The Irishman |OT| The Goodfellas are Back in Town (Open Spoilers )

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,773
Germany
I usually like long movies, but this was too long for me with the middle dragging. Just not my type of film I guess, I need more flair and a compelling lead. It has its place though, very ballsy of Netflix to fund this
 

AniHawk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,176
I thought so at first but that last 1/4 of the movie when he found out he had to whack Hoffa, you could really see how conflicted he was. In fact, it really isnt until the end when the character is allowed to show some emotions, particularly regarding his estranged relationship with his daughter.
it goes back to that first conversation with russel, about war. he's scared of dying - but when the fighting starts, he just gets to work. the 'fighting' is his mob/union life, and when it's over, he's fearful of death again, especially the finality of it. it's why he gets a sturdy coffin placed in a mausoleum as far from the ground as he can.
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,477
That's the point though. It doesn't have anything to do with Anna Paquin's performance. Any other actress would've done the same because that's just how the character is meant to be. Peggy's silence speaks volumes and when she finally speaks and says "Why?", it's a big moment. Frank is even taken aback by it because she rarely spoke to him. That + the phone call after is one of the few times Frank actually looks like he has some remorse/regret about what he's done. In the context of her lack of a relationship with her father, the silence makes plenty of sense.
I get the direction of her character, her presence fell flat, to me. That and I liked the casting of little Peggy so much, who did such a wonderful job with the same emotions, having her grow up into Anna Paquin was disappointing
 

maigret

Member
Jun 28, 2018
224
I disagree completely I don't think Pacino was being Pacino at all. He was much more subdued in this and especially for him showed a lot of restraint. There is something about a Martin Scorsese movie where the dialogue is like a honey going into my ear. No surprise Zaillian was the writer either. I could have watched DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci talk about the their preference of dish detergent for hours on end and been completely enraptured.
I thought Pacino was great in this, and I have to credit Pacino for doing a pretty good Great Lakes type accent throughout the film. That said, there are some amazing scenes with Pesci where he literally doesn't have a single line but communicates so many things just using his face. I'm mainly thinking of the meeting with Angelo (Harvey Keitel) that happens when De Niro is caught about to blow up the laundry service in Delaware. I think of the main three De Niro's performance was the least interesting, but he also had most of the deaging CGI scenes so that should be taken into account. He's still got some amazing scenes, like the Howard Johnson's scene with Pesci ("I had to put you into this thing or you would never let it happen.") and particularly the scenes after he's left prison.
 

Hadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
161
Pacino's face when Deniro told him "It is what it is" is really good. That's my favorite bit of acting from him in this movie.

And Pesci's fucking stare after Crazy Joe insulted him. Damn.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,985
That last 30 minutes starting from when they all ended up in jail really messed me up. I've got a lot of swirling feelings about the movie right now but I really like it. The long runtime didn't feel excessive at any point. Pretty well paced all things considering.
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,825
im going to have to watch it again, but man everyone was great in this. I particular thought Pacino killed it.

And Jim Norton's cameo was really good as well.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,062
That ending hit me harder than any ending to a movie in a very very long time.


Feels like such a sad but fitting goodbye to this genre for Scorsese. I'm gonna miss it.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,483
Orange County
I thought Pacino was great in this, and I have to credit Pacino for doing a pretty good Great Lakes type accent throughout the film. That said, there are some amazing scenes with Pesci where he literally doesn't have a single line but communicates so many things just using his face. I'm mainly thinking of the meeting with Angelo (Harvey Keitel) that happens when De Niro is caught about to blow up the laundry service in Delaware. I think of the main three De Niro's performance was the least interesting, but he also had most of the deaging CGI scenes so that should be taken into account. He's still got some amazing scenes, like the Howard Johnson's scene with Pesci ("I had to put you into this thing or you would never let it happen.") and particularly the scenes after he's left prison.
I couldn’t agree more. Pesci was amazing and it is definitely my favorite film of his now. He is always playing the same guy in pretty much every movie he is in - Guy that can make you laugh and in the same moment rip your throat open. In this he gets so much space to just settle into his character. He is commanding and fearful but like you said so much of that is conveyed in his presence and the looks he gives. I just really loved everything about the movie because it feels like everyone just got as much room and screen time as they deserved
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,816
Movie was great, it actually kinda bummed me out that Pesci was retired for so long because holy shit he's still so damn good.

What could have been.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,465
Terana
that was really fucking good. pesci fucking killed it. they all did. even action bronson lol

it earned its length, especially that last 40 mins or so. perfect summation of the entire genre/reality of that crooked-ass game.
 
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Bora Horza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
51
I am halfway through watching and god damn does it feel good to be watching a sprawling gangster epic, especially one by Scorsese. I love the look on Pesci’s face when Keitel’s character is pulling Robert De Niro up about trying to bomb the laundry company 😂
 

NealMcCauley

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,205
Finished watching a few minutes ago and just started again. At home with my parents and my mom is fascinated by seeing Bob, Al, and Joe and on screen.

Thise last few scenes with stroke-Russ were painful to watch. Pesci had this Baby Yoda innocence and it was so sad seeing him like that.
 

newmoneytrash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,349
Melbourne, Australia
I think Bufalino definitely implies the mob is what got to President Kennedy. "If we can take down the president of the country then what's a union president?" or something along those lines.
Huh? No the implication is absolutely that the mob whacked Kennedy. How can you come away from a conversation where a guy says - "If we can whack a president we can whack a union leader"
to be fair i watch it on my phone in like half hour chunks so there *could* be a chance i might have missed some things
 

Freedonia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
121
I love this movie, I'm already rewatching it. I agree with the poster that called this the Unforgiven of the mafia genre
 

jcs

Member
Aug 7, 2018
1,951
Super late because I was too lazy to do the 2FA to log into for weeks (yeah) but I liked The Irishman... though it felt 45 mins too long. Should've...

wrapped up after Hoffa was killed. Also the subplot of him being a "bad" parent wasn't developed enough for anyone to care.

Also tons of unnecessary slow-mo over music.
 

SolidChamp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,574
Easily Pacino’s best performance since Insomnia.

This is one of the best films of the decade, for sure.
 

srsly?

Member
Feb 24, 2018
3,238
Scorsese's Limelight. While the filmmaker isn't so obnoxiously-shameless at the attempt as Chaplin--he doesn't paint the tears on his cheeks--like that of the silent legend's, this effort at self-consciously belting out a swan song also shrewdly-conceived as a paean to his own myth, drones on and on until it becomes, by turns, tedious, gratuitous, and rather discomfiting. Overlong by a plurality of the running time, The Irishman serves as something of an analog to a storied musical group's autumnal "Greatest Hits" album, with an overgenerous-heaping of all the old hits spun at half the speed, in a lower--and, consequently, less compelling--register.

Perhaps in mind of Leone's sprawling curtain call, Once Upon a Time in America--coincidentally, also starring Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci--Scorsese decelerates his trademark nervy pace down to a crawl, while pouring on the elegiac tone by the barrel. However, unlike the operatic Leone--and despite the impressive $160 million budget--the conception here seems pinched and insistently prosaic. Although Pacino's belated appearance in the film's second hour finally bestirs the torpid proceedings a bit, these surface ripples merely reflect the vibrancy of works past. Underneath, it's all still waters, running more thick than deep. This is a tired movie, in which the weariness of its declining and departing elderly characters contrives to be less responsible for this impression than the drop in artistic vigor. I can't recall a Scorsese picture so slack in invention--one scene after another plays out in simple two-shots--so undistinguished in staging, so nondescript in look (this must be the flattest mise en scène of Scorsese's career).

It doesn't help that the film is sabotaged out of the gate by its associations: not only can The Irishman not help but pale next to the director's better, more vital outings, verisimilitude--and, thusly, gravitas--is critically undermined by the reliance on digitally de-aged stars. This deleterious impact isn't as acutely felt with Pacino, whom is new to the Scorsese ouevre. But particularly with the legacy of Scorsese's earlier collaborations with them, I'm not at all sure how we are expected to respond favorably to DeNiro's and Pesci's thoroughly-unconvincing younger avatars. I'm flummoxed as to whether I should feel insulted or sorry for Scorsese and company, if this is the best they could manage.

For instance, DeNiro's Frank Sheeran is purported to have been a combat soldier in World War II. Whereas when we first meet him in the film's initial flashback as an (early? mid?) 1950s truck driver, I'll be damned if this droopy, hunched avatar doesn't already seem north of half a century. With Pesci, it's really difficult to get a handle on exactly how old his Russell Bufalino his meant to be in these early scenes, since he already looks geriatric and then doesn't prove to appear that much older when the film jumps ahead 20-odd years. The effect is not only disconcerting in itself in an "uncanny valley" sort of way, but since his aged stars cannot help but bring their septuagenarian energies and silhouettes to these avatars, the film is unable to bring off its pivotal juxtaposition: that between the swagger and gusto of youth, and the infirmity and resignation of old age. Without this contrast, the poignancy Scorsese shoots for at the film's denouement can't fail to fall well short of the mark.

In this respect, The Irishman is doomed by the filmmaker's wishful aspiration to exploit this project as the handsome, hefty bow with which to tie up his illustrious career. If only Scorsese had had the better judgment to instead go with younger actors he could convincingly ripen with more dependable methods, and forego a little of the tidy theatrics of casting DeNiro and Pesci, he might have pulled off this stirring "final bow". As it is, as with Chaplin, this self-conscious straining for a dramatic exit ultimately comes off more ponderous than affecting.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,143
Incredible movie, especially the second act with Al Pacino as Hoffa. Maybe better than Goodfellas, better than Casino.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,798
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but "bestirs the torpid proceedings"?

Did you do this for someone else and then post it here?
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,790
I think the third hour massively elevates the film from "Goodfellas/Casino III", previously it was very enjoyable and extremely well acted without being particularly new material. But the solemn final hour really hit the mark and makes the rest of the film better in hindsight.

We can blabber about the digital effects all day, and no, De Niro's were rarely quite right (I think what hits it is he moves like an old man, even when he's only meant to be in his 40s), but I will say that other than the very first scene of him, the effects on Pesci were flawless. He just looks like 90s Joe Pesci again. Pacino too, very strong work. I don't know why it wasn't as effective with De Niro, but in any case, you forget about it within a half hour anyway. Oddly enough the one that was jarring was the sudden switch from little girl to Anna Paquin, who is almost 40, when I assume the character was meant to be about 19/20 in that first scene after the switch.
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,477
My boy Pesci deserves another Academy award nomination, the scenes in hospital towards the end were so amazing. Was made for the role and killed it.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,019
Just finished.

Fantastic. Definitely in the higher echelon of Scorcese films, and that's saying a lot.

I love where the third act goes, as that's not something he typically explores in his films.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,790
It was alright. Kind of felt like The main character could have shown some remorse or come to a bad end. Though I guess his end is akin to Pachinos Godfather?

it was alright
I can't think of a worse end not involving torture than being a crippled and cancer ridden widower whose only family despises him, everyone he ever worked for or with is dead, his sole life's "accomplishments" are completely forgotten already, and he's spending his last days having to arrange his own funeral because no one else will.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,790
I thought Pacino was great in this, and I have to credit Pacino for doing a pretty good Great Lakes type accent throughout the film. That said, there are some amazing scenes with Pesci where he literally doesn't have a single line but communicates so many things just using his face. I'm mainly thinking of the meeting with Angelo (Harvey Keitel) that happens when De Niro is caught about to blow up the laundry service in Delaware. I think of the main three De Niro's performance was the least interesting, but he also had most of the deaging CGI scenes so that should be taken into account. He's still got some amazing scenes, like the Howard Johnson's scene with Pesci ("I had to put you into this thing or you would never let it happen.") and particularly the scenes after he's left prison.
I did like that De Niro delivered his voiceover as sometimes stumbling over his words or saying the wrong thing as it's meant to be the elderly Sheeran saying it, not a thing you normally see in film narrations that are usually smooth and detached.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,143
I thought it was pretty good but nothing compared to those two movies.
Goodfellas and Casinos might be more thoroughly enjoyable since this one is slow in the third act, and I understand liking them more, but I only just watched those two movies for the first time in the last month. Not saying you’re necessarily biased if you’ve known those movies for a long time but I do feel like that makes me feel a little less biased towards them. There’s just so much to this one and it all feels legit. It’s an epic.
 
Apr 19, 2018
1,494
The dialogue exchange with everyone being named Tony made me chuckle. A few years back I was meeting a friend at a restaurant here in Howard Beach NY called Lenny's, a predominantly Italian joint. I called out 'Tony!' when he walked in and four guys all looked up toward me. :P

More than the de-aging tech, I couldn't get over De Niro having blue eyes. It just looked..... wrong. o_O;
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,250
Was I wrong or in the end did DeNiro hint that he tried to call Hoffa and he didn't pick up?
That's what I thought as well. He says "What kind of man makes a phone call like that?" and when asked to elaborate, doesn't. While it could be referring to the call he had with Jo, I feel like he tried to call or did call Jimmy.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,111
Was I wrong or in the end did DeNiro hint that he tried to call Hoffa and he didn't pick up?
That's what I thought as well. He says "What kind of man makes a phone call like that?" and when asked to elaborate, doesn't. While it could be referring to the call he had with Jo, I feel like he tried to call or did call Jimmy.
No. He was referring to when he called Jo (Hoffa's wife) after the hit.