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Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,879
DOOM (2016) and it's imminent sequel DOOM: ETERNAL have highlighted that people are still open to classic shooter gameplay if it is properly modernized and contextualized.

Would the modern gaming landscape be a ripe place for DOOM's old school contemporary competitor, Marathon (created by Bungie who would later go on to create Halo and Destiny) to make a return?

Marathon was a logical next step from DOOM. It took the core gameplay and crafted an interesting and complex story to give the gameplay a greater sense of purpose. In some ways, Marathon's story probably arrived too early. Technology in video games at the time meant that the complexity of Marathon's story had to be relegated to text boxes.

Fast forward a bit. Games like the Portal series tell stories involving a silent protagonist guided by an AI with questionable moral goals. Prey (2017) (while not quite knocking it out of the park) told a trippy, reality bending sci-fi story set in a series of space corridors. DOOM (2016) showed that classic FPS gameplay is still viable.

Is now finally the time to see a modern take on Marathon? Presumably Bungie still holds the rights to the series, and they announced last year that they want to do stuff other than Destiny. Now that they're on their own, i would argue they need SOMETHING other than Destiny to support themselves.

As a supplement to this question: Video game historians and journalists on Era who might be reading this: What the hell happened to Greg Kirkpatrick after Double Aught's Duality failed to materialize in the late 90's? It seems odd to me that someone with his talent wrote the story for the Marathon series and then literally just disappeared from history. Did he step into an alternate timeline himself?
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
Part of the leaked Activision docs in 2010 referrence blatantly a Marathon reboot/remake. It was likely planned but dev issues with Destiny forced Bungie to abandon the idea

Contract link

Marathon is mentioned dozens of times
 

Joshua

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,727
Part of the leaked Activision docs in 2010 referrence blatantly a Marathon reboot/remake. It was likely planned but dev issues with Destiny forced Bungie to abandon the idea

Contract link

Marathon is mentioned dozens of times
It was interesting how the Activision contract capped Bungie staff participation on a Marathon prototype at 5%. I wonder if interest in revisiting the franchise has survived in the 9 years since that contract was executed?

On a somewhat related side note - Marathon was my very first "online" (aka networked) gaming experience almost 25 years ago. I remember my friend at the time taking us to his parents Silicon Valley office with a bunch of networked Macs (was it AppleTalk back then?) and a bunch of us playing Marathon against each other. The whole experience blew my mind at the time!
 
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Xwing

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,879
Funny calling this a PC classic instead of a MAC classic...

Well, the iOS ports are based on the Aleph One versions of the game, created to make the games run on modern PCs (and Macs).

But yes, they were originally designed and released for the MAC, but to be fair to me, I was using the term "PC shooter" as a genre label to draw the comparison to DOOM.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Well, the iOS ports are based on the Aleph One versions of the game, created to make the games run on modern PCs (and Macs).

But yes, they were originally designed and released for the MAC, but to be fair to me, I was using the term "PC shooter" as a genre label to draw the comparison to DOOM.

I understood, it's just funny because for decades I had heard it described as THE mac game, haha.

I actually just finished playing through the trilogy on a real-deal PPC Mac a few weeks ago, this series holds up really well. Some of the levels are really labyrinthine, kinda like wolfenstein in a bad way, but the core mechanics and story and atmosphere are great. I compare it actually more to like System Shock in terms of tone and style than Doom.

I'd be all for a big remake.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,956
Canada
Yes. Hell yes. Gimme that Durandal comeback.

I think if E3 rolled around and a trailer started with something like "Somewhere in the heavens... they are waiting," and then "Still" or "Again" or whatever popped up, I'd probably audibly lose my shit.

Come on, somebody pay Bungie to make what is essentially Halo but better.
 

Dambrosi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
501
Hmm, I remember playing this once, years back, and it giving me massive nausea and headaches. I don't know why, and it never happened with any other FPS, just Marathon. I can't even remember what I played it on, but it was either PC or Xbox 360.

I'd certainly be up for another go at it to see if I still suffer those side effects now.
 

AustinFordGames

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
551
New Braunfels, Texas
God I hope so. These were my first PC (Mac) shooter games when I was a little kid. My cousin and I bonded over these and it's why I fell in love with Bungie and became a life long Halo fan and Destiny fan. I'd love to see these recreated in a modern light.

There were rumors years ago that Marcus Lehto (joined Bungie in 1997 - former Creative Art Director for Halo 1-3, Game Director on Halo Reach) was working on a reboot with Joe Tung after he left in September of 2011 and returned in January of 2012, but he left the studio for good in October of 2012 and founded V1 Interactive. They're working on a new original IP (FPS). I'd love to see a return to the series!
 

AustinFordGames

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
551
New Braunfels, Texas

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
2,960
Jason Jones did a lot of the story development. I think these guys were just writers. If Jones was interested enough, he could hire a new team of writers and do it all over again.

Oh that's interesting. Did he do a lot of the story development for Halo as well?

Also slightly related but were there ever articles that discussed whether the story goals they had originally outlined for Halo matched what ended up being in the final game?
 

AustinFordGames

The Fallen
Nov 17, 2017
551
New Braunfels, Texas
Oh that's interesting. Did he do a lot of the story development for Halo as well?

Also slightly related but were there ever articles that discussed whether the story goals they had originally outlined for Halo matched what ended up being in the final game?
Initially, yes. He helped Joe Staten a lot with the first game, and oversaw parts of the second but was already away working on a new game in their second office (that never released and who's office closed).
 

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Part of the leaked Activision docs in 2010 referrence blatantly a Marathon reboot/remake. It was likely planned but dev issues with Destiny forced Bungie to abandon the idea

Contract link

Marathon is mentioned dozens of times

That Bungie was working on Marathon at the time was a misunderstanding. That stipulation was to just let them assist with Aleph One.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/763kt3/does_bungie_still_plan_to_reboot_marathon/

Not to beat a dead horse, but the Marathon project was me working to get an online stat system into Marathon for Mac OS and Steam. However that fell through (you can see the groundwork for it in Aleph One). The idea was you could generate a unique key on Bungie.net for your b.net profile, paste it into Aleph One and it would allow A1 to upload stats to Bungie. This was tricky due to the open source nature (Bungie could not put their code out open source). Instead we compromised in a nice and neat repackaging of Marathon for Mac and PC and Linux. They also officially allowed me to release the 360 high rez textures. Bungie provided a few icons for the release and coverage on Bungie.net. They also got me the source code to Pathways into Darkness that I updated to work on modern day OS X. Sorry to burst your bubble on a new Marathon game, but that's all the contract was talking about.

I looked back at the published Bungie/Activision contract and my emails. I can fill in some gaps from my point of view. First, I'm not under an NDA. I was under one when working on Marathon: Durandal with Bungie and Microsoft (MS Games was the publisher). And I think in some ways this begins there. We did a thing with Marathon that tied into your Halo 3 username emblem (basically what Destiny's Emblems are today). If you had Marathon, it would unlock a Pfhor logo. Now what was interesting is, when we started that feature, it was all Marathon logos and such, but we got this weird panicked rush to change it to something that was Marathon-y but not specifically Marathon. We didn't catch on until later that this was because Bungie was leaving Microsoft and didn't want to give them Marathon.

Then sometime in 2008 I decided I wanted to to do a DLC pack for Marathon. I had negotiated a free title update (360 title updates were expensive) with Microsoft, so I put together 2 DLC map packs. All of this had to be cleared by Bungie and Microsoft. Given the timeline of events, this had to be easily during the Activision negotiation timeline.

The next events I might get out of order, but a guy ported the Aleph One engine to iPhone and published Marathon on the app store. While cool it had a lot of problems (I mean it renamed the difficulty levels wtf?). I got in touch with Bungie about this and the conversation turned to some kind of modern release of Marathon. This is probably an extension of discussions they were having internal (this is pure speculation of my part).

I have no doubt that plenty of the old guard holds a flame for Marathon, and that they in no way want to ever lose ownership of it.

On May 22nd 2012 a MTV article ran about work on Marathon:

"Long-time Bungie fans will be happy to hear that they're developing a new Marathon game as well, though the contract dictates that no more than five percent of their staff may work on it while under Activision's employ. This suggests a smaller scale game, possibly set for digital distribution."

I called up a long time friend of mine at Bungie to ask about this (specifically to demand that i work on the project). His reply was that he can't comment in any official capacity, but that it was just a hold over for the iPad port from a while ago. The iPad port was how my conversation started that resulted in me repackaging up the original Trilogy with the Aleph One team.

I do think the numbers in the contract are bizarre, but it's probably boiler plate stuff, and most likely absurd values set by Activision to make sure Bungie does not get a sack of cash for Destiny and turn around and spend it on Marathon. 5% of Bungie isn't that many people. In just repackaging the Trilogy release I was dealing with 2 lawyers, a graphic designer, 2 or 3 Bungie.net engineers, Deej the community manager and a few of the grizzled ancients who wanted to know what was happening with their Marathon. Easily 5% even if it was just for an email or two.

I personally don't think Bungie will ever revisit Marathon in any official capacity. I wish beyond hope that they will, but it just does not seem likely.
 
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Xwing

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,879
That Bungie was working on Marathon at the time was a misunderstanding. That stipulation was to just let them assist with Aleph One.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/763kt3/does_bungie_still_plan_to_reboot_marathon/

Wow, that was incredibly detailed. Thank you for finding that! It is a bummer to hear his perspective on the low likelihood of Bungie ever looking seriously at Marathon again, but at least it's nice to get a bit more insight into the creation of the 360 port.