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The Jedi/Sith are boring.

DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
This is my main gripe with Star Wars. Nothing trumps a Jedi. When a Jedi is on screen, all non Jedi combatants are rendered useless. There is no in universe being as powerful as the Jedi/Sith. Lucas had a fantastic opportunity to rectify this with Grievous, but her got nerfed before he even got to the movie (by a Jedi who didn't even fight him! Force crush. Yawn.)

When I watched the OT, I thought being a Jedi was about more that the sword. Yoda never even touches one in Empire, and all of his lessons to Luke have to do with the Force, not the Laser Sword. Conversely, Palpatine calls the Light Saber a "Jedi weapon" and seemingly has no use for it, as his force powers alone are far mightier than some stupid sword. Fast forward to the PT and both characters are swinging away. It's so boring.

How does the series fix this? I think it's simple - make Jedi/Sith characters who fight strictly with the Force. Not every Jedi needs a Light Saber. Also, it would be nice to see a non Jedi character who can hang with or even best a Jedi in battle.

*Starts countdown to somebody saying "well, in the expanded universe..."
 
Lord Vatek

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,500
Wait is your problem with Jedi/Sith or with the lightsaber?

Because a lightsaber-less Jedi would still be overpowered.
 
RedVejigante

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,640
I will admit that I was always bummed out by the "rule of two" established in the prequels. I don't want just a Sith Master and their inevitably betraying apprentice, I want an army of Sith taking on a battalion of lightsaber-wielding Jedi. It always seemed like such a weird limitation on an otherwise open mythology.
 
OP
OP
DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
Lord Vatek said:
Wait is your problem with Jedi/Sith or with the lightsaber?

Because a lightsaber-less Jedi would still be overpowered.
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i felt I was pretty clear about it. EVERY Jedi has a light saber. it makes the fights so predictable. Imagine Rey having to face an opponent who doesn't use a lightsaber. Immediately the fight has depth because Rey, while adept is a novice Jedi and has a limited toolset. She has to do more than swing a lightsaber to defeat her opponent.
 
PopQuiz

PopQuiz

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,254
Your problem is that Lucas messed up in the prequels. I think most people would agree with that.

The Sequel Trilogy largely agrees with you. Luke makes the same critique of "laser swords".
 
Jhey Cyphre

Jhey Cyphre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,081
PopQuiz said:
Your problem is that Lucas messed up in the prequels. I think most people would agree with that.

The Sequel Trilogy largely agrees with you. Luke makes the same critique of "laser swords".
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Everyone made that mistake. The EU went nuts with the lightsabers as well. It was just something cool from the OT that got blown way out of proportion.
 
chrisPjelly

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,491
This is a thing I REALLY want to see in the spin off trilogies. Give us a story in a different part/time in the universe, with different factions and combat styles, BUT still retaining some form of the Force.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,222
Jhey Cyphre said:
Everyone made that mistake. The EU went nuts with the lightsabers as well. It was just something cool from the OT that got blown way out of proportion.
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latest
 
sleepnaught

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
DeaconKnowledge said:
see a non Jedi character who can hang with or even best a Jedi in battle. ."
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We saw that in Episode One when Darth Maul defeated Qui Gon Jin. We technically saw that in the original Star Wars when Darth Vader killed Obi Wan. ^ Then Palps made quick work of multiple Jedi and even fought to a draw versus Yoda, the most powerful Jedi of all.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,222
sleepnaught said:
We saw that in Episode One when Darth Maul defeated Qui Gon Jin. We technically saw that in the original Star Wars when Darth Vader killed Obi Wan. ^ Then Palps made quick work of multiple Jedi and even fought to a draw versus Yoda, the most powerful Jedi of all.
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General Grievous kills more Jedi in a few minutes than we see Vader do in all the movies combined lol
 
Dragon's Game

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
FmxrvXsAxa4S0NMD1LFHkQBo0SltZ_sO6UZRzdOEYDU.jpg

a similar criticism I have of this scene.......why does Big E need a fire sword, he's like Palpatine level in terms of psyker ability
 
Coyote Starrk

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,795
This is why I have always preferred the Old Republic extended universe over the main one. There are Sith and Jedi everywhere so it feels like things are more balanced. It also helps that the Bounty Hunters are actually full blown badasses that have the ability to harm them in certain circumstances.
 
Lord Vatek

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,500
DeaconKnowledge said:
i felt I was pretty clear about it. EVERY Jedi has a light saber. it makes the fights so predictable. Imagine Rey having to face an opponent who doesn't use a lightsaber. Immediately the fight has depth because Rey, while adept is a novice Jedi and has a limited toolset. She has to do more than swing a lightsaber to defeat her opponent.
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Oh alright.

Then yeah, I can agree though I feel that the Force power well was mostly dried up with Yoda vs. Sheev in RotS. The Force's combat capabilities are fairly limited outside of throwing things and lightning.
 
SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,467
Clone Wars and Rebels address this a bit. There are force users that aren't Jedi or Sith, including ones that don't use any weapons besides the force like Bendu. A Mandalorian with a dark saber can be a pretty decent match for a Jedi. Etc.
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,910
It's not the Sith and the Jedi that are boring. It's literally every other thing in the Star Wars universe.

Dudes with blasters are *yawn*. Might as well be fodder.
 
Vern

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
Blasters are hella boring too.

Edit: beat


Best thing about Star Wars is the dogfighting and unique settings/sense of place.
 
Coyote Starrk

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,795
I really wish Disney would just throw caution to the wind and do a Darth Bane Trilogy or a Revan Trilogy. The stories surrounding Darth Bane and Revan are the best Star Wars related content I have ever enjoyed and I feel like its a huge missed opportunity to just leave them on the shelf to collect dust. Especially when their latest ventures have been rather polarizing.
 

dudefriend

Banned
Apr 27, 2019
416
RedVejigante said:
I will admit that I was always bummed out by the "rule of two" established in the prequels. I don't want just a Sith Master and their inevitably betraying apprentice, I want an army of Sith taking on a battalion of lightsaber-wielding Jedi. It always seemed like such a weird limitation on an otherwise open mythology.
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agree so hard

it also just makes no sense why would you train someone who's inevitably going to betray you while you die in violence
 
OP
OP
DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
Shroki said:
It's not the Sith and the Jedi that are boring. It's literally every other thing in the Star Wars universe.

Dudes with blasters are *yawn*. Might as well be fodder.
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Those things are boring because they're useless against Jedi.

Remember RotS? An entire huge space battle and two Jedi cut their way through it like a knife through butter and demolish everything in sight with minimal effort. Blasters are no threat to Jedi - put a Jedi in a room of 100 guys with blasters. Who wins? Nobody will say the 100 guys.
 
Rassilon

Rassilon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,582
UK
imo the Sith nothing more than pantomime villains and a lot of attempts to give them depth just makes them seem like pathetic edge lords.

Some EU Jedi depictions are more relatable as they struggle, fail and have interesting growth, or fall tragically.

Having read Bane I didn't really understand why I should emote with the protagonist, who was a space serial killer and facist maniac.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
Jhey Cyphre said:
Everyone made that mistake. The EU went nuts with the lightsabers as well. It was just something cool from the OT that got blown way out of proportion.
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It always interesting how few light saber action there was actually in the OT.
In A New Hope Luke's light saber was even a reversed Chekhov's gun.
 
CesareNorrez

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,507
Not everything has to be for everyone. But consider millions of people are inspired by the Jedi/Sith dynamic and the morality of Star Wars. It's meant to be simple because the philosophy is simple because it was created to appeal to children and children at heart. It's a fairytale.
 
OP
OP
DeaconKnowledge

DeaconKnowledge

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
CesareNorrez said:
Not everything has to be for everyone. But consider millions of people are inspired by the Jedi/Sith dynamic and the morality of Star Wars. It's meant to be simple because the philosophy is simple because it was created to appeal to children and children at heart. It's a fairytale.
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I don't see how what I've suggested changes that. More variety is not a bad thing. Not to mention that I feel Star Wars has worked itself into a rut for this very reason.
 
Rivenblade

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,114
A Jedi should be able to crush people's limbs with the force. It's already a broken system, man.
 
Principate

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
DeaconKnowledge said:
I don't see how what I've suggested changes that. More variety is not a bad thing. Not to mention that I feel Star Wars has worked itself into a rut for this very reason.
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Nah they're intrinsically boring. We've had a few movies with minimal to no light saber battles. There's nothing novel about it anymore.

Lightsabers are literally the only thing that sets Star Wars apart from other sci-fi fair. Everything else as been done to death. That's why it stuck around.
 
The Archon

The Archon

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,883
I dont know OP lightsabers are my favorite element of the Star Wars universe. The problem is that they havent shown us in the movies non-lightsaber users equipped to deal with force-wielding lightsaber users.
 
dabig2

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Ebony Maw and Scarlet Witch alone had more interesting uses of their force-like powers in Infinity War than basically all of the Star Wars movies. The games and cartoons allow for a little more variety (see: Mace Windu force using hand-to-hand boosted by the force in Genndy's cartoon).

So yeah, I generally agree that the lightsaber focus is lame, and that it can limit the action. I love me a good sword battle, but it should only add to a battle.

And also move beyond the swords in the mainstream movies. Those Praetorian Guards in TLJ had some nice whips, let a named non-red shirt character have a weapon like that and let them do some cool shit. Focusing on lightsabers and blasters makes the Star Wars galaxy feel even smaller than it already does. No one in a galaxy that has had type II civilizations for millennia could think of anything more than a goddamn laser sword???

Dare to dream a little bigger.
 
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