The Irishman |OT| The Goodfellas are Back in Town (Open Spoilers )

shaneo632

Member
Oct 29, 2017
13,106
Essex, UK
It's really nice seeing a movie like this get so much buzz and discussion on social media, without a superhero in sight! Actually feels like an event.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,055
I don't think that's the implication at all, before that they're still talking about putting pressure on him because they know they can get him to do what they want. It's more just Hoffa not giving a shit and is glad that it happened
I think Bufalino definitely implies the mob is what got to President Kennedy. "If we can take down the president of the country then what's a union president?" or something along those lines.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,620
I didn't terribly care for it.
I think it covered a lot of the same ground that Goodfellas and Casino did, but not as well. I thought the CGI de-aging looked bad and the age of the characters never felt right.
I thought the movie felt weirdly anti-union at times, and in general, I think "organized crime as a metaphor/dark mirror for American life" thing is kinda stretched to the point of break here.

I also thought it was too long and kinda boring at time.

I liked the Action Bronson cameo though, even though it felt like it belonged in a different movie.

Over all, I give it "meh but he's still right about the MCU"/10
 

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,388
a parallel universe
I think Bufalino definitely implies the mob is what got to President Kennedy. "If we can take down the president of the country then what's a union president?" or something along those lines.
It was definitely implied. Its been part of the JFK conspiracies forever that the mob helped JFK get elected and then turned on him when his brother started investigating them.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
409
Those 3 1/2 hours went by real fast. Kind of sad we probably won't see these legends together ever again (Scorsese, Pacino, DeNiro, Pesci) due to age. They are all pushing 80. Great movie.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,055
I didn't terribly care for it.
I think it covered a lot of the same ground that Goodfellas and Casino did, but not as well. I thought the CGI de-aging looked bad and the age of the characters never felt right.
I thought the movie felt weirdly anti-union at times, and in general, I think "organized crime as a metaphor/dark mirror for American life" thing is kinda stretched to the point of break here.

I also thought it was too long and kinda boring at time.

I liked the Action Bronson cameo though, even though it felt like it belonged in a different movie.

Over all, I give it "meh but he's still right about the MCU"/10
On the bolded - I did wonder what the film was saying on the subject. It certainly felt like the unions were shown as just another root of corruption run by mobsters and/or narcissists for their own personal benefit. On the other hand the film is saying this is true for all of America, including the president. Hoffa and the work he does at least gets acknowledged as being for the greater good, his dealings with the mob are justified as the bitter pill he must swallow to operate in this world. I think in some ways really, the film is suggesting the death of Hoffa was the death of organised labour as a real force in the US, which is presented to be a tragedy.

On a different note - I thought Scorsese overdid his use of slomow here (and Silence imo) but it did produce this shot which is one of the more striking images in the film:
 
Last edited:

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,620
On the bolded - I did wonder what the film was saying on the subject. It certainly felt like the unions were shown as just another root of corruption run by mobsters and/or narcissists. On the other hand the film is saying this is true for all of America, including the president. Hoffa and the work he does at least gets acknowledged as being for the greater good, his dealings with the mob are justified as the bitter pill he must swallow to operate in this world. I think in some ways really, the film is suggesting the death of Hoffa was the death of organised labour as a real force in the US, which is presented to be a tragedy.
I don't think Scorsese tried to make an anti-union film, when I said it felt so at times and I meant it earnestly.
I honestly just think it's an attempt to extend the "organized crime as a metaphor for American society" thing to organized labor and I don't really think it works.
But to be clear, had I liked the movie more and just found it to be more engaging on the moment to moment, this is not something that would have terribly bothered me.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,055
I don't think Scorsese tried to make an anti-union film, when I said it felt so at times and I meant it earnestly.
I honestly just think it's an attempt to extend the "organized crime as a metaphor for American society" thing to organized labor and I don't really think it works.
But to be clear, had I liked the movie more and just found it to be more engaging on the moment to moment, this is not something that would have terribly bothered me.
Yeah I understand where you're coming from and I agree with you. That's one of the reasons the film doesn't work for me but I give it credit for attempting to cast an eye towards American political history (some of it anyway) to try and make some sense of it (even if it's not quite successful). This angle of the film is surprisingly little talked about in reviews which seem to be focusing more on the largely non-existent personal journey of Sheeran or casting meta-readings of this being Scorsese looking back on his career. There is more existential dread here than in Goodfellas I guess.
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,282
It was alright. Kind of felt like The main character could have shown some remorse or come to a bad end. Though I guess his end is akin to Pachinos Godfather?

it was alright
 

svacina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,991
It was alright. Kind of felt like The main character could have shown some remorse or come to a bad end. Though I guess his end is akin to Pachinos Godfather?

it was alright
He came to a horrible end. He just did not get killed.

Nothing he did ever really mattered and he ends up completely alone - all his mob friends die before him, his wife dies, his daughters write him off, he has to buy his own coffin and he's so isolated he does not even know it's Christmas.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,620
Yeah I understand where you're coming from and I agree with you. That's one of the reasons the film doesn't work for me but I give it credit for attempting to cast an eye towards American political history (some of it anyway) to try and make some sense of it (even if it's not quite successful). This angle of the film is surprisingly little talked about in reviews which seem to be focusing more on the largely non-existent personal journey of Sheeran or casting meta-readings of this being Scorsese looking back on his career. There is more existential dread here than in Goodfellas I guess.
Yeah, I was expecting to be something more in the last act of the film, if nothing else, we get to see those Scorsese gangsters go into old age. And while it was nice to see them act without that stupid CGI mask, and for sure, it's a very fertile ground for meta analysis, it didn't really got me all that engaged, and if I'm honest, I was kinda ready for the movie to end.
 
Last edited:

MickeyShaban

Member
Nov 11, 2019
8
Great film. Enjoyed it until the end. Hoffa's death surprised me, in how it happened. Was expecting it obviously, but not like that.
 

Vilix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,580
Texas
I noticed the one guy playing Hoffa’s rival in the teamsters organization was played by a guy who was in Band of Brothers. He’s an English actor. I was impressed by his acting.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,620
Great film. Enjoyed it until the end. Hoffa's death surprised me, in how it happened. Was expecting it obviously, but not like that.
The story as it presented in the movie is almost certainly not true.
I am not an expert or anything, but I don't think any serious historian considers I Heard You Pain Houses to be a reliable primary source.
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,477
Anna Paquin as Peggy was not a good casting choice, she was stiffer than Hoffa at the end of the film.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,055
Watched this a second time on Thanksgiving with my folks. On my second viewing I realized that the guy you see getting shot in the head very briefly when De Niro is narrating at the beginning ("I started painting houses... myself") is actually Hoffa; just before the close-up on the wedding invitation.
Good pick up. Interesting having it so up front.
 

Valiant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
Watched this a second time on Thanksgiving with my folks. On my second viewing I realized that the guy you see getting shot in the head very briefly when De Niro is narrating at the beginning ("I started painting houses... myself") is actually Hoffa; just before the close-up on the wedding invitation.
Yup. It's complete foreshadowing without you really quite knowing.

I caught it when it hit netflix too.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,445
I noticed the one guy playing Hoffa’s rival in the teamsters organization was played by a guy who was in Band of Brothers. He’s an English actor. I was impressed by his acting.
Stephen Graham, he was in 2 episodes of Band of Brothers
 
Last edited:

LilWayneSuckz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,232
Movie was excellent.

Not really understanding the criticisms against the length, it felt like the filmmakers made great use of every minute.
 

BrucCLea13k87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,302
That movie was long as fuck. It was just DeNiro being DeNiro. I wasn’t impressed in the slightest. The deaging cg was not done well. I could never tell how old he was supposed to be. Pesci was amazing though. Pacino was Pacino. 🤷🏽
 
Oct 25, 2017
409
Watched this a second time on Thanksgiving with my folks. On my second viewing I realized that the guy you see getting shot in the head very briefly when De Niro is narrating at the beginning ("I started painting houses... myself") is actually Hoffa; just before the close-up on the wedding invitation.
You think I can get a rough timestamp for this? I want to see it but cant find that scene and dont remember it.
 

hydruxo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,707
Anna Paquin as Peggy was not a good casting choice, she was stiffer than Hoffa at the end of the film.
That's the point though. It doesn't have anything to do with Anna Paquin's performance. Any other actress would've done the same because that's just how the character is meant to be. Peggy's silence speaks volumes and when she finally speaks and says "Why?", it's a big moment. Frank is even taken aback by it because she rarely spoke to him. That + the phone call after is one of the few times Frank actually looks like he has some remorse/regret about what he's done. In the context of her lack of a relationship with her father, the silence makes plenty of sense.
 

Samuel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
147
It definitely felt like two movies in one, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I really enjoyed the movie because I loved seeing all these famous mobster actors interacting with one another.

I didn't know this was semi-historical at first, so once I caught on I viewed it in a different lens. I was definitely expecting something more flashy, but considering the context of the movie I don't think I would have appreciated it if it was.

that Action Bronson cameo was so fun though
 

Sectorseven

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
I didn't feel De Niro's character was particularly compelling. He just sort of floats through the movie, borderline without agency. I know it's somewhat by design that he is cold blooded and emotionless, but it doesn't necessarily make for a good character if he doesn't have much of an arc.

Also, did a lot of the Pacino scenes have some abrupt edits?
 

cb1115

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,361
only problem I really had with this movie was that it feels like it should've been made 15-20 years ago. Pacino and De Niro don't act like 80-year-olds, but they sure do move like it lol.

still, this was utterly enrapturing. definitely earned its runtime.
 

JaeCryo

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,143
only problem I really had with this movie was that it feels like it should've been made 15-20 years ago. Pacino and De Niro don't act like 80-year-olds, but they sure do move like it lol.

still, this was utterly enrapturing. definitely earned its runtime.
I laughed when De Niro "beat up" the grocer.

His age was super obvious there.
 

Chikor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,620
I didn't know this was semi-historical at first, so once I caught on I viewed it in a different lens. I was definitely expecting something more flashy, but considering the context of the movie I don't think I would have appreciated it if it was.
Casino and Goodfellas are more historical than this movie.
 

LilWayneSuckz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,232
A criticism of this movie I can get behind is the de-aging technology, it was odd and did not seem to "de-age" them enough to make them look like they were not the age they are in 2019.

Also, does anyone if the de-aging visual effects would disqualify any of the actors from getting best acting nominations?
 

lazybones18

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,729
Watched this a second time on Thanksgiving with my folks. On my second viewing I realized that the guy you see getting shot in the head very briefly when De Niro is narrating at the beginning ("I started painting houses... myself") is actually Hoffa; just before the close-up on the wedding invitation.
So I'm not crazy. It was something that was on my mind after watching it for a 3rd time but it was such a quick shot I couldn't tell.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,483
Orange County
I don't think that's the implication at all, before that they're still talking about putting pressure on him because they know they can get him to do what they want. It's more just Hoffa not giving a shit and is glad that it happened
Huh? No the implication is absolutely that the mob whacked Kennedy. How can you come away from a conversation where a guy says - "If we can whack a president we can whack a union leader"
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,495
I didn't feel De Niro's character was particularly compelling. He just sort of floats through the movie, borderline without agency. I know it's somewhat by design that he is cold blooded and emotionless, but it doesn't necessarily make for a good character if he doesn't have much of an arc.

Also, did a lot of the Pacino scenes have some abrupt edits?
I thought so at first but that last 1/4 of the movie when he found out he had to whack Hoffa, you could really see how conflicted he was. In fact, it really isnt until the end when the character is allowed to show some emotions, particularly regarding his estranged relationship with his daughter.
 
Last edited:

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,483
Orange County
That movie was long as fuck. It was just DeNiro being DeNiro. I wasn’t impressed in the slightest. The deaging cg was not done well. I could never tell how old he was supposed to be. Pesci was amazing though. Pacino was Pacino. 🤷🏽
I disagree completely I don't think Pacino was being Pacino at all. He was much more subdued in this and especially for him showed a lot of restraint. There is something about a Martin Scorsese movie where the dialogue is like a honey going into my ear. No surprise Zaillian was the writer either. I could have watched DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci talk about the their preference of dish detergent for hours on end and been completely enraptured.

Man, the ending is a remin


I thought so at first but that last 1/4 of the movie when he found out he had to whack Hoffa, you could really see how conflicted he was. In fact, it really isnt until the end when the character is allowed to show some emotions, particularly regarding his estranged relationship with his daughter.
Was I wrong or in the end did DeNiro hint that he tried to call Hoffa and he didn't pick up?