The Irishman |OT| The Goodfellas are Back in Town (Open Spoilers )

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
That's all well and good, I'm just talking about the number of people referenced in the film that got killed that way during that time period. That's not exactly something that can be fabricated.
The background history was mostly fact based and not contested. The book's account of Sheehan killing Hoffa is. Apparently he's one of 14 people to claim responsibility.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
Saw this in Sheeran's wiki about the murder. It definitely lends some credibility to his story.

Two sets of blood remnants were found in the front hall and middle hallway of the Detroit house where Sheeran claimed the murder happened.[25] One stain at the bottom of the stairs was fresh enough to extract DNA from and was found not to be Hoffa's blood. A blood trail from the vestibule, where Sheeran says he shot Hoffa, down the middle hallway was consistent with Sheeran's confession but proved to be too old and degraded to extract DNA from. The trail leads to the kitchen where, in 1975, there had been a door leading to the outside, consistent with Sheeran's confession that the "cleaners" would have taken the body directly out of the back of the house so no one could see the removal from the street.[citation needed]

The blood pattern added weight to the claim that someone had been killed at the home and the body had been dragged down the hallway as Sheeran had said. The house was located only minutes from the restaurant parking lot where Hoffa was last seen but no evidence yet exists that links Hoffa to the house. Out of the 28 spots of blood found in the home only 2 of the spots tested positive for DNA. Considering where Sheeran confessed he killed Hoffa and that almost 30 years had elapsed by the time a forensics team entered the home, it is not likely traces of Hoffa's DNA would have been found.[citation needed]

The FBI continues its attempts to connect Sheeran to the murder, retesting the blood and floorboards with latest advancements in forensics. In Riddle, a documentary about the Hoffa disappearance that was broadcast on November 27, 2018 on FOX,[26][27] the FBI replied "No comment" when asked about their latest tests.[28][29][30]
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,035
Why?
It's a book based on one really unreliable source, and I don't think there was ever a serious attempt to fact check it by the writer or publisher.

There are way more serious attempts to cover Bufalino, Hoffa et al I think.
Saw this in Sheeran's wiki about the murder. It definitely lends some credibility to his story.
Yeah, his claims were corroborated after he made them by investigating the Detroit house, in 2004. Other people claimed to have killed Hoffa but Sheeran was the only one of the FBI's suspects who came forward and talked about it, and he was considered a prime suspect when it happened. Sheeran's version of what happened to Hoffa just makes sense too. The FBI said Sheeran was "known to be in Detroit area at the time of JRH disappearance, and considered to be a close friend of JRH." We know Hoffa got in that car. Hoffa's son said Hoffa would only have gotten in that car with Frank and not the other suspects on the list. His daughter begged Sheeran to come forward about it in 1995. Sheeran perfectly descried the driving directions from the restaurant to the house, and the interior of the house. It makes sense he was killed in some random house. Blood was found in 2004 under the press-on vinyl floor that had been installed in the 80s and the blood pattern matched with Sheeran's story. It makes sense Hoffa was taken to an incinerator just a few minutes away where there would have been no trace of him, nothing grand or more attention grabbing like buried in cement or anything.

I was extremely skeptical at first but after looking into it I’m convinced Sheeran killed Hoffa like he said.
 
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Darkwing-Buck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,167
Los Angeles, CA
I know the film was Hoffa-centric, but man the stuff that went down in the late 70's-80's centered around Harvey Keital's character sound insane . I noticed a lot of the mob dudes that had their fates laid out died during this period.


 

Hadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
159
I'm watching it again and realize that Domenick Lombardozzi aka Herc from the Wire is Fat Tony Salerno. That's a lot of makeup.
 

LordDraven

Member
Jan 23, 2019
1,341
I am halfway through watching and god damn does it feel good to be watching a sprawling gangster epic, especially one by Scorsese. I love the look on Pesci’s face when Keitel’s character is pulling Robert De Niro up about trying to bomb the laundry company 😂
What do you think Pesci was trying to say with the way he looked at deniro? I’m honestly curious.
 

LordDraven

Member
Jan 23, 2019
1,341
On the bolded - I did wonder what the film was saying on the subject. It certainly felt like the unions were shown as just another root of corruption run by mobsters and/or narcissists for their own personal benefit. On the other hand the film is saying this is true for all of America, including the president. Hoffa and the work he does at least gets acknowledged as being for the greater good, his dealings with the mob are justified as the bitter pill he must swallow to operate in this world. I think in some ways really, the film is suggesting the death of Hoffa was the death of organised labour as a real force in the US, which is presented to be a tragedy.

On a different note - I thought Scorsese overdid his use of slomow here (and Silence imo) but it did produce this shot which is one of the more striking images in the film:
Why is it striking? Because of all the white hands on the black mans hands?
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,426
Felt like I watched this for two hours but only 1 hour had passed. Will watch the rest tomorrow. It's slow but I'm enjoying the story and background history. Joe Pesci is still really amazing to watch, so subtle.
 

Vyse24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
743
Saw the movie with my mom last night. I thought it was good. My mom wasn't a fan of it. Said it suffered from too many unneeded characters.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
just watched it, i liked, i think americans will love the filme because there's historical figures of the country there, so it more fun to see the plot tie to the history of their country. I had already seen that theme of the gangster that gets alone in the end before so thats nothing new, but its a well done movie. I think there's one plot hole or its not well explained, in the end he's alone, but that isnt how it works, he seemed to be high in the hierarchy, people wouldnt leave him there to die, the police tells him everyone died, but its clear by joe pesci that the mob is big with the higher ups related to the kennedy murder, so that plot point sounds weird that a powerfull mob like that everyone died and a man with that position he has is leaved to die alone.
but well, the ending works either way.
cool.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,756
just watched it, i liked, i think americans will love the filme because there's historical figures of the country there, so it more fun to see the plot tie to the history of their country. I had already seen that theme of the gangster that gets alone in the end before so thats nothing new, but its a well done movie. I think there's one plot hole or its not well explained, in the end he's alone, but that isnt how it works, he seemed to be high in the hierarchy, people wouldnt leave him there to die, the police tells him everyone died, but its clear by joe pesci that the mob is big with the higher ups related to the kennedy murder, so that plot point sounds weird that a powerfull mob like that everyone died and a man with that position he has is leaved to die alone.
but well, the ending works either way.
cool.
He wasn't that high up, he was just a hitman as far as the mob went. Once he'd gone to jail, any of his trade union power went with it.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,990
He wasn't that high up, he was just a hitman as far as the mob went. Once he'd gone to jail, any of his trade union power went with it.
ok, but only by what the movie shows its not well explained, the movie even sugests otherwise with the ring scene saying he's important now and the talks after saying they are "bosses".
 

Ferdie

Member
Jul 16, 2018
623
What a fantastic movie. The main trio killed it.

It's probably the longest film I've ever seen but the pacing was great. I only had one break :)
 

ToddBonzalez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,062
The scene at the end where Frank shows the nurse his photo of Jimmy Hoffa and she has no idea who he is really hit me. For better or worse the closest thing Frank has to a legacy was his role in killing of his friend, and even the impact of that has totally faded with time.
 

Juryvicious

Member
Oct 28, 2017
808
Simply incredible. There were so many little nuanced scenes that really hit me hard, the acting was great.

I wish this was a mini series it was so good and captivating. The time absolutely flew by and I will definitely re-watch this again soon.
 

Flousn

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,251
Really enjoyed the movie, but tbf, I found the fate of Frank not "that" sad. Of course, the film frames him that way but he is still living a rather comfortable life. His family might be estranged, his friends are dead and he is physically unwell - but that is also the situation of many non-criminals in his age. Also, he surely has a legacy in "his" world, I mean the whole idea is that civilians are not supposed to know about it. He surely is remembered by more people in the underworld than I will be by the general public when I go ;)
His children are also all still alive and well.
So yeah...the more I think about the Film, the more I think that Frank got a rather good ending in relation to the negative karma he must have built over the years.
 

Agar25

Member
Apr 12, 2018
5,484
Well, I loved it. It's fucking LONG, yet I was glued. Pesci is still a force, it was Pacino who seemed weak here. I just never bought him as Hoffa, I just saw Al Pacino. De Niro is wonderful as usual. I love how much of a reserved and stuttering individual Frank is, someone who finds it hard to show his feelings even among his friends and family. He got what he deserved in the end, to be left all alone.

I do agree that the de-age tech was more a distraction than anything. You can de-age all these old farts all you like, but they still move like old men. Still, this is the perfect capstone on Scorcese mob crime drama.
Def ban worthy right here, Pacino more than pulled his weight. Also, I’d take a violent early end vs. dying alone and isolated with no one around to love you like Frank did
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,776
This was great work from Pacino. I loved how everyone kept giving him ways out of his situations but he wouldn't budge.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,492
This didn’t do much for me at all. One of Scorsese’s weaker efforts in my opinion. I didn’t care about anything that was happening until his friendship with Hoffa developed and gets resolved. I forced myself to finish this
 
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Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,037
Why is it striking? Because of all the white hands on the black mans hands?
I think it captures two of America’s biggest issues, racism and gun violence. I don’t think the film really addresses the former much but the image out of context encapsulates both those points. It also I think works as a reference to Taxi Driver and the association of that film with attempted political assassination.
 

KillingJoke

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
863
Good movie but honestly don't think i would watch it again. I didn't find the story that interesting compared to Casino or Goodfellas. And the amount of dark humor was a bit on the low side.

All 3 did a great job but Pacino was the highlight.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,776
In some ways it feels like someone apprehended the fun-loving characters in other gangster flicks and made them do an apology film where no one enjoys anything.
 

Boogs31

Member
Oct 28, 2017
762
Ohio
I loved it. Pesci was the star of the show. I loved seeing the perspective of Peggy and how she came to understand what her father did. I found it gripping for the entire 210 minutes.

The one scene that I didn’t particularly care for and noticed DeNiro’s age was the scene where he beats up the guy that pushed his daughter. The shot looked good up through the point where the guy crashes through the glass, but when Frank actually starts kicking him/stepping on his hand it looked straight-up bad. Most of the scenes involving violence/shootings were great, which is why that scene felt so out of place.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,739
man, this movie drags hard at moments, i mean it's nice to let a scene breathe and all, but damn.

pesci and pacino really carry the movie, deniro is great but he's the straight man here, the other two are just tearing through the whole fucking movie.

that said, the de-aging in this is super distracting, sometimes it looks fine, other times it yanked me right out, and made me wonder what the fuck was going on with deniro's face, some of the scenes his eyes are so overly blue it just looked ridiculous.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,492
Pretty much the only thing I liked in this movie was Pacino as Hoffa and the tension that builds prior to his killing. Didn’t care about anything else. And would probably never watch again. Slog of a movie. I’m just so over these actors in gangster movies.
 

True Savior

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,856
wasteland
ok, but only by what the movie shows its not well explained, the movie even sugests otherwise with the ring scene saying he's important now and the talks after saying they are "bosses".
That only represented his close friendship with Bufalino. He was kind of a nobody in the grand scheme of things. A simple loyal goon who followed orders, close to both Hoffa and Bufalino.
 

Razorskin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,008
DeNiro was really showing his age when he was beating up the grocery store clerk. Looked stiff and weak
 

TP-DK

Member
Oct 28, 2017
747
Denmark
DeNiro was really showing his age when he was beating up the grocery store clerk. Looked stiff and weak
I dont understand why they didnt use a younger actor to do that scene. He looked like a mummy there.

There was also a glaring editing issue when Frank was on the phone with Jo after he killed Hoffa.

But flaws aside I thought it was a great movie. Amazing to see Pesci again.
 

ryan299

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,274
just finished it. Wasn‘t really a fan. Feel likes theres a tighter movie about this story that could be told. It’s weird because at it’s length this movie feels like it rushes through a lot.

The cast is great in this. Pesci is easily the best thing about this movie. Just an amazing performance.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,776
What's funny is that they had an actor playing a young Tommy in Goodfellas, and Jimmy introduces him to Henry as a younger man.

In this film, Russell meets Frank and calls him a kid.

Robert DeNiro must have some sort of clause that he has to play his character in every scene.
 
OP
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Naijaboy

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
3,111
First of all, this movie has such a wonderful cast at its side. Incredible that Scorsese managed to get so many alumni together for one more acting showcase. All did great, but the big three were the obvious highlights.

Second of all, I ft the movie length dragged the movie to rank it below Goodfella and even The Departed with its awful final act. It's still a great film.
 

Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,502
Story question: Is it implied that Russel killed Angelino when he comes home? Im trying to find that scene again but not sure when it happens


Joe Pesci has to be up for an Oscar Nom, no?
 

Valiant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,616
Story question: Is it implied that Russel killed Angelino when he comes home? Im trying to find that scene again but not sure when it happens


Joe Pesci has to be up for an Oscar Nom, no?
No. Angelino is seen at the award ceremony.

Also they tell you his death when you first see him. I believe it was a shotgun to the head.
 

woman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,676
Atlanta
The movie is fairly average isn’t it? Well acted and directed, but at the end of the day it’s just another gangster/mafia crime film. It just wasn’t very engaging.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
450
De Niro, Pacino, Pesci, all overshadowed by Action Bronson's big screen debut