and sad in most Gundams. But the metaphysical exploration and optimistic outlook on death being tragic, but not an ending for these characters would fit with the themes. Of course maybe his survival could also be some Buddhist concept that I'm not familiar with or mirroring a journey in a morality play from Buddhism I'm unfamiliar with.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,076
:D my bad it's early for me still

And you do make a good point about their overall character journies. I still feel Jona could have found his conclusion within the film. To me him surviving feels a bit of a cop out and set up for a lot of nothing. There's so much wasted time in the movie with it trying to pull a whole non-linear story telling stunt while also flashing back to things unnecessarily. That time could have easily been spent building that finality for Jona. Having them all die would be pessimistic and sad in most Gundams. But the metaphysical exploration and optimistic outlook on death being tragic, but not an ending for these characters would fit with the themes. Of course maybe his survival could also be some Buddhist concept that I'm not familiar with or mirroring a journey in a morality play from Buddhism I'm unfamiliar with.
Yeah, I think that could have worked too. I've read other people who complained that the movie had too many unnecessary flashbacks as well. I'm interested in seeing if the continue directly from NT or if they plan to have it be some even that happened in the not-so-distant past of whatever they decide to do next.

You're alost making me wonder if a better understanding of Buddhism would help in better understanding the movie's themes or if I'm theorizing too much :P
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
Yeah, I think that could have worked too. I've read other people who complained that the movie had too many unnecessary flashbacks as well. I'm interested in seeing if the continue directly from NT or if they plan to have it be some even that happened in the not-so-distant past of whatever they decide to do next.

You're alost making me wonder if a better understanding of Buddhism would help in better understanding the movie's themes or if I'm theorizing too much :P
I think it's Buddhism and maybe even some other Eastern theology and philosophy. The scene where the narrative entering the Neo Zeong is too symbolic to not mean something.
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,855
So from the ending of NT, from what I understand with that last discussion:

Mineva and pals have Unicorn Unit-1 still correct? It seems like they are poising them to be a new for of AEUG for a coming conflict.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
So from the ending of NT, from what I understand with that last discussion:

Mineva and pals have Unicorn Unit-1 still correct? It seems like they are poising them to be a new for of AEUG for a coming conflict.
That's how I understood it. They're likely going to be a third party that's introduced in whatever goes down in the Hathaway's Flash trilogy. I don't have the clearest understanding of HF's full plot but it sounds like the Feds get a bit too fascist and Mufti pop up to fight them. Hathaway joins them. Could be interesting to toss Mineva and Banagher into that story as a third party trying to stop all of that and see the Universal Century charters promise through to it's logical conclusion. Just realized: that leaves the door open for Riddhe and Banshee to pop back up, too. Fuck.
 
Oct 25, 2017
186
I don't know if I would say it's the wrong direction, but they are definitely hinging on the newtype mythos way way harder than I ever hoped. I thought Char's Counterattack would be peak newtype stuff, then Unicorn came along and made CCA look tame. Then Narrative came along and made Unicorn look tame.
I get when people say that the newtype nonsense was always present and was always the direction it was going, but I don't get when people act offended when others don't like it. I honestly never predicted the newtype thing would get so out of hand.
In CCA, I always treated it more as a kind of "miracle for humanity" kind of deal, especially with the whole Amuro dying to make it happen. Then in Unicorn and Narrative, when they start reproducing this stuff with hardly any consequence, it just kind of takes away from the whole mysticism of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
In CCA, I always treated it more as a kind of "miracle for humanity" kind of deal, especially with the whole Amuro dying to make it happen. Then in Unicorn and Narrative, when they start reproducing this stuff with hardly any consequence, it just kind of takes away from the whole mysticism of it.
They at least give it the justification that it's the Psychoframe that allows it to happen more frequently. The more psychoframe on the machine? The more capable the Newtype's abilities. Just stop putting that on mecha and then there's your reason why this kind of thing stopped happening.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,685
AL, USA
Oct 26, 2017
2,005
Seattle
Yes, they all did. As far as I could tell.

I missed it yesterday but RightStuf has a limited edition blu ray up for preorder (it's an import version). English dub included and it releases on May 24. The cover art is amazing.

https://www.rightstufanime.com/Mobi...ium=Post&utm_campaign=2019-2-19_Gundam_NT_GWP

The regular version should be ~$40-50 cheaper if you order it through Amazon Japan. I hate that Right Stuff lately only puts up the LE versions for sale.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,454
So from the ending of NT, from what I understand with that last discussion:

Mineva and pals have Unicorn Unit-1 still correct? It seems like they are poising them to be a new for of AEUG for a coming conflict.
That's how I understood it. They're likely going to be a third party that's introduced in whatever goes down in the Hathaway's Flash trilogy. I don't have the clearest understanding of HF's full plot but it sounds like the Feds get a bit too fascist and Mufti pop up to fight them. Hathaway joins them. Could be interesting to toss Mineva and Banagher into that story as a third party trying to stop all of that and see the Universal Century charters promise through to it's logical conclusion. Just realized: that leaves the door open for Riddhe and Banshee to pop back up, too. Fuck.
Didn't that 'leaked' Sunrise doc from a year or so ago show that
there was a Unicorn 2 on the way? Maybe that's what they're setting up for?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
Didn't that 'leaked' Sunrise doc from a year or so ago show that
The only think I know for sure if that we're getting the live action movie and Hathaway's Flash trilogy from the UC timeline. I'd be skeptical if that leak was legit or not.

That’s supposed to be the live action thing if the Sunrise document is to be believed.
Which document is this? I've not heard about this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,005
Seattle
I can’t imagine shoving Banagher and co. into HF without seriously messing it up.

The only think I know for sure if that we're getting the live action movie and Hathaway's Flash trilogy from the UC timeline. I'd be skeptical if that leak was legit or not.

Which document is this? I've not heard about this.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...logy-overseas-gundam-uc2-drama-teased/.130647

UC2 was referred to as “overseas format drama” making people think maybe it’s the live action. This is me thinking out loud now BUT MAYBE it could also be a Netflix sponsored project based on UC being on the platform.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
I can’t imagine shoving Banagher and co. into HF without seriously messing it up.



https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...logy-overseas-gundam-uc2-drama-teased/.130647

UC2 was referred to as “overseas format drama” making people think maybe it’s the live action. This is me thinking out loud now BUT MAYBE it could also be a Netflix sponsored project based on UC being on the platform.
UC2 could also have an internal name for UC Next 100. Not that it's snappier but it's less confusing and more straight forward.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,076
Did you guys catch the Thunderbolt "reference" in NT where
When they had found the kids after they had ran away the scientist and the guy in charge of the cyber newtype labs were talking. He was saying that they should just cut their legs off and the scientist was saying how it was possible as that wouldn't impede their abilities anyway
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
Did you guys catch the Thunderbolt "reference" in NT where
When they had found the kids after they had ran away the scientist and the guy in charge of the cyber newtype labs were talking. He was saying that they should just cut their legs off and the scientist was saying how it was possible as that wouldn't impede their abilities anyway
They're also chasing the Phenix in the Thunderbolt sector early on. I guess the reactor finally finished discharging electricity. Not gonna spoiler hide this cuz that's in the 23 minute preview for anyone that wants to see that.
 
Are all gundam series as dramatic? I watched NT last night it was my first exposure to Gundam. I enjoyed it.
I wouldn't say all. Some of the older mainline titles can be very dramatic, but also have plenty of little shenanigans to break it up. Gundam Unicorn, which immediately precedes NT is equally dramatic. Most of the others contain at least a little comic relief.
 
Nov 27, 2017
4,378
Are all gundam series as dramatic? I watched NT last night it was my first exposure to Gundam. I enjoyed it.
I wouldn't say all. Some of the older mainline titles can be very dramatic, but also have plenty of little shenanigans to break it up. Gundam Unicorn, which immediately precedes NT is equally dramatic. Most of the others contain at least a little comic relief.
And then there is G-fighter Gundam and ZZ’s first third
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,656
That music kinda bops, so it's understandable.
I also like the cast in general more, Zeta is very much a space opera. MSG is too, but it just has a different sort of energy to it.
Also yeah the music is great.

There's something very uniquely 80's that no other soundtrack captures.
 
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