The Hill : Bernie Sanders signals support for renegotiating israeli weapons contracts and annual aid over settlements

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,063
Time and time again, Sanders has put forth excellent policies, and yet you will still have people insisting that they won't vote for him. It's unfortunate to see. Sure he has personality flaws like all other humans, but he would make a terrific leader -- an inspiration to all. Whenever people talk about wanting a president to represent the average, every day person, Bernie is that person.

It's refreshing to see a politician against the right-wing Israeli government.
Go look at the Political ERA OT in ETC. Hangouts. There are 4 to 5 regulars there who fling shit at Sanders every goddamn chance. It's exhausting.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,208
New Jersey
That's what happens unfortunately, but as long as Sanders continues to put out good policy like this, i think that should be most important...of course that goes to the next issue...this kind of thread should have a lot more posts than it does considering the seriousness of the issue
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,516
Sydney
That's what happens unfortunately, but as long as Sanders continues to put out good policy like this, i think that should be most important...of course that goes to the next issue...this kind of thread should have a lot more posts than it does considering the seriousness of the issue
Any positive news about Bernie will have the usual suspects all inexplicably absent.
 

Jeb

Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
951
Isreal doesn’t deserve a dime.

People struggle to pay their taxes and their tax money goes to a genocidal state with a strong sustainable economy and what does it continue to do? Continue oppressing, displacing and murdering innocents.

Having said that, Bernie’s stance is a breath of fresh air as every other politician would demand giving them even MORE money unconditionally while both parties would gang up on any one questioning why.

He’s at least using it as a leverage for peace.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,900
Warren is pretty great, but add this to the list of reasons Bernie is still #1.
She’s got some great unique domestic proposals (government pharmaceuticals), but yeah, Bernie is rounding out well with good foreign policy. Trump isn’t just wrecking us after all. There’s a lot of trust to rebuild in the world. Many nations on the precipice of war and a dependable US can help with diplomatic intervention. Gotta mend coalitions, build global solidarity.

I think he’s also the only candidate so far to support the liberation of Lula Da Silva
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,528
Sydney
She’s got some great unique domestic proposals (government pharmaceuticals), but yeah, Bernie is rounding out well with good foreign policy. Trump isn’t just wrecking us after all. There’s a lot of trust to rebuild in the world. Many nations on the precipice of war and a dependable US can help with diplomatic intervention. Gotta mend coalitions, build global solidarity.

I think he’s also the only candidate so far to support the liberation of Lula Da Silva
He's way better than in 2016 when his pitch on foreign policy was basically he didn't vote for the Iraq War.
 

kaylaz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
701
good. Bernie has been consistent in his views on Israel for a long time and he’s not going to shy away from it.


Go look at the Political ERA OT in ETC. Hangouts. There are 4 to 5 regulars there who fling shit at Sanders every goddamn chance. It's exhausting.
Yep and they claim we are going to destroy the democratic primary process lmao.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,208
New Jersey
I feel like Sanders in the bully pulpitt can really sell the idea of why the US should not be a homewrecker and instead work to rebuild places our own policy has destroyed(and is destroying under trump)...not in terms of interventionist aid, but actual ending of conflicts and things we are actually fomenting and playing a real part in.

Of course, the same neoliberal people in the media and elsewhere will cry about "abandoning our allies!" and make it a Trump allusion, again to try and make a fake narrative out of things...but its something that needs to be done
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
353
Aaaaaaaaand he is losing votes. Why not keep this to yourself until you win.
Who's vote is he losing? Why would he keep it to himself? With all of the attention on him THIS is the time to make his case that we need to back away from Israel and SA.

Why do people keep trying to do this weird meta political shit where we try to guess what other people want to vote for (so that "we" can get in power) who end up just doing what those in power want anyway?

Why is being earnest and standing on principle a bad thing to so many people here?
 

Razgreez

Member
Apr 13, 2018
360
Who's vote is he losing? Why would he keep it to himself? With all of the attention on him THIS is the time to make his case that we need to back away from Israel and SA.

Why do people keep trying to do this weird meta political shit where we try to guess what other people want to vote for (so that "we" can get in power) who end up just doing what those in power want anyway?

Why is being earnest and standing on principle a bad thing to so many people here?
For the same reason that many refuse to view trump as a symptom rather than a cause. Bernie is supposed to (must) support the same evils the majority of the democratic party representatives and their constituents do
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,208
New Jersey
For the same reason that many refuse to view trump as a cause rather than a symptom. Bernie is supposed to (must) support the same evils the majority of the democratic party representatives and their constituents do
Dont you have that backwards? Trump is a symptom of a broken system, the problems that have gotten worse under him didnt start under him. Its a dual sided affair going back decades with both parties being complicit
 

ItsBobbyDarin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,447
Egyptian residing in Denmark
Who's vote is he losing? Why would he keep it to himself? With all of the attention on him THIS is the time to make his case that we need to back away from Israel and SA.

Why do people keep trying to do this weird meta political shit where we try to guess what other people want to vote for (so that "we" can get in power) who end up just doing what those in power want anyway?

Why is being earnest and standing on principle a bad thing to so many people here?
America is still pro Israel. Bernie is still not popular enough to win the primaries, so he needs to say a lot of populistic stuff. Just like trump! I came across this video yesterday. Worth taking a look at it.

 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,208
New Jersey
America is still pro Israel. Bernie is still not popular enough to win the primaries, so he needs to say a lot of populistic stuff. Just like trump! I came across this video yesterday. Worth taking a look at it.
Your view of politics is extremely simplistic.

Sanders says "populistic" stuff just by a result of having a certain position and advocating for it. It has nothing to do with toeing a voting line, especially not one as completely heinous and evil as the evangelical vote. The far right has that locked in
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
555
Who's vote is he losing? Why would he keep it to himself? With all of the attention on him THIS is the time to make his case that we need to back away from Israel and SA.

Why do people keep trying to do this weird meta political shit where we try to guess what other people want to vote for (so that "we" can get in power) who end up just doing what those in power want anyway?

Why is being earnest and standing on principle a bad thing to so many people here?
He certainly will have not have the support of the pro-Israel media in the US. The so called liberal NYT will write hit pieces on how Bernie did not meet anyone at state fairs and CNN's Jake Tapper will attack him with republican talking points and not give him time to answer in debates.

It's hard to win elections if the media is against you. Same issue Corbyn has in the UK. Propaganda and the media is important for elections. That's what the Russians exploited and that's what fox news does. Trump won last time in part because of the exorbitant media attention on him.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
353
America is still pro Israel. Bernie is still not popular enough to win the primaries, so he needs to say a lot of populistic stuff. Just like trump! I came across this video yesterday. Worth taking a look at it.

I'm aware of the reasons why America as an institution is fervently pro-Israel; however, that's not what I'm and others here are getting at.

If you want that to change, then you have to put the counter-narrative out there that we shouldn't be supporting Israel because of x, y, and z. Otherwise, you're defering to the narrative of the status quo....which means you lose. This is why he gained so much popularity in 2016 because he was saying what no one in the political class was saying and had the proof to back up that hes been supporting this for decades.

This is one reason why conservatives dominate the narrative in the United States, they are relentless and have numerous grifters out there to reinforce their message day in and day out, no matter how much bullshit it is. They force the issue, normalize it and then everyone else has to talk to it.

He certainly will have not have the support of the pro-Israel media in the US. The so called liberal NYT will write hit pieces on how Bernie did not meet anyone at state fairs and CNN's Jake Tapper will attack him with republican talking points and not give him time to answer in debates.

It's hard to win elections if the media is against you. Same issue Corbyn has in the UK. Propaganda and the media is important for elections. That's what the Russians exploited and that's what fox news does. Trump won last time in part because of the exorbitant media attention on him.
I hear what you're saying, but here's a spoiler:

These people/institutions weren't going to support him anyway! The pro-israel lobby are already aware of who he is, the folks who own the media networks know who he is and are not going to support him because his goals runs counter to theirs.

It makes ZERO sense politically to try to gain the support of folks who want the OPPOSITE of what you want.

Leftists/progressives are not going to win by trying to capture of the support of those in the power strucutre, it has to as bottom up as possible.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,669
Good on Bern-dawg. How long until non-Jewish republicans will try to label him as self-hating? I‘ve already seen people try to reframe his ancestry.
 
Oct 27, 2017
997
UK
Many politicians (including Trump) has tried to keep a fair stance on making sure that there is a peaceful resolution in that region....until they actually got into office. Although Obama was not happy with Israel's policies (and with Bibi) during his presidency, he was only able to express it externally during his 2nd term (with the UN abstain at the end of his presidency being the only thing US could do...an abstain). Trump had even come out during his presidential campaign stating that he'd want to hear the arguments from both sides, come to a neutral understanding of the situation and come up with a fair solution that keeps both sides happy. Given Trump's track record since 2016, it is quite blatant that this was a blatant lie as Trump's family (specifically his son-in-law) has close personal relations with Bibi. and Given US foreign policy favouring its closest Middle Eastern ally as a benefit to the nation, Trump will not jeopardise his business and personal friendship with Bibi and his family for the sake of peace in that region...especially when money can be made. So while I am a firm believer that Sanders can swim against the US foreign policy current and he is certainly capable of expressing this during his presidential campaigns, I'd prefer to wait and see if he's capable of cashing in on these cheques if he actually becomes president. It'll definitely be easier said than done.
 
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M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
Bernie isn't exactly my ideal candidate, but at least he has a foreign policy I can get behind. Which is something when the Dem line-up include idiots who are more than happy to continue Trump's insane embassy move, nvm the US's historical counterproductive stance on this issue.

Problem, of course, is that regardless if he or someone else adopts this position and becomes President, the main opposition is going to come from the party itself.
Congress will host Netanyahu yet again to rebuke the President's insufficient support for Israel.

Many politicians (including Trump) has tried to keep a fair stance on making sure that there is a peaceful resolution in that region....until they actually got into office. Although Obama was not happy with Israel's policies (and with Bibi) during his presidency, he was only able to express it externally during his 2nd term (with the UN abstain at the end of his presidency being the only thing US could do...an abstain). Trump had even come out during his presidential campaign stating that he'd want to hear the arguments from both sides, come to a neutral understanding of the situation and come up with a fair solution that keeps both sides happy. Given Trump's track record since 2016, it is quite blatant that this was a blatant lie as Trump's family (specifically his son-in-law) has close personal relations with Bibi. and Given US foreign policy favouring its closest Middle Eastern ally as a benefit to the nation, Trump will not jeopardise his business and personal friendship with Bibi and his family for the sake of peace in that region...especially when money can be made. So while I am a firm believer that Sanders can swim against the US foreign policy current and he is certainly capable of expressing this during his presidential campaigns, I'd prefer to wait and see if he's capable of cashing in on these cheques if he actually becomes president. It'll definitely be easier said than done.
Uh... what?!
Who the fuck in their right minds thought Trump was ever going to care about what the Palestinians wanted, or was genuine in any way in wanting peace when his whole platform is all about telling brown people to fuck off and die?!
Using Trump as an example for "wanting peace until they are in office" is weird af.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,823
America is still pro Israel. Bernie is still not popular enough to win the primaries, so he needs to say a lot of populistic stuff. Just like trump! I came across this video yesterday. Worth taking a look at it.

Hasn't there been a poll where it shows the voters or at least liberal and left leaning voters don't really give a shit about Israel and it's mostly the politicians that do
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,467
Good. Most Presidents before Trump also attempted to leverage military aid to change policies in the region. Think that's not going to get much traction until Netanyahu leaves (provided someone worse doesn't get in).
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,619
Why do I feel like it wouldn't be surprising to see those republican fucks call Bernie an antisemite for even suggesting this? They love to call people that whenever they are not 100% behind Bibi, so I wouldn't put it past them to call a democratic jew an antisemite.
Who cares what Republican talking points will be? They are going to label anyone to the left of them as a communist, a socialist, antisemite, antichristian, etc regardless. The problem is when democrats adopts Republican talking points which we see quite often sadly.
Go look at the Political ERA OT in ETC. Hangouts. There are 4 to 5 regulars there who fling shit at Sanders every goddamn chance. It's exhausting.
Yeah the same folks whine that Bernie supporters are the toxic ones. I'm sure if someone combed through the threads and tallied all the insults and personal attacks, moderate-era would win be a landslide. It's too toxic for me to even bother anymore and mods sides with it.