The Last Of Us Part 2 Gameplay Reveal

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,228
Tilburg
I don't think that's the point he's trying to make.

Ellie being lesbian is fine. Lesbians aren't over-represented for sure, and honestly would absolutely need to be represented past the stereotype butch lesbian model of gruff badass with a foul mouth. And Ellie will be a good vehicle for that because despite being a badass and all she's a very nuanced, textured character.
I'm super glad ND is going pedal to the metal with this.

But at the same time I can absolutely see heterosexual women feeling like they drew the short end of the stick. The industry has basically leapfrogged them, and you can count the games that allow you to play a female protagonist that isn't either fundamentally a-sexual or a lesbian on one hand.

I think part of the problem depends on the fact that most game developers are male and guy tend to think lesbian are somehow more relatable than straight women. A lesbian is (supposedly) easier to write because you can try and fall back on things you know, and even if you screw up, aren't they kind of weirdos anyways? It's as if being into men undermined the heroic value of the character, because if she's the "strong one" in the couple than the man is necessarily a "wimp". Make her lesbian, and you can give her a damsel in distress, and basically write her as a guy!
It's not pretty but it's not entirely wrong. It's not an issue with TLOU (ND is definitely above suspicion) but with the medium at large.
The problem I have with the message of the other user is that he says women with certain traits are almost always lesbians in games. The thing with Ellie is that she was already a lesbian before she had most of these so called lesbian traits. She wasn't that tough in the original. It's also not weird that women become reay tough in this worls, because they also hsve to fight and survive.

I know there is a problem in the industry concerning sexuality of women, but that's not the case here imo.
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,205
The gameplay looked absolutely mental, but I think a lot of it had to do with how they "showed" the scenario. Just like with the first game, the game will just not play out for most players like it did in the trailer. It never does of course, but I feel like a lot of the amazing stuff they showed here was highly dependant on it being played like an E3 demo.

That being said, I'm moreso excited to see the multiplayer here. Is it still planned? The first game was a happy surprise in terms of the multiplayer and the gameplay just clicked in that mode. Hoping the same for Part II.
 

MONSTER

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
I don't think there's anything wrong with Ellie being a lesbian. The DLC is one of the most heartwarming stories in gaming.

The problem is the way it's being used for marketing purposes. Feels like 'hey look geeks two girls kissing!' when Ellie was very much a real, fleshed out character in the first game.

I also think it strays dangerously close to playing up the 'butch lesbian' stereotype, where you have to be gay as a woman to survive in a brutal world with men.

Like I said, I think in the main game this scene will be fine. I just think it's been misused in the marketing.
would you have said the same thing if Ellie was straight and they flaunted a straight sexuality in the trailer?
 

BoJack

Member
Apr 4, 2018
1,918
It's like we've seen the next generation already! Just look at the Tomb Raider gameplay trailer. That was also a stealth mission in a forest I think. That's good tho, but the difference is insane!
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,984
Right, I absolutely agree in regards to how WE have the option to choose HOW to play. But then I watch the gameplay loop and the problem of horrible AI still exists, so I feel like I'm not earning any of it. I counted a few times where Ellie made a loud noise or came in plain sight of the baddies, and...nothing.

I'm being hard on it, I know, and I should just drop out of the conversation after this since I'm admittedly not of fan of it, but I'm hoping and voicing that one day we see ND lean harder that way in future installments.
Actually this is my criticism of stealth in general and its unfortunate that naughty dog employs the same mechanics literally seen in just about every other game with stealth

Enemies circulate a route, you hide in grass.

Enemies are aware of your existence so they split up or foolishly play a game of hide and seek. They get picked off one by one. Literally looks like when youd play with your dad and he pretends to not know where you are

Its definitely awful and pulls me out of the experience
 

dyst

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,461
Awe Ellie is not a cute little girl anymore. It’s like when your kid grows up and is becoming an adult. I love when games do that.
 

Bunta

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,243
Maybe I'm crazy, but re-watching the video, and the music during combat is giving me MGS1 vibes.
 

Skinny Pete

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,444
Looks phenomenal. The enemy AI looks pretty damn sophisticated as well. My only question is were are all of the infected?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,101
Yeah that looked pretty good.

But I am not sure why but the tent scene looks kinda unfinished. The character model quality there seems a step down from Uncharted 4.

The actual gameplay looked better than the cinematic, which is weird to me.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
You know, I'm curious. Just for fun. How many of you killed the doctors that were in the operating room w/ Ellie in TLOU?
I didn't.

Even tried to avoid killing the one with the scalpel. Tried firing over his head. (He flinches but stands his ground.) Eventually settled for shooting him in the foot. The game didn't allow for that possibility though, so he went down like he'd been shot in the head.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,447
In terms of stealth, yes, in terms of gunplay (vs TLOU) no, and in terms of mobility and verticality (vs UC) also no. They all excel in different areas.
What? You can't even crouch in UC on command, let alone go prone like in MGSV.

I enjoyed TLOU a great deal (UC4 considerably less), but for my money MGSV still has the absolute best TPS mechanics of any game.
 

Kinggroin

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,827
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
In the Last of Us the violence and even the "homicidal" traits are very coherent in my view.

In a world like The Last of Us, people who are unable to kill other people simply have no agency - they're either dead or abused by the authoritharian government. The only way you can survive is to give your freedom to the government, or learn how to defend yourself from the human and inhuman threats of that world.

The first game had Ellie learning those things, specially in the David scene, which was clearly traumatizing to her and a watersheding point. She was not the same at that moment and learned how tough and cruel you must be to survive in that world.

So yeah, it's a pretty violent place, but it's truly justifiable in my view.

Hmmm, I think perhaps I wasn't clear.

I have no issue with the violence quantity or it's context or reason for existing. My main gripe comes from execution taking away the power of this contextual violence. The Last of Us ISN'T parody. It's a wholey serious game. But the ease at which you're able to compete with the black plague in death toll makes the entire thing broken in my eyes. I don't wanna feel like I can win every encounter by sneaking off just before the white indicator line disappears (over and over again). I don't want a character that can withstand more punishment than a Nintendo fan on E3 day (love y'all). I want to feel like killing a bad guy is the very last resort, and that stealth is earned -- not gifted.

I'm also asking way too much. Haha. At the end of the day, it's a videogame, and so it's cinematic qualities will suffer in order to provide gamers with a fantasy power trip of some kind.
 

SmokingBun

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,091
You know who exactly needs more representation? Butch lesbians. Yes, we already fucking know that not all lesbians are butches, but they DO exist and it’s a right shame that they haven’t been any significant portrayals in the media outside of your usual femme or occasional-tomboy lesbian / queer woman. As part of the LGBT community, it certainly feels like butches are shafted most of the time because of the need to appease to the straight male gaze AND audience. It’s infuriating, but, as a queer woman, I just take what I can get.

I’m extremely happy about the fact that Ellie is represented as a soft butch lesbian. It’s a fucking achievement in an industry that panders too often to the straight male gaze, especially in regards to representation of lesbians and bisexuals. The LGBT community will just let you know when a ‘stereotype’ is harmful (and oh how we do); in the meantime we’ll be just right here celebrating Ellie’s gloriously super gay, button-down, flannel-wearing, tattooed ass. I wish she completed the look by wearing Doc Martens, but anyway.
I see your point and yeah; representation is representation
Butch lesbians have been portrayed negatively when they have been, so I suppose a more heroic portrayal was way past due
And yeah, I do get the problem of having representation but then making sure it still appeals to straights

On a lighter note, pick up truck or Subaru for Ellie? lol
 

Tofer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,851
I absolutely love the shooting in TLoU. Super weighty with every bullet feeling like it’s going to end you. Easily the best gunplay in a TPS. Can’t wait to play this game on hard. Hopefully the resources are as limited as the first game.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,262
I was actually really surprised by how good the kiss was if I'm honest.

I mean in a technical sense I thought the lip placements, motions and sound made for the most realistic kiss I have seen in a game. One that didn't just look like two character models pressing their lips together with clipping.

Can't believe the blatant homophobia by some of the comments I have seen here, not surprising to see it happen but in how clear it is. I figured the 'pushing the agenda' card was too obvious for people to use anymore.
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Hot take about some small thing in the video

Is the glass with the female character face that Ellie gets thrown into in the women's beauty store just a nod to savage starlight as an ongoing naughty dog meme or is it a hint of what's to come for next gen? Hmmmm
 

Rozart

Member
Oct 28, 2017
697
Murdered. Joel couldn't let them live.
I had no idea I had a choice, so they got slaughtered.
Interesting. I went in the room-- gun at the ready, realised that they weren't attacking me; so, I put my gun away. Killed the doctor who tried to attack me with scalpel when I approached Ellie and left the rest alive.

100% of people, since you can’t leave without killing them if I’m not mistaken. I remember just walking and Joel would automatically kill the doctor pointing at him with the scalpel
There's one doctor who tries to attack you-- thus prompting an instant kill but you can leave the rest alive.

I didn't.

Even tried to avoid killing the one with the scalpel. Tried firing over his head. (He flinches but stands his ground.) Eventually settled for shooting him in the foot. The game didn't allow for that possibility though, so he went down like he'd been shot in the head.
Same here! Well apart from trying my best not to attack the first guy.
 
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Rosebud

Member
Apr 16, 2018
8,778
I like the idea of representing death/violence as a uncomfortable and hard thing to do. Opposite to Uncharted that is like "kill 50 enemies with every weapon to gain trophies!!" and it's fun.

But I also think would be nice to have the option to turn the "gore" off, so everyone can play.
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Sony got burned by fans and press for constantly delaying games, so now they do the opposite and hold off announcing the date until they know for sure they'll make it. The Last of Us II may just be a winter 2019 game at this point in their eyes, but don't want to say anything in case.
Yea I think it can land anywhere from March to November hopefully October or earlier

I can't see earlier than March though
 

eightg4

Member
Oct 31, 2017
125
Paris, France
I absolutely love the shooting in TLoU. Super weighty with every bullet feeling like it’s going to end you. Easily the best gunplay in a TPS. Can’t wait to play this game on hard. Hopefully the resources are as limited as the first game.
YEah agree, loved that. Hope they keep this balance, didnt always liked in normal or hard Uncharted always kind of needed more than 2 or 3 bullet to finish that guy :)
 

N2B

Member
Oct 27, 2017
37
Eh, I have seen these mechanics with these grassy layouts in plenty of games, I really don’t know what’s amazing there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,101
I was wondering how this game would handle companions considering GOW raised the bar with Atreus and if ND was going to have one again, they'd have to step it up.

I guess removing them was the choice they made.
 

Gonzalo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
316
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility + Inflammatory Commentary; previous infractions
It's annoying that my youtube dislike etc will be taken as a bigoted vote against the kiss when really I'm just appauled by Druckmann and his horrific psychopath libertarian violence he's pushing on to millions of Playstationers. What a nasty piece of shit that man is.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,897
I like the idea of representing death/violence as a uncomfortable and hard thing to do. Opposite to Uncharted that is like "kill 50 enemies with every weapon to gain trophies!!" and it's fun.

But I also think would be nice to have the option to turn the "gore" off, so everyone can play.
All the gore is "optional",just shoot in the body or head and will be like every game,that final for example is a finish,like the first game,you could just finish with another shoot or a punch.
 

ShiftyHermit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
369
Everything was well done. You can easily see that the combat is a step above what was in the original, and the acting during the dance was phenomenal. Ellie being super surprised to being kissed, and then really happy it happened afterwards.

I love what Naughty Dog does in their games. Wooo, this is going to be amazing.
 

Tofer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,851
It's annoying that my youtube dislike etc will be taken as a bigoted vote against the kiss when really I'm just appauled by Druckmann and his horrific psychopath libertarian violence he's pushing on to millions of Playstationers. What a nasty piece of shit that man is.
Well both reasons are garbage so they belong together
 

Rixan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
530
It's annoying that my youtube dislike etc will be taken as a bigoted vote against the kiss when really I'm just appauled by Druckmann and his horrific psychopath libertarian violence he's pushing on to millions of Playstationers. What a nasty piece of shit that man is.
why are you personally attacking a creator for his artistic vision?

violence is completely within context of this world, and it's not glorified for an arbitrary "cool" factor, its there to highlight the horror of TLOU

my god, some of the takes on this forum are mind bending