-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
The Last Jedi: The Gentle(wo)man's discussion thread
- Thread starter Blackpuppy
- Start date
OP
OP
I'm not a shipper at all but the build up and pay off of these two finally reuniting made my heart melt like butter.
You can tell they wanted to film some more scenes together lol. They both have great chemistry.
Oh yeah! This scene is great!
I don't think anyone ever argued that the movie wasn't visually stunning, it definitely is. It's a 3/5 as far as Star Wars films go; it's not great but there are some really good moments in it that make it worth watching, but the faults are definitely there and they are a problem. On the subject of it not having any noteworthy things, it's been out for roughly half a year. It'll take a while before it reaches its meme stride.
To be fair that fear becomes realized in Poe accidentally spilling the beans to DJ through telling Finn and Rose, but that was also due to her own negligence in not telling him in the first place.
I'm not a shipper at all but the build up and pay off of these two finally reuniting made my heart melt like butter.
You can tell they wanted to film some more scenes together lol. They both have great chemistry.
The Last Jedi probably would have been much stronger if Rey, Finn and Poe got more than one scene together.
I think the problem is execution. The scene is poorly shot, looks goofy and unearned, and resolves too fast. Like many other moments in the movie, it's not allowed to breathe.
Also, RLM (whose review is in my opinion one of the best around, and I rarely agree with them) make a great point about that scene being exemplar of the movies' problems.
Leia is on the ship's deck, ship's blown up, she ends up in space, she flies back to the ship, and she's back where she was.
TLJ is a very long movie that focuses on closing plotlines from TFA without having anything really happen to its characters. It's entire "story" takes place over a few hours and leads to a whole bunch of nothing - basically everything is in the same place as when the movie started, except for the death of 2 theorycally important characters that however get killed on the premise they're not important at all, and the fact that both the FO and the Resistance now have lost a crapton of ships.
It's a story that could have been told in the movie's crawl (The first order and the Resistance clash after the destruction of the republic home worlds and starkiller base, but the FO's military proves to be too strong for the Resistance, who's down to a few ships and on the verge of destruction - done) and that would be fine if the movie was instead filled of great character moments and development and strong dialogue and performances.
But instead it's a movie that manages to waste time on globetrotting and introducing new character after new character without letting anyone have a moment or a good interaction. The biggest problems with Luke are what happen before Rey leaves Achtoo. What could have been fantastic interaction between two charismatic characters is reduced to a couple squabbles and a stick fight. Adam Driver gets to act and have some actual dialogues but his "character moments" probably sum up to less minutes than the little Canto Bright escapade does.
I think the only real complaint I had with what was in the movie (versus what I wanted to have happen) was that I found the whole thing with Poe in the beginning really confusing. He did end up getting their bombers wiped out, which is really bad and probably deserving of a demotion, but at the same time, wouldn't they have been destroyed by that ship he blew up? That was the only ship that could have hit them from long range. His recklessness hurt their numbers but it was also kinda the reason their asses survived lol.
Why not? They clearly do business there, and the officers probably take shore leave there too, and either way they probably get really drunk while they do it. So they're stumbling around the race track talking about that crazy ass shit that just went down and the kid overhears them.
Or a lot of other possible scenarios.
Shit, maybe the resistance got a recording of it and spread it on the holonet.
I'm not a shipper at all but the build up and pay off of these two finally reuniting made my heart melt like butter.
You can tell they wanted to film some more scenes together lol. They both have great chemistry.
The movie absolutely would have benefitted from being more about Finn, Rey, Poe and Rose being a space crew for the Falcon having adventures while bringing Luke back to Leia instead of being so much about Holdo and 3rd grade lessons about respecting authority and space horses. Carrie Fisher said "Star Wars is about family". RJ didn't really get the memo, because he did everything he could to split up that family as much as possible.
Yeah. I remember seeing the movie for the first time and loving Rey and Poe finally meeting each other at the end... and then I blinked and suddenly realized we were two movies into a trilogy and two of the main characters hadn't even met yet. I'm hoping they are going to give us a great big timeskip between Last Jedi and the next.
It's a fairly big plot hole.
Poe is lambasted for risking lives and people to take out a super dangerous ship. If he didn't that super dangerous ship would have fried the Resistance fleet after the first hyperspace jump. That neither Leia or Poe or Holdo acknowledge it is bizzarre, but honestly it's how the whole movie works. Stuff happens and if you want it to make sense you're a loser. You can imagine that in Bruce Willis' voice if it helps.
Huh? It's speculated by Han himself in the movie that Luke went looking for the first Jedi temple.
Its not a plot hole. They had no reason to believe that they would have followed them through hyperspace, because to their knowledge that wasn't even possible.
Hindsight is 20/20
Well imo the scene is shot just fine. The first time I saw it was a little weird, just cause everything about it was so surprising (the bridges destruction and her method of survival both), but that doesn't mean i was bad or poorly executed, if anything it's quite the opposit. It's one of my favorite scenes because it's so unexpected and different. Risky.
I also disagree with this whole argument that the movie is pointless, which I see a lot. It's about character development, not galactic development. Just like the universal agreed best SW movie, Empire, a movie in which all that happens is the rebellion is almost destroyed and then the main characters spend the rest of the movie either running away or training in seclusion, and both tracks ultimately end in failure.
So any argument that TLJ is pointless must acknowledge then that Empire was also pointless by the same standards.
Does anyone else feel that for all the film tried to be different, it was still remarkably similar to ESB in many ways when you consider the structure/broad strokes of the plot? For example, the film begins with a "rebel" evacuation under attack from the "empire". From this, many of the protagonists then spend the rest of the film engaged in an ongoing escape from the "empire". Meanwhile, the Jedi protagonist recieves training from a more experienced master, but abandons their training before they have finished it in order to confront the antagonist and help their friends.
Obviously, the execution is different but the canto bight sidequest aside, the films are surprisingly similar. It felt to me like it was not so much doing different things but doing the same things differently.
My number one issue with the film though, and I could be proven wrong with this with 9, is that the feeling I got after TFA was that in spite of the film's similarity to ANH, the seeds were there for the story to go in a new direction. The seeds may not have been the most interesting (who's snoke, what's up with Luke, what's Rey's background, etc), but they obviously facilitated debate and we all wanted to see where it went next.
TLJ tries to deliver upon that, but its response to all the seeds is that they basically don't matter at all, and then in spite of the film attempting to be different all the way through, by expunging these plot lines it ends up, in contrast to TFA, in a place where the only place I can see it going is somewhere it's gone before. There's no real questions I have any more - it's just going to be people hitting each other with lightsabers, some kind of obligatory super weapon, a trench run and the good guys winning.
Obviously the original trilogy didn't need those questions as it our first time seeing that story. But without any real mysteries or anything going forward, I can't really see anywhere to go for the story that isn't just retreating old ground. And at that point, all that's left is the execution, really. And in TLJ, I thought that left a lot to be desired - particularly the first 40 minute of the film, I thought they were just really off in terms of the editing and direction.
Time will tell I guess.
Obviously, the execution is different but the canto bight sidequest aside, the films are surprisingly similar. It felt to me like it was not so much doing different things but doing the same things differently.
My number one issue with the film though, and I could be proven wrong with this with 9, is that the feeling I got after TFA was that in spite of the film's similarity to ANH, the seeds were there for the story to go in a new direction. The seeds may not have been the most interesting (who's snoke, what's up with Luke, what's Rey's background, etc), but they obviously facilitated debate and we all wanted to see where it went next.
TLJ tries to deliver upon that, but its response to all the seeds is that they basically don't matter at all, and then in spite of the film attempting to be different all the way through, by expunging these plot lines it ends up, in contrast to TFA, in a place where the only place I can see it going is somewhere it's gone before. There's no real questions I have any more - it's just going to be people hitting each other with lightsabers, some kind of obligatory super weapon, a trench run and the good guys winning.
Obviously the original trilogy didn't need those questions as it our first time seeing that story. But without any real mysteries or anything going forward, I can't really see anywhere to go for the story that isn't just retreating old ground. And at that point, all that's left is the execution, really. And in TLJ, I thought that left a lot to be desired - particularly the first 40 minute of the film, I thought they were just really off in terms of the editing and direction.
Time will tell I guess.
OP
OP
I mean said like that, any movie could be summed up in a crawl!
ANH: farmboy get plans to secret weapon and blows it up.
Speed: Bomb on bus. Stay above 50.
Fury Road: A group of people go somewhere. They then turn around and go back.
The problem is also that Leia was never shown to have been force sensitive or use it in any way, shape or form anywhere else over the course of her entire screentime, except for this one moment where she pulls off a rather impressive feat using it. Worse yet, it isnt even mentioned later and no one seems to mind or care that she just survived the vacuum of space, or used the force, seemingly out of nowhere, as if this is something that happens often, yet we never actually saw. One dude saying "did Leia just use the force?" could have been something, heck you could even have someone reply "well she is a Skywalker" to cover all your bases (and make a cheeky joke), but as is its just weird.
Also the scene just looks awkward.
Die.
Or, not have the scene in the first place, if you needed her injured and out of comission for the Holdo subplot you could have done it in a million other ways.
It's just the execution for me. I see what they were going for but it's just so silly. I think it would have been better as a subconscious act on her part, either after being spaced while she was dying or as it happened, a moment of extreme trauma brings out powers we/she never knew she had.
The superman flying through space is just eye rolling for me.
Leia was shown as being Force sensitive in Empire Strikes Back when she sensed Luke against all odds.
Not to mention Luke explicitly telling her that she "has that power too."
I'd read that scene more along the lines of Vader talking to Luke though. She's obviously force sensitive, but she's not using it. I see it more as "experienced force user able to communicate with another person who is force sensitive". Regardless of what she's doing here though, it's a million miles away from what she pulss off in TLJ. Which I'd still be fine with if it didn't look so bloody silly while she's doing it.
This is why the methodology is flawed. You need ranked choice voting to really draw any conclusions from this type of question. For all we know, everyone who voted for ESB would have ANH as their 2nd favorite film.
OP
OP
Now this I forgot about somehow, it does explain some things.Leia was shown as being Force sensitive in Empire Strikes Back when she sensed Luke against all odds.
Not to mention Luke explicitly telling her that she "has that power too."
We already knew she's force sensitive. That was established in the OT.
We all know she used the force to survive. We don't need exposition to explain that.
Idk why the scene looks awkward but that's subjective so whatever.
"Could have done it another way" is substanceless armchair directing.
If Luke, or even Kylo had done it, nobody would question it. It's the fuckin force. But Leia isn't a man, so, yeah... Remember when Luke destroyed the Death Star the first time he ever flew a star fighter, one day after learning the force even existed? But hey he wasn't holding his breath for a few minutes so I guess it makes perfect sense. And god forbid Rey had done it, with all the Mary Sue shit she already gets.
Homestly, who cares. A sizeable portion of people like the film enough to list it as their favorite. You don't need people ranking the entire franchise to know that "hey many people enjoy this film even if I don't". You don't need the opinions of others to validate your own.
this was pretty much how I felt about it. I like the concepts of the galactic elite riding high on war profiteering, the casino resort in general, Finn learning that refusing to pick sides will eventually turn him into a jerk, and Poe learning that betting on plot armor is a stupid career plan, but nothing in that list was really enjoyable for me as I viewed it. I haven't done a re-watch to try and analyze why I felt that way. though. maybe it was the blistering slow-speed chase? it was supposed to be suspenseful but just didn't work for me at all.
i need to watch it with the cut finn scenes restored one day and see if that makes me like his arc with rose more. maybe his one-liners will feel less annoying if they gave him enough extra substantial dialogue.
but shoot, even if the film had ended with Poe court-martialed and executed for being a self-centered idiot that got a heap of people killed, I don't think it would have made the process of watching Poe be awful any less annoying.
The force user stuff wasn't perfect, but it was the best part of the movie by far. only real flaw is that the message of "Rey's parents are nobodies" kinda feels undermined by the speed at which she reached chosen-one levels of incredibly powerful.
Anakins mom was a nobody.
It actually kinda confuses me when people say that TLJ establishes that force sensitivity isn't genetic, that anybody can have it. Yeah, that's always been the case, at least since the prequels. It's not surprising at all.
I didnt have any problems with the film besides Canto Bight and the boring space chase subplot. Asise from those 2, it's a great, beautifully shot film, not my favorite SW one, but it's top 5 for sure.
A friend of ours had some unreal expectations about Luke, I guess in a way we all did, but for almost a year before the film came out, he was always fanfictioning how Luke was gonna have this big battle that topped everything he did in RotJ and would fly his Xwing in the final space battle to help the Resistance. When we went to see the film he came out pissed off and disappointed.
But the more we al talked about it, how it made sense for Luke to take the path he did, we agreed the end result was cool and totally in character with what we know of both Luke and the Jedi Order, and their teachings. He was an impulsive farmboy who was always daydreaming and having visions about the what ifs, and made the same mistakes the old Jedi Order did with his father and the way their teachings and rules were to be followed. The end result was his nephew turning, his sister's and best friend's marriage/relationship crumbling, and his students dying. Of course he would become a cranky old hermit, same path Obi Wan and Yoda took after Palpatine bitch slapped the Jedi and turned the chosen one to the most feared villain in the galaxy.
At least that's how I look at it.
A friend of ours had some unreal expectations about Luke, I guess in a way we all did, but for almost a year before the film came out, he was always fanfictioning how Luke was gonna have this big battle that topped everything he did in RotJ and would fly his Xwing in the final space battle to help the Resistance. When we went to see the film he came out pissed off and disappointed.
But the more we al talked about it, how it made sense for Luke to take the path he did, we agreed the end result was cool and totally in character with what we know of both Luke and the Jedi Order, and their teachings. He was an impulsive farmboy who was always daydreaming and having visions about the what ifs, and made the same mistakes the old Jedi Order did with his father and the way their teachings and rules were to be followed. The end result was his nephew turning, his sister's and best friend's marriage/relationship crumbling, and his students dying. Of course he would become a cranky old hermit, same path Obi Wan and Yoda took after Palpatine bitch slapped the Jedi and turned the chosen one to the most feared villain in the galaxy.
At least that's how I look at it.
Do also remember Anakin has no father and was a conception of the force or something.
This is a great encapsulation of the whole film in one scene. The difference between something like TLJ and ESB is, I guess, at the end of the ESB I felt that characters had changed. Luke had trained with a great jedi master and was now capable of stuff. Han was gone, but we'd developed his relationship with Leia. Lando had joined the crew. Leia was clearly seen as force sensitive. The character moments for TLJ just don't feel as significant. Rey has trained with Luke. Great! This is one I definitely buy into. Finn is still disillusioned, but now has a girlfriend. Poe is still a cocky ass since Laura Dern's plan didn't really work. The Resistance is now even scrappier than it was before. Kylo is the main big bad now, again another good point.
Like I said above, it's mostly about whether or not the character stories worked. I think some do and some don't, more in the don't column. As for Leia in space, it just looks weird. Like they skimped on the CGI budget for that one scene or something.
Yeah. I left TFA saying, "Wow, that was great! Now just build on the new stuff instead of retreading old things!" And TLJ does a lot of retreading. Scenes feel directly copied from Empire and Return of the Jedi. The Snoke throne room scene is just the Death Star 2 confrontation. Canto Blight is just a combination of the cantina sequence and Cloud City. Benicio Del Toro is just the Lando betrayal again. The final walker attack on the base is just Hoth 2. Luke dying is similar to Yoda dying. etc etc.
Granted, I do like disillusioned Luke and the force projection battle. The latter is stunningly shot. But the major structural flaws are just frustrating. Oh, and the plot is about space cars running out of space gas.
But honestly I think they could have given her just a cooler scene. Maybe one where she even saves others by using the force.
Yeah but after they discover they could be followed through hyperspace, I would expect someone to say "Well it's bloody convenient that we destroyed that ship now or we'd all be dead!", no?
I mean this is absolutely one of the biggest problems with TLJ's writing. Everyone's apparently sitting on a high horse trying and the movie contrasts characters and events to try and prove poooooints as if the story itself was completely subservient to whatever message RJ wanted to send. But in fact this is an excellent way to undermine your message, and this is why I say the movie isn't half as smart as it thinks.
Want to portray an apparently obnoxious female officer who looks like a Disney evil queen for most of the movie to try and play into the audience's expectations that our dashing hero is never wrong and he's gonna save the day when in fact she was absolutely competent and prepared for what was coming, so that people will go "Well maybe we should stop judging books by the cover and undermine women in position of command"? Fantastic! But don't undermine her by making her take nonsensical, mustache-twirling level initiatives that have no function within the fiction and completely betray your intentions.
Another example is Rose. She's a great character played by a charming actress. She's likeable from the first time you see her and she also has a definite personality that is distinct from the other 3 leads and compliments them. And then the movie butchers her by putting her into two of the worst scenes in the movies (the "let's save slave horses and not slave kids" bit and the kiss), having her act in a way that's way dumber than the character we have been presented. None of that is acknowledged or explained.
TLJ is a movie that doesn't want to answer questions, and that's fine to a point, but in the process it abdicates to all responsabilities of internal coherency. At some point RJ goes "fuck it shit happens because I say so and if you have objections you're a loser" and the movie quickly devolves into a long series of deus ex machina and convenient events and it begs you to shut down your brain and enjoy the pretty lights because none of what happens onscreen actually holds up to scrutiny. And the movie is so blatantly transparent about it that it becomes even more annoying. The amount of inane technobabbling ("the first order has this technology we deemed impossible and we don't understand but since they're tracking us through a tracker we don't understand it means there's only one active tracker and it's on the capital ship because THE PLOT REQUIRES IT *Poe, Finn and Rose should stare in the camera here*) or overt rationalization (How does a wounded Finn drag Rose for a mile in the middle of a battlefield under the nose of a dozen imperial walkers? Weeeell, Kylo Ren said "I want all guns on Luke Skywalker" some 10 minutes after Finn and Rose actually had their crash, so I guess that's covered!) drives me nuts.
It's a movie that treats its audience like they were idiots or to the very least passive aggressively tries to play into their expectation by trying to anticipate their criticism like it was prehemptively trying to win an internet argument instead of focusing on being a movie.
Visanideth is quite right, though, regardless. You could comfortably cut everything between the first hyperspace jump to the Resistance arriving on Crait and basically nothing of value is lost from that plotline. The majority of that entire arc only existed to pad out the time between scenes with Rey, Ben and Luke in them.
It's pretty bad that the movie could have started on Crait with the important beats in the opening crawl and there'd basically be no difference. A little juggling of the script and the last twenty minutes could have been the first twenty instead.
Luke and Kylo also have the excuse of being established as skilled in using the force, but to be honest I dont think anyone could have made that scene look good the way it was shot, its just so jarring especially after the veeery long pause of showing how dead she is only to go SIKE and fly away. And again, real life does factor into this scene feeling somewhat weird, but thats personal feelings. As for Luke, making a lucky shot thanks to Obi Wan actually using the force to tell him what to do is more believable than bending laws of physics on a whim, like lets forget about breath here because its the literal least of her issues inside the cold unlivable vacuum of space.
And yea, I was already reminded that Leia was shown to be force sensitive before, so that argument of mine is no longer valid.
Now this is made for fun, but I still think that if you removed Holdo and you had Leia do the "hyperspeed shotgun" maneuver you'd have a fantastic sendoff for the character and also a lot less criticism lifted at the movie.
The entire "why doesn't everybody use hyperspace ramming?" thing would be defused by a couple lines like "Is she trying to hyperspace ram them? That's impossible, the first moments of the jump are too erratic to predict, the calculations needed would be impossible and would require actual prescience to wor.... OOOOOHHHH SHE DID IT".
Leia goes down saving the resistance and inflicting the most important defeat to the First Order AND gets to use her force powers we've all known about for 30 years in a glorious, heroic way. Leia's plot arc has always been her conflict with tyranny and her will to sacrifice all to fight for the people. What better sendoff for her?
I think we can all agree that The Last Jedi isn't a flawless film, but to me it's pros far outweigh its cons. This was the first entry in the franchise that actually felt like a proper Star Wars movie to me because while providing exciting adventures, it also returned to explore and expand upon the force as well as having a whole lot of heart to it. I felt very invested in Rey's arc, whereas Po's was interesting enough to suffice and Finn's left more to be desired. Although Canto Bight felt somewhat out of place in this movie, almost like if Han and Chewie decided to go to Six Flags in the middle of Empire, it did at least serve to help reinforce the great themes of the movie and upon a second time watching, flowed a lot better with the movie since I knew it was coming. I feel like Return of the Jedi has similar pacing flaws with some of its aspects, but people are happy to ignore those since it was one of their favorite childhood movies. The only other actually problematic part of the movie for me was Rose's final scene because all though I understood what her sentiment, the fact that her actions had it not been for Luke would have lead to the death or capture of all her friends. And yes, while some of the humor fell flat and a couple lines of dialogue were a bit awkward, they're easy enough to look over as they don't have a huge impact on story or characters. Otherwise, the movie was fantastic and undoubtedly had the best cinematography of the entire saga, it's an absolutely gorgeous film to watch, the Throne Room being a prime example. While it was a bit sad at first to see Luke in such a bad state of mind, I do feel it ultimately made for a very compelling character arc and a great sendoff. While making Luke into a stoic, legendary figure would have been much more appealing on the surface, I believe it would have lacked the depth that this depiction offered. Rey became a much better character in this and Kylo continues to be the greatest contribution that the ST had to offer to the franchise. Po had a solid b-plot arc, but Finn could have used more work.
Overall, I'd give it a 3.5/4 and say it ranks under Empire and ANH, but is better than ROTJ and the rest.
Overall, I'd give it a 3.5/4 and say it ranks under Empire and ANH, but is better than ROTJ and the rest.
I still don't consider it negligence not to tell Poe anything. He was out of the chain of command at that point with his demotion, and since the entire air wing had been destroyed, there was nothing he needed to know.
...maybe we should refilm The Last Jedi after all. That would have been awesome.
Poe held about as much rank through his actions at that point as Luke did during the Battle of Hoth. Demoted or not he was still a figurehead and they probably should've told him something knowing that they'd need his clout going forward.
Sprinkling scenes of her casually practicing with the force might've made that more believable, maybe had her levitate those dice a few times.
I really don't see how Obi-Wan breaking the laws of death and telling Luke to do it makes it any more believable or realistic. Both situations were just straight up magic. And then we can go farther back to when Anakin blew up the space station the first time he was ever flew at all. "Natural born pilot!" SW has always been full of shit that doesn't make sense when held up to any scrutiny, and it's all been easily explained away by either being an artistic/aesthetic choice, or just "the force did it."
It's really easy to tear apart all the SW movies, but it's only done selectively to justify ones predisposition. That gets really annoying.
Who cares? It's entirely unimportant, they're in a dire situation, they lost most of their crew because of Poe's reckless actions and they're still in danger. "Wow, good thing you went ahead and blew up the dreadnaught, instead of all of us being dead, only most of us are dead! We may not be able to defend ourselves and as a result will likely die just the same, but hey at least Poe feels a little better!" Is not competent writting.
This is an empty statement. Yes the movie is subservient to the message of the director, because the director is in control of the film and as a result so are all aspects of said film.
[Qoute]Want to portray an apparently obnoxious female officer who looks like a Disney evil queen for most of the movie to try and play into the audience's expectations that our dashing hero is never wrong and he's gonna save the day when in fact she was absolutely competent and prepared for what was coming, so that people will go "Well maybe we should stop judging books by the cover and undermine women in position of command"? Fantastic! But don't undermine her by making her take nonsensical, mustache-twirling level initiatives that have no function within the fiction and completely betray your intentions.[/quote]
While I find some of this statement to be questionable. I don't disagree that they way this section of the film was delivered was clunky. But come on, really? Mustache twirling initiatives that have no function within the fiction and betray your intentions?
Holdo was right to withhold information from Poe. The entire point of withholding information is so that it doesn't leak and jeprodize the plan. Poe disobeyed orders, had Finn and Rose go out, grab some random guy, accidentally leaked sensitive information and jeprodized the mission because their codebreaker overheard the plan defected to the first order, once again leading to more casualties. Had poe done what he was told and sat tight things would have went off fine. Its only because Poe disobeyed orders that Holdo had to ram the supremacy. And its only because the supremacy had their shields down at the time that the hyperspace ram even worked. She took advantage of an unlikely situation, its a plot convenience, but it doesn't "betray" the fiction. Pretty much all ships are going to have their shields up at all times, if you try to hyperspace ram a shielded ship youre going to get fucked.
Could the dialogue have been better between the two? Yes but give me a break with the hyperbolic nonsense.
How were Rose and Finn supposed to save the kids? They're on a secret mission that they're not even supposed to be on in the first place, in an unfamiliar land, now without a ship and on a time limit. At least the Faltheirs are animals that belong in the wild. Its not like they could have just set the kids free to run out through the bushes and eventually die of starvation or take them to the nearest daycare (on a casino planet for arms dealers) and even if they did have a ship with enough space to carry all of them you wanted Finn and Rose to what, show up with 10 kids in an active warzone where they're already at a massive disadvantage, slowly being picked off when they weren't supposed to leave the ship in the first place? What's to acknowledge? At the very least if they survive they can come back to them, if they brought them along that's asking for death.
Star Wars is literally based around space magic and wizards and has been inconsistent since day one and this is where you decide to complain about Deus Ex Machina's? Despite there at best, being 1 (the hyperspace ram).
Yes, things happen because the writer/director wants them to, that's how films work, it isn't a doccumentary on the very real life of Luke Skywalker and co.
The inane technobabbling is called exposition, where the writer wants to convey what's going on and why to the audience through the characters, given that: Star Wars isn't real nor are most of its technologies it's not going to be a lesson in astromechanics. It's "This is the problem, this its why its happening, here is how we fix it". That's how movies work. And yes, plot conveniences are a thing, in this film and every other one, its a method to get the plot moving forward in the intended direction rather than worrying about the technicalities, because at the end of the day, its a fictional story.
Sure I can agree that having Finn drag Rose all the way back to the base was pretty silly, but ultimately, it's a plot convenience and it doesn't matter, it isn't breaking anything nor is it an important plot point. Characters got from point A to B, here's the excuse as to why. End of.
Ultimately I don't expect to change your opinion on the film and I by no means am trying to say that the film can't be criticised, but these criticism's are less criticisms and more nitpicks and holding the film to unrealistic standards. For as much as you say the film doesn't put much or any thought into what it's doing it more so looks like you watched the film and had a bunch of knee jerk reactions without putting any actual critical thought into why things happened the way they did.
Well, Anakin did have some training thanks to podracing, but honestly ye its all dumb, especially the prequels.
But, this is a Last Jedi thread so I try to focus my attention on that, even when the series done way dumber stuff.
That's very cool but Leia and Luke together on screen was so good. Who knows, maybe her send off was for IX.
This is an extremely lazy and reductive view of storytelling.
It was bad as a followup to TFA IMO.
I liked the characters that move set up but in TLJ they just seemed to take them all in directions that seemed real inconstant with that first movie.
Luke dying seemed super inevitable tho. Him playing that Obi Wan role was the most obvious fanfic thing for the new movies.
Rey being a nobody also was a thing I expected but it just felt tossed off here. Like spending a long time wondering who she was and then in the final movie its revealed she is no one because it doesnt matter who your parents are because you decide if you are good or evil would have been how I handled it and it would have contrasted Kylo's Vader/solo boner
The overall story felt pretty flat outside of a few beats. Reminds me of a OK mid season finale and not the big season closer of a TV show.
Curious how JJ handles Episode 9 and how it works in a overall trilogy with a start, middle and end with that start and end made by the same guy and the middle made by some random person Disney found on the street
I liked the characters that move set up but in TLJ they just seemed to take them all in directions that seemed real inconstant with that first movie.
Luke dying seemed super inevitable tho. Him playing that Obi Wan role was the most obvious fanfic thing for the new movies.
Rey being a nobody also was a thing I expected but it just felt tossed off here. Like spending a long time wondering who she was and then in the final movie its revealed she is no one because it doesnt matter who your parents are because you decide if you are good or evil would have been how I handled it and it would have contrasted Kylo's Vader/solo boner
The overall story felt pretty flat outside of a few beats. Reminds me of a OK mid season finale and not the big season closer of a TV show.
Curious how JJ handles Episode 9 and how it works in a overall trilogy with a start, middle and end with that start and end made by the same guy and the middle made by some random person Disney found on the street
The person telling the story decides "I want this, this and this to happen and for things ultimately to end up here" and decides to craft their story around how they want things to haplen or think things should happen. Is it reductive? Sure, I wasn't going to type out another paragraph about the intricacies of story telling. Is it lazy? No more lazy than saying "this is a lazy and reductive view of storytelling" without actually making an effort to state how and where I'm wrong or extrapolate further. Its essentially going "no, you're wrong" in a debate and leaving it at that. Whether or not its reductive is ultimately irrelevant in the overarching point.
To complain that a storyteller is telling the story they want to tell is silly, ultimately its their story to tell and they have the creative freedom to do so and are under no burden to do it to please others.