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Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Sounds good to me, but execution is what is really important so we will see how they deliver this story.

Changing MC during a game is always fun, and you know during the first game you kill a ton of people so it's not even strange that some of them want Ellie's head.

I'm more interested in the fungi pandemic though, human drama is going to be the main focus of course but I felt that the first game didn't explain enough about the malicious fungi, so I hope Part II has good development on this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I think TLOU works because it has the balls to go beyond something like saving the world. See my post above. Ellie being immune is essentially one of the biggest red herrings in gaming if they pull this off. It was always about the humans involved. Where notions like saving the world are treated as delusions of grandeur.

The Last of Us doesn't really have a vision for the world or a vision for... anything in the first game.

Saving the world at least has the vision of "the existing world is better than the death of all people"

Whereas if Abby crushes Ellie's head with a 2x4... Not really any momentum towards any sort of vision about society or people.

Nier Gestalt is about how even good people can do terrible things with bad information and how good people can ignore the potential horror suggested by ambiguous information.

The Last of Us is about the first incurable disease killing off almost everyone except the non-psychopaths and those guys shooting at each other for a while.

Would have been interesting to see a Last of Us 2 where Ellie sacrifices herself to create a vaccine, then a Last of Us 3 where society actually comes back together and how the psychopaths try to preserve their hell world... Then again, the only piece of zombie fiction that defeated the zombies entirely transformed into something very weird.
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,376
Eh, I think the average person that played the first game is probably not going to take too well to Joel dying in possibly such a brutal fashion.
Thank god that "average person" has a million other things they can play. I am glad that a big studio is making some sort of leap outside of the usual cookie cutter bullshit that the average person consumes over a couple of hours and forgets about completely. This story leak just turned my hype meter up. Then again I think that video game storytelling has needed a shake up for a long time so I welcome things like this with open arms.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
The Last of Us doesn't really have a vision for the world or a vision for... anything in the first game.

Saving the world at least has the vision of "the existing world is better than the death of all people"

Whereas if Abby crushes Ellie's head with a 2x4... Not really any momentum towards any sort of vision about society or people.
If say, Abby kills Ellie, that's just continuing a cycle. It eventually becomes about breaking the cycle, how does this cycle break, can it break? This is constantly happening every day to everyone unfortunate enough to live outside of an oppressive safe zone. OR, maybe it won't, Dina doesn't seem like the type to pursue revenge for revenge's sake. She's resigned herself to just dealing with all the shit that affects her. It really raises a lot of questions about the cycle of violence. This game will be discussed long into next gen. One of my favorite pieces of modern media atm is The Dragon Prince, and it's specifically about the subjects that TLOU2 aims to tackle, albeit for a younger audience.
medium.com

Cycle Of Revenge: What Those In Power Can Learn From ‘The Dragon Prince’

Often, the younger generation presents a perfect solution. But the problem with adulthood is the delusion of wisdom.

Even the question of, "how could this cycle have been prevented in the first place" is an interesting one. It recontextualizes the entire conversation about whether or not Joel should've killed everyone to save Ellie. It turns that into a much larger conversation about violence against our fellow man overall. Neil didn't want to write a sequel until he came up with something compelling and it's only natural he ended up at something like this. He started with, "what if x happened?" Something way bolder than what ND has ever been comfortable doing.
 
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ReyHabeas

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
47
Perhaps Bill was right all along...
giphy.gif
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,395
I know this might be off topic but its kind of drastic of the meltdown of these leaks (which shows the anticipation) compared to no outcry of the leak of Gears Tactics (which has all cutscenes posted on YouTube)

Gears Tactics is not a mainline game nor does it have any of the main characters from the series.

Most narratives in general don't switch perspectives to such a degree.

Correct. To a certain extent I am fine with it in TLOU but I couldn't bear the thought of playing as Kratos' killer.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,711
I guess I'm a little underwhelmed. Revenge? "your actions have consequnces"?.. I mean, all of this was already implied BEAUTIFULLY by the ending of the first game. It was such a perfect, understated way of ending the game. I aboslutely loved how the game subverted player expectations by, instead of saving humanity (who were generally portrayed as incredibly cynical, hopeless, depraved) you just take Ellie for selifsh reason with no regard for whoever tries to stop you, and then lie about it. That ending was incredibly brilliant and already drove home the point that Joel isn't really much different from the random goons you come across and kill without any consideration.

This is why I wasn't really hyped for a sequel in the first place because there wasn't really anywhere else to take the story with these characters.
Like, from what it sounds like, even when you take control of a different character you just fall into the same cycle of revenge.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,315
The Stussining
Everyone in here be hating on the ending with Ellie and Abby fighting. But you know what? When Ellie puts on her running shoes and starts jogging towards the final fight and Abby comes up next to her on her wheelies and starts saying.

Abby: "You never cease to surprise me green jacket."
Ellie: "You know what can I say? I die hard. You actually saved me you know?"
Abby: "So that was a fake out death wasn't it? but I don't understand only time travel or retcons can undo a death.. what are you?"
Ellie: "heh what you see is what you get just a girl that loves adventure".

*Cue title screen drop for the second half of campaign

rwubwON.jpg
 

richyque

Member
Apr 27, 2020
6
Reading all these spoilers, ill just watch this unfold on youtube and wait for it to go on sale for like $20.00. If it was released in late february like originally i would of paid full price.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,999
I don't really care about cinematic games but I have played all the ND games and damn that story is nuts. I hope that people don't get spoiled before it comes out.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
If say, Abby kills Ellie, that's just continuing a cycle. It eventall becomes about breaking the cycle, how does this cycle break, can it break? This is constantly happening every day to everyone unfortunate enough to live outside of an oppressive safe zone.

Okay so, yes... That's not a very interesting take on society.

No one acted like how Joel acts during the era when we had constant, incurable disease. Smallpox and the plague and influenza and polio and the measles and so forth. Millions of people die horribly every year in Africa from malaria and TB and almost no one acts how anyone acts in the Last of Us.

The Last of Us is obviously not supposed to be realistic and has super exaggerated characters compared to real life. But it's difficult to say what ND is trying to say that is interesting if Abby splatters Ellie's grey matter over the pavement. "In our world where we made basically everyone violent killers, people killing people leads to friends of the killed people killing the killers."

I don't really know what Druckmann's vision is for what The Last of Us is exactly supposed to say. We will see what this game does, but I hope it doesn't go into the "cycle of violence!" stuff as that just doesn't ring true as they purposefully made their world be filled with far more violent people than at any real point in human history.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,267
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
I guess I'm a little underwhelmed. Revenge? "your actions have consequnces"?.. I mean, all of this was already implied BEAUTIFULLY by the ending of the first game. It was such a perfect, understated way of ending the game. I aboslutely loved how the game subverted player expectations by, instead of saving humanity (who were generally portrayed as incredibly cynical, hopeless, depraved) you just take Ellie for selifsh reason with no regard for whoever tries to stop you, and then lie about it. That ending was incredibly brilliant and already drove home the point that Joel isn't really much different from the random goons you come across and kill without any consideration.

This is why I wasn't really hyped for a sequel in the first place because there wasn't really anywhere else to take the story with these characters.
Like, from what it sounds like, even when you take control of a different character you just fall into the same cycle of revenge.
I heavily disagree with regards to Ellie's story being finished. There is plenty to do with her but I always agreed that Joel's story was finished. The first game was Joel's arc, while this will finish Ellie's. Though apparently not in any way that I wanted. :\
 

Gush

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,096
You know, it's arguable that so many people describing a person Joel murdered in cold blood as a nameless npc is why we needed a story like this in the first place. TLOU aims to present a world that feels quite human, even if it's stylized stakes that we as people can empathize with are on full display. And on more than one occasion, whether through npc dialogue or a character like David, it's explicitly pointed out that we are NOT just killing npcs ala Call of Duty or Battlefield. Every person killed is related to someone else, has friends, wants, needs, agency etc. even if WE, as an agressor or defender don't personally know the people we are killing. In the same way that we don't think "wow, every person I pass on the street has their own lives, families, wants, etc." What better way to emphasize that but to have someone who's state of life was ruined by Joel, come back and kill him? When he nearly ALREADY lost Ellie just five years prior for the same reason. It's a very confrontational way to tackle a narrative. And it doesn't stop and end at the story itself. It's ingrained in the design of the game. You aren't supposed to feel dopamine while killing people. People being the operative word. At the end of the day it's still a video game and there are limitations because of design goals, (i.e., things will feel fun because it's a AAA video game, meaning you can craft an arrow with an explosive that makes people literally explode), but they absolutely want you to at least feel that you are killing people.


THEME:Every kill=another potential Abby who'd hunt and kill Ellie years later

. Every npc has a name, they react to you killing their friends, their DOGS, their dogs react to you killing their owners and vice versa:





I genuinely can't see how this isn't compelling stuff. There are surface level similarities with other games, (Nier), but no one has really attempted this level of humanization in games to prove a point. Especially not in the AAA sphere and ESPECIALLY not the guys behind uncharted:

682802964_8cjvu-l-4ea4455-intro.jpg



Just the premise of this concept feels so much more compelling than Uncharted 4. Where nothing of consequence ever happens to Nathan, Sam, or anyone else they care about. They straightforwardly beat the bad guys. They make mistakes and experience zero consequences. Where Nathan is revealed to have at some point learned that he is the son of one of the greatest modern explorers ever and Nathan ends the tale with infinite riches and a private island.


I hope everything i've said has alleviated some concerns about how this can be interesting. There's still some things left up in the air, (the leaker who said Ellie dies apparently said that Jesse lives, that is not the case and raises suspicion that there is some FUD in their leak).

Great post. I completely agree
 

ReyHabeas

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
47
Eh... I'm not too sure what to make of all the spoilers. I'm skeptical all the while trying to keep an open mind.
At first glance I didn't like the whole idea of playing as the enemy against the main protagonist. We know Ellie more than we will ever know this antagonist. Diehard fans will always choose Ellie over her, so I didn't see the use in playing as her. Although getting to see the human side of our enemies does seem intriguing, especially if executed properly. This makes it much more personal to who we're slashing and gashing.

Ive come to a conclusion that I will try not to draw any judgement from these spoilers until I play the game itself. As a fan of the first one, if I "played" it by watching 20 minutes worth of random clips, out of order, of random scenes of the game, I would probably think its all shit. But that's not the way to play it, and that's exactly what is happening with Part 2 right now. This game is upwards 30hours long and we're thinking we know the whole thing by watching a couple clips that look like they're from a beta build.

I'll wait to play it before deciding whether I like it or not, I think that much is fair.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
As a Lesbian I really hope that Ellie lives if only for representation, and how important she is to the community.

That said if Abby is apart of the community I also hope she can somehow live too and it will be worth if she gets to cave in Joel's dome for me.
 

Key222

Member
Dec 11, 2017
148
I might have to wait for full spoilers to find out which of these spoilers are accurate before deciding to buy this game or not (at least I was waiting to play this on PS5). I just don't think I would have any interest in Abby and her story, or finishing the game, if the game really has you hunting down and killing Ellie.
 
Abby vs Ellie

DomahKari

Member
Apr 26, 2020
12
Okay, to everyone saying that Abby kills Ellie... That doesn't happen.

I saw a brief 1 minute video of the fight between Abby and Ellie. It was posted around 2PM EST, but before I could download it, the video was removed. I remember how it goes, but I couldn't really understand it because the language was either German or Turkish.

Anyway, here we go:

Ellie and Abby are fighting in what looks like a warehouse (or the aforementioned farm maybe, don't remember exactly). Abby has the upper hand and punches Ellie repeatedly in the face, badly stunning her. She then puts her in a chokehold and is about to snap her neck before Dina runs in and tackles Abby off her.

She swings at Abby with a knife for a bit, cutting her arms pretty badly, and is about to to kill her before she's shot in the shoulder with an arrow by Lev (the bald girl from the Paris 2017 trailer). Abby then gets on top of Dina and forces her to the floor, repeatedly smashing her face into it until she's unconscious, but not dead. It's really brutal.

As she does this, Ellie weakly begs Abby to stop (the subtitles showed this word). Abby stops and holds Dina up to her face with the knife to her neck, getting ready to slit Dina's throat. Before she does however, Lev calls out to her, seemingly to try and convince her not to kill Dina. It works, and she tosses Dina aside before leaving with Lev. Ellie then weakly reaches out to the unconscious Dina before she passes out too. That's where the video ends. Hope someone posts it back up soon so the rest of you can see.
 

ReyHabeas

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
47
Abby is gonna be the most hated vg character of all time lol
I dont think so. It seems like they are trying to humanize the enemies as much as possible. ND has done a good job at making everyone and everything grey in this universe. At the end of the day, Ellie and joel are murderes just as much as the other survivors . I think ND can make us sympathise with her if they write it well.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
The Raiden for a new generation. (Except this time it's not going to be the create director trolling the audience. Maybe.)

Raiden and Snake were very supportive of each other and Raiden got a lot of games afterward.

Abby will kill one or two of the main characters of the series and then the series will either end or she will die in Last of Us 3.

Would be tough for her to recover, lol.
 
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vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,611
Okay, to everyone saying that Abby kills Ellie... That doesn't happen.

I saw a brief 1 minute video of the fight between Abby and Ellie. It was posted around 2PM EST, but before I could download it, the video was removed. I remember how it goes, but I couldn't really understand it because the language was either German or Turkish.

Anyway, here we go:

Ellie and Abby are fighting in what looks like a warehouse (or the aforementioned farm maybe, don't remember exactly). Abby has the upper hand and punches Ellie repeatedly in the face, badly stunning her. She then puts her in a chokehold and is about to snap her neck before Dina runs in and tackles Abby off her.

She swings at Abby with a knife for a bit, cutting her arms pretty badly, and is about to to kill her before she's shot in the shoulder with an arrow by Lev (the bald girl from the Paris 2017 trailer). Abby then gets on top of Dina and forces her to the floor, repeatedly smashing her face into it until she's unconscious, but not dead. It's really brutal.

As she does this, Ellie weakly begs Abby to stop (the subtitles showed this word). Abby stops and holds Dina up to her face with the knife to her neck, getting ready to slit Dina's throat. Before she does however, Lev calls out to her, seemingly to try and convince her not to kill Dina. It works, and she tosses Dina aside before leaving with Lev. Ellie then weakly reaches out to the unconscious Dina before she passes out too. That's where the video ends. Hope someone posts it back up soon so the rest of you can see.
Damn, that's fucking harsh. Abby isn't fucking around.

I remember reading somewhere that a few of the leaked vids from early on in the day were Turkish so I'll honestly take your word for this. Gonna threadmark too.
 

ReyHabeas

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
47
The reddit leak that got right the Abby name and her being playable said Abby kills her IIRC

that leak also said Jessie lives and the leaked cutscene says he died so we dont know whats real anymore
At this point im not believing shit till I see it. Way too many poeple are quick to make any claim and under the circumstances, people will believe it, and it will spread.

as far as we know, the ending hasnt leaked, we have no idea if Ellie or Abby die, because we havent seen it. It's all he-said she-said.
 

Deleted member 864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,544
Okay, to everyone saying that Abby kills Ellie... That doesn't happen.

I saw a brief 1 minute video of the fight between Abby and Ellie. It was posted around 2PM EST, but before I could download it, the video was removed. I remember how it goes, but I couldn't really understand it because the language was either German or Turkish.

Anyway, here we go:

Ellie and Abby are fighting in what looks like a warehouse (or the aforementioned farm maybe, don't remember exactly). Abby has the upper hand and punches Ellie repeatedly in the face, badly stunning her. She then puts her in a chokehold and is about to snap her neck before Dina runs in and tackles Abby off her.

She swings at Abby with a knife for a bit, cutting her arms pretty badly, and is about to to kill her before she's shot in the shoulder with an arrow by Lev (the bald girl from the Paris 2017 trailer). Abby then gets on top of Dina and forces her to the floor, repeatedly smashing her face into it until she's unconscious, but not dead. It's really brutal.

As she does this, Ellie weakly begs Abby to stop (the subtitles showed this word). Abby stops and holds Dina up to her face with the knife to her neck, getting ready to slit Dina's throat. Before she does however, Lev calls out to her, seemingly to try and convince her not to kill Dina. It works, and she tosses Dina aside before leaving with Lev. Ellie then weakly reaches out to the unconscious Dina before she passes out too. That's where the video ends. Hope someone posts it back up soon so the rest of you can see.
...Huh. The fight definitely sounds brutal.
 

DomahKari

Member
Apr 26, 2020
12
Damn, that's fucking harsh. Abby isn't fucking around.

I remember reading somewhere that a few of the leaked vids from early on in the day were Turkish so I'll honestly take your word for this. Gonna threadmark too.
Thanks! Ugh, I'm lowkey mad at myself for not thinking to screenshot the video at all, because I thought it'd still be up. I saw it on my phone, then closed it to go to my computer and open it but it was literally only uploaded for 5 minutes before it got taken down. And yeah, Abby slamming Dina's face in is SUPER brutal. You can hear her bones snapping and when Abby pulls her up her nose is TOTALLY fucked up. First time I've seen such brutality in a video game that actually made me nauseous in an uncomfortable way instead of the gross factor.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,267
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Raiden and Snake were very supportive of each other and Raiden got a lot of games afterward.

Abby will kill one or two of the main characters of the series and then the series will either end or she will die in Last of Us 3.

Would be tough for her to recover, lol.
As I recall, Raiden didn't get a lot of support by the general gaming populace until his reveal leading up to MGS4's release. Kojima attempted to have fun at the player's expense with the whole naked sequence among other things.

I don't disagree that Abby's gonna get some heat, the intensity will vary depending on execution.
 

ReyHabeas

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
47
Okay, to everyone saying that Abby kills Ellie... That doesn't happen.

I saw a brief 1 minute video of the fight between Abby and Ellie. It was posted around 2PM EST, but before I could download it, the video was removed. I remember how it goes, but I couldn't really understand it because the language was either German or Turkish.

Anyway, here we go:

Ellie and Abby are fighting in what looks like a warehouse (or the aforementioned farm maybe, don't remember exactly). Abby has the upper hand and punches Ellie repeatedly in the face, badly stunning her. She then puts her in a chokehold and is about to snap her neck before Dina runs in and tackles Abby off her.

She swings at Abby with a knife for a bit, cutting her arms pretty badly, and is about to to kill her before she's shot in the shoulder with an arrow by Lev (the bald girl from the Paris 2017 trailer). Abby then gets on top of Dina and forces her to the floor, repeatedly smashing her face into it until she's unconscious, but not dead. It's really brutal.

As she does this, Ellie weakly begs Abby to stop (the subtitles showed this word). Abby stops and holds Dina up to her face with the knife to her neck, getting ready to slit Dina's throat. Before she does however, Lev calls out to her, seemingly to try and convince her not to kill Dina. It works, and she tosses Dina aside before leaving with Lev. Ellie then weakly reaches out to the unconscious Dina before she passes out too. That's where the video ends. Hope someone posts it back up soon so the rest of you can see.
Heres a claim from someone else who saw it too. It's a little similar:

"It begins with Abby hiding behind a piece of cover as Ellie circles a corner and looks for her on the other end of that counter. Using stealth you're supposed to grab Ellie. They fight ruthlessly, Ellie uses her switchblade often in the sequence and also bites her arm to get out of the chokehold Abby has her in. In this fight they end up collapsing through the floor to the lower level of the vuilding. Abby is also able to squeeze through things and take that to her advantage. But what happens first, right after they fall through the floor, is Ellie pulling out her shotgun. The prompt to dodge appears and as Abby you do just that. Gameplay wise it's very much reminiscent of fighting David. There's one part where the player rushes head on at Ellie and Ellie blasts Abby's gut with a shotgun and then as she's about to shoot her head off it cuts in that iconic old death screen style, then there's a tip that says "don't attack Ellie head on". After that was when I skimmed a bit but I noticed a prompt on the corner just after Abby threw that bottle, which Ellie dodges, then a bit after Abby and Ellie fight again, Abby nearly chokes her out but Ellie gains the upper hand. Fight continues but the player messes up again and dies."
 
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vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,611
Thanks! Ugh, I'm lowkey mad at myself for not thinking to screenshot the video at all, because I thought it'd still be up. I saw it on my phone, then closed it to go to my computer and open it but it was literally only uploaded for 5 minutes before it got taken down. And yeah, Abby slamming Dina's face in is SUPER brutal. You can hear her bones snapping and when Abby pulls her up her nose is TOTALLY fucked up. First time I've seen such brutality in a video game that actually made me nauseous in an uncomfortable way instead of the gross factor.
Aha don't worry, I have no reason to believe you're bullshitting tbh
God damn, that does sound rough though.
 

ditusjack

Member
Oct 26, 2017
616
After this here:

Okay, to everyone saying that Abby kills Ellie... That doesn't happen.
I saw a brief 1 minute video of the fight between Abby and Ellie. It was posted around 2PM EST, but before I could download it, the video was removed. I remember how it goes, but I couldn't really understand it because the language was either German or Turkish.

Anyway, here we go:

Ellie and Abby are fighting in what looks like a warehouse (or the aforementioned farm maybe, don't remember exactly). Abby has the upper hand and punches Ellie repeatedly in the face, badly stunning her. She then puts her in a chokehold and is about to snap her neck before Dina runs in and tackles Abby off her.

She swings at Abby with a knife for a bit, cutting her arms pretty badly, and is about to to kill her before she's shot in the shoulder with an arrow by Lev (the bald girl from the Paris 2017 trailer). Abby then gets on top of Dina and forces her to the floor, repeatedly smashing her face into it until she's unconscious, but not dead. It's really brutal.

As she does this, Ellie weakly begs Abby to stop (the subtitles showed this word). Abby stops and holds Dina up to her face with the knife to her neck, getting ready to slit Dina's throat. Before she does however, Lev calls out to her, seemingly to try and convince her not to kill Dina. It works, and she tosses Dina aside before leaving with Lev. Ellie then weakly reaches out to the unconscious Dina before she passes out too. That's where the video ends. Hope someone posts it back up soon so the rest of you can see.

I agree completely with this:

Abby is gonna be the most hated vg character of all time lol

Even with the sympathy angle, she's still completely brutalizes (and kills one) of the first game protagonists, protagonists that had 7 years of a fan base behind them.
Yep, get ready folks, and i'm already seeing this brewing with especially disgusting comments about her appearance on twitter.
 
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