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The Hobbit (1977) movie is so much better than RotK

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Border

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Oct 25, 2017
14,859
The Rankin/Bass Hobbit is so damned great. I feel like the voice actors they got for Gollum, Gandalf, and Bilbo were absolutely wonderful. Gandalf in particular is great -- I feel like he is every bit as good as Ian McKellan. All of the songs are excellent and they mix the light-hearted nature of the book with a kind of melancholy and seriousness that you didn't really see in animation until Studio Ghibli really got rolling.

Decades later I was so delighted to see South Park do a brief but highly amusing tribute to The Hobbit in the form of Lemmywinks (and later Wikileaks).

Return of the King was such an odd bird. While it's nowhere near as good as The Hobbit, they did about the best they could considering they had to condense 3 books' worth of characters and exposition into a brief TV movie. They were doomed to fail, but if you look at it as a companion piece to the books rather than a straightforward adaption it is more satisfying. The songs and music are still great, and I think ROTK still gives you all the heart and emotion of the story without getting too mired in all the details.
 

Deleted member 16516

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Would like to see a modern attempt at an animated Tolkien story. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Middle-earth tale.
 
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Bengraven

Bengraven

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It's funny when talking about the music.

Howard Shore's LOTR music has a beautiful, eerie and mysterious feel to the "lore" parts of the film. I'm specifically talking about "Shadow of the Past" and any mention of the ring's evil influence. But the Hobbit's soundtrack is just as eerie and beautiful and mysterious at times. It's a different STYLE but seems to get the same points across.

I find both just as effective, but maybe the Hobbit's even more. The Shore soundtrack gives you a bit of a chill in regards to the horrors of the ancient past, but the Hobbit's soundtrack makes you hold your breath around the fire as someone tells you the story of Smaug's destroying of the dwarf lands. It stays with you longer. It's a shadowed stranger with fox-like eyes who smiles a bit too wide and plays the guitar while telling you the story and the autumn wind chills you to the bone. Or was that the wind?


(see mods, I'm a mature adult who can analyze and critique. Now remove the 1977 from the title, punks)

Edmond Dantès said:
Would like to see a modern attempt at an animated Tolkien story. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Middle-earth tale.
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Roverandom would be interesting, but I worry it would be made into a formulaic CGI movie. Ideally, Cartoon Saloon would do a fantastic job.

Farmer Giles would be fantastic if they could do it in a more traditional animated style. OR it would be awesome to get Laika to do a stop motion film.
 
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Bengraven

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
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Soundscream said:
You sneaky mother fucker!
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ZQHuESr.png
 
Woodbeam

Woodbeam

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May 6, 2019
687
I see a lot of badmouthing of the animated Return of the King in here, but I watched both it and the Rankin-Bass Hobbit so many times as a kid. Love them both, their music, their art direction, their voice performances, all fantastic. Haven't seen either in many years, but this early sequence from RotK really stuck with me:

Also Where There's a Whip There's a Way absolutely slaps.
 

Deleted member 16516

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Bengraven said:
It's funny when talking about the music.

Howard Shore's LOTR music has a beautiful, eerie and mysterious feel to the "lore" parts of the film. I'm specifically talking about "Shadow of the Past" and any mention of the ring's evil influence. But the Hobbit's soundtrack is just as eerie and beautiful and mysterious at times. It's a different STYLE but seems to get the same points across.

I find both just as effective, but maybe the Hobbit's even more. The Shore soundtrack gives you a bit of a chill in regards to the horrors of the ancient past, but the Hobbit's soundtrack makes you hold your breath around the fire as someone tells you the story of Smaug's destroying of the dwarf lands. It stays with you longer. It's a shadowed stranger with fox-like eyes who smiles a bit too wide and plays the guitar while telling you the story and the autumn wind chills you to the bone. Or was that the wind?


(see mods, I'm a mature adult who can analyze and critique. Now remove the 1977 from the title, punks)



Roverandom would be interesting, but I worry it would be made into a formulaic CGI movie. Ideally, Cartoon Saloon would do a fantastic job.

Farmer Giles would be fantastic if they could do it in a more traditional animated style. OR it would be awesome to get Laika to do a stop motion film.
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If not those two, then an animated Silmarillion would be a marvel to see.
 
skeezx

skeezx

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Oct 27, 2017
20,119
Jesse_and_the_rippers said:
God, me too. I was firmly in the "LotR has to be animated" camp leading up to Jackson's movie. I swear, there were dozens of us.
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yeah in the 90s it was generally accepted that was the only way it could ever be done (though i think a TV miniseries was in pre production hell or something). nobody ever really expected there to be a live action adaptation
 

Sandstar

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Oct 28, 2017
7,737
As always, I like to point out that the Rankin/Bass hobbit did the entire book in less time than it took for the Peter jackson version to get out of the shire.
 
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Bengraven

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
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L176 said:
Delete yourself OP
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Sandstar said:
As always, I like to point out that the Rankin/Bass hobbit did the entire book in less time than it took for the Peter jackson version to get out of the shire.
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And was a complete story with an even pace. I believe the only major thing missing was Beorn?

Interesting sidenote, apparently there was a Hobbit book with illustrations based on the animated movie and they did add Beorn to the book?

So here's Beorn, how he would have looked in The Hobbit:
Beorn1.jpg
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You know anything of this, Dantes?
 
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Bengraven

Bengraven

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Edmond Dantès said:
If not those two, then an animated Silmarillion would be a marvel to see.
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I've given up hope in seeing the Silmarillion in any form in my lifetime. But stranger things have happened these days.

We will get a peek during the Amazon show but we'll see. An animated series, maybe getting Genndy Tartakovsky, feels like a dream.


Lmo2017 said:
I love The Hobbit.

I still hum the songs when I'm working on things.

"The road go ever ever and on..."
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I still sing the version Gandalf is singing in the Jackson Fellowship. I love that scene.
 
Zulith

Zulith

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Oct 25, 2017
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I watched the 77 Hobbit on laserdisc probably 50 times as a kid. Many times since then too and always loved it, despite how rushed it feels at points. It's just so magical. Love the animation, music, art style, etc. 80 RotK is a substantial step down but I'm still fond of it. Just wish they had decided to do the entire LotR. I know why they made it that way, but it was a mistake IMO.

I credit 77 Hobbit for sparking my love of the fantasy genre which resulted in many long years of Dungeons & Dragons campaigns.

When I think about The Hobbit I always think in terms of that film's overall style, and not the Jackson trilogy. Though I mostly like how that turned out, unlike some.
 
Wag

Wag

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Nov 3, 2017
11,638
TaterTots said:
I didn't know there was a animated film. Gonna have to give this a watch when I'm off work.
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You're aware of Ralph Bakshi's LotR that came out in '78? It's interesting- Like a lot of his works it uses rotoscoping, which is animating over live actors.

Now I have to watch all these movies again.
 
GamerJM

GamerJM

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Nov 8, 2017
15,595
I watched the Rankin and Bass Hobbit movie when I was a kid and remember literally nothing of it. No idea they made a LotR movie.
 
Border

Border

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Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Can you imagine anyone ever again making a movie where the songs act as a Greek chorus that comments about the story or on-screen action? Nobody has that sort of earnestness anymore. I honestly really love how so many of the songs elaborate on the world and atmosphere and narrative. "The Wearer of the Ring, The Bearer of the Ring" is probably my favorite.

The Rankin/Bass movies are such a weird anomaly in so many ways. Even if someone attempted to do another animated version of Hobbit or LOTR it wouldn't be remotely similar.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Edmond Dantès said:
If not those two, then an animated Silmarillion would be a marvel to see.
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I think I may have asked you this before -- but has the Tolkein estate ever expressed any opinion on the Rankin/Bass movies (or even the Bakshi one)? They pretty notably objected to the Jackson movies, but I have heard very little about their position on the animated films.

Earlier this year I was at a convention panel with a huge Rankin/Bass buff and asked if he knew anything on the subject, but he only vaguely speculated that the Tolkeins probably didn't like it since they tried to get the rights back, but I figure they probably tried to do that for every production since the film/TV rights were probably sold for a song.
 

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Border said:
I think I may have asked you this before -- but has the Tolkein estate ever expressed any opinion on the Rankin/Bass movies (or even the Bakshi one)? They pretty notably objected to the Jackson movies, but I have heard very little about their position on the animated films.

Earlier this year I was at a convention panel with a huge Rankin/Bass buff and asked if he knew anything on the subject, but he only vaguely speculated that the Tolkeins probably didn't like it since they tried to get the rights back, but I figure they probably tried to do that for every production since the film/TV rights were probably sold for a song.
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The Estate have never officially said anything about the animated films. They've essentially ignored them for 40 years or so. There are old and unverified claims that Priscilla Tolkien met with Ralph Bakshi and he promised to stay true to her father's work, and that's about it.
 
Pilgrimzero

Pilgrimzero

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Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Love this cartoon film. Still holds a special place in my heart. This is how I kind of view D&D. Probably why I prefer 1st ed.

but the elves, why do they look so weird.....
 
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Bengraven

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
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Pilgrimzero said:
Love this cartoon film. Still holds a special place in my heart. This is how I kind of view D&D. Probably why I prefer 1st ed.

but the elves, why do they look so weird.....
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The forest elves definitely look strange, but Elrond looks very traditional.

I like your comparison to early D&D. I wonder if, in these days of nostalgia, we'll ever get a game or movie that feels like a throwback to 70s fantasy.
 
Woodbeam

Woodbeam

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May 6, 2019
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Sanka said:
Of course. Proto- Ghibli produced the animation, so naturally it's great.
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How did I not know this? I'm a 90's kid so I was introduced to these movies very late, but I wonder whether I saw them or my first Ghibli film (My Neighbor Totoro, of course) earlier. It's blowing my mind to think that I was loving Ghibli before I even knew they existed.
 
thewienke

thewienke

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Oct 25, 2017
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The Hobbit animation was a beloved childhood movie for me. For a few years, it was my only basis of understanding for all things "fantasy" (depending on if you allow things like Sleeping Beauty to be counted as fantasy). I had a lot of trouble getting into other works of fantasy like Flight of the Dragons or that weird LOTR movie or Wizards. Turns out that last one really wasn't for kids!
 
Jesse_and_the_rippers

Jesse_and_the_rippers

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Dec 22, 2017
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Thanks to this wonderful thread, I bought the movie digitally and watched with my seven year old daughter over the weekend. She was a little freaked out by the goblins and then the riddles in the dark scene with the "cat frog creature" lol. But she ultimately loved it.
 
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