The Hadouken input: Do you struggle with it? Let's help.

CapNBritain · Nov 8, 2019

So I just bought the Arcade1up Marvel Super Heroes LE arcade cabinet because I'm a massive comic book fan. I always wanted to play the Punisher game and figured I could mod in more games in the future. But I have never played X-men: Children of the Atom or Marvel Superheroes, both of which are modeled after Street Fighter. And I've never really played Street Fighter either. I literally cannot beat the first character in Marvel Super Heroes. I can't consistently do this quarter circle move that people keep saying is so easy. I always end up jumping or completely whiffing the move because i'm too busy focused on trying to pull it off vs getting the spacing right.

So I spent hundreds of dollars on a cabinet and I can't beat the first character on 2/3 of the games. Still worth it to see it in my geek loft every day.

Edit: I will definitely try to take some of the advice in this thread and apply said tips tonight.

DrFunk · Nov 8, 2019

Never had a problem with qcf

Raging Storm motion tho..oof

Jimnymebob · Nov 8, 2019

Hella said:
...omg

Are all motion + move techniques like that? That explains why they always feel inconsistent to me. (I don't play fighting games outside of Smash.)

Usually, so you think of a hadoken as down, down-forward, forward+punch.
You can also hold punch throughout the down, down-forwar, forward motion, (and release punch on forward) too, in a lot of games.

azertydu91 · Nov 8, 2019

Greywaren said:
The Hadouken input is the only one I can do consistently. The Shoryuken input, though... that's something else.

Was exactly like you until recently where I just figured I could hit a right then a simple horizontal line starting from down to right.

I do imagine that you are probably not as dumb as me but go figure it took me som much time to figure I used to do a double hadouken and manage the shoryuken through timing of when I pressed punch.

But multiple circles and holding buttons are hell to me .I'm either crouched too long that it becomes obvious or do it to fast for it to work.
For circle move I just use the joystick.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

CapNBritain said:
So I just bought the Arcade1up Marvel Super Heroes LE arcade cabinet because I'm a massive comic book fan. I always wanted to play the Punisher game and figured I could mod in more games in the future. But I have never played X-men: Children of the Atom or Marvel Superheroes, both of which are modeled after Street Fighter. And I've never really played Street Fighter either. I literally cannot beat the first character in Marvel Super Heroes. I can't consistently do this quarter circle move that people keep saying is so easy. I always end up jumping or completely whiffing the move because i'm too busy focused on trying to pull it off vs getting the spacing right.

So I spent hundreds of dollars on a cabinet and I can't beat the first character on 2/3 of the games. Still worth it to see it in my geek loft every day.

Edit: I will definitely try to take some of the advice in this thread and apply said tips tonight.

Important to note that knowing how to do a special move is not going to automatically make you win a fight. It's just a tool. One day you might be able to beat the CPU without any specials at all.

Unfortunately, there's no training mode in these arcade releases. That would help massively.

Edit: also it takes a while to get used to using an arcade stick in general.

CapNBritain · Nov 8, 2019

Yeah I'm pretty solid in Smash so I feel like I should be decent at figuring out stuff like spacing and pacing, but it's being unable to actually perform the moves I want when I want that is holding me back. That and it's demoralizing to be unable to beat the first enemy in a game. Is that normal?

Dead Guy · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
I get why they did it though, since it's really forward, down, down-forward, which is the shape of a Z.

Yeah I just find it confusing to follow. I was concentrating too much on trying to make a Z and would often move the stick to the down back position to overcompensate. When I started thinking it was just a hadouken with a forward tap it was 100 times easier to grasp

Deleted member 7883 · Nov 8, 2019

MochaKoffee said:
Do whatever works for you, my dude. It's always been personal preference. The D-Pad life is just as valid as the arcade stick life. A lot of people just learned these games at the arcade, so they prefer that.

Someone won EVO with a PS1 controller, after all.

Cool. I'll stick to using the joycon/pro controller analogue stick until I plateau or get fed-up, then. Thank you! (:

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

CapNBritain said:
Yeah I'm pretty solid in Smash so I feel like I should be decent at figuring out stuff like spacing and pacing, but it's being unable to actually perform the moves I want when I want that is holding me back. That and it's demoralizing to be unable to beat the first enemy in a game. Is that normal?

I haven't played those games, but I know certain fighting games in arcades were notorious for being difficult in order to get consumers to cough up more pennies! No idea if that's the case here.

Alberto Robert · Nov 8, 2019

DrFunk said:
Never had a problem with qcf

Raging Storm motion tho..oof

Most supers in SNK games are awful. I was playing a lot of the Fatal Fury and KOF games to prepare for terry in Smash and had a rough time lol.

Soulstoner · Nov 8, 2019

Sou Da said:
Why does no one ever describe the DP motion as a Z?

Isn't it more like an upside down 2?

djplaeskool · Nov 8, 2019

No problems with QCF or DP motions here.
SPD/360/720s give me all kinds of fits.

andymcc · Nov 8, 2019

i learned how to hadoken at like age 7

i still struggle with 360s tho.

Prelude · Nov 8, 2019

MikeProtagonist said:
It's also important that the button is pressed as you reach the final direction, not after. I've seen some people make this mistake.

You can press it after and it still works. I'm not a 2D player so I'm not sure about every single game, but since I play Tekken I notice how lenient modern 2D games motions are in comparison. You don't have to be that precise.

CrazyAznKT · Nov 8, 2019

mclem said:
But down isn't below forwards, down-forwards is!

So is the move *actually* forwards, down-forwards, down, down-forwards and all the guides that say:

...fundamentally being misleading?

Oooh, wait. I've just realised something, and I think it might be very, very key. I've been aware that with Guile you can charge both sonic boom and what-I-always-used-to-call-jackknife-way-back-when-but-tends-to-be-called-flash-kick-now at the same time. I've been thinking for all this time that you need to input the exact sequence given and nothing else, but is it in fact more that you need to input all those directions in sequence but other directions can fall between them?

I would actually advice against doing f, df, d, df because that's some extra movement. I think the problem you're having is that you think you can only input what's on the edge of the stick but you can jump from one edge to another.

Like in a 3D person game, you can move your character to the right and have them sharply move toward the camera without having to sweep the analog stick along the edge; you jump from the right edge to the bottom edge. The stick does move between but you're not necessarily making an input in between.

Jimnymebob · Nov 8, 2019

djplaeskool said:
No problems with QCF or DP motions here.
SPD/360/720s give me all kinds of fits.

360s aren't too bad once you realise you only have to do 3/4 of a circle- not the whole 360.
720s are a pain though, and I say that as someone who always plays Gief. You basically need to hide the input in the input in an animation of another move or dash (or jump, but that's always super obvious, even if it's easier).

SecretCharacter · Nov 8, 2019

Longtime FGC guy here.
Hadoukens - great. Shouryukens - easy mode. Charge partitioning - easy peasy. Super jank SNK motions - sure, why not.

Standing 720 - No way in hell. I've pulled it off maybe twice in my life, but the standing 720 is evading me like wild. Modern games have wonderful dashes that you can use to buffer that nonsense, but try getting a standing 720 in Super Turbo and it's a nightmare.

Jimnymebob · Nov 8, 2019

SecretCharacter said:
Longtime FGC guy here.
Hadoukens - great. Shouryukens - easy mode. Charge partitioning - easy peasy. Super jank SNK motions - sure, why not.

Standing 720 - No way in hell. I've pulled it off maybe twice in my life, but the standing 720 is evading me like wild. Modern games have wonderful dashes that you can use to buffer that nonsense, but try getting a standing 720 in Super Turbo and it's a nightmare.

I can actually 720 fairly consistently with my right hand on stick, but that's pointless because it's absolutely impractical XD.

Soj · Nov 8, 2019

In a continuous motion, press down then roll the stick anti clockwise to the forward position. Press the button as you come to the end of the motion. Picture it like the two inputs are meeting up.

Is this all a plan to get Smash players to try other fighting games?

JMTF · Nov 8, 2019

Any tip for flash kick input on keyboards? i think i got sonic booms better nowadays, 720 are easier for me i feel.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

JMTF said:
Any tip for flash kick input on keyboards? i think i got sonic booms better nowadays, 720 are easier for me i feel.

If you can do Sonic booms, you should be able to pull off a flash kick. You might not be moving from down to up fast enough.

NinjaBoiX · Nov 8, 2019

I find it puzzling how people who can pull of the Hadouken struggle with the Dragon Punch. It's the same move but you tap forward first.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

(sidenote, I just realised Terry can combo into Rising Tackle. That feels so good!)

jotun? · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
This is trying to tell you to:
Move the stick forwards, then down, then forwards. In other (better) words, it's forwards, followed by the Hadouken input. That's how you do a Shoryuken!

There are ambiguities that could mess people up

Like, does the stick have to release to center after the initial forward? Is it allowed to move through down-forward on the way to down? What if you briefly press down-back before down? Do you have to press the punch button while the stick is in the down-forward position, or is it okay to press it a bit late when the stick has already moved through to forward?

Similarly with the simple QCF, there are questions like will it still work if the P input is slightly before the F? Simultaneous? Some time after? What if you release F just before pressing P?

nded · Nov 8, 2019

For shoryuken motions treat the initial forward input as separate from the down->down-forward, as in release the input and let it go to neutral for a split second. Also always try to end on the diagonal.

JMTF said:
Any tip for flash kick input on keyboards? i think i got sonic booms better nowadays, 720 are easier for me i feel.

It's kind of awkward unless you have up mapped to spacebar or some key you can hit with your thumb. If you're holding down+back like a good charge player, you don't have to release back, just down.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

jotun? said:
There are ambiguities that could mess people up

yes you are quite right.

jotun? said:
Like, does the stick have to release to center after the initial forward?

no

jotun? said:
Is it allowed to move through down-forward on the way to down?

yes

jotun? said:
What if you briefly press down-back before down?

you'll likely just get a hadouken

jotun? said:
Do you have to press the punch button while the stick is in the down-forward position, or is it okay to press it a bit late when the stick has already moved through to forward?

either one

jotun? said:
Similarly with the simple QCF, there are questions like will it still work if the P input is slightly before the F?

it depends on the game and also if negative edge is in play

jotun? said:
What if you release F just before pressing P?

you don't have to hold F but it does help with the feel/timing

Edit: I should note that I just tested all this with Terry's power dunk in Smash

DaveB · Nov 8, 2019

Nah, the hadouken motion is almost automatic for me. It's the shoryuken motion that I'm about 50/50 on, and even worse, the SPD motion (as Zangief) that remains my least consistent input.

johan · Nov 8, 2019

Shoryuken on a hitbox is criminally easy

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

johan said:
Shoryuken on a hitbox is criminally easy

Shhh! 😉

Billy Awesomo · Nov 8, 2019

that motion is nothing, not even a challenge. Challenging would be this: ↙→↘↓↙←↘ + Punch or this: or Guile's flash kick super or even no jumping 720 supers.

Fawz · Nov 8, 2019

One thing to remember is that how the motion can be done is different per game even if they all put it down as QCF. Each game as different input buffering and only a few allow for more nuanced inputs. Some games are notoriously strict with this (ie: SNK games) while others are much more lenient to the point of creating other issues with too much buffering. The best games give you various control options to help find your happy medium (ie: Negative Edge/Release Check, Input Buffer Duration/Timing Duration, Alternate Controls, Button Shortcuts, Input Shortcuts, ect...)

For example a Hadoken could theoreticall be done with the following inputs:

Down > Down Forward > Forward > Button
Down > Down Forward > Button
Down > Forward > Button
Down Forward > Forward > Button
Down Forward > Down Forward > Button
Down Forward > Button

Some even allow for mistakes (Additional motions before/after the button, the button before the motion is complete, adding additional buttons, ect...) if there isn't too much move overlap (Also having a DP motion muddies these options, as does forward command moves).

TLDR: You can actually input it in different ways based on the game, and each player should find what they're most comfortable with per input device

moonie · Nov 8, 2019

Hadouken, no problem.
Shoryuken, no problem.

360 degrees + button = 100% fail

Zangief's spinning pile driver is forever out of my reach.

Survivortype · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
Did you know, you can charge while in the air/jumping?

Yeah this was a game changer when someone showed me this in SF2.

DeadMoonKing · Nov 8, 2019

Hadoken and Shoryuken I can pull off (sadly not as consistently as I'd like), but I've been trying to learn SF/ZA2 recently and I thought Nash/Charlie would be a good fit for me. For some reason, I cannot pull of either Sonic Boom or Somersault Shell to save my life. It makes me wonder if my Saturn controller is busted or I just suck. I'm guessing the latter...

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

DeadMoonKing said:
Hadoken and Shoryuken I can pull off (sadly not as consistently as I'd like), but I've been trying to learn SF/ZA2 recently and I thought Nash/Charlie would be a good fit for me. For some reason, I cannot pull of either Sonic Boom or Somersault Shell to save my life. It makes me wonder if my Saturn controller is busted or I just suck. I'm guessing the latter...

I said it earlier, but usually the issue is with not charging long enough, and/or not pressing the opposite direction fast enough.

chrominance · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
Combos are a different matter entirely but yes, timing is very important and it can differ from game to game.

Oh, sorry, I meant "combo" as in "a combination of inputs," so like your basic hadouken. I wasn't totally sure what to call it.

thepenguin55 · Nov 8, 2019

Even as someone who plays a lot of fighting games I can have trouble consistently hitting stuff when I'm on the P2 side. My inputs on that side just seem to be less precise for some reason.

DeadMoonKing · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
I said it earlier, but usually the issue is with not charging long enough, and/or not pressing the opposite direction fast enough.

How long is too long/not enough? Is there a count I can do for myself?

Absolute · Nov 8, 2019

When I first started playing SF2 I always found it easier to guarantee the input if i walked forward before doing it.

TheGhost · Nov 8, 2019

It's all in the wrist, same with the dragon punch. I never understood those complaints. You can throw fireballs all day but you can't press forward first? Come on.

thepenguin55 · Nov 8, 2019

TheGhost said:
It's all in the wrist, same with the dragon punch. I never understood those complaints. You can throw fireballs all day but you can't press forward first? Come on.

It's actually a pretty relatable problem. I remember back in the day looking at the zig zag that is always shown for the input of the Dragon Punch and being like "what the fuck is that?"

TheGhost · Nov 8, 2019

thepenguin55 said:
It's actually a pretty relatable problem. I remember back in the day looking at the zig zag that is always shown for the input of the Dragon Punch and being like "what the fuck is that?"

Yeah they over complicate the actual description of the motion. Wasn't that hard to adjust from arcade stick to SNES though. It's simply forward and fireball motion and that was that.
Trying to do those standing flashkicks only the computer can do.....now that was hard (and impossible lol)

Janna OP · Nov 8, 2019

TheGhost said:
Yeah they over complicate the actual description of the motion. Wasn't that hard to adjust from arcade stick to SNES though. It's simply forward and fireball motion and that was that.
Trying to do those standing flashkicks only the computer can do.....now that was hard (and impossible lol)

just use a hitbox and cheat the system like the computers :v)

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

thepenguin55 said:
Even as someone who plays a lot of fighting games I can have trouble consistently hitting stuff when I'm on the P2 side. My inputs on that side just seem to be less precise for some reason.

because your thumb/hand is an asshole that only likes to work in one direction. You're not alone lol

DeadMoonKing said:
How long is too long/not enough? Is there a count I can do for myself?

Depends on the game but try counting to three. That should be enough. If that works, try shortening it. Eventually you'll just know.

Deleted member 4093 · Nov 8, 2019

thepenguin55 said:
It's actually a pretty relatable problem. I remember back in the day looking at the zig zag that is always shown for the input of the Dragon Punch and being like "what the fuck is that?"

Thats where I first had the issuel. I was doing the descriptions way too literally and still do time from time. I remember looking at SF4 and I saw a Z and I was like how the fuck I'm going to do a Z exactly

Janna OP · Nov 8, 2019

DeadMoonKing said:
How long is too long/not enough? Is there a count I can do for myself?

you can usually look up the exact number of frames but usually it's around 1-1.5 seconds for most charge character special moves.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 8, 2019

Absolute said:
When I first started playing SF2 I always found it easier to guarantee the input if i walked forward before doing it.

If you walk forward before doing it, you'll get a Shoryuken. I don't remember if that was the case in SFII though.

Euler007 · Nov 8, 2019

I don't think I've ever pulled off Zangief's spinning pile driver against a human opponent. Maybe because I didn't have a fight stick.

thepenguin55 · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
because your thumb/hand is an asshole that only likes to work in one direction. You're not alone lol

Yeah I've gotten a better handle on it over time but I definitely have to think about my inputs more on P2 side.

MELLO said:
Thats where I first had the issuel. I was doing the descriptions way too literally and still do time from time. I remember looking at SF4 and I saw a Z and I was like how the fuck I'm going to do a Z exactly

So similarly, when I look up moves online I often now have to pull up a translator AKA "What fuck do these numbers and letters mean?" Again, been playing a lot of fighting games since SF2 on the SNES but if you give me an input string in numbers and letters instead of directions and buttons I'll be totally lost.

DeadMoonKing · Nov 8, 2019

Jaded Alyx said:
Depends on the game but try counting to three. That should be enough. If that works, try shortening it. Eventually you'll just know.

Janna OP said:
you can usually look up the exact number of frames but usually it's around 1-1.5 seconds for most charge character special moves.

Thanks. I guess I'll just keep at it till it clicks.

The Hadouken input: Do you struggle with it? Let's help.

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