The Last Jedi: The Gentle(wo)man's discussion thread

[Blackpuppy]

Let's try an experiment here. Yes, The Last Jedi is divisive; the whole Internet is aware of that. Some revere it as the best in the series since Empire and others dismiss it as the worst since Attack of the Clones.

In other threads, many are lamenting the fact that one cannot have a mature conversation about the film. I propose that this thread be a safe-space for anyone mature enough to talk about their feelings about a movie (and yes everyone, let's remember that these are just movies) without getting red in the face. A few rules:

DO NOTS:
- No sexists or racist remarks (duh).
- No talk of "SJWs", "Soyboys", etc.
- No shit posting.
- No jabs at Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson, Lucasfilm, Disney, etc. You can critique their decisions, but you cannot call them names or accuse them of any harm-doing (examples: Rian Johnson is a hack!... Disney ruined my childhood!... )
- Do not say someone is wrong or right. These arguments are cyclical and never get resolved. Say instead, 'I think perhaps you misunderstood so and so'. If someone still doesn't agree with your point of view after giving sufficient counter arguments... Just shakes hands and let it go.
- Let's avoid dragging the state of Star Wars into this. I don't think it's wrong to compare and contrast TLJ to other works, but can we just talk about this film in a vacuum so to speak?

DOs:
- Use mature language. If you don't agree with someone's view, that's fine. Just say, 'I agree, I disagree.. I see where you're coming from, but...'
- Please back up any criticisms or love you have for the film with examples. Don't just write a one sentence post saying 'This film is shit.' or 'This film is a masterpiece'. Please explain why.


I'll get started:

I think TLJ has a lot of positive aspects to it, in fact I would place it after Star Wars and ESB. Why? Not only is it a beautiful looking film, it bravely takes the characters and drags them through the mud and allows them to grow stronger for the next part of the trilogy. It's a perfect middle chapter to a 3 part story.

However, the weakest part of TLJ for me is Finn. While, his arc is definitely there (at the beginning he wants nothing to do with the Resistance, but by the end is totally in step with them, so much so, he is willing to sacrifice himself), it is a little muddled. It's when watching the deleted scenes on the Bluray that I realized why: so much of Finn's arc was cut out for pacing/time. His conversation with Poe explaining his intentions, his moment with BB-8, his lamenting that Rey is not with him at the Casino, his speech to the troops in Snoke's ship... All of these are moments are solidify his intentions more clearly than what we got in the final cut.

I also find that J.J Abram's 'mystery box' in episode 7 did a bit of a disservice. While it's fine to have some questions at the end of a film, there were just too many wild threads let loose for any universally satisfying answers. It reminds me of Lost where they kept piling on mystery after mystery and people kept coming up with theories for years and years and the final answer was...meh. I applaud Rian Johnson for avoiding a repeat of the Lost finale (I think some questions are better left unanswered than answered badly).

Example: what if ep.7 had a scene explaining the state of the universe and someone asked, 'Who's this Snoke guy anyway?' And another person replies, 'He was their plan B'. That would leave things both resolved but open ended enough for us to imagine how Snoke came to be.

Anyway, I hope we can have a civil discussion here. Please feel free to talk about what you liked or didn't like. Remember, it's just a film. We can like a movie and have issues with it; we can hate a movie and like certain things about it. Talk about them here!

Let's be adults!

Edit: poll added.

 

[sibarraz]

Good Luck

 

[Alexandros]

This is a thread I will gladly take part in. I'll write my detailed thoughts on the movie a bit later.

 

[PatMan]

The last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie, with Revenge of the Sith behind it.

 

[Blackpuppy]

The last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie, with Revenge of the Sith behind it.

Click to shrink...

Could you please explain why? I am trying to avoid single sentence postings in this thread. I feel like people get worked up when not given context.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie ever made. I'd put it up there alongside Jaws and Raiders of the Lost Ark as one of my top 3 favorite modern blockbuster (starting with Jaws in '75) films of all time.

It is fucking gorgeous.

God damn this is one beautiful film.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

This scene is chill inducing every time I see it. It is just pure Star Wars greatness.

This is the best shot in the history of this franchise"

 

[dr_octagon]

it’s a decent film

 

[BernardoOne]

The worst thing about it is how it's constantly ramming into your head that it's totally going to be completely different from other Star Wars movies, to just do away with that completely in the last act.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

I am not sure how anyone can watch this bit from the Making of TLJ and not tear up:

 

[Blackpuppy]

This scene is chill inducing every time I see it. It is just pure Star Wars greatness.

Click to shrink...

I really like this fight scene too. I love the long takes and the wide angles. You really have a sense of space and a sense for Kylo and Rey's respective fighting styles.

Although after seeing the 'disappearing knife' I can't UN-see it and that really makes me angry!

But angry in a 'shucks, I wish I didn't know that' kind of way.

 

[RoKKeR]

Ok movie, worst of the new ones though. (have not seen Solo)

Really wish Ray and Kylo Ren would have teamed up and blown up the whole red vs blue, light vs dark thing. It seemed like it might actually happen for a moment there and I was so curious in the possibilities.

That whole scene is gold though.

 

[Blackpuppy]

The worst thing about it is how it's constantly ramming into your head that it's totally going to be completely different from other Star Wars movies, to just do away with that completely in the last act.

Click to shrink...

Very interesting, what do you mean by 'doing away with that..in the last act'? What was similar about the ending to previous films?

 

[Deleted member 5666]

Some more shots from this beautiful film:

 

[cj_iwakura]

It's definitely a bold film. It sets a lot of exciting things into motion, especially after how cookie-cutter TFA was.

The problem is that it takes the ball and doesn't run with it. Kylo COULD have been a new kind of Sith, instead he just goes homicidal for reasons. He was actually sympathetic when he tried to draw Rey over to his side, and was this close to pulling it off. I almost wish it would have happened, because that would have been truly unpredictable.

There was no need to wipe out the resistance almost to the man just to make a dramatic ending. It doesn't feel hopeful like the end of Empire, it feels almost hopeless.

It's a good movie, very good even, but it still has glaring flaws.

Unlike TFA, which had nothing I liked.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

Some more of the best scenes, Yoda and Luke...perfect reunion of the two:

I don't care what people say Holdo's last stand was badass:

 

[shnurgleton]

it’s a decent film

Click to shrink...

I'll call your decent and raise you a good

 

[Ryan.]

 

[Pilgore]

I'd say I would call the film "fine." I liked TFA more I think. I really liked the cinematography, the soundtrack was good, I loved Driver as Kylo Ren and his whole struggle and transformation as the Main Villain towards the end was incredibly satisfying (no more Emperor Light with Snoke). I'm torn on Fin's character arc in this, I was really looking forward to Fin and Rey further developing their friendship and relationship. And I felt like the whole chase aspect to the Rebels and Order made the film feel very small and..not epic..I guess. I don't really feel anything for Rose, don't dislike or like her, just...meh. I LOVE her theme though and the throne room fight was exquisite. Luke was good, Hamill did a much better job here than in the OT, he's really grown as an actor. I thought his death was jarring though. He just died of exhaustion I guess? I get that they were trying to hearken back to Ben's death but getting struck with a lightsaber for real would have been a lot more dramatic to me, now he just kind of watches the sunset and....goes. I could hear the confusion in the audience when he died. Then again I'm not a film maker so. All in all it was an OK movie, much like most Disney era Star Wars movies. The only one so far that has really thrilled me was Rogue One, specifically the last battle over Scarif. The thing that frustrates me most about the new Sequel Trilogy is that so little world building is being done, the writers' reasoning being "well the originals didn't do this either" etc doesn't work here. TFA was episode ***7**** of a 9 part series, you can't just go "look, it's all just there, no need to explain it." No, explain your world, explain or show the stakes, show us how this all happened after the seemingly happy ending of Return of The Jedi. Instead The Last Jedi continues the trend set by The Force Awakens in not choosing to explain or show any of the world building or the state of the galaxy which I find frustrating. I'm not gonna read comics, books, play games or watch cartoons to get my backstory. My favorite part of the movie is probably the moment when the Falcon comes in over Crait and the TIE Figher Chase music starts playing from A New Hope. So good!

Really curious about 9, it's almost a blank canvas now. They can do just about anything, the resistance is basically just a handful of people now. The Order has had a regime change. The Force has "awakened" and force users are popping up everywhere now just like Rey. I'd bet that 9 opens up with a time jump and we're going to see a pretty different galaxy, one where "jedi" and "sith" are numerous again and where Rey is now pretty dang experienced and wise. Kylo has gone full Big Bad and Lea has probably passed away during the time jump of old age, with Poe taking up leadership and Fin and Rose as commanders or something. I think the end of this Sequel Saga will lead into a new golden age of force users, taking us back to an almost Prequel Era style Republic and "Jedi" temple.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

Click to shrink...

Yep. If you took that as a purely comedic moment....then the rest of the movie is probably going to go completely over your head. It set the tone for where Luke was perfectly.

 

[Platy]

First lets start by saying the movie is beautiful. The composition of the shots is simply unmatched by any movies of the series.


Ok, now it is one of my favorite movies of the series because it is both ridiculously new and subversive and totaly true and faifhull to the classics.

I think it is beautifull that most of the things people complain about this movie can be traced directly to what we knew in the first 2 original star wars movies. Who is Snoke? Why "just the leader of the villains and sith" worked for Palpatine and not Snoke? Is Rey a Mary Sue? Luke is so Mary Sue that it inspired not just rey, but also Kylo Ren, the literal original definition of a Mary Sue. Finn is underused? Han story on Empire is "hey look at my friend ah he sold me. I am stone now".

And yet you have things like revealing Rey's father as being nobody which was not only a very NEEDED thing for the saga (you don't need space jesus blood to be someone) but also an amazing contrast to Vader's reveal in Empire. And a discussion about the nature of capitalism profiting over wars that is way more than what I expected from a movie with laser swords that gives so little reason for their villains being villains. And all the classic characters have lovely and HUMAN character arcs. Hell, even fucking YODA shows character development in this movie and he is DEAD. Luke reaction to seeing the potential of a new vader on Kylo is both human and absolutely GENIOUS how they reshot this sequence in different ways to show the unreliable narrator feel of that story. And he vanishing like Obi Wan after a "fight" is absolutely perfect thematic rhyme.

And someone killed another person by turning his lightsaber on through the force.
That was like my top3 scenes that I wanted to see since I ever saw the original movies.

Beautiful movie, great evolution of he series and totaly not the same movie again and again.

And did I mentioned how gorgeous those compositions are?

 

[Slaythe]

I thought it was doing something interesting, and then it threw everything away in its last arc. (I didn't care much about the "plot holes" like "weaponized hyperspace!" "bombs in gravity" and all that, that never bothered me, though destroying the ship where both Finn and Rey were and they survive with no issue was a bit much)

I loved Kylo and Rey's connection, I loved Kylo's gray nature, and I had enjoyed Luke coming back to his senses.

But at the end, it's revealed "Snoke connected Kylo and Rey" which completely undermines their connection, Kylo suddenly decides to let his mother die for no reason after sparing her earlier, Rey can't convince him to at least not be pure evil, and Luke comes back as a phantom and just dies out of ... fatigue ?

It felt so forced, like no matter what happened in the movie the end goal was gonna be this and it forced its way through.

I did not enjoy all the fake twists. "Oh only one person can hack this ! Except that guy you randomly find in a jail" "Oh no Kylo killed Luke !!! Ah he's alive ! No he's dead" "Phasma survived ? Maybe she-- never mind" .

The whole movie felt like this.

I feel it could have been great, it had everything for it, and threw all of it away for the sake of not "pleasing" some people ? I don't know.

The movie also kinda made Finn and Poe irrelevant (for me) in the grand scheme of things and now the only point of interest is Kylo and Rey.

Rey's progression is nonsensical because of the short time lapse. It's been a couple of days and she beats Kylo again.

"Anyone can be a jedi" that was already the case though, every single Jedi minus the Skywalkers were already "nobodies", but they had to train hard and get experience. It's not about raw power too, that's exactly why Anakin lost to Obi Wan. So seeing Rey that had no experience just blast through everything is annoying.


At the end of the day, everything I cared about, be it a mystery, plot line, or character, was kinda concluded (in unsatisfactory ways for most of them) so I'm not looking forward to anything anymore.

I also dislike how "our Heroes" from the OT ended up, in hindsight. When I watch this scene :


I get sad and bitter as to how it all ended up. To me killing off old characters shouldn't be the goal, you can have new characters that shine just as bright, here it felt like they felt the OT was threatening the new characters.

Let the past die indeed.
They stroke them down and they became more powerful than they imagined. I fully understand why some people are mad. I'm not "mad" but I'm clearly just disappointed. I'm kinda "off" star wars currently, not sure how I'll feel in the future.

 

[Mona]

This thread has demonstrated to me how beautiful the film is at times, I honestly hadn't noticed when I was in the theater

 

[Joni]

I'm not a Star Wars fan, so I don't care how this fits in a bigger universe and the likes. I went in for a movie that was enjoyable as a standalone thing. Rogue One plays a big role in the bigger universe, but it works as a story. I didn't get that with The Last Jedi. Mainly because quite a bit of the story is wasted on characters that could easily be cut. The entirety of Finn's character could easily be cut. He needs to be there because he was important for The Force Awakens and I assume for the next movie, but don't see why he was here. His story with Brienne didn't matter, his work with Benecio Del Toro could easily be taken over by Poe. I think you could also make a stronger story if Poe falls out with Leia instead of Holdo. Luke dying is stupid in hindsight, with Carrie's death. But it also feels so unfinished. It felt a bit Obi-Wan versus Darth Vader, but Anakin knew why Obi-Wan turned on him. Kylo didn't. Maybe some acknowledgement that maybe Luke was right from Kylo, but that they are now on their destined paths to destroy each other.

 

[dr_octagon]

I'll call your decent and raise you a good

Click to shrink...

that’s fair, there is plenty to like

i think if this wasn’t part of a trilogy, the director could have done more without being tied down with the previous set up

canto was a b(l)ight on the pacing and story overall, didn’t see the point of it

 

[Deleted member 5666]

The red of the throne room resulted in some of the prettiest shots of this movie.

 

[mjc]

Yep. If you took that as a purely comedic moment....then the rest of the movie is probably going to go completely over your head. It set the tone for where Luke was perfectly.

Click to shrink...

But half of reset has told me that SW has never had corny humor in it, and TLJ has too much...

(I agree with you btw)

 

[Deleted member 22354]

I think TLJ is a bad movie, but most importantly it's a really bad middle movie of a trilogy. It threw everything away from TFA and replaced it with nothing. And now it has like zero set up for episode IX. What is there to care about in episode IX? The movie also made me care less about the characters ( the mosti important part imo)

 

[cj_iwakura]

The throne room fight is probably the most savage duel in all of SW. It constantly keeps upping the ante.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

First lets start by saying the movie is beautiful. The composition of the shots is simply unmatched by any movies of the series.


Ok, now it is one of my favorite movies of the series because it is both ridiculously new and subversive and totaly true and faifhull to the classics.

I think it is beautifull that most of the things people complain about this movie can be traced directly to what we knew in the first 2 original star wars movies. Who is Snoke? Why "just the leader of the villains and sith" worked for Palpatine and not Snoke? Is Rey a Mary Sue? Luke is so Mary Sue that it inspired not just rey, but also Kylo Ren, the literal original definition of a Mary Sue. Finn is underused? Han story on Empire is "hey look at my friend ah he sold me. I am stone now".

And yet you have things like revealing Rey's father as being nobody which was not only a very NEEDED thing for the saga (you don't need space jesus blood to be someone) but also an amazing contrast to Vader's reveal in Empire. And a discussion about the nature of capitalism profiting over wars that is way more than what I expected from a movie with laser swords that gives so little reason for their villains being villains. And all the classic characters have lovely and HUMAN character arcs. Hell, even fucking YODA shows character development in this movie and he is DEAD. Luke reaction to seeing the potential of a new vader on Kylo is both human and absolutely GENIOUS how they reshot this sequence in different ways to show the unreliable narrator feel of that story. And he vanishing like Obi Wan after a "fight" is absolutely perfect thematic rhyme.

And someone killed another person by turning his lightsaber on through the force.
That was like my top3 scenes that I wanted to see since I ever saw the original movies.

Beautiful movie, great evolution of he series and totaly not the same movie again and again.

And did I mentioned how gorgeous those compositions are?

Click to shrink...

That whole tweet thread has some beautiful shots in it.

Some great picks he had:

 

[Deleted member 2229]

It's definitely a bold film. It sets a lot of exciting things into motion, especially after how cookie-cutter TFA was.

The problem is that it takes the ball and doesn't run with it. Kylo COULD have been a new kind of Sith, instead he just goes homicidal for reasons. He was actually sympathetic when he tried to draw Rey over to his side, and was this close to pulling it off. I almost wish it would have happened, because that would have been truly unpredictable.

There was no need to wipe out the resistance almost to the man just to make a dramatic ending. It doesn't feel hopeful like the end of Empire, it feels almost hopeless.

It's a good movie, very good even, but it still has glaring flaws.

Unlike TFA, which had nothing I liked.

Click to shrink...

Kylo Ren and Snoke already aren't really "Sith". No Sith exist after Vader and Palpatine. But my take is that the film is trying to tell you that not everyone is worth saving, some people are too stuck in their ways and its better to cut them out of your life and let go than to keep trying. A lot of people didn't like that Rey didn't go with Ren but ignore the "why". Ren wasn't just about giving up on the Sith and the Jedi, he wanted to use his power to rule the galaxy with Rey. Yeah he cared about her, because she was probably the first in a long time to give him a chance but his intentions were clear and Rey has no reason or interest to abandon all her morals to go rule the galaxy with someone who was already off his rocker. He then has a temper tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted then moves on to finding another way to consolidate power. He was never about moving on to something new, he just wants to surprass Vader.

 

[DarthOrange]

I really liked that they showed the ramifications of being a reckless space cowboy. Showing all the people Poe got killed was a great way to give the film that extra bit of weight. I also appreciated that the long shot side quest that Finn went on ended in failure. Because of fucking course it did. The plan was a crazy long shot from the beginning and they are lucky they made it as far as they did. Same with just finding another hacker even though there was allegedly only one who could do it. Of fucking course there is more than one person in the universe who could do what needs to get done. No one coming to the aid of the rebels at the end was also great. I kept expecting a large fleet of countries to come and save them (something akin to Whitebeard's allies coming to Marineford for you One Piece fans). But they didn't, because of course they didn't. What country would risk it's people and enter a much larger conflict for a handful of people?

All these things helped ground this movie. Every action had a consequence which is why nothing in the movie felt superfluous.

 

[adrem007]

- Do not say someone is wrong or right. These arguments are cyclical and never get resolved. Say instead, 'I think perhaps you misunderstood so and so'. If someone still doesn't agree with your point of view after giving sufficient counter arguments... Just shakes hands and let it go.

Click to shrink...

Good luck, people saying ''no, you didn't understand'' is exactly what these discussions need

 

[SweetVermouth]

So I didn't like this movie at all and I believe that the reason why it gets critized so heavily is not because the movie didn't met people's expectations but because the way they handle characters and their actions within story makes no sense.

I'll give an example: When TFA ended we have Rey and Luke standing just there on this lonely island. So then the movie is over and you are like "oh wow I wonder how Luke is going to react in episode 8!!" and then you imagine how he's gonna kick ass in 8 because by now he must be the strongest Jedi ever. Then finally you sit down, watch episode 8 and Luke tosses the lightsaber away. Now at this point you're wondering why he did that. The fact that he did it is not the problem, the problem is whether his reaction makes sense given the story. The whole story about TFA was about this map leading to Luke because they need him to fight the First Order. Now if nobody knows where Luke is, then who made the map? It can only be Luke himself who did it, remember: It's a map to Luke, not a map to the Jedi temple.

But in EP8 Luke said "I've come here to die". Then why did he even make a map that leads to him, if he just wants to die? You basically told us the whole movie TFA was a huge waste of time and then you are not even sticking with it. Luke came to the conclusion that the Jedi need to die and yet moments later he trains Rey and Yoda shows up and is like "Wrong, you are!".

Then there is this whole Luke hologram thing leading to his death. Again: That he dies is not the problem, but how it's incorporated into the story. He makes himself appear on salt planet, can fool his own sister into thinking it's really him but then ultimately does nothing because he's not real and then he just dies. A good example of how you could respectfully kill off a beloved character was done in the movie right before that. Seeing Han Solo die hurt, but it made sense in the story because it gives Kylo the growth he needs to become a sith or whatever he is now.

There are way more things I didn't like in this movie, but I just wanted to explain my line of thinking when it comes to certain scenes. Like... scenes can look cool, but they have to make sense... The pod race in TPM looks freaking cool, you have to admit that. It made no sense in the story, but it looked cool. That doesn't make it good though because it's a Star Wars movie... Of course it's gonna look great with all these creatures and props and CGI.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

One of the most iconic shots of the entire saga:

 

[WriterInTheDark]

I absolutely love it. If TFA was a pure nostalgia trip (I think it was more than that anyway) then The Last Jedi was the tearing down of established structures a series occasionally so far up its own arse with stuff like the prequels and expanded universe crap a series like Star Wars needs from time to time. I love Luke's character development and where they took his story, I love the Poe storyline, outstanding visuals and acting, I like Finn and Rose's adventure, it hugely subverted what I had in mind for this film, I love how it ended, I loved the crazy lightsaber fight, I loved where they took Kylo Ren and the revelation of where they took him, I thought it fit with Luke and the history of the Jedi being kinda dumb, I loved the meta stuff about the real criticisms of the Jedi as a concept, I liked how they brought Yoda back.

TL:DR I love everything about the last Jedi.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Kylo Ren and Snoke already aren't really "Sith". No Sith exist after Vader and Palpatine. But my take is that the film is trying to tell you that not everyone is worth saving, some people are too stuck in their ways and its better to cut them out of your life and let go than to keep trying. A lot of people didn't like that Rey didn't go with Ren but ignore the "why". Ren wasn't just about giving up on the Sith and the Jedi, he wanted to use his power to rule the galaxy with Rey. Yeah he cared about her, because she was probably the first in a long time to give him a chance but his intentions were clear and Rey has no reason or interest to abandon all her morals to go rule the galaxy with someone who was already off his rocker. He then has a temper tantrum because he didn't get what he wanted then moves on to finding another way to consolidate power. He was never about moving on to something new, he just wants to surprass Vader.

Click to shrink...

Yep, I realize that about him.

But he should have matured. What if he did just want to start something new instead of ruling the galaxy? It would have made him a lot more nuanced and interesting.

 

[Deleted member 5666]

S
Then there is this whole Luke hologram thing leading to his death. Again: That he dies is not the problem, but how it's incorporated into the story. He makes himself appear on salt planet, can fool his own sister into thinking it's really him but then ultimately does nothing because he's not real and then he just dies.

Click to shrink...

I honestly don't know how it is possible to watch the film and come away with "he does nothing".

He saved the Rebellion and the future of the Jedi with Rey. All of them would have been killed if he didn't go out there to distract Kylo.

He inspired the entire galaxy with his actions. The legendary Luke Skywalker faced the entire First Order and they coudn't even shoot him down. It is why we see the kids recreating Luke facing down the FO on Crait at the end. Luke was the spark to inspire the new Rebellion.

Luke's action at the end of TLJ has the most galaxy altering impact of any action of his entire life we have seen on screen. He saved the galaxy. In the biblical sense Luke essentially became Jesus in that moment. He truly became a legend and inspired a galaxy of followers from that action. To the galaxy Luke didn't "hologram" there and die on an island. What they saw and heard about was a man facing an entire fleet of the FO and not being able to be taken down.

 

[Wafflinson]

I don't care what people say Holdo's last stand was badass:

Click to shrink...

I concur. I found it hype AF.

Really sad that this forum spoiled that scene before I got to see the film...

 

[jon bones]

I agree that the tokenization of Finn is 100% the worst part of the film. They should have gone full-MCU and spun him off into his own story, providing a big SW film with a black lead and tightening up the pacing of TLJ (which is a real problem with the film).

The Kyle Ren / Rei stuff is very compelling but these movies are going to end up as white as the prequel movies.

 

[TheXbox]

Here goes nothing.

The film is good. Flawed, but probably the best of the four post-acquisition Star Wars films. Its chief problems are:

1. Finn's arc is bungled. The idea is fine, the execution is not. The idea is to convert Finn to the cause of the Resistance using DJ and Rose as the 'devil and the angel' by which Finn must weigh his commitment. Unfortunately, Finn commits to the Resistance after 45 minutes when he surrenders Rey's beacon to Poe, after which point he never makes a decision or deliberates on the cause again.

2. The ending to Poe's arc is overly generous. The film ends with a sweet reunion on the Falcon and a happy Poe Dameron. He is responsible for the annihilation of 380 men and women. The tone is triumphal, but his misdeeds are so egregious that they feel at odds with what the film is trying to convey: Poe is reformed leader and we should be happy for him.

Everything to do with Rey, Luke, and Ben is spectacular. In terms of visuals, editing, sound, etc., it is the most technically refined Star Wars film since ESB. Most of the humor is effective and the action blows away 99% of the shit other blockbusters put out. The soundtrack is predictably sublime (and underrated).

 

[Platy]

The red of the throne room resulted in some of the prettiest shots of this movie.

Click to shrink...

I absolutely love how they made that set. Like they took the "evil lair" and went straight to the line that it separetes it from "70's nonsense musica set" and nailed it

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Yep, I realize that about him.

But he should have matured. What if he did just want to start something new instead of ruling the galaxy? It would have made him a lot more nuanced and interesting.

Click to shrink...

I think at that point you have to deal with the characters past and the fact that he murdered his own father and countless other people. Yeah he had a bad start but he's still responsible. And before someone says "but Vader" ROTJ and TLJ are two tonally different movies with two different takes on morality and redemption.

 

[Mona]

I think TLJ is a bad movie, but most importantly it's a really bad middle movie of a trilogy. It threw everything away from TFA and replaced it with nothing. And now it has like zero set up for episode IX. What is there to care about in episode IX? The movie also made me care less about the characters ( the mosti important part imo)

Click to shrink...

Pretty much my thoughts exactly,

I wish TLJ had instead been repurposed to the beginning of RJ's trilogy, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it much more if that had been the case

 

[cj_iwakura]

I think at that point you have to deal with the characters past and the fact that he murdered his own father and countless other people. Yeah he had a bad start but he's still responsible. And before someone says "but Vader" ROTJ and TLJ are two tonally different movies with two different takes on morality and redemption.

Click to shrink...

Also true, but this feels more like interference because they couldn't have the villain be too sympathetic. The Kylo we see in the throne room calmly and rationally trying to sway Rey to his side and the screaming lunatic desperate to confront Luke are like two completely different people.

 

[Officer Big Mac]

I think everyone can agree Rian dodnt know what to do with Rose and Finn. The casino detour was a showstopper and their relationship is confusing.

 

[Blackpuppy]

Click to shrink...

I am going to play Devil's advocate here and say that I understand how this could be seen as comedic.

The Force Awakens closes with Luke in his normal Jedi garb and he stares at Rey and the lightsaber in a way that could suggest a lot of things. This seems to have built up a lot of expectations for fans.

Now let's fastforward 2 years in the future. Rey hands him the lightsaber. Pause on Luke. Long pause. It's actually a pretty long shot and he's staring at Rey. Tosses over shoulder. Cut to close up of Rey flabbergasted.

Perhaps, instead of tossing it over his shoulder, he goes to Rey, pushes it to her forcefully and tells her to go away?

 

[GARlock Spiral]

The cinematography for the movie is gorgeous.

Unfortunately, whatever happened in the writers' room came up with a few good ideas with iffy execution and just blew off the rest, and IMO it feels like it's all style no substance. It LOOKS good, certainly, but it feels more like a really, REALLY rough draft of what could have been a good Star Wars movie.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

I didn’t care about Fin and Rose’s arc which took up a significant part of the movie. The casino gave me terrible prequel vibes and the moral lesson that it attempted to carry seemed to be undermined/contradicted by the actions of the characters.

 

[Dook's Revenge]

I like how it hides the big twist of 9 in plain sight.