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Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
https://madison365.com/what-no-one-wants-to-talk-about-race-and-progressive-cities/

Interesting article and how so many "progressive" cities are really just smoke and mirrors bullshit. Nice to see San Fran and Portland get knocked down a peg. Fuck those places.

Madison, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, San Francisco.

These are America's most progressive, forward-thinking, open-minded, and social-justice-focused cities. They also have the worst racial disparities in the nation and some of the worst racial segregation.

It just doesn't make sense on paper. It's not supposed to be this way. But the statistics don't lie. Rampant black and brown poverty within blocks of white affluence. Eye-popping racial disparity numbers in employment, education, health, housing, and more. Black and brown people of all socioeconomic backgrounds feeling uncomfortable and unwanted in progressive cities that are often segregated as bad as Jim Crow Deep South. In the end, there is very little "Coexisting" in the land of "Coexist" bumper stickers.

Tim Wise, one of the nation's most prominent anti-racist essayists, educators, activists, and pioneers, tells Madison365 about a conversation over coffee he had with an African American friend in the San Francisco Bay Area who explained in very stark detail why San Francisco was the most racist place he had ever lived in. "This man was in his 50s and had lived in Birmingham, Alabama. He'd lived in Dallas. He'd lived in St. Louis. He said that San Francisco to him was the most racist place he had ever lived," Wise recalls. "As we teased that out, of course, he was talking about what Ralph Ellison talked about in 'Invisible Man' … that feeling of being invisible and of people looking right through you and not really being seen. In some ways, to have that happen in a place like San Francisco has to be more weighty … to have a reputation of being X, but you're really Y.

"At least if you're in Birmingham, you know you ain't X and you know how to protect yourself and prepare yourself," Wise adds. "This guy was like, 'It's amazing living in San Francisco all the crap I experienced that these white liberals just didn't see at all.' He ended up moving back to the South, too, because it was so much easier to deal with the overt racism than the covert, colorblind racism that you deal with in liberal cities."

Wise, whom scholar and philosopher Cornel West calls "a vanilla brother in the tradition of (abolitionist) John Brown," says progressive cities need to take a deep look at themselves on issues of race. It's a populace that is so preocupied with pointing out and condemning racism in more conservative parts of the country, he says, that they completely ignore what is happening in their own progressive backyards. For example:

Austin is top-10 in the most segregated cities in the United States … described as "a rich Texas town that holds on to its whiteness for dear life." Austin is the only fast-growing United States city losing African Americans.

◆ In comparison to their white counterparts, black adults in San Francisco are much more likely to be arrested, booked into county jail and convicted, according to a racial and ethnic disparities report

Portland shows a persistent disparity between how often whites and blacks are stopped and searched.

Minneapolis has seen the formation of the some of the nation's widest racial disparities,and the nation's worst segregation in a predominantly white area

◆ Closer to home in Madison, African Americans in Dane County are 5.5 times more likely to be unemployed than their white neighbors. African American families are 6 times more likely to be poor with children 13 times more likely to live in poverty than their white classmates. This disparity in child poverty was the largest among any jurisdiction in the United States. Nearly three-quarters of black children in 2011 were poor compared to 5.5% of white children. This is just the tip of the iceberg, to read more about Madison racial disparities click here.
 

Lackless

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
I've been to Austin plenty of times and I will never understand people who consider that a beacon in Texas. My friend and I have had some of the most awkward encounters in that city. From bartenders refusing for him to open a tab, a group we were talking too calling him "useless" because he doesn't partake in BLM marches, and a group of girls that didn't trust him watching their purses but were fine when I volunteered (they met us both 6 hours prior). He was born and raised in Louisiana and he told me that was the worst racism he's ever experienced.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,105
well duh.

ive posted a few times about san francisco being outwardly racist. fairly often in fact. that's just how the city has always been. all cities are like that.
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,624
Arizona
I can just hear conservatives yelling "See? This proves that Democrats are the real racists, and always have been!"
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
Not surprising, liberal cities have some of the worst wealth distribution. Even if not intentional it tends to fall on racial lines as the opportunity gap widens the class gap.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Of all these cities (and I haven't been to Madison, to be fair), San Francisco seems by far the worst. That city is deeply messed up on a wide variety of levels, and it's going to take decades of reform and legislation to unfuck it.

Racism takes many forms, and the truth is, you can't really escape it anywhere in the country.
 

Deleted member 8118

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,639
I just made a thread about dealing with racism in my job in the Bay Area/SF. I grew up in Saint Louis, MO, and as the man at the very part said, black people are invisible here unless you're trying to be a fucking please all, ass kissing token.

Don't even get started with the inequality.

My biggest problem is that a lot of the bastards from these cities guilty of said behavior look down on places/industrial Midwestern cities. When I tell people I'm from Missouri I often get uneducated responses and asked about racism there, and while it exists there's points and times where being racially profiled isn't something on my mind because race relations are, despite being a constant issue, are much better than the cities mentioned.
 
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Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
This is very surprising to me. I was under the impression that the people living in those cities would be more enlightened.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,689
Canada
This is very surprising to me. I was under the impression that the people living in those cities would be more enlightened.

It's a different kind of racism. It's not the southern "racially insult the black man walking down the street", it's more the "completely ignore the existence of the black man walking down the street" kind of racism.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,454
San Francisco
Urban racial disparity seems to be tied pretty closely to financial disparity which is a national problem that gets accentuated in higher density places like cities. In the countryside shit is spaced out. In cities you have section 8 neighborhoods near luxury highrise. Rich privileged and white seems to go hand in hand. Of course you're going to find concentrations of those worst in cities. Shit, trump for god sakes.

Growing up in North Carolina though, living in bakersfield (the most racist place I've ever seen) and now living in SF, just saying that cities are the worst is oversimplifying this shit. In cities you're more likely to run into both allies and bigots from population density alone.

All that being said, that's why cities have to be the front lines in the civil rights front. People are too close to gloss over that stuff.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,647
I feel like Orlando is a pretty progressive city. I mean we are certainly welcoming of the LGBT community considering our cop cars have pride flags painted onto them and such. I don't notice a lot of racism or bigotry.

Of course if you move outside of Orlando that's a WHOLE different story...
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
America's racism problem is seriously so ingrained within our culture that even the most liberal thinking areas perpetuate and further discrimination.
 

Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,119
This is very surprising to me. I was under the impression that the people living in those cities would be more enlightened.

In the case of Minneapolis, it's segregation via education reform and the poverty housing industry. Both are powerful groups with their own lobbyists.

The racism is basically removed from overt decisions and into multiple political machines that have their own financial interests. The common person man or may not be interested in desegregating society, but to truly do that they have to be informed enough to know how to vote against the existing housing and education system. Charter school networks are very powerful in the US.

I say this as someone who barely understands the situation myself. I'd be interested in hearing any more educated takes on Minneapolis' situation.
 
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signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
I assume "overt" racist cities are segregating based on race and "progressive" ones are doing so based on wealth vs. poverty which just results in racial segregation.
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
I feel like Orlando is a pretty progressive city. I mean we are certainly welcoming of the LGBT community considering our cop cars have pride flags painted onto them and such. I don't notice a lot of racism or bigotry.

Of course if you move outside of Orlando that's a WHOLE different story...
It's possible you don't notice it because most of the time it is so low key.

Most racism isn't chanting slurs during an alt right rally, it's people at the checkout suddenly becoming cold toward a customer for no apparent reason, or a police officer ticketing a black teenager for something he'd let a white kid off with a warning for etc.

Most of the time these low key incidents are of the type where you could tell yourself it wasn't racist, it was just someone having a bad day day or that they were busy or preoccupied.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
I heard the same exact thing from a co worker. She lives in Oregon and have lived in the south. She told me that she would rather deal with the BS of direct racism then to deal with the colorblind ignorance of white people in Oregon despite the superficial appearance of being more tolerant.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
I feel like it just tends to get magnified, like everything else in a city environment, because of the density and sheer populations of cities compared to say a suburb. The actual rate per population is probably not any higher if not less.

Same thing when people talk about homelessness. Compared to population size, the homeless population in a city center would look outsized just because of the concentrations of population there.
 
Oct 31, 2017
197
Racism in SF so nuanced it's akin to a sommelier profiled wine from a nice upscale restaurant in a gentrified neighborhood.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
What's meant by the term "colorblind racism"?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness_(race)

Read the criticisms section

This is very surprising to me. I was under the impression that the people living in those cities would be more enlightened.

When you realize that these people living in these cities are affluent who tend to live segregated from the poorer and browner residents then it'll start to make sense. That experience will likely inform your worldview and not in a way that'll make you less racist.

Gentrification is a major problem
 
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MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,647
It's possible you don't notice it because most of the time it is so low key.

Most racism isn't chanting slurs during an alt right rally, it's people at the checkout suddenly becoming cold toward a customer for no apparent reason, or a police officer ticketing a black teenager for something he'd let a white kid off with a warning for etc.

Most of the time these low key incidents are of the type where you could tell yourself it wasn't racist, it was just someone having a bad day day or that they were busy or preoccupied.

Florida itself has a very large Hispanic population and is one of the most iconic tourist destinations. It's hard to go a day where you don't hear a foreign language from a family on a trip abroad. Those factors I feel help make Orlando more tolerant of other cultures.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
Thanks for the replies, everyone. It seems that people may have stopped expressing racist views in these cities but they haven't abandoned those views.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
White liberals were a mistake.

And as for the colourblind racism. Reminds me of this forum, as this place is rife with it.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264

Cheers.

So am I right in thinking that while colour-blindness is the ultimate end game, people are claiming that/acting like it is already here to sidestep the issues still prevelant today?

With regards to community segregation and gentrification, I appreciate that economics have been used to batter black communities, but how much of those issues are predominantly down to class as opposed to race in the US?
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
Sucks to hear this since i plan to move there soon. Any organizations or efforts that could be joined to help?
Any examples? Not in a passive-aggressive way but I'm just wondering what a colorblind racist post looks like since I'm fairly uninformed on that topic.
I feel like those recent eminem threads were filled with it.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Any examples? Not in a passive-aggressive way but I'm just wondering what a colorblind racist post looks like since I'm fairly uninformed on that topic.
Any affirmative action thread if you want examples from here. Typically you'll see an argument like "It's completely racist for one group to be preferred over another group and this should be a meritocracy." The problem with that thinking is that it's ultimately a just-world fallacy. Yes, in a perfect world this would be a meritocracy but we don't live in that world instead we live in a world where black people for example are historically disadvantaged in numerous ways. People who subscribe to Colorblindness just assume we are all on even footing since the civil rights bill got passed and therefore any issue people face is just a result of not working hard enough.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Any affirmative action thread if you want examples from here. Typically you'll see an argument like "It's completely racist for one group to be preferred over another group and this should be a meritocracy." The problem with that thinking is that it's ultimately a just-world fallacy. Yes, in a perfect world this would be a meritocracy but we don't live in that world instead we live in a world where black people for example are historically disadvantaged in numerous ways. People who subscribe to Colorblindness just assume we are all on even footing since the civil rights bill got passed and therefore any issue people face is just a result of not working hard enough.
Every casting controversy thread is this.
 

Septic

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,071
I can honestly say the racism, particularly against blacks, is so overt in the US in general compared to London.

I've mentioned it before but Miami Music Week was a real eye opener when I literally saw blacks being segregated in tiny little pockets and they were the most approachable and down to earth peeps too. I did ask several people if this was a product of Trump's coming to power but they all said that this kind of treatment was always the case. Trump just made it worse.

The US it seems, has a long way to go...
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I wonder what Houston ranks like. Been living there for thirteen years and I've had maybe one racist encounter, as a Mexican with a pronounced accent.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
I have to point out the irony that the entire thing is kicked off with a white guy going "I have black friends".

The core of the problem (and I think is possibly an even bigger issue in Europe) is that we're ultimately letting "virtuous" white people dictate what coexistance and progressiveness mean, and their definitions is way too often centered on what feels good to them.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Cheers.

So am I right in thinking that while colour-blindness is the ultimate end game, people are claiming that/acting like it is already here to sidestep the issues still prevelant today?

With regards to community segregation and gentrification, I appreciate that economics have been used to batter black communities, but how much of those issues are predominantly down to class as opposed to race in the US?
Race and Class are intimately intertwined. As it turns out you create an underclass of people when you bar them from opportunity, having a political presence, and owning wealth and land for generations.

Every casting controversy thread is this.

I'm remind of that Netflix Witcher thread. Yeesh
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Any examples? Not in a passive-aggressive way but I'm just wondering what a colorblind racist post looks like since I'm fairly uninformed on that topic.
Anything that tries to make race irrelevant. Like someone talks about lack or representation of people of color in media and someone says "it shouldn't matter what race they are if the character is well written.
 

Deleted member 11173

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
609
First - that article is full of typos.

  1. Almost every city listed has experienced or is experiencing an unsustainable amount of growth, that growth is generally driven by employers that attract high income jobs in STEM.
  2. Anytime you have this type of growth situation a wave of gentrification will push out lower income folks and put people in really tough places, it is passive systemic racism.
I'd like to think we aren't actively being racist, but there is an undercurrent that just keeps minorities down.
This begins to be explained as an education issue. Minorities do not get the same opportunities to compete in STEM fields as other folks.
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/fact-sheet-spurring-african-american-stem-degree-completion


No STEM degrees > little opportunity in these growth cities > you are relegated to lower income work > you are pushed out of the city if you are fortunate > you are pushed into poverty if you don't leave.



Tadaa!!! Look at that, racism starts with K-12 education. Always has, always will.
Just take a look at the top employers in the counties that include those cities. - Tech, Healthcare, Engineering, State Universities. If we continue to ignore or just coast on education then that racial divide will never stop growing.

Beyond that a lot of PNW cities were the last bastion of safety for mega racists who set up shop there in the 1800-1900's.

This article sucks ass - the harsh truth is that it is just a surface level finger point at the current landscape with no scope of how we got there.
 
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Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
Race and Class are intimately intertwined. As it turns out you create an underclass of people when you bar them from opportunity, having a political presence, and owning wealth and land for generations.

Sure, but (and forgive me for being hopelessly naive) doesn't low/sub classes cover a broader demographic than just the black communities? It effectively means a larger pool to draw from when it comes to taking action and being heard, no?
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Sure, but (and forgive me for being hopelessly naive) doesn't low/sub classes cover a broader demographic than just the black communities? It effectively means a larger pool to draw from when it comes to taking action and being heard, no?
You're not naive that is true. It's just because of racism black people are more likely to in poverty than white people proportionally speaking.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
not even remotely surprising

Any examples? Not in a passive-aggressive way but I'm just wondering what a colorblind racist post looks like since I'm fairly uninformed on that topic.
pointing to examples will lead to being banned on this site. It's weird like that ain't it?
ban chance increases as times move outside of US time zones but doesn't really matter in the long run
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
How I see it being more 'enlightened' makes you more blind to the inequalities in the world. It makes one believe that the problems don't exist as much as they do.


They take pride in being labelled liberal or progressive because it makes them feel superior to other white folks. Caring about, or even noticing, the issues faced by ethnic minorities isn't done because that might bum them out.