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The Hadouken input: Do you struggle with it? Let's help.

Skab

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,226
SNK's pretzel motions are the things that give me trouble these days, but I haven't had nearly as much practice at them.

Bring on KoF15.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,739
The Digital World
Fun fact: 360s are really 270s

I had trouble with QCF when I was younger but these days I breeze through pretty much all commands.
just wanted to expand on this since i'm a man of culture who mainly uses grapplers

as long as you hit all 4 cardinal directions in one smooth motion (counting diagonals in some games) then the game will "accept" the 360 motion

example, going from left to down to right to up-right+punch
 

rpm

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,337
the 24th century
Except you have to stop on the diagonal. Go too far and you'll hadoken instead.
Yes, the motion is forward, down, down-foward + punch, but many modern games will accept it if you stop at forward, and it's typically easier for people who are having trouble doing the motion (the people this thread is aimed at) to do it that way if the game they're playing accepts it
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,783
Command and charge input aren't hard once you figure out the charge time and the correct motion of a DP.

What I struggle the most is Guile's Super Input. In practice I can do them but in a match I always end up doing the wrong thing
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,633
Nah, but I could use help with b->f motions in MK11 and NR fighters.

Holy shit the success ratio for me is poor and has caused me to pretty much abandon those games. Even the tutorials had me raging.
What controller are you using? There's not much difference between say, a down -> forward and a back -> forward.
I never had much problem doing hadouken/shoryuken even on the keyboard (yes I played SFIV mostly on the keyboard) but charge moves are impossible for me even in the DS4
What's happening with charge moves for you? Maybe you're not charging long enough?
Except you have to stop on the diagonal. Go too far and you'll hadoken instead.
Nah, that won't happen. Or at least it shouldn't in modern fighters.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
13,527
Ibis Island
I feel like QCF and the like aren’t hard to learn once the concept is there.

Charging though? Now that’s a pain in the ass. I can be about mid-tier for fighters, but I’m a newbie if I’m stuck with a heavy charge character. Outside like skull girls (which is how all charging should be imo)
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,633
I feel like QCF and the like aren’t hard to learn once the concept is there.

Charging though? Now that’s a pain in the ass. I can be about mid-tier for fighters, but I’m a newbie if I’m stuck with a heavy charge character. Outside like skull girls (which is how all charging should be imo)
What's different with charging in Skullgirls?
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,765
Most modern fighters don't really care if you do the diagonals for Shoryuken (dragon punch) or Hadouken (fireball) motions, so you can just do:

down, forward.

and

foward, down, foward

and it'll work.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,514
I feel like QCF and the like aren’t hard to learn once the concept is there.

Charging though? Now that’s a pain in the ass. I can be about mid-tier for fighters, but I’m a newbie if I’m stuck with a heavy charge character. Outside like skull girls (which is how all charging should be imo)
I've been maining charge characters since sf2 so I'm always curious when I see people struggle with them. What is it exactly? Figuring out buffer opportunities?
 

Combo

Member
Jan 8, 2019
203
It would be neat if this provided people an opportunity in a easy place to learn these basic fighting inputs. Once you have all the quarter circle stuff and dragon punch down you're pretty set in a whole lot of fighting games.
Not at all. There is a massive uphill battle to learn what to do after that.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,440
Netherlands
I never had trouble with fireball or DP motions, until I recently (in terms of in-game hours at least) switched to a stick. I can get it right most of the time, but I have to keep the housing straight on my lap because even with the slightest tilt I do nothing but 369 or 123 motions. DPs are still hard in that it feels like you have to do it faster. On pad it's just a casual flick with your thumb, but on stick you have to move your entire hand. Lastly I'm still struggling converting a down-forward punch into DP, since I tend to "click" the stick into the down-forward slot, which is apparently too low to count as a forward motion.

I've been maining charge characters since sf2 so I'm always curious when I see people struggle with them. What is it exactly? Figuring out buffer opportunities?
I'm better at it now, but for a long time I had trouble buffering back/down while doing other attacks. For example Blanka's j.HK > st.HP > Rolling Attack (forward Blanka Ball). You need to hold back the moment you jump and keep holding it while you kick and punch. It's like your left and right hand are constantly out of sync.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,633
are dpads actually easier than the analog sticks for command inputs?
dpads are recommended over analog sticks in general for fighting games because of their immediate input - they're either being activated or they're not - whereas an analog stick has degrees it has to move before activation occurs which can feel weird. But some people prefer analog sticks for motion inputs (especially 720s) because they like to roll the stick against the edge.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,514
I'm better at it now, but for a long time I had trouble buffering back/down while doing other attacks. For example Blanka's j.HK > st.HP > Rolling Attack (forward Blanka Ball). You need to hold back the moment you jump and keep holding it while you kick and punch. It's like your left and right hand are constantly out of sync.
Yeah, I can see that. I think if I were to try to start fresh and explain charge characters to someone completely new the way I would maybe try to tackle this is explaining something like: Buffering is your neutral now. Always look to get back there.

And when they look at me with a "the fuck is a neutral?", I'd go back to the drawing board, but I think that might be the fewest words to put it in.
 

Retromess

Member
Nov 9, 2017
76
The Shoryuken input has always given me more trouble than a Hadouken input, and charge moves are a thing I've never been able to reliably do, regardless of using d-pad, analog stick or fighting stick.

Don't even ask me to attempt a charge super move like this:
CHARGE BACK, FORWARD, BACK, FORWARD + THREE KICKS

Or a double 360 like Zangief, nope. Can never do those if you put a gun to my head.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,633
Controversial opinion:

A sonic boom is easier to perform than a hadouken.

Why? Because it's literally just back-forward+punch. Only thing is you hold the back for 2 seconds before you press forward.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
The timing is definitely what gets me. I can definitely charge play, but it's really obvious that i'm getting a charge ready. Rather than being able to do it seamlessly.
It's suppose to be obvious, that's the point. Charge moves usually have some positive to them that regular motions don't have because of this.
 

Fahdi

Member
Jun 5, 2018
782
Fuck Hadoken! It's all about landing Zangief's SPD super while having his feet on the ground.

My favorite move ever is Jin and Heihachi's delayed EWGF or EWHF. It's the most satisfaction I get to extend a hard combo and hit's hard too.

Honorable Mentions:
Lee (3,3:4) (Punch Parry) and Paul (Demolition Man) Just Frames.
Akuma Raging Demon
Geese and Rock Raging Storm

I love hard shit.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,868
it was awkward at first too but i love it for anime fighters. Also helps that when i was a kid, i played KOF98 and 2002 on a keyboard for years. Games with a lot of double tapping work great for me on hitbox but stuff like shorthops and SF chains for the most part i have a lot of trouble with and switch back to regular stick. Def give it a shot though if you ever get the chance. you'd be surprised.
Keyboard is why I think I'd struggle, I've been PC gaming for decades and I still hate it as a controller. Even on a pad or stick quick switching between multiple buttons in general can throw me off, it's a major reason I'm bad at combos too. My brain just doesn't seem to cope and I hit things in the wrong order. I can hit rotations with my thumb all day compared to that.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,883
I will say in smash also I have TONS of problems trying to do a shoryu out of an up air. Going from up to the shoryu motion is pretty challenging and I need to get used to it.
Using the c-stick for aerials is a good habit to get into. Being able to attack in on direction and move in another is really strong.
Weirdly enough since Smash Ultimate they turned C-Stick into a macro for the left stick+attack instead of its own input so it can mess with that movement.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,555
Think of doing dragon punches like drawing a little zigzag. A fireball is a little swoosh, and a dragon punch is a little zigzag.
 

ImaPlayThis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
163
Bit late to the party but no, the only inputs I have had difficulties with are 720s and delta motions (down back, down forward, down back, up forward).

As for shoryukens when younger I had major issues with them and many others still do but that's mainly because games often lie about what the input actually is and show like a "Z" which is wrong, especially if you're playing on pad, even the newest Guilty Gear from what we've seen from the gameplay demonstration has this problem
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,763
just use a hitbox and cheat the system like the computers :v)
How is using a hitbox cheating? Does it read your opponents' inputs for you and respond accordingly like AI?
(It occurs to me that you are being sarcastic. Like, look at your face!)

Altough it does make some motions pretty easy, it makes others difficult. I can't do 360s to save my life. Or the old Cammy 180s that go diagonal. Of course, I can barely do them on any controller...

just wanted to expand on this since i'm a man of culture who mainly uses grapplers

as long as you hit all 4 cardinal directions in one smooth motion (counting diagonals in some games) then the game will "accept" the 360 motion

example, going from left to down to right to up-right+punch
 

rsfour

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,408
For 360s, personally I've always done a full 360 without issue. Standing 720s is something I never bothered to learn, I could only do those if they're buffered/hidden behind another move.

I used to think pretzel motions in KOF were awful, because I only played SNK games here and there; didn't actively learn the pretzel until cvs1, and it was very easy to do.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,599
just wanted to expand on this since i'm a man of culture who mainly uses grapplers

as long as you hit all 4 cardinal directions in one smooth motion (counting diagonals in some games) then the game will "accept" the 360 motion

example, going from left to down to right to up-right+punch
Half circle then up+attack works too. Really easy on keyboard/hitbox.


I feel like this kind of misunderstanding is what happens a lot.
I distinctly remember 12 year old me having this epiphany while perusing an SFA3 guide on gamefaqs.
 
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Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,398
Except you have to stop on the diagonal. Go too far and you'll hadoken instead.
Most games, the shoryuken input has priority over the hadouken input so you might end up getting shoryuken when do dash/walk forward hadouken too quick.

Re: Charge inputs
The charge time is less than or exactly 60 frames usually, saying charge 2 seconds is inaccurate. Saying '1... 2' is one sec, mentally think '0... 1' if you know the feel of real second. Hopefully this helps anyone that feels charging is too long.