The ladder connection from Iosefka's Clinic to Forbidden Woods in Bloodborne is so good

Gush · Nov 8, 2019

Finding this was one of the most exciting moments in the game for me and one of many reasons forbidden woods is my favourite area in Bloodborne.

I can completely understand people saying the Dark Souls shortcuts were more utile but at the end of the day none of them made my eyes as wide or put as big of a smile on my face as that one. The bonus of getting more lore out of it, the summons, and resolving some lingering curiousities I had was more than enough for me.

Deleted member 23046 · Nov 8, 2019

It's not a shortcut but I like "the descent" in Mergo's loft, where you met mother brain.

Deleted member 50658 · Nov 8, 2019

While I certainly don't believe it's the best shortcut when it comes to actual shortcuts it's probably one of if not the most WTF inducing ones and I was so freaked out of all the stuff you find inside and the insights ;) it brings.

Weltall Zero · Nov 8, 2019

Ferrs said:
Undead Parish elevator is still goat though.

Yeah, I was thinking of that one too. In a game full of awesome loop-back shortcuts, that one is just so good.

That said, Iosefka's clinic ranks really high, because unlike most such shortcuts, it actually opens up a new part of the map rather than just providing convenience. It also has a very high "what the fuck?" factor because the areas are so different, otherwise incommunicated, and they feel like they should be literal miles apart. :)

signal · Nov 8, 2019

Rumpestump said:
While I certainly don't believe it's the best shortcut when it comes to actual shortcuts it's probably one of if not the most WTF inducing ones and I was so freaked out of all the stuff you find inside and the insights ;) it brings.

This is why it's unique I think. People keep bringing up shortcuts but I purposely tried to frame it as just a connection and not an actual shortcut because it's never used as one lol.

ASilentProtagonist · Nov 8, 2019

One of the most memorable moments this gen. Imagine these kind of shortcuts in an open world game by Fromsoftware, Elden Ring!

lvl 99 Pixel · Nov 8, 2019

Sekiro's Dilapidated Temple door
more of a teleport than anything but it was still pretty wtf

ASilentProtagonist · Nov 8, 2019

lvl 99 Pixel said:
Sekiro's Dilapidated Temple door

That was actually really bad, felt like a huge step down from BB, DS1 shortcuts

Toxi · Nov 8, 2019

MegaSackman said:
I got there early and ruined my first playthrough locking myself out of the true ending. Incredible level design.

...You can get the true ending even if you arrive early though.

signal · Nov 8, 2019

lvl 99 Pixel said:
Sekiro's Dilapidated Temple door
more of a teleport than anything but it was still pretty wtf

Link me up

Odeko · Nov 8, 2019

I've never really been a fan of that one, compared to the best ones in Dark Souls 1.

Like the classic example in DaS1 is an elevator from a cathedral down to a shrine and cemetery at the bottom of the cliff below. That makes perfect sense in-universe that the clergy and parishioners would have an easy route to the local graveyard or to pray at Firelink.

Iosefka's clinic on the other hand... what's that supposed to be exactly? Someone was exhuming a grave in the clinic and accidentally dug down into the Chalice Dungeons? And they had Laddersmith Gilligan on hand to make 300 feet of ladder? It just doesn't really fit with the world as well.

Plus the Bloodborne shortcuts are all pointless since you can warp to lanterns anyway.

Mechaplum · Nov 8, 2019

CopperPuppy said:
I agree with you.

Bloodborne's shortcuts actually gave me more "whoa" moments than Dark Souls' shortcuts.

Probably a minority opinion, but it is what it is.

Granted I played Dark Souls last in the series, but the long ladder down to fireshrine link didn't really do much for me. Bloodborne and DS3 gave me more "whoa" moments.

Toxi · Nov 8, 2019

Ferrs said:
Undead Parish elevator is still goat though.

This or the ladder under the Hellkite bridge.

The moment you see "kick ladder" and realize you never have to do that fucking firebomb bridge again is so great on a first playthrough.

signal · Nov 8, 2019

Odeko said:
I've never really been a fan of that one, compared to the best ones in Dark Souls 1.

Like the classic example in DaS1 is an elevator from a cathedral down to a shrine and cemetery at the bottom of the cliff below. That makes perfect sense in-universe that the clergy and parishioners would have an easy route to the local graveyard or to pray at Firelink.

Iosefka's clinic on the other hand... what's that supposed to be exactly? Someone was exhuming a grave in the clinic and accidentally dug down into the Chalice Dungeons? And they had Laddersmith Gilligan on hand to make 300 feet of ladder? It just doesn't really fit with the world as well.

Plus the Bloodborne shortcuts are all pointless since you can warp to lanterns anyway.

Why a Chalice Dungeon when it just leads to the woods 🤔

Odeko · Nov 8, 2019

Toxi said:
This or the ladder under the Hellkite bridge.

The moment you see "kick ladder" and realize you never have to do that fucking firebomb bridge again is so great on a first playthrough.

The most underrated of all shortcuts is the dog-hamster-wheel elevator out of Blighttown.

You've been stuck in that hellhole for probably hours and think you'll have to somehow make your way up through Blighttown, through the whole Depths, and then through Lower Undead Burg when hallelujah you're deposited right back beneath Firelink. Nothing is better than that.

signal said:
Why a Chalice Dungeon when it just leads to the woods 🤔

The undead giants in there are Pthumerians, and the Pthumerians come from the Chalice Dungeons. There's also some weird ruins in that cave that look Pthumerian and Byrgenwerth originally discovered the Chalice Dungeons beneath the Forbidden Woods.

TheCongressman · Nov 9, 2019

I was pretty in awe the first time I found it. But on later playthroughs I got to thinking about how it wasn't accessible early on, and I wished that bloodborne was more flexible with progression. I'll always prefer Dark Soul's level design by miles just for this one aspect.

Toxi · Nov 9, 2019

Odeko said:
I've never really been a fan of that one, compared to the best ones in Dark Souls 1.

Like the classic example in DaS1 is an elevator from a cathedral down to a shrine and cemetery at the bottom of the cliff below. That makes perfect sense in-universe that the clergy and parishioners would have an easy route to the local graveyard or to pray at Firelink.

Iosefka's clinic on the other hand... what's that supposed to be exactly? Someone was exhuming a grave in the clinic and accidentally dug down into the Chalice Dungeons? And they had Laddersmith Gilligan on hand to make 300 feet of ladder? It just doesn't really fit with the world as well.

Plus the Bloodborne shortcuts are all pointless since you can warp to lanterns anyway.

I mean, the Healing Church is obsessed with Chalice Dungeons. That's where they found the Old Blood and Ebrietas.

A common theory about the Forbidden Woods is that it's where the Healing Church was experimenting with "Ashen Blood", since Antidotes are described as a short term cure for the supposed disease (which means it's just poison) and there's a giant poisonous lake there. Redgrave's the Pale Blood Hunt has a good chapter on it.

The hole was also clearly used for dumping bodies; there are a lot of skeletons down there.

Uncle Sensei · Nov 9, 2019

It didn't make any sense to me.
Reminded me of riding the elevator into a volcano in DS2

Odeko · Nov 9, 2019

TheCongressman said:
I was pretty in awe the first time I found it. But on later playthroughs I got to thinking about how it wasn't accessible early on, and I wished that bloodborne was more flexible with progression. I'll always prefer Dark Soul's level design by miles just for this one aspect.

The combination of pretty linear progression with Souls-like weapon placement is such a bummer.

I always thought it would be cool if you could unlock new starting builds for new games in Bloodborne, since you're currently limited to so few weapons for the first third of the game. Like imagine beating the Orphan unlocked a new starting class that came with the Milkweed rune, Black Sky Eye, and a Kos Parasite.

Yeah I know that's what New Game + is for but, man it's just not the same as a fresh playthrough where you slowly build up your weapons and stats.

Toxi said:
I mean, the Healing Church is obsessed with Chalice Dungeons. That's where they found the Old Blood.

A common theory about the Forbidden Woods is that it's where the Healing Church was experimenting with "Ashen Blood", since Antidotes are described as a short term cure for the supposed disease and there's a giant poisonous lake there. Redgrave's the Pale Blood Hunt has a good chapter on it.

Oh 100% the Healing Church is all over the Chalice Dungeons -- it's just the weird way it connects to a freshly exhumed grave via 10,000 ladders that doesn't quite work for me. The Healing Church has had access to the Chalice Dungeons for at least like... 20 years at this point (since they pull Ebrietas out of it prior to founding The Choir and all the Choir orphans are well into adulthood when we meet them). And they're not ones to shy away from building huge ornate elaborate structures to accomplish much more mundane tasks, so what's the point of the rickety ladder tunnel to poison town?

Toxi · Nov 9, 2019

Odeko said:
The combination of pretty linear progression with Souls-like weapon placement is such a bummer.

I always thought it would be cool if you could unlock new starting builds for new games in Bloodborne, since you're currently limited to so few weapons for the first third of the game. Like imagine beating the Orphan unlocked a new starting class that came with the Milkweed rune, Black Sky Eye, and a Kos Parasite.

Yeah I know that's what New Game + is for but, man it's just not the same as a fresh playthrough where you slowly build up your weapons and stats.

Yeah, this is one of the most frustrating things about Bloodborne. I would love to be able to start a playthrough with the Beast Claw instead of having to reach fucking Loran.

I'm okay with some weapons being late game like the Moonlight Sword, but so many are locked behind basically beating the entire game.

Odeko · Nov 9, 2019

Toxi said:
Yeah, this is one of the most frustrating things about Bloodborne. I would love to be able to start a playthrough with the Beast Claw instead of having to reach fucking Loran.

I'm okay with some weapons being late game like the Moonlight Sword, but so many are locked behind basically beating the entire game.

\o/ Everyone give your energy to whomever at SIE signed off on the PC port for Death Stranding. We need PC mods for Bloodborne and we need them three years ago \o/.

Toxi · Nov 9, 2019

Odeko said:
\o/ Everyone give your energy to whomever at SIE signed off on the PC port for Death Stranding. We need PC mods for Bloodborne and we need them three years ago \o/.

\o/\o/\o/

Seriously, Bloodborne is the number one game I can think of that would benefit from a PC port.

dom · Nov 9, 2019

Odeko said:
The combination of pretty linear progression with Souls-like weapon placement is such a bummer.

I always thought it would be cool if you could unlock new starting builds for new games in Bloodborne, since you're currently limited to so few weapons for the first third of the game. Like imagine beating the Orphan unlocked a new starting class that came with the Milkweed rune, Black Sky Eye, and a Kos Parasite.

Yeah I know that's what New Game + is for but, man it's just not the same as a fresh playthrough where you slowly build up your weapons and stats.

Oh 100% the Healing Church is all over the Chalice Dungeons -- it's just the weird way it connects to a freshly exhumed grave via 10,000 ladders that doesn't quite work for me. The Healing Church has had access to the Chalice Dungeons for at least like... 20 years at this point (since they pull Ebrietas out of it prior to founding The Choir and all the Choir orphans are well into adulthood when we meet them). And they're not ones to shy away from building huge ornate elaborate structures to accomplish much more mundane tasks, so what's the point of the rickety ladder tunnel to poison town?

It's why chalice dungeon progression should have been account wide. It already was independent of New Game Cycle. Would allow one to get plenty of weapons early.

TapDancingFreak · Nov 9, 2019

What a moment. Getting to the Forbidden Woods was the moment I realized I was playing a classic. It was my first time playing a FromSoft game so I was having a pretty wild experience, then I got this shortcut and low key lost my shit.

dodo · Nov 9, 2019

Manfred said:
It's not a shortcut but I like "the descent" in Mergo's loft, where you met mother brain.

This is one of the strongest moments of the gen for me. truly spooky

signal · Nov 9, 2019

xeecee said:
This is one of the strongest moments of the gen for me. truly spooky

I think I skipped the cinematic where you drop her down into there from the high up spot so when I got down there I was like "the fuck is this why is it here" lol

Dr Pears · Nov 9, 2019

Whoever put that ladder there gets a like from me!

Toxi · Nov 9, 2019

signal said:
I think I skipped the cinematic where you drop her down into there from the high up spot so when I got down there I was like "the fuck is this why is it here" lol

Honestly that sounds like it would be even better as an experience.

"what the actual fuck is that thing"

MegaSackman · Nov 9, 2019

Toxi said:
...You can get the true ending even if you arrive early though.

If you get there before Rom and kill Iosefka, she doesn't drop an umbilical cord.

Of course, you can still get three of those but I missed another.

Thuddert · Nov 9, 2019

Definitely was a mark against in Sekiro.

Look! The Pie! · Nov 9, 2019

Yeah, it's up there with the best for me - it connects two areas which feel like they should be miles apart, opens up a completely new area, and provides interesting lore. It's just useless as an actual shortcut due to fast travel.

Though also not technically a shortcut, I'm also partial to DS3's ladder from the depths of the swamp in Farron Keep to the inaccessible side of the broken bridge at the foot of the Lothric High Wall. The bridge is always visible far above you but by the time you find the ladder you've gone through Undead Settlement, the Road of Sacrifices, the Crucifixion Woods and a large part of the swamp so it feels like you've travelled a huge distance.

Sekiro's shortcuts felt like a massive step down in comparison. You just go through a revolving door and teleport from one area to another, with no context given as to how they actually connect (and given the geography of the world I actually don't think it's possible for at least one of the shortcuts to take you where it does).

Slim · Nov 9, 2019

Ferrs said:
Undead Parish elevator is still goat though.

For sure

cakely · Nov 9, 2019

I totally agree with you.

It's such a satisfying short-cut.

Nocturnowl · Nov 9, 2019

Personally I was always amazed by the huge door in old yarnham being beyond darkbeast linking the unseen village which up until then seemed like it's own thing only accessible through....weird teleportation shit?

But you know, add me to the chorus if dat parish elevator, peak souls moment, peak video game exploration moment really

Transistor · Nov 9, 2019

Benzychenz said:
The fast travel undermines it though.

The shortcuts in Dark Souls are actually meaningful because you don't unlock fast travel until 3/4 through the game.

My thoughts exactly.

I LOVE the Iosefka ladder, but all the interconnects in Dark Souls 1 mean so much more to me because you have to hoof it the whole game.

From a lore perspective alone though, Iosefka's ladder is unmatched.

shuno · Nov 9, 2019

It was great, but the only one worth remembering from BB. I prefer the more interconnected world of DS for sure.

Zombegoast · Nov 9, 2019

I was burned out from the Souls series until last month when I played Bloodborne for the first time.

Bloodborne's level designed help me recapture what I loved about Dark Souls 1. Sekiro while not a Soulsborne game is great as well and I hope Elden Ring continues this

My problem with Dark Souls 3 that it was a hallway with any branching path leading to a dead end. It's my least replayed Souls game.

MoonlitBow · Nov 9, 2019

It was great, but the only one worth remembering from BB. I prefer the more interconnected world of DS for sure.

There could have been an extra shortcut for defeating Cleric Beast (which would allow you to take a different path through the first parts of the game), but for some reason it was never implemented even though the world is connected except for that one door blocking passage. It's one of the strangest omissions from Bloodborne.

Even still, it wouldn't have been as amazing as how Dark Souls connected its world, but it would have been a nice shortcut.

Cugel · Nov 9, 2019

Church to fire link shrine was a biggest moment but I loved iosefka too

signal · Nov 9, 2019

Look! The Pie! said:
Yeah, it's up there with the best for me - it connects two areas which feel like they should be miles apart, opens up a completely new area, and provides interesting lore. It's just useless as an actual shortcut due to fast travel.

Though also not technically a shortcut, I'm also partial to DS3's ladder from the depths of the swamp in Farron Keep to the inaccessible side of the broken bridge at the foot of the Lothric High Wall. The bridge is always visible far above you but by the time you find the ladder you've gone through Undead Settlement, the Road of Sacrifices, the Crucifixion Woods and a large part of the swamp so it feels like you've travelled a huge distance.

Sekiro's shortcuts felt like a massive step down in comparison. You just go through a revolving door and teleport from one area to another, with no context given as to how they actually connect (and given the geography of the world I actually don't think it's possible for at least one of the shortcuts to take you where it does).

Yeah that High Wall part was cool. Always nice to reach places you can see earlier.

The ladder connection from Iosefka's Clinic to Forbidden Woods in Bloodborne is so good

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