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The Jedi/Sith are boring.

Masoyama

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
I really wish the movies got the hidden battle going on right. The sword play is just the external representation of the battle, both opponents are constantly setting up traps and defenses using the force waiting for one side to slip up. Setting up mind control shields, constaly trying to push and pull the opponent, using the force to micro adjust the blade in motion, etc. Only two examples I can really think of are the terrible use of pantomime in ROTS and Luke punking on Kylo at the end of TLJ.

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OP
OP
DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
Principate said:
Nah they're intrinsically boring. We've had a few movies with minimal to no light saber battles. There's nothing novel about it anymore.

Lightsabers are literally the only thing that sets Star Wars apart from other sci-fi fair. Everything else as been done to death. That's why it stuck around.
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I'm not getting your point. Light Sabers are boring by default, which is why they've stuck around?

Light sabers are boring, because they've been the solution to every Jedi battle. In fact, every movie there's a natural segregation where the blaster guys take on the mooks, the space guys fly around, and the Jedi fight each other. There's no variety. THAT"S why the Saber battles are boring - you know they're inevitable before the movie starts.
 
Rendering...

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
I'd say the Jedi are boring, but only because of Lucas's insistence on painting them as goodie goodies with transparently obvious flaws in their judgment and the rigid tenets of their order.

Luckily, this may be rectified by the sequels, if Rise of Skywalker stays on-message about moral gray areas, and the Force not being simplistically subdivided into Dark vs Light, but more or less polarized by the values of its wielder.

The only time lightsabers were ever boring was in the prequel trilogy, where they're waved around like glowsticks, sometimes by large crowds. The OT, the sequels, and Rogue One all handle them well.
 
kittens

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
I just find the good/bad dichotomy to be bland as hell. It doesn't tell an interesting story at all.
 
Browser

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
2,031
I find them boring too but for other reasons, the whole good vs evil thing.

TLJ had an oportunity to really break away from that. Lets get rid of this ideia of balanca, and ultimate good and ultimate evil. The prequel trilogy showed that jedi unchecked is bad as well, they were this organization that oversaw the republic and could take them out if not happy. So the ideia would be to do away with these groups altogether and have a The witcher situation of sorts; force sensitive people work on being one with the force and focus on an specific part of the force they like, lightsabers, premonition, force powers, projection, etc. and have no moral obligation with ulitimate good or evil. Just their own morality guiding them.

TLJ was horrible in setting this up, and I doubt abrams will go this way as well.
 
Principate

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm not getting your point. Light Sabers are boring by default, which is why they've stuck around?

Light sabers are boring, because they've been the solution to every Jedi battle. In fact, every movie there's a natural segregation where the blaster guys take on the mooks, the space guys fly around, and the Jedi fight each other. There's no variety. THAT"S why the Saber battles are boring - you know they're inevitable before the movie starts.
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There wasn't even a lightsaber battle in the last major star wars movie. Your arguing about a problem that barely even exists. Disney has made a conscious effort to move away from light saber battles in the new movies in general so your complaints ring hollow.

If you said this after the prequels I'd understand but your not. There's nothing novel about what your suggesting and Disney has made several strides to this towards this.
 
BarringGaffner

BarringGaffner

Member
Nov 11, 2017
2,249
In my mind the prequels (and all the animated series with them) don't exist or are just an alternate story. Ta da, the jedi are interesting again.
 
Gustaf

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
DeaconKnowledge said:
Those things are boring because they're useless against Jedi.

Remember RotS? An entire huge space battle and two Jedi cut their way through it like a knife through butter and demolish everything in sight with minimal effort. Blasters are no threat to Jedi - put a Jedi in a room of 100 guys with blasters. Who wins? Nobody will say the 100 guys.
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ahahahahahha

oh wait you are serious?

if this was true, the order 66 wouln't be succesful at all
 
ConanEd

ConanEd

Alt account
Banned
Dec 27, 2018
1,033
Not only that, the laser sword thing is super boring. IMO "lightsabers" are dumber than "zombie" scientific speeking. How come fucking laser swords can physically block each other? Makes no sense. And it's only 3 feet long? Why? Why not 20 feet? That's why the Chinese don't give a shit about Star Wars, because the SW lore makes no sense.

The only great part of SW is the medieval scifi setting, but the prequels did away all of faux medieval stuff.
 
genjiZERO

genjiZERO

Banned
Jan 27, 2019
835
Richmond
Jhey Cyphre said:
Everyone made that mistake. The EU went nuts with the lightsabers as well. It was just something cool from the OT that got blown way out of proportion.
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This biggest problem was turning what was clearly an arcane religious order into an arm of the government. It took all the mystery out of the Jedi. I don't mind them being OP and the use of lightsabers, but it should be something special
 
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
DeaconKnowledge said:
Those things are boring because they're useless against Jedi.

Remember RotS? An entire huge space battle and two Jedi cut their way through it like a knife through butter and demolish everything in sight with minimal effort. Blasters are no threat to Jedi - put a Jedi in a room of 100 guys with blasters. Who wins? Nobody will say the 100 guys.
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.... d... did.... did you not watch the second half of Revenge of the Sith???
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Man the PT had so much goddamn potential. Even enough to best the OT.

What a waste. At least we have the memes
 
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Star Falcon

Star Falcon

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
98
One of the reasons i enjoyed Rogue One so much was the de-emphasis on Jedi/Sith. I know we still had Chirruts "the force is one with me" throughout, but the focus on more human characters and the technology is much more interesting to me than midicholorian plot armour shenanigans!
 
Chikor

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I think the Jedi are generally bad, but for different reasons than the OP. I find the whole "emotions are bad" to be both silly as all fuck and also make for shitty characters and bad stories. While the development of that whole "philosophy" was done in large parts in the prequels, I think that stuff exists in the original trilogy and hurt it quite a bit.
I know I'm in the minority here.

The jedi powers were always a magical way to get you out of a corner you wrote yourself into, ever since the first movie, but I am not all that much bothered by it in films like Star Wars, it could've done better in some places, but whatever, space wizards with laser swords.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,163
Jedi and Sith are boring and so limiting. It would be better to reimainge them both as 2 cults and the force is just something certain life forms can use
 
Xiaomi

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
Not every Jedi is Skywalker- or Obi-Wan-level. We don't see the ones who aren't for very long because they ded.
 
Principate

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Surfinn said:
Man the PT had so much goddamn potential. Even enough to best the OT.

What a waste. At least we have the memes
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Yeah conceptually it is was very interesting, even with there inclusion of the hated politics. Exploring the fall of a flawed religious warrior cult due to it's involvement in the machinations of political intrigue and war is a solid base for an engaging plot structure. sadly the execution squandered all of that.
 
Mars People

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,197
Yoda and the Emperor should never of wielded a Lightsaber.

Yoda because he is so far beyond it in terms of raw power and a sword hardly suits his body shape.
And The Emperor actively sneers at lightsabers in Return of the Jedi. He sarcastically calls it 'A Jedi weapon...', making him using one in the prequels frankly absurd.
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Principate said:
Yeah conceptually it is was very interesting, even with there inclusion of the hated politics. Exploring the fall of a flawed religious warrior cult due to it's involvement in the machinations of political intrigue and war is a solid base for an engaging plot structure. sadly the execution squandered all of that.
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Yup. And the playoff/emotional resonance of Anakin's fall
 
OP
OP
DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
Sephzilla said:
But you just said a Jedi in a room with a 100 people with blasters should still be able to win.

How come a couple of intentionally nerfed Boba Fetts are able to take one down?
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Because they were shot in the back! The Jedi fought alongside the clones for years, built up trust and relationships with them. No Jedi saw it coming and the only ones to survive a direct attack were Yoda and Obi Wan.

Yes, you are right, blasters took out Jedi. So we know the best way to take out a Jedi is to befriend them and fight alongside them for years only to unexpectedly (to everyone, including yourself) shoot them in the back.
 
Gustaf

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
DeaconKnowledge said:
Because they were shot in the back! The Jedi fought alongside the clones for years, built up trust and relationships with them. No Jedi saw it coming and the only ones to survive a direct attack were Yoda and Obi Wan.

Yes, you are right, blasters took out Jedi. So we know the best way to take out a Jedi is to befriend them and fight alongside them for years only to unexpectedly (to everyone, including yourself) shoot them in the back.
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not everyone was shot in the back tho, some even killed some clones before getting blasted
 
Sobriquet

Sobriquet

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,895
Wilmington, NC
RedVejigante said:
I will admit that I was always bummed out by the "rule of two" established in the prequels. I don't want just a Sith Master and their inevitably betraying apprentice, I want an army of Sith taking on a battalion of lightsaber-wielding Jedi. It always seemed like such a weird limitation on an otherwise open mythology.
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Rule of two is stupid af. But any future installment could have a Sith lord who just discards the rule and builds a Sith army. Or it could take place in the distant past. How long has the rule supposedly been around?
 
The Silver

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,725
Sobriquet said:
Rule of two is stupid af. But any future installment could have a Sith lord who just discards the rule and builds a Sith army. Or it could take place in the distant past. How long has the rule supposedly been around?
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It's been around for 2000 years.

And you don't need the Sith, they're just a particular dark side cult, they don't have a monopoly on the dark side. You could make up any other group of dark side users, like the sequels.

Of course Snoke and Kylo are extremely unimaginative as not Sith dark users when they're so similar, a group like the Nightsisters from Clone Wars who use the dark side more like arcane magic spells is the real good stuff.
 

kIdMuScLe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,575
Los angeles
DeaconKnowledge said:
Those things are boring because they're useless against Jedi.

Remember RotS? An entire huge space battle and two Jedi cut their way through it like a knife through butter and demolish everything in sight with minimal effort. Blasters are no threat to Jedi - put a Jedi in a room of 100 guys with blasters. Who wins? Nobody will say the 100 guys.
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I remember seeing a shit load of Jedis dying in episode 2&3. Qui gin got killed by a Sith padawan.
 
yankeeh8er

yankeeh8er

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,025
Dracula Georgia
Coyote Starrk said:
I really wish Disney would just throw caution to the wind and do a Darth Bane Trilogy or a Revan Trilogy. The stories surrounding Darth Bane and Revan are the best Star Wars related content I have ever enjoyed and I feel like its a huge missed opportunity to just leave them on the shelf to collect dust. Especially when their latest ventures have been rather polarizing.
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Are you me? I have posted many times how kotor is the best star wars related content. I would love to see a trilogy centered on revan. Rise of Revan, fall of revan, redemption of revan. Let's go!
 
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