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The Hadouken input: Do you struggle with it? Let's help.

Danis Saur

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,367
I remember when I started. I would input the movement in a robotic way. Down... Right... A.

Don't do this. Do it at a speed you want it. Either you will do it quick (out of panic), or slow and chill because you're in the lead.

The game will recognize the input right away, even if you barely pressed the down Button or pressed the Right and A button at the same time... and many other examples. The game will know you are doing a Hadouken.

Now don't ask me on timing when doing combos.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,487
I'm fine with the hadoken and other quarter circle moves

it's things like this:



and long chains that usually make me give up playing fighting games. My brain basically interprets them as complex mathematics
I know that feeling all too well! But in my case I still struggle with quarter circles. I don't know if each game interprets them differently, or if I'm pulling it off too fast (or slow), etcetera. I'm not super fast and button mashing isn't even an easy thing for me anymore.

Ah well, I'll keep trying :p
 

CrazyAznKT

Member
Nov 8, 2017
699
Had a friend have trouble with QCF but could do down, forward in MK. He called QCF a sweeping motion but I said it was the same thing in MK games. He would move the stick too far and jump so I suggested that he force the stick to the right instead of following through the motion. Helped quite a bit but still needed to practice. Also try doing it slower then ramping up the speed over time.

For Shoryu motion, a fun tip I’ve always used was to press forward then quickly do a QCF after. Bit easier to think about than a weird Z haha. On square gate sticks, I also find it useful to shove the stick into the corner to end the shoryu so you don’t do too much extra movement.

For charge moves, remember that you don’t have to be completely stationary to do the charge. You can charge down while jumping forward, you can down-back charge while doing crouching attacks, you can charge while a heavy attack’s animation in playing out, you can even charge while the “Fight!” is on screen and you can’t move yet. That’s how Guile players can throw shot after shot, they charge immediately after throwing a sonic boom.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,054
It doesn't really. It's forwards, then the Hadouken. You can do it all within one motion.
But the Hadouken starts at down. My brain just goes very confused when it tries to comprehend how to get from a stick angled forwards to a stick angled down without apparently travelling through any of the intervening space (because if it moved through intervening space, surely the move description would say so?)

I'm well aware that that's not really what's required of the player, but the way the move is generally described tends to gloss over what really goes on in that bit - I assume it's one of those things that's absolutely intuitive for people who get it and a weird mental block for those who don't.

That said, I don't think I've actually seen it described as "Forwards, then Hadouken" (so releasing to the centre in the interim?) before, that could well help my perception of it.
 

Moirayn

Member
Nov 7, 2018
855
Traditional Fighting game inputs just aren't intuitive. You have to practice enough so that when you're fighting you no longer have to think about how to perform the input & just do it. I have never had the patience / dedication to do so, therefore I gave up on the genre otuside of the easy fighting games like Smash :P
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,164
I have problems with charge moves. Hadouken type move I’ve never had a problem.
Charge moves vary in awkwardness depending on the game. KoF/Garou have really short charge times, to the point where it's almost a simple back-forwars, or down-up, motion. With SF however, you do have to hold the charge for a fair bit, which is why a lot of charge characters are known for sitting back and holding it, like Guile. Of course, you can buffer the input in normal attacks to combo into them, but that's a step for another day.

If Terry has gotten anyone to try Garou for the first time, play around with Kain in training mode to get to grips with charge motions, as he's probably one of the easiest when it comes to pulling them off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,970
Weirdly, I still can't consistently do this on an arcade analog stick. I can on a fighter pad, though. The first place that I learned to do this movement was on a proper D-pad, and that's still where I am best and most consistent at making this movement.

Same is true of charge moves, actually.
 

Noise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
718
I can do quarter-circle inputs just fine with BBxTAG. I'm no FG veteran but I'm guessing that's because of the input buffer being more forgiving in that game. With Ryu in smash I have decent time pulling it off. I've been playing the 1st fatal fury since it went on sale the other day though and wowee I'm having some trouble with that.

I'm playing in handheld, though, on my switch. 98% of all fighters I've ever played were on a normal controller with the analogue stick. Using the dpad feels worse to me... but I think I'm in the wrong for thinking that. But surely the joystick is easier to pull 236s or 214s off than with the directional buttons, or even the pro controller dpad.

FG veterans, should I just bite the bullet and use the directional buttons when playing handheld/dpad on the pro controller? I plan on getting a fight stick eventually... but I need to do more research, and what little research I have done shows that there aren't any fighting sticks that work on both PS4 and Switch. Or I just need to git gud and die enough until I can beat Billy Kane in Fatal Fury.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
But the Hadouken starts at down. My brain just goes very confused when it tries to comprehend how to get from a stick angled forwards to a stick angled down without apparently travelling through any of the intervening space (because if it moved through intervening space, surely the move description would say so?)

I'm well aware that that's not really what's required of the player, but the way the move is generally described tends to gloss over what really goes on in that bit - I assume it's one of those things that's absolutely intuitive for people who get it and a weird mental block for those who don't.

That said, I don't think I've actually seen it described as "Forwards, then Hadouken" (so releasing to the centre in the interim?) before, that could well help my perception of it.
You don't have to release after forwards. You can go forward, then down and start the Hadouken motion.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
Wisconsin
I don't think the hadouken movement is the problem, it's the more complex stuff that gives people issue. I find consistently activating power geyser and buster wolf to be difficult thus far, half the time I try to input buster wolf it takes it as power dunk and it's impossible for me to tell what I'm doing wrong
 

FarbrorBaku

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,300
Do it in one smooth flowing motion, and don't rush it, the input registers even if you do it pretty slowly.

I have been playing street fighter since i was a kid so it's second nature to me, but i understand why some people can find it counterintuitive , i think the choice of controller might play into this as well, i expect the input will be more difficult on the terrible unique gamecube controller.
 
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skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,152
I don't think the hadouken movement is the problem, it's the more complex stuff that gives people issue. I find consistently activating power geyser and buster wolf to be difficult thus far, half the time I try to input buster wolf it takes it as power dunk and it's impossible for me to tell what I'm doing wrong

 

DeadeyeNull

Member
Dec 26, 2018
56
The Hadouken input is the only one I can do consistently. The Shoryuken input, though... that's something else.
Try thinking about hit forward then a hadoken motion. That what I did when I first learned it until I got used to doing the motion clean. Also going down foward,down, down foward usually works.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
Why does no one ever describe the DP motion as a Z?
Because...

I'm fine with the hadoken and other quarter circle moves

it's things like this:



and long chains that usually make me give up playing fighting games. My brain basically interprets them as complex mathematics
I don't think the hadouken movement is the problem, it's the more complex stuff that gives people issue. I find consistently activating power geyser and buster wolf to be difficult thus far, half the time I try to input buster wolf it takes it as power dunk and it's impossible for me to tell what I'm doing wrong
You are probably pressing forwards before the first qcf input and then pressing attack before doing the second qcf. Forwards + qcf + attack = power dunk

Smash shows you your inputs in training right?
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,164
But the Hadouken starts at down. My brain just goes very confused when it tries to comprehend how to get from a stick angled forwards to a stick angled down without apparently travelling through any of the intervening space (because if it moved through intervening space, surely the move description would say so?)

I'm well aware that that's not really what's required of the player, but the way the move is generally described tends to gloss over what really goes on in that bit - I assume it's one of those things that's absolutely intuitive for people who get it and a weird mental block for those who don't.

That said, I don't think I've actually seen it described as "Forwards, then Hadouken" (so releasing to the centre in the interim?) before, that could well help my perception of it.
I'm gonna preface by saying I hate the forward>hadoken input for the shoryuken, but you tap forward, let the stick return to neutral, then do the hadoken.
The proper way to do it is forward, then down (just slide to down, don't follow the curve of the control stick), then back to forward (again, just flick forward, don't sweep along the curve). You're basically doing a Zorro 'Z' with the stick.

Technically it's forward> down> down-forward, but I can't recall any game where forward > down> forward doesn't work.

On d-pad (Dualshock in my case) it's even easier, just press forward, rub your thumb over down, then back up to forward.
 

LowParry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,340
Hadokens no problem on either side. Shoryuken is a weird one for me. In Tekken, EWGF I can do maybe 8 out 10 times? When I try to do a Shoryuken in Street Fighter? I'm like inputing mashing or something. I dunno. It's really weird. A square gate on an arcade stick helps a lot though imo.

But hey, play a charge character. It'll open your eyes. And screw you Capcom for what you did to Claw in SF5! :( :(
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,054
You don't have to release after forwards. You can go forward, then down and start the Hadouken motion.
But down isn't below forwards, down-forwards is!

So is the move *actually* forwards, down-forwards, down, down-forwards and all the guides that say:



...fundamentally being misleading?

Oooh, wait. I've just realised something, and I think it might be very, very key. I've been aware that with Guile you can charge both sonic boom and what-I-always-used-to-call-jackknife-way-back-when-but-tends-to-be-called-flash-kick-now at the same time. I've been thinking for all this time that you need to input the exact sequence given and nothing else, but is it in fact more that you need to input all those directions in sequence but other directions can fall between them?
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,037
Columbia, SC
Took me about a month when I was a kid to figure it out because I didn't realize it was asking you to slide the stick/d-pad from down to the forward position in a single motion instead of tapping d,df,f+p. Shoryuken was only hard because if you accidentally let go of d then you get an unintentional hadouken because its f instead of df.

Believe probably the hardest input to do is the double flash kick in the older SF games because there's little input leniency in ST vs sf4
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,308
Well, for Shoryuken it usually works to do forward, then Hadoken, but it's not really that. You're supposed to end on down-forward and some (mostly older) games require this precision.

Most fighting games have button displays in the training mode. Just go there and see what directions you're actually doing. I think one problem would be overdoing it, it's really a very short motion and it should be possible to do very quickly.

Now, doing a 360 is a completely different story. Or a Raging Storm pretzel.
 

JustinH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,722
Never really the hadouken, no.

I used to have problems with dragon punches, but I'm better at those now.
It makes me wonder if I got better, or if it's just that they just got easier to pull off, since they're definitely easier to execute in SFIV than in... say Super Turbo.

The 360s and 720s are my real "problem areas." That's a shame, because other than Balrog/M.Bison (or "boxer" if you prefer) I think I'd like to learn to play as Zangief the most (or... "beefcake" if you prefer)
 

tsab

Member
Nov 3, 2017
860
protip: use a gamecube controller that has a octagonal analogue stick gate
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,433
I just mentally imagine drawing a Z on the analog stick for the shoryuken input and that works fine for me. I think it looks way more complicated on paper than it actually is.
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,591
Saskatchewan, Canada
Yeah for anyone struggling with shoryuken the easiest trick is to tap forward then immediately do a hadouken. I struggled a ton because the 'Z' motion they show you in images is confusing and not very consistent.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
...omg

Are all motion + move techniques like that? That explains why they always feel inconsistent to me. (I don't play fighting games outside of Smash.)
for the most part. You can usually do the button press a little after.
But down isn't below forwards, down-forwards is!

So is the move *actually* forwards, down-forwards, down, down-forwards and all the guides that say:
All the game cares about is registering down after the forwards. You don't have to slide around through down-forward to get there, but I don't think it matters if you do. I slide straight to down from forward.
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,013
I don't play a lot of fighting games and am not currently playing one. But from what I remember of watching my inputs in stuff like Skullgirls and Persona 4 Arena, the issue I often ran into when trying to perform combos was timing: often what would happen is I would apparently hit the button just before I finished the sweep move on the pad/stick, which then means the move doesn't register and my character doesn't do anything.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
Yeah for anyone struggling with shoryuken the easiest trick is to tap forward then immediately do a hadouken. I struggled a ton because the 'Z' motion they show you in images is confusing and not very consistent.
I get why they did it though, since it's really forward, down, down-forward, which is the shape of a Z.
 

moriguy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
114
One tip for beginners to execute either hadoken or shoryuken I'd say, is just to hold the first input. That way you only have two more directional inputs to get the motion and the first input is basically a given.

For example, the hadoken: just hold down. Then to complete the hadoken command, you only have to hit two directional inputs rolling to forward. You'll know you'll completed the command if your character is standing and walking forward. The newer fighting games are lenient so you don't have to time your attack button press + the directional input at the exact same time so your can do the directional inputs, and once you see your character upright and microstep forward then input the button and you'll still get the special.

For the shoryuken input, same idea. Hold forward, then you only have two more directions down, then roll to down toward.

The shoryuken input in recent Street Fighter games and I think in Smash Ultimate too accepts different ways to input the command. So you actually don't have to do the traditional f, d, df command. For example, f, df, f + button OR df, d, df + button may be acceptable.

Same idea goes for charge specials too. Hold the first direction (necessary for the charge), then you only have one direction left to input the command. So for example, Smash Ultimate Terry's Rising Tackle, after hold down to charge, you essentially input an upsmash to get the charged Rising Tackle. Another thing to note is the down charge can be any of the downward directions (db, d, or df). You can jump and drift backward or forward while keeping a down charge if you hold db or df while in the air.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
I don't play a lot of fighting games and am not currently playing one. But from what I remember of watching my inputs in stuff like Skullgirls and Persona 4 Arena, the issue I often ran into when trying to perform combos was timing: often what would happen is I would apparently hit the button just before I finished the sweep move on the pad/stick, which then means the move doesn't register and my character doesn't do anything.
Combos are a different matter entirely but yes, timing is very important and it can differ from game to game.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
Wisconsin
Come on man, that's not what I was getting at. The inputs are great and I love that they're included, I'm just having trouble consistently executing them on command and since the game doesn't have a good training mode there isn't a simple way to figure out what you're doing wrong. Obviously I'll get better after the character has been out for more than two days
You are probably pressing forwards before the first qcf input and then pressing attack before doing the second qcf. Forwards + qcf + attack = power dunk

Smash shows you your inputs in training right?
No, unfortunately it doesn't show your inputs. That must be what's getting me confused, I wasn't thinking of buster wolf as two consecutive qcf movements but as just down forward down forward. I was trying to use it with that second way of inputting it since it looked easier at first glance, but it's probably actually harder to do.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,054
I'm gonna preface by saying I hate the forward>hadoken input for the shoryuken, but you tap forward, let the stick return to neutral, then do the hadoken.
The proper way to do it is forward, then down (just slide to down, don't follow the curve of the control stick), then back to forward (again, just flick forward, don't sweep along the curve). You're basically doing a Zorro 'Z' with the stick.
Oh, this might be it.

I inherently interpret a digital stick as being:



...that is, those are the only paths I particularly comprehend the control following. Should I be envisioning it more as this?:



(I suspect, in hindsight, a huge part of this issue may stem from my first long-term engagement with SF2 being via the SNES version and pad only... and with more modern controllers, my inability to make fast moves precisely enough without relying on the gate to aid the stick in reaching the correct point)
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,526
In my few experiences teaching someone who is completely new the most common problem I see is they are not clear when exactly to hit the button. Is it right when you arrive at the forward position? Do you wait a beat like it is a 4th command? And worst they are often hitting it before as the 3rd input.

This is compounded by some games are more lenient than others. Once you walk them through the feel a couple times their execution goes up dramatically in my experience. Unfortunately this is much more difficult to do on an internet forum.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,524
Montreal
Hadoken and Shoriuken are fine for me. I've always wanted to play grapplers but those 360 motions are out of my league. Don't even start with those supers where you have to do them twice.
Also what was SNK thinking with Geese's Raging Storm move. it's so not intuitive. Same with charge supers that you have to do diagonally. I am glad we are moving away from those weird design choices.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,701
Oh, this might be it.

I inherently interpret a digital stick as being:



...that is, those are the only paths I particularly comprehend the control following. Should I be envisioning it more as this?:



(I suspect, in hindsight, a huge part of this issue may stem from my first long-term engagement with SF2 being via the SNES version and pad only)
Draw a Z in the lower right box in the second image.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,164
Oh, this might be it.

I inherently interpret a digital stick as being:



...that is, those are the only paths I particularly comprehend the control following. Should I be envisioning it more as this?:



(I suspect, in hindsight, a huge part of this issue may stem from my first long-term engagement with SF2 being via the SNES version and pad only)
Yep, just a Z in the lower right box/quarter.
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,854
I recently taught my 6 year old nephew how to do hadoukens and sonic booms. I myself played plenty of 2D fighters growing up but had no clue how to do a single special move until I was around 18 or 19.
I think it really helps if you have someone show you how IRL.
 

MochaKoffee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,309
Another problem, I feel, is people try to go too fast when they start out. You don't need to slam these out as fast as you think you do. Go into training mode, slow down, and keep going until you get it down well enough that you can get them out consistently.

Then, when you can fireball, DP, and tatsu with the best of 'em, you can step into a larger world and learn some fundamentals.

FG veterans, should I just bite the bullet and use the directional buttons when playing handheld/dpad on the pro controller?
Do whatever works for you, my dude. It's always been personal preference. The D-Pad life is just as valid as the arcade stick life. A lot of people just learned these games at the arcade, so they prefer that.

Someone won EVO with a PS1 controller, after all.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,054
Draw a Z in the lower right box in the second image.
Yeah, that's what led me to the second realisation. Okay, I now have an idea where the mental block lies.

There's still a physical block (I edited that previous post) in that I struggle to do fast movements without relying on the gate to guide me into place (which is why everything I was thinking about always interpreted it in terms of having to go through down-forwards to get to down)