Omg I thought that looked strange too. The scene was clearly meant to depict a savage and violent beat down ("my fucking hand!!") but DeNiro was kinda just lightly kicking and gently stepping on the dude ddd
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The Irishman |OT| The Goodfellas are Back in Town (Open Spoilers )
- Thread starter Naijaboy
- Start date
The actors' age was the biggest issue in Goodfellas too. Not a big issue, but Tommy definitely didn't seem to be Henry's age at all, he seemed to be more of a peer to Jimmy.
Just killed someone. It's relevant to his wife because that's who Frank is describing in that scene. It's to show that she's a real one and is on the down low about Russell and what he does. She'll always have his back.
Finished it tonight. I found it fascinating and the performances were all stellar. It shot up to the top of my list of best films of the year. Marty still has it!
The latter, I don't think he was supposed to be breaking the fourth wall, just looking past Pesci's character and taking in the weight of what he's feeling and what he's about to do.
It was great. Definitely my favorite Scorsese's film this century, just the fact that De Niro and Pacino acted their asses off and didn't simply relied on the bag of character ticks they've been using in almost every movie for well over a decade now makes it special.
De Niro is my frontrunner for an Oscar now, that phone call to Hoffa's wife sealed it. As much as DiCprio and Phoenix were great this year, I think Sheeran is a harder character to pull of.
De Niro is my frontrunner for an Oscar now, that phone call to Hoffa's wife sealed it. As much as DiCprio and Phoenix were great this year, I think Sheeran is a harder character to pull of.
I agree, but it was also a mostly true story which makes his life story pretty batshit crazy. Not sure the time jumping helped it. Movie could have been 2 hours in chronological order with the suspense building up to murder.
Also agree that Goodfellas is so much better than this.
The very ending to me read that Frank wanted the door left open because he wanted his daughter (Anna Paquin) to walk in. That talk with his other daughter where he's desperately trying to make amends "is there anything I can do?" was so sad.
The saddest part though for me was definitely seeing Pesci's last two scenes in prison.
Yeah Hoffa really trusted Frank which is what made it harder. Another thing to note is that Frank was definitely hesitating a lot when they went into the house, he let Hoffa read the situation but still never considered Frank would do it which made it even more hard to watch and made it harder for Frank to do it until Hoffa is almost out the door.
It was definitely a sign that Frank was left behind by everyone and left with nothing to show for it all.
The saddest part though for me was definitely seeing Pesci's last two scenes in prison.
Yeah Hoffa really trusted Frank which is what made it harder. Another thing to note is that Frank was definitely hesitating a lot when they went into the house, he let Hoffa read the situation but still never considered Frank would do it which made it even more hard to watch and made it harder for Frank to do it until Hoffa is almost out the door.
It was definitely a sign that Frank was left behind by everyone and left with nothing to show for it all.
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I never really liked the mob genre. I liked various mob films because they're well made stories, Irishman included, but the nature of the medium is that it frames the mob desirably and I don't buy into that. That's why even the best of the genre, which are lauded as some of the best films ever made like Godfather Parts 1 and 2 don't have the same punch for me. Whereas others see Michael Corleone some deep character study or fall from grace, all I see is assholes who delude themselves that their business of mundane murder is anything more than that. There is good storytelling in them, but it's storytelling inservice of a myth that falls apart under very minor scrutiny in my eyes, but somehow enthralls everyone else. I can't buy into the fantasy of the mob.
And this applies here too. The Irishman, Frank? He's just a low key sociopath. Like, he's not the unstable, Joffrey sort that revels in pain, but he's the type that simply doesn't care, and he this is most demonstrated in the end, where the priest is trying to ask him if he regrets anything, and he seems outright confused by the concept. He doesn't like how some things turned out, but he doesn't have any kind of emotional aversion to them that we typically associate with regret, but it's also present in how he talks with curiosity, but without empathy, when he was told to murder prisoners of war.
And that also clearly goes for his 'good friend' Jimmy Hoffa too. What did he murder Jimmy for, when it's all said and done? Nothing, really. Jimmy wasn't hurting him in any way, and if there really was no choice, Frank could have passed the job onto someone else so he didn't have to be the one to murder his friend. Jimmy had to die because the mafia was having problems with his union and he refused to let go out of stubbornness and....and that's it. Jimmy died for petty, stupid reasons. And how did he die? With two shots to the back of his head, like anyone else, without remorse or emotion.
And your all telling me it's sad that Frank doesn't get to have a good relationship with his daughter? No, it's not. It's good. If you step back and look at what kind of character and what kind of father Frank had been to his daughters and empathize with the kind of upbringing they had, if you were to read this story in a new article, "Elderly mob hitman feels sad he can't have a normal relationship with his daughter", you wouldn't think "Wow, that's so sad, he's just trying to be a good dad." But like every mob movie ever, it puts the framing of these cold murderers as the front and center, while their family members are just in the periphery.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to have a go at anyone over feeling sympathy for Frank. It's a movie, it's art, you feel what you want to feel. I'm just expressing my frustration with the broader genre and why I can't connect with it in general nor this movie in specific. I still like the movie, the pacing is tight for how long it is, it's entertaining to watch these actors, it's well shot, etc, etc, but emotionally, for me to feel empathy for these characters, I have to buy into their worldview, and I haven't watched a mob movie that has succeeded in getting me to do that.
For me, Frank's ending is neither sad nor happy. It's not sad because fuck Frank. But it's not happy because there's no actual good that comes out of seeing Frank miserable either. I don't really care about his daughters because the film doesn't bother developing their characters beyond just being one of the few non-mob people cares about without actually giving them any personality or motivation or presence except as an extension of Frank. So I just end up feeling a whole lot of nothing. The craft is good, the storytelling well told, but as with most mob movies, I don't care about any of these people.
And this applies here too. The Irishman, Frank? He's just a low key sociopath. Like, he's not the unstable, Joffrey sort that revels in pain, but he's the type that simply doesn't care, and he this is most demonstrated in the end, where the priest is trying to ask him if he regrets anything, and he seems outright confused by the concept. He doesn't like how some things turned out, but he doesn't have any kind of emotional aversion to them that we typically associate with regret, but it's also present in how he talks with curiosity, but without empathy, when he was told to murder prisoners of war.
And that also clearly goes for his 'good friend' Jimmy Hoffa too. What did he murder Jimmy for, when it's all said and done? Nothing, really. Jimmy wasn't hurting him in any way, and if there really was no choice, Frank could have passed the job onto someone else so he didn't have to be the one to murder his friend. Jimmy had to die because the mafia was having problems with his union and he refused to let go out of stubbornness and....and that's it. Jimmy died for petty, stupid reasons. And how did he die? With two shots to the back of his head, like anyone else, without remorse or emotion.
And your all telling me it's sad that Frank doesn't get to have a good relationship with his daughter? No, it's not. It's good. If you step back and look at what kind of character and what kind of father Frank had been to his daughters and empathize with the kind of upbringing they had, if you were to read this story in a new article, "Elderly mob hitman feels sad he can't have a normal relationship with his daughter", you wouldn't think "Wow, that's so sad, he's just trying to be a good dad." But like every mob movie ever, it puts the framing of these cold murderers as the front and center, while their family members are just in the periphery.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to have a go at anyone over feeling sympathy for Frank. It's a movie, it's art, you feel what you want to feel. I'm just expressing my frustration with the broader genre and why I can't connect with it in general nor this movie in specific. I still like the movie, the pacing is tight for how long it is, it's entertaining to watch these actors, it's well shot, etc, etc, but emotionally, for me to feel empathy for these characters, I have to buy into their worldview, and I haven't watched a mob movie that has succeeded in getting me to do that.
For me, Frank's ending is neither sad nor happy. It's not sad because fuck Frank. But it's not happy because there's no actual good that comes out of seeing Frank miserable either. I don't really care about his daughters because the film doesn't bother developing their characters beyond just being one of the few non-mob people cares about without actually giving them any personality or motivation or presence except as an extension of Frank. So I just end up feeling a whole lot of nothing. The craft is good, the storytelling well told, but as with most mob movies, I don't care about any of these people.
Just need to step in and point out that Russ (Joe Pesci's character) made it very clear that Frank would have been taken out too if he hadn't been with him on the way to Detroit. If Frank had turned down the hit, he would haven been signing his (and most likely his wife's) death warrant.
Now I will say I agree with you about your point about generally not enjoying mob/organized crime films because they glorify mob activity, it's pretty clear most people got the wrong message from Scarface even though Tony ends up riddled with bullet holes in a pool of his own blood at the end. My issue with the take on this particular movie is that Scorsese went out of his way to de-glamorize it and show just how sad and pathetic everyone ended up if they didn't end up dead early from hits. Like it seemed like people taking away the wrong message from Goodfellas bothered him deeply, so he made this film to really nail home the point "No, there's nothing about this life that's exciting and fun", it's pretty clear from the rest of the movie that unless you're a made man, being in the Italian Mafia is a pretty pathetic way of life. I don't think we were supposed to feel sorry for Frank in the way Scorsese meant for us to "feel" sorry for him, we're supposed to see why he ended up in the isolating and lonely situation he put himself at the end of his life because of the choices he made as a younger man.
So I think the most surreal thing about The Irishman is seeing Joe Pesci playing the calm, level-headed mob boss.
Everyone must have noticed the Taxi Driver nod near the end of the movie, when he was in the carwash.
Took a photo with my phone because all my devices seem to block images of Netflix!
Took a photo with my phone because all my devices seem to block images of Netflix!
Yes! This is what I love the most about The Irishman. Compared to most mob movies the entire lifestyle was portrayed relatively unpleasantly in The Irishman. Frank's various houses were all quite modest and there wasn't much serious partying (sex, drugs, rock and roll) that I can recall at all. The hits on Whispers and Jimmy were so fast and devoid of any action that would make them feel "cool". The only hit that was somewhat indulgent to violence was Tony Jack -- but that death fit the victim.
Saw the image before reading the post and thought it was some Captain America helmet photoshopped on him as commentary on superhero movies lol.Everyone must have noticed the Taxi Driver nod near the end of the movie, when he was in the carwash.
Took a photo with my phone because all my devices seem to block images of Netflix!
Feels kinda joyless thus far (about 30 minutes in). Is there a point to this?
Also De Niro looks his age in any scene he's in. Which would be great if this was Bubba Ho-Tep, but it ain't, and it's kinda jarring.
Also De Niro looks his age in any scene he's in. Which would be great if this was Bubba Ho-Tep, but it ain't, and it's kinda jarring.
It was good but not particularly great. There were good moments buried in there but it feels like none of them really stood out. It would have made a lot more sense to split it into a pair of normal length films to better handle some of the chronological jumps and reduce exhaustion on the part of the viewers.
This movie belonged in a theater with people forced to settle in and watch for the full four hours with no distractions if they wanted to see it.
This movie just seemed like Scorsese bragging to everyone that he knows who killed Jimmy Hoffa and explaining why for 3 1/2 hours.
I believe Frank Sheeran also wrote that he delivered three guns in Dallas that were used to kill Kennedy (not everyone belives this is true). If the movie is from his POV, of course they would imply that the mob killed JFK.
It's based off a book. That said, he nailed the setting.
Fair play that is the one bit that really stands out in a bad way and he's entitled to his opinion but writing the film off as "the same old everything" after 20 minutes of a 3.5hr movie is ridiculous.
The only time limmy is 100% serious is independence and hating Tories tbf.
Ah. Seeing some posts on here I wasn't sure!
Old Man DeNiro for Mortal Kombat 11 DLC.
"A new Challenger approaches!!
The Irishman
paints the House"
"A new Challenger approaches!!
The Irishman
paints the House"
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Have to say I really enjoyed this. Kept me in it the whole way through while in most other Scorcese movies I've watched I've felt like they're split into one really good / great half and one not so good half. Even on my phone I could tell the CGI wasn't great but still thoroughly enjoyable. If I had to pick someone out I'd have to say I felt Pacino was just a little ahead of the rest.
I don't think people would have had drastically different opinion of the movie had they watched it in theater instead of at home. I don't think it's that kind of movie.
p.s.
Needing to pee is a distraction.
I'm pretty sure he's dead serious about Churchill though.Yep he's a complete prankster on twitter.
He's also right.
Finally got around to it today and absolutely LOVED it.
Deniro, Pacino and Pesci are such masters of their craft it's just a pleasure to watch them.
De-aging bothered me a bit but not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the film in the slightest.
Biggest compliment I could give it is that it "felt" shorter than most ~2 hour modern films
Deniro, Pacino and Pesci are such masters of their craft it's just a pleasure to watch them.
De-aging bothered me a bit but not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the film in the slightest.
Biggest compliment I could give it is that it "felt" shorter than most ~2 hour modern films
I completely agree with your sentiment. However, in the case of this film I think it does a fantastic job of making you want to be disgusted by it as opposed to entertained by the behavior. I think the performances are very restrained to fit the more somber tone of this film.
