Okay, I finished the first chapter and there's three points I would like to clarify:
Questions
1) Why exactly the common army was't moving when Ouroboros was around ?
2) Regarding the Hamel tragedy, was it something orchestrated by the "noble faction" within the erebonia army or a situation they took advantage of ?
3) This might be better answered later, but what the hell was Ouroboros doing near Saint Ark ? I don't think they ever said what they were doing there.
Impressions of Chapter 1
I liked the chapter a lot because it basically kicks off the game properly and also ties basically all games.
We get to see characters from the Sky trilogy and Hamel.
We see Sharly working together with Ouroboros and showing off the first big god gundam developed by them.
Fie's father figure shows up, says hi and goes out in another gundam.
The kids in new class VII show some growth.
Rean shows some smarts in the whole chapter and is, overall, a much more interesting character than the first two games.
Laura and Elliot redesigns are great.
My only pet peeve was with a sudden memory that popped up while Rean was in Hamel.
They haven't said anything yet, but I hope that Rean doesn't become a Hamel survivor or Joshua's long lost brother or something like that. If it does, Give an award to Ousborne for taking Rean out of Hamel and dropping him off in the other side of the freaking country.
I actually wrote a whole answer to you, SephLuis, but sent it into the void as I clicked "Post Reply", for I was cursed by the demon of "ongoing maintenance", and my post was lost.
So, err... What was I saying?
I thought that the others avoided to answer our questions because we were mid-chapter, but maybe its just that we are the last players of CS3 on this forum :D.
Regarding your questions:
1) My understanding is that they don't move because, if they would, it would uncover the lid on the Hamel incident. Sending many troops there would certainly result in leaks exposing Erebonia's dark history. This is just my understanding of the discussion that took place in the group after visiting Hyarms.
2) It is not very clear to me either, but I think I understood rather the latter. Some noble men in the regular army, afraid of the increasing power of the commoners, orchestrated the whole affair.
Also, if you connect the dots with SC:
Weissmann was manipulating them and their pride to cause the tragedy. I believe it was him that took advantage of the political tension in Erebonia at the time.
3) IMO, motivations for villains are never very well explained in Kiseki. As usual for Kiseki, Shirley mentioned an "experiment". Certainly the new archaisms (such an oxymoron) we fought throughout the chapter, and that are being developed by Ouroboros. From there, if Ouroboros was aware that the army was not likely to go to Hamel, it made sense to choose the place as a temporary headquarter and release the archaisms to see the results, only to fly away once the place was busted. Now, the underlying motivation for developing these monsters remain a mystery (that may or may not be explained later, I'm only at the beginning of chapter 2!)
There, I answered to the best of my abilities. I hope I didn't make any understanding mistake, I'm a beginner in Japanese, and even though I try to translate every story-related sentence, I may misunderstand or simplify some stuff... Other people in this thread, please feel free to correct me if I did misunderstand something!
The growing tensions of Erebonia's traditional class society, and the increasingly strained relationship between nobility and commoners, worked through into its imperial army. Within the army there was a 'noble faction', who felt embarrassed and pressured by the rise of commissioned officers of commoner origin. To recover the position of the noble faction, officers of the army's noble faction started to long for an opportunity to prove themselves. They planned an aggressive invasion of the small kingdom of Liberl, south of Erebonia, and sought an excuse for their invasion. Around this time Georg Weissmann, the third Anguis of Ouroboros, made use of the anxiety among the noble faction within the imperial army and introduced them to a certain band of jaegers he knew, pointing them toward Hamel. On the night of April 23rd, S.1192, a band of jaegers garbed in black and armed with Liberlian weaponry attacked Hamel.
This is everything revealed up to this point.
Feels good to have a singular spoiler-tag for both SC and Sen III.
Thanks a lot. I'm currently going through Chapter 2 (just got to the second day) and, surprisingly enough, I'm understanding this chapter very well.
I'm also wishing that Falcom uses the assets for a full remake of Crossbell. It would be awesome.
It's been a few days, but I finished the second chapter of the game. Currently going with class VII to train in the little fortress.
Overall impressions of Chapter 2:
I loved that we returned to Crossbell and it's a great sight to see it in full 3D. Or at least, that's what I expected.
It was quite a bummer to find out that many parts of the city weren't available to explore. I really wanted to see the pleasure district in it's full glory.
The story was kinda expected. Big political reunion in Crossbell (I think that, by this time, they would have learned to NOT do important meetings in Crossbell) and Ouroboros suddenly appearing with some mysterious experiment.
The first day was mostly dispatching monsters that, for some reason, resemble those that appeared in Erebonia before rather than the genjuu seen in Zero/Ao. It's the usual legwork of each chapter, however, the fights against the magical soldiers from the past were a pain the ass. One of my complaints with the bosses in this game is that they change the momentum of the battle way too fast. You are nearly breaking them an suddenly they go super sayan, heal, buff and take multiple turns where they proceed to kick your ass. It's not helping that I am playing on hard.
By night of the first day, we had the job of protecting the VIPs and talking to them. Regnius and Irina were interesting, mostly because they disclose a lot of the current Erebonia situation. Olivier et all were more heart-warming since he meets with new Class VII and Tita too. I swear I hope I can see Tita playable in this game. Everyone seems to have forgotten she's a battle hardened veteran and she must be keeping all those firearms somewhere. She's currently building her battle robot in Chapter 3 so that's a beginning.
The conversation with Rufus though, ties with awhole lot of information from past games, but it also makes me wonder regarding Osborne's objective. Rufus says he wants to surpass the man someday and I wonder how the hell he would achive that.
Right after, there's a party. A fiery one since Ouroboros suddenly attacks and freaking Campanella and fireman appear. I swear that one of my biggest desires in the entire series is to give Campanella a serious beatdown. I don't remember his moveset being that much of a pain the ass to deal. Obviously, the attack was more of a distraction and served for pratically no bigger purpose it seemed.
The next day we hunt them to the stargaze tower, one of my favorite dungeons in Zero/Ao that, unfortunatelly, isn't as beautiful in 3D. I find it unfortunate because the place in the 2D games was dark sligtly iluminated by the lamps and had particles/mist that really gave the feeling of entering a mysterious place. Add that it also had a bit of vegetation to give the impression it was abandoned long ago, it was a very striking place. The 3D version lacked a lot of those details that made the dungeon atmosphere.
In the stargaze tower we fight another magical soldier and proceed to fight Campanella/McBurn and then McBurn again. This was quite a gauntlet of bosses and I'm damn glad I recovered properly before the first Campanella/McBurn fight because, or else, I would be screwed. After defeating them, the Gundam recovers it's battery and we proceed to defeat it. After that, McBurn melts the damn thing and the "experiment" was completed.
Vita and not-Crowe appear mostly as an introduction since they hardly said anything important. Not-Crowe says he's acting as a representative for the Dwarves and this, interestingly enough, tied with the Black Factory mystery and apparently is tied to Altina's past. That talking ball apparently also gave quite a shock to Alisa which makes me wonder if she recognized the voice.
This is the bulk of the chapter and, what bothers me the most, is that Randy/Tio can't do anything and the rest of the SSS is on lock down. They trust Class VII to deal with the imminent great crisis Crossbell is facing, however, I kinda wonder what that was all about. If the crisis was Ouroboros, they certainly aren't doing too much thing to look like a major crisis so far. They are testing their Gundam's everywhere and obviously attracting attention so someone give them battle data. It still feels somewhat incomplete in the sense I still can't see wha their end goal with those experiments is.
What I did like, a lot, was Class VII growth as a whole. In Sen 1-2 it was pretty obvious that each character would have his turn to grow. In here, I feel that everyone is growing together not in turns. Juna has to face reality in regards to the Crossbell situation. Kurt has to deal with his being relived of his family's duty. Altina is growing as a person. All tree also want to be recognized by Rean and work together to achieve this. I don't remember any scene in CS1-2 that they managed to show characters growth in the same league such as this.
Also, this chapter often feels like it's more important as a setup for something bigger in the future rather than a self contained story:
1)We learn the new government plan to make Crossbell, Jurai and another city that I don't remember the name part of the main cities in the Empire. I wonder how that will fare in the future, since IIRC (spoiler for Ao no Kiseki)
Crossbell will become independent again eventually
2) The development of a Metal Gear Train, a mobile tank that can shoot nuclear bombs special bullets from pretty much anywhere and it isn't dependant of rails. Someone was playing MGS3 while writing this.
Though, I think it was far more interesting than the train itself is how much shit Irina must be hiding and why.
3) What I particularly didn't liked is how they had to lock everyone from SSS making the most of them a no-show.
While Eri/Dudley/Sergei made sense since they are still in the political/police side of things, Lloyd and group made less sense with the "bird cage trap" and everything. I liked that we managed to see a CG scene with them in the end, but I'm wondering, where was Rixia since she wans't there and she's part of the group (Fight was also missing).
4) The letters from Rean's father and master made me curious. Rean's father finally explains his relationship with Osborne and, it seems, Rean is really Osborne's kid (no family resemblance at all, but hey, videogames). Yu fan (I think that's his name) is going to Calvard becaus something big is going on there and he will be out at least for half a year. I'm wondering why he decided to give Rean of all people the "true form" of the 8 leaves school and wth that entails. I also didn't remembered he trained Cassius.
I really, really hope the next arc is Calvard and if I am not mistaken, McBurn or Campanella was saying that Mariabelle and someone else were there too. There's a party going on in there. In this same conversation they were teasing a bit the relationship between McBurn and Arianhod (I think that was her name), I will admit I'm curious.
This write-up got much, much bigger than expected. It's late here so it's more of my chapter thoughts jumbled together at this point.
It's been a few days, but I finished the second chapter of the game. Currently going with class VII to train in the little fortress.
Overall impressions of Chapter 2:
I loved that we returned to Crossbell and it's a great sight to see it in full 3D. Or at least, that's what I expected.
It was quite a bummer to find out that many parts of the city weren't available to explore. I really wanted to see the pleasure district in it's full glory.
The story was kinda expected. Big political reunion in Crossbell (I think that, by this time, they would have learned to NOT do important meetings in Crossbell) and Ouroboros suddenly appearing with some mysterious experiment.
The first day was mostly dispatching monsters that, for some reason, resemble those that appeared in Erebonia before rather than the genjuu seen in Zero/Ao. It's the usual legwork of each chapter, however, the fights against the magical soldiers from the past were a pain the ass. One of my complaints with the bosses in this game is that they change the momentum of the battle way too fast. You are nearly breaking them an suddenly they go super sayan, heal, buff and take multiple turns where they proceed to kick your ass. It's not helping that I am playing on hard.
By night of the first day, we had the job of protecting the VIPs and talking to them. Regnius and Irina were interesting, mostly because they disclose a lot of the current Erebonia situation. Olivier et all were more heart-warming since he meets with new Class VII and Tita too. I swear I hope I can see Tita playable in this game. Everyone seems to have forgotten she's a battle hardened veteran and she must be keeping all those firearms somewhere. She's currently building her battle robot in Chapter 3 so that's a beginning.
The conversation with Rufus though, ties with awhole lot of information from past games, but it also makes me wonder regarding Osborne's objective. Rufus says he wants to surpass the man someday and I wonder how the hell he would achive that.
Right after, there's a party. A fiery one since Ouroboros suddenly attacks and freaking Campanella and fireman appear. I swear that one of my biggest desires in the entire series is to give Campanella a serious beatdown. I don't remember his moveset being that much of a pain the ass to deal. Obviously, the attack was more of a distraction and served for pratically no bigger purpose it seemed.
The next day we hunt them to the stargaze tower, one of my favorite dungeons in Zero/Ao that, unfortunatelly, isn't as beautiful in 3D. I find it unfortunate because the place in the 2D games was dark sligtly iluminated by the lamps and had particles/mist that really gave the feeling of entering a mysterious place. Add that it also had a bit of vegetation to give the impression it was abandoned long ago, it was a very striking place. The 3D version lacked a lot of those details that made the dungeon atmosphere.
In the stargaze tower we fight another magical soldier and proceed to fight Campanella/McBurn and then McBurn again. This was quite a gauntlet of bosses and I'm damn glad I recovered properly before the first Campanella/McBurn fight because, or else, I would be screwed. After defeating them, the Gundam recovers it's battery and we proceed to defeat it. After that, McBurn melts the damn thing and the "experiment" was completed.
Vita and not-Crowe appear mostly as an introduction since they hardly said anything important. Not-Crowe says he's acting as a representative for the Dwarves and this, interestingly enough, tied with the Black Factory mystery and apparently is tied to Altina's past. That talking ball apparently also gave quite a shock to Alisa which makes me wonder if she recognized the voice.
This is the bulk of the chapter and, what bothers me the most, is that Randy/Tio can't do anything and the rest of the SSS is on lock down. They trust Class VII to deal with the imminent great crisis Crossbell is facing, however, I kinda wonder what that was all about. If the crisis was Ouroboros, they certainly aren't doing too much thing to look like a major crisis so far. They are testing their Gundam's everywhere and obviously attracting attention so someone give them battle data. It still feels somewhat incomplete in the sense I still can't see wha their end goal with those experiments is.
What I did like, a lot, was Class VII growth as a whole. In Sen 1-2 it was pretty obvious that each character would have his turn to grow. In here, I feel that everyone is growing together not in turns. Juna has to face reality in regards to the Crossbell situation. Kurt has to deal with his being relived of his family's duty. Altina is growing as a person. All tree also want to be recognized by Rean and work together to achieve this. I don't remember any scene in CS1-2 that they managed to show characters growth in the same league such as this.
Also, this chapter often feels like it's more important as a setup for something bigger in the future rather than a self contained story:
1)We learn the new government plan to make Crossbell, Jurai and another city that I don't remember the name part of the main cities in the Empire. I wonder how that will fare in the future, since IIRC (spoiler for Ao no Kiseki)
Crossbell will become independent again eventually
2) The development of a Metal Gear Train, a mobile tank that can shoot nuclear bombs special bullets from pretty much anywhere and it isn't dependant of rails. Someone was playing MGS3 while writing this.
Though, I think it was far more interesting than the train itself is how much shit Irina must be hiding and why.
3) What I particularly didn't liked is how they had to lock everyone from SSS making the most of them a no-show.
While Eri/Dudley/Sergei made sense since they are still in the political/police side of things, Lloyd and group made less sense with the "bird cage trap" and everything. I liked that we managed to see a CG scene with them in the end, but I'm wondering, where was Rixia since she wans't there and she's part of the group (Fight was also missing).
4) The letters from Rean's father and master made me curious. Rean's father finally explains his relationship with Osborne and, it seems, Rean is really Osborne's kid (no family resemblance at all, but hey, videogames). Yu fan (I think that's his name) is going to Calvard becaus something big is going on there and he will be out at least for half a year. I'm wondering why he decided to give Rean of all people the "true form" of the 8 leaves school and wth that entails. I also didn't remembered he trained Cassius.
I really, really hope the next arc is Calvard and if I am not mistaken, McBurn or Campanella was saying that Mariabelle and someone else were there too. There's a party going on in there. In this same conversation they were teasing a bit the relationship between McBurn and Arianhod (I think that was her name), I will admit I'm curious.
This write-up got much, much bigger than expected. It's late here so it's more of my chapter thoughts jumbled together at this point.
OK, thanks, I will start chapter 3 before reading it, then.
I'm done with chapter 2, too.
Wow. So many things happened. I liked that chapter, and that's even if all the references to the Crossbell games fell flat on me.
I mean...
How Cédric changed, his proposal that Rean comes teaching at Thors I, Sharon's past, Musee's past identity as a member of St. Astraia (her actual name is ミルディ right? What's the correct romanization for this? Melody?), the rail-cannon on rails, the 8 Megalopolis plan, Juna's breakdown and how she and her family were saved by Rean, the circumstances for Rufus' enrollment in the Ironbloods, Olivier's comeback (!), Rean losing control if not for Céline's intervention, meeting Campanella and McBurn again, and of course the first encounter with Siegfried of the Gnomes!
I feel that by the end of this chapter, we already have a huge setup for the end of the game. So I think that the gears will be set in motion in chapter III, and things will go really crazy by chapter IV!
Now, for some crazy theories about the rest of the game:
Two major points that I can think of:
* Rean's spirit unification: from the setup in chapter I and II, it is now obvious that Rean will lose control over Spirit Unification at some point. He currently requires Céline to keep control, so I believe that at some point he will have to transform while Céline is absent or incapacitated, or his oni power will exceed Céline's control magic (possibly through Rose's intervention?)? If this happens, this will obviously be a dramatic moment in the game. Possibly both the new and old class VII will bring him back to his former self?
* The Gnomes: Seeing how Siegfried looks like Crow, and with the reappearance of the Jäger leader in the first chapter, I now believe that, for some yet unknown reason, the Gnomes use dead humans as some kind of "vessels". Siegfried is their messenger. Also, Alisa seems to recognize the voice of the flying ball, and is very disturbed by this. Now, with the fact that Sharon's past was explained earlier during the chapter with her assassination of Alisa's father, I think that the person speaking through that flying sphere may actually be Alisa's father. That is, his gnome version. This theory would have interesting implications regarding Osborne's "death". Is Osborne a gnome? Or was he born with the heart on the right side?
I think we might get some more info about Musee and Ash in chapters III and IV, and more about Altina/Millium by the end of the game?
* Another interesting thing I noted about Sharon's past, is that it's reusing a template similar to Joshua's or Renne's: an individual lives through a dramatic incident, then spends several years of bloody crime, and lastly meet someone that makes them change their ways. In a way, I feel like Kiseki is a lot about "rehabilitation" of repented people, and how they can deal with their past.
* Similarly, the character development for Juna/Kurt makes me feel like a statement about how a group (class VII) can move forward by solving the problems of its individual members. That's why I'd like Musee and Ash to join the group now!
Looking forward to chapter III.
Also, disappointed to finish the chapter with only an A, but there was a quest related to cooking, and I can't cook in kiseki for the life of me :-/. May have missed hidden quests too...
From what I understood, Sharon didn't kill Alisa's father. She was supposed to meet him, but an accident happened and he lost his life while she was heavily injured. She was then nursed back to health by Irina and became their maid. She blames herself for being the reason Alisa's father died, but I don't think she was there to assassinate him (or that she was the cause of the accident).
That is what I understood from the chapter at least
To be fair, I prefer them to divert from templates rather than follow them.
Copy/paste from the Kiseki Wiki: Sharon received a mission from F. Novartis to infiltrate the Reinford Group's headquarter in Roer and make contact with Franz Reinford. However, she failed her mission, suffering life-threatening injuries herself and killing the person she was supposed to meet up with. Her victim's wife, Irina Reinford, decided to help the girl. She had ever only referred to herself as 'Kreuger' or 'Severing Chains', Irina decided on the name 'Sharon' for her. She was provided work as the maid of the Reinford family, which she accepted, making use of the freedom granted to Enforcers of Ouroboros.
I think that a template can be good if the writers can display variety in this canvas. Much like Albert Camus did with "La Peste", where all characters are confronted to the pandemic illness, but they all react differently (plus the narrative twist in the end which was fairly novel at the time).
Comparing Sharon and Joshua, we can see how the differences: Joshua did not kill Cassius. He also resigned from Ouroboros. This makes the whole situation trickier to handle for Sharon in the present. I'd love to see that difference mess with her loyalty in the future, but now that is probably not happening.
I wanted Ash and Musee, and sure enough, they joined the class. This game is really reading my mind! Or is it the other way around?
I also got "that discussion" with George, where I successfully gained 1 AP. From there I kinda want to change my theory about the gnomes.
I now believe that the gnomes recreated artificial humans much like Myriam and Altina. Their recreations just tend to take their look from real people.
With this, I now think that Osborne never died in the first place: he simply foresaw that his life was in danger, and sent a puppet in his place, pretty much like a Pokémon using clone.
Now, what he promised to the gnomes to get that deal is another story...
OK, I'll be back in a couple hours of playtime (stretched over several real life weeks...) to change all this again when I'm proven wrong!
Well, I'm happy to be bringing some joy!
Not many people are posting in this thread, so this is nice to know some of you are reading. Especially since I believe you finished the game.
Watching me with my very basic knowledge of Japanese, who haven't played Crossbell, and who must wait a long time between each play session, go into some speculations must make for an entertaining show with your hindsight!
So I could go just a little further tonight.
The letter of Yun Kafai was definitely interesting, mainly due to that bit about the "desertification" that's taking place on the east of the continent. That sounds pretty bad. Was this already discussed in the series (e.g. in Crossbell?)? Is this the reason why there are Eastern immigrants in Calvard?
Other than that, not too thrilled to see Rean's behavior towards Elise. Hiding the reason of the strained relationship with Theo, "protecting" her from any male around (poor Patrick). I kinda want her to discover and read the letters while doing the cleaning for him.
By the way Mihail (or whatever his name's proper romanization might be) has a younger sister. Interesting tidbit. The guy appears to be rather secretive. I wonder what's his background like.
Having fun with the sidequests. Helping Franky to find his place in life was a really nice moment.
Kind of reminded me of the story with Agate and the Ravens back in Liberl, when he trains them to become proper Bracers.
Except the guy has no skill whatsoever in battle :D. Makes the beatdown by Ash in chapter II even funnier and unjustified in hindsight.
Anyway that's a good character development.
Performing a tea ceremony with Kairi to prove to him that this is very manly suffered from a less convincing execution IMO.
I liked the setup for this quest, since I did notice Kairi's masculinity issues earlier in the game, and hence his doubts regarding his club activity sounded like a very natural development. I also liked that he shares his dad issues right at the moment where Rean is entangled into his own (which Rean himself notices righly so).
I'm just not very convinced by Rean's response to the issue. Trying to tie the tea ceremony to martial arts doesn't seem very convincing. Or maybe, I am missing some cultural subtext? Also, the bit about Kairi leading the medical team or whatnot, I was unaware of (but maybe I missed it in optional dialogs).
I think Rean's response boils down to "It's OK because you express your masculinity just differently. Proper manners and spirit of a martial artists are also a way to express masculinity". I think I would have preferred an answer on the lines of "role models are just models that you don't have to follow. Be happy the way you are.", but on the other hand, this would have probably been less effective to communicate with Kairi, since obviously he is seeing the world through the lens of what ought to be masculine.
Anyway, the end result feels like a temporary morale boost for Kairi, not really a resolution of his underlying issue. Then again, I may have misunderstood something, and the writers are free to express their own views. Also, I feel like this is a complex issue, and it's nice to see it handled explicitly. I just wish it would have been handled a bit differently.
By the way, Kairi himself feels like a "template" character. He looks like an unassuming Elliott to me (on that note, I'm glad that Elliott could resolve his issues and start his life as a musician).
Also, I bought jewels from a dog. Again.
I still have Rosine's subquest to do and the bonding points to spend, but I have to stop for now because I need some sleep before going to work.
What are some nice bonding events, this time around?
BTW, I'm now clocking around 180h.
from what i understood the mention of desertification by Ka-fai is the first time we heard about it, at this point i think we all assume that it indeed is the reason for the mass immigration. There is one thing that you did not mention so it might have gone over your head so i'll post Gu4n's translation here;
It has been quite a while, Rean.
Last time we met face to face must have been 2 years ago already, around the time you enrolled in the academy. Teo showed me a recent photograph of you. You've really grown up. A handsome man like you is sure to be popular among the ladies, but with that aloof attitude of yours it is nothing but pearls cast before swine.
...Truth is, I must embark to the East soon. It is horrendous over there. Dragon veins are exhausted and the land gradually becomes barren. Compared to the West one might call it a different world altogether. Most likely I will not return in the next half year. I had hoped to meet up with you before I left, but... Well, it is as the Goddess wills it.
I heard that during the empire's civil war you ended up with the nickname of Ashen Chevalier. That 'ogre' power that led you to become my apprentice and the riddles regarding your birth and past -- those aspects are certainly bewildering, perhaps something to be made fun of, but not something to fear.[?]
The Seventh Form I taught you is the sword that brings about a momentary flash in the darkness of ignorance. Its path to mastery is far more elusive than the other forms and I do not whether you will come to understand the true nature of things, but...still, it was you I chose as my 'last student' ten years ago. Neither Cassius nor Arios, it is you to master the true meaning of the Eight Leaves as One Blade.
The blade that illuminates the darkness, even if only momentarily, in the turbulent times to come. It should be possible with those who share and inherit your spirit.
Well then, stay strong. When we reunite after my return from the East I am planning to teach you the secrets of the form.
Yours Sincerly, Yun Ka-fai
Iirc i think the bonding events are all around better in the game, they seemed to be so at least. And damn your playtime sure shows dedication :D
* The whole bit with Rean's sister discussing her beloved brother with the other girls not once, but twice (in her room then in the bath) got very old very fast. The whole bath scene was so tired that my GF knew what it was about without even reading Japanese.
* The church teaching quest was OK, except again the Elise/Rean relationship
* Definitively something up with Alisa's father since even George talks about him
* Altina is a bit overprotective of Rean. Trying to protect a national Hero, awakener of a giant mecha, and also Oni on half time is definitely a dangerous endeavor that could result in something bad™ happening to her.
* I did Musse's bonding event. I like the detail that the game remembered I helped to train and mentioned it in the story dialogues.
* That "geographer" is giving me Weissmannesque vibes
* So Rose is with the witches (it wasn't clear to me on the first time). She was actually helpful this time/
* Rean again on the verge of losing it, just to keep up with Arianhod. This may very well be how he will lose it in the end.
* Something is up with Gaius.
* Wow Aurelia playable. Didn't expect that. The whole base sequence was very epic (but didn't really make the story move forward)
* So that was Musse's secret. Hmpf.
* Incoming war?
* So Crow's body was replaced by a fake by the gnomes, a la rurouni kenshin (it was the only option once Angie entered the cemetery, that or an empty tomb. She was never going to find his worm-eaten corpse).
* George Nome is with the Gnomes, who would have guessed that?
* Oh my g*d, they killed Angelica!
On the whole, this chapter delivered. So many details peppered in the narration of this game, it is absolutely crazy.
* Something's definitely up with Gaius and ... his master I believe?
* Tita playable!
* So the Soldiers where imagined by... Alisa's father. At this point I just wait for him to make his grand entrance.
* We're going to Heimdallr. Wonder how it will be in glorious PS3 3D.
Wow. That ending. That body count. "That guy" who died. I can't possibly accept his death. No.
Other than that, I liked this game. It felt like a kiseki game alright. I liked its huge scale (so many characters), even though there was a tendency to a bit too much of "background dump", where a character would find Rean and tell him their past on sepia still backgrounds. The music was great, if only slightly repetitive after 300h.
I also liked the battle system and the brave orders, that add an additional tactical dimension to the battles.
I'm waiting for the next game. Maybe I'll play Crossbell (at least zero) while waiting for September.
Rereading my theories for the end of the game, here are some interesting bullets:
* Interestingly, early on, I thought Rose was a baddie. Was this a mischaracterization due to some translation error on my part, or is actually her character introduced ambiguously early on?
* Rean did indeed F**k up with spirit unification. Like, seriously. I was more expecting Altina to play Millium's role, though.
* Alisa's father was indeed a gnome (and not just any of them), as well as our "Professor Alba mark II". Alisa is not my favorite character, but I must say that I do feel bad for her at the end of CS3.
* Also, it's not so much that Osborne was born with the "heart on the right", but rather than he has no more heart whatsoever. Now, the obvious problem with this explanation is, how the heck did he survive transplanting his heart in the first place?
* More generally, unless I've missed something obvious, I feel like we don't have much more information on resurrection than at the beginning of the game. The only hint we have is that every Highlander seems to also be an Awakener right now (except for Rose, which is clearly not human though).
* That game was decidedly dark, and so was most of the CS arc. Starting from CS1, it feels like each new game throws Rean, and Erebonia with him, in a worse place. I mean even the game felt it was necessary to reassure that it will go better after this game (with the most hilarious engrish, too)!
Yeah, not so much "dedication" as much as a big rationalization of my impulse-buy of a game in a language I can't (couldn't?) read. As you correctly noted above (thanks for the letter's translation, BTW), there are multiple details I didn't get while playing. Basically, I could work out the basic "shape" of the events, but couldn't always feel their "texture", so to speak. Anyway, I feel like I made some progress between the beginning where I had to stop to translate every line, and the end where some of them I could understand without resorting to dictionaries/translation tools.
I will read your impressions eventually, as I myself had to stop the game in chapter 3 for now =/
I am juggling a lot of things now, but I intent to return soon to the game.
zrk congratulations on finishing the game! Now you can join us on Kisekicrack and wallowing in crazy news dumps :D It's very motivating to hear you speak on how the journey also is one of polishing your Japanese skills as someone who finally started with a serious attempt (just sitting at Hiragana though).
Now on to the meat;
I agree with the background dump, i think most people felt this and it is a shame that Falcom felt for the cardinal sin of not following the "show don't tell" rule so much. I look forward to see how they change the quality for sen4 as this was the first time going with such an ambitious game.
roselia DOES feel ambiguous, even at this point i am certain she has been hiding vital things, one of which i am writing a cracktheory about as we speak actually. I can totally see why you would interpret her character as a villainous one simply because we don't know anything from her appearances before Rean;
what do you mean with altina playing milliums role? Becoming the sword of demise? Because in that case i think it is the perfect thing that happened, millium stepping in is the perfect finale of her character progression as an amorphous person without any emotions growing to someone who has grown such strong emotions she wants to protect someone. It is shocking and nobody saw it coming but even there it doesn't stop for me, it also is the perfect vehicle for altina's emotional growth. She has been learning so many positive emotions which finalised with her final bond with rean and now she is going to learn the other turn of the coin. I think these two sisters together with rean are the most interesting in-depth characters we'll ever see (from my pov at least). And here's to hope Millium will actually talk haha;
i think we haven't seen anything close to what osborne is and that he always has been a divergent being of sorts. His name itself is a red flag to me given that Osgilliath Basin finally appeared on the map of Erebonia. Gilliath Osborne. Borne of Osgilliath (basin). Furthermore he pilots what is described as the master unit Deus-excellion AND Alberich referred to him as master. Curious.
Resurrection definitely is very vague at this point. Roselia lives because she is a vampire, i'd suggest reading Red Moon Rose for more backstory on her. But with the awakaners/risers it is still up the air, though there might a possible hereditary part to it given Rutger's DK used to be piloted by an unnamed jaeger on behalf of that one prince in the past. And then there is the story of Lianne's resurrection simply happening after six months.
the stakes definitely have been at an all high in CS, i'm curious to see how this will go in sen4...
It's very motivating to hear you speak on how the journey also is one of polishing your Japanese skills as someone who finally started with a serious attempt (just sitting at Hiragana though).
Wow, I assumed all along that you could read Japanese, given that you seems to know so much about the game. How did you do? Did you play with a guide? Anyway, good luck with your efforts. I must say that I'm pretty happy with how my attempt turned out. Learning a new language always feels like developing a new super power. Suddenly I start to understand what the characters are saying in anime =). Also, I love kanji (even though there are so many of them!).
Regarding "background dumps", while I did feel that it was too much, I also don't really know how they could have done differently, realistically speaking. I mean, integrating all of these to the main scenario would have required events more tightly related to the characters' background. I think doing this for all characters would have made the plot even more complex and the playtime even longer (and honestly at 300h I'm glad it finished when it did). Yes, certainly they could have reduced the use of this device by integrating some of the backgrounds to the main story, or by being clever in the narrative (I feel like Juna's backstory with the Ashen Knight is an instance where the "dump" could have been handled better).
Nevertheless, CS3 is so full of the dev's will to reveal the background of all their characters that I'm willing to give them a pass for this problem. As you say we'll see how this evolves in CS4. Regarding previous mistakes that they didn't reproduce, I was glad that Falcom didn't overuse the "win in battle, lose in cutscene" gimmick that was everywhere in CS2. I found even funny that often, Juna and co would look tired after the fight, but not Rean.
Roselia DOES feel ambiguous, even at this point i am certain she has been hiding vital things, one of which i am writing a cracktheory about as we speak actually. I can totally see why you would interpret her character as a villainous one simply because we don't know anything from her appearances before Rean;
Yes. I was expecting Altina to die at that moment, from the fact that she already expressed the strong desire to protect Rean earlier in the game. That being said, and even though my expectations were trumped by what actually happened, I'm agree with you that this is a "good" (narratively speaking, poor Millium) outcome. I think the game hinted at Altina's behavior deliberately, both to explain her attempt at protecting Rean before Millium intervene, and as a red-herring for Millium's sacrifice. All in all, this was really well done (and so was most of the in-depth characterization that occured in the game). I'm really looking forward to what changes it will induce in Altina in the next game.
Speaking of CS4, I remember something very strange that happened at the end of one of Musse's bonding events. The one where Rean helps her to train. After the training, Rean leaves the room, and then Musse's headshot the cardboard target. And then she says "おかげで完全にカンを取り戻せたみたいです。". I'm not quite sure what's she's talking about, but it does look quite ominous. I wonder how that will unfold in CS4.
His name itself is a red flag to me given that Osgilliath Basin finally appeared on the map of Erebonia. Gilliath Osborne. Borne of Osgilliath (basin).
That's very interesting! I didn't make that connection. I love how Kiseki characters can have pretty significant names. That means we get to visit this place in CS4? I did notice that Alberich was referring to Osborne with more formality that what seemed strictly necessary. That's strange, because if anything I would have said that Osborne should be indebted to the gnomes?
Yes, I already read Red Moon Rose. Seeing characters refer to the book series in-universe was a real treat. What I didn't read, but should, are the black records of CS3. Surely, I can find them translated somewhere?
Thank you for confirming that resurrection is still very vague at this point. I don't know about heredity, because even someone like Weissmann, that has nothing to do with awakeners, could possibly be revived. It looks like resurrection requires the body, since turning you into salt appears to prevent it. Also, Lianne looks like a case of "spontaneous" resurrection, whereas the Zephyr gang was talking about "bringing back" their boss. I really hope we will get a more precise answer in CS4.
Meanwhile, back to the waiting game I guess.
PS: I just bought zero on dlsite (there's a sale till the 14th), so I think I will soon dive again in kiseki...
Wow, I assumed all along that you could read Japanese, given that you seems to know so much about the game. How did you do? Did you play with a guide? Anyway, good luck with your efforts. I must say that I'm pretty happy with how my attempt turned out. Learning a new language always feels like developing a new super power. Suddenly I start to understand what the characters are saying in anime =). Also, I love kanji (even though there are so many of them!).
Regarding "background dumps", while I did feel that it was too much, I also don't really know how they could have done differently, realistically speaking. I mean, integrating all of these to the main scenario would have required events more tightly related to the characters' background. I think doing this for all characters would have made the plot even more complex and the playtime even longer (and honestly at 300h I'm glad it finished when it did). Yes, certainly they could have reduced the use of this device by integrating some of the backgrounds to the main story, or by being clever in the narrative (I feel like Juna's backstory with the Ashen Knight is an instance where the "dump" could have been handled better).
Nevertheless, CS3 is so full of the dev's will to reveal the background of all their characters that I'm willing to give them a pass for this problem. As you say we'll see how this evolves in CS4. Regarding previous mistakes that they didn't reproduce, I was glad that Falcom didn't overuse the "win in battle, lose in cutscene" gimmick that was everywhere in CS2. I found even funny that often, Juna and co would look tired after the fight, but not Rean.
That's interesting. Do you have a place where you will share your theory once it's done?
Yes. I was expecting Altina to die at that moment, from the fact that she already expressed the strong desire to protect Rean earlier in the game. That being said, and even though my expectations were trumped by what actually happened, I'm agree with you that this is a "good" (narratively speaking, poor Millium) outcome. I think the game hinted at Altina's behavior deliberately, both to explain her attempt at protecting Rean before Millium intervene, and as a red-herring for Millium's sacrifice. All in all, this was really well done (and so was most of the in-depth characterization that occured in the game). I'm really looking forward to what changes it will induce in Altina in the next game.
Speaking of CS4, I remember something very strange that happened at the end of one of Musse's bonding events. The one where Rean helps her to train. After the training, Rean leaves the room, and then Musse's headshot the cardboard target. And then she says "おかげで完全にカンを取り戻せたみたいです。". I'm not quite sure what's she's talking about, but it does look quite ominous. I wonder how that will unfold in CS4.
That's very interesting! I didn't make that connection. I love how Kiseki characters can have pretty significant names. That means we get to visit this place in CS4? I did notice that Alberich was referring to Osborne with more formality that what seemed strictly necessary. That's strange, because if anything I would have said that Osborne should be indebted to the gnomes?
Yes, I already read Red Moon Rose. Seeing characters refer to the book series in-universe was a real treat. What I didn't read, but should, are the black records of CS3. Surely, I can find them translated somewhere?
Thank you for confirming that resurrection is still very vague at this point. I don't know about heredity, because even someone like Weissmann, that has nothing to do with awakeners, could possibly be revived. It looks like resurrection requires the body, since turning you into salt appears to prevent it. Also, Lianne looks like a case of "spontaneous" resurrection, whereas the Zephyr gang was talking about "bringing back" their boss. I really hope we will get a more precise answer in CS4.
Meanwhile, back to the waiting game I guess.
PS: I just bought zero on dlsite (there's a sale till the 14th), so I think I will soon dive again in kiseki...
I actually followed streams who translated the game! Most notably OMGfloofy who streamed everything from the get go, and when i work on cracktheories i go back to Reiahl's streams who translated everything line by line. Guan and Aliseyun also have put a lot of effort in getting the wiki updated as much as possible giving a lot of information. So basically i've been nerding on it since release with other people (the biggest sen3 discussion group, as far as i know, is in a similar scenario like me). Though i have to admit i have not watched every detail in game (the franz reveal was out of blue for me for example) as i skipped a lot of the "fluff" so when the game gets translated i still have a fresh perspective anyway. And Hindsight always is a great thing in Kiseki imo. But it has been motivating me very hard to actually make a serious effort on learning the language so i hopefully can import for Calvard in a few years :D
That's interesting. Do you have a place where you will share your theory once it's done?
Speaking of CS4, I remember something very strange that happened at the end of one of Musse's bonding events. The one where Rean helps her to train. After the training, Rean leaves the room, and then Musse's headshot the cardboard target. And then she says "おかげで完全にカンを取り戻せたみたいです。". I'm not quite sure what's she's talking about, but it does look quite ominous. I wonder how that will unfold in CS4.
Musse has been acting weird all game, also with her trying to hypnotise Rean and stuff? Now with news being released on sen4 it gets even more ambiguous what her goal is supposed to be. They are hinting that her plans will not align with the main group which is weird to me, as if she has something big planned. Well she must have something strong for Vita and Aurelia to be loyal about her but it's hard to say what. And there are lines that seem to indicate that she has some ability to predict the future which makes no sense either, the only person who can do that as far as we know is the Grandmaster...
That's very interesting! I didn't make that connection. I love how Kiseki characters can have pretty significant names. That means we get to visit this place in CS4? I did notice that Alberich was referring to Osborne with more formality that what seemed strictly necessary. That's strange, because if anything I would have said that Osborne should be indebted to the gnomes?
Osgilliath Basin definitely is going to be a location, it is the place that Steel was formed so it is important by default. Furthermore there is a big chance it is the Gnomes' stronghold nowadays and we already have material that might be potentially it imo; 1, 2, 3 #3 might be farfetched more akin to a different dimension but i'm keeping the possibility personally.
From what i understood Alberich refers to Osborne as 'Master' which definitely is raising red flags, there must be something that still is to be revealed. Either way we know that Osborne is a divergent being himself though we do not know through what means once again. And Ishmelga is referred to as the master model so it probably is the strongest too.
You can read translations of the Black Records on the Kiseki Wikia, Guan translated them. Personally i think #1 and #4 are very ominous for what might be coming later?
I actually think that resurrection is linked inherently to the Curse itself, why that links to Weissmann is being teased in said black records (#7 to be exact);
Seventh is the manifestation of northern pale and the unwanted child.
This line seems pretty blatant to refer to Weissmann, who's life and journey has been defined by the Salt Pale starting by becoming an orphan, joining the church, joining ouroboros, instigating the eight step of the plan. Combined with his Evil Eye which we had seen in SC it isn't a farfetched idea anymore that he was Cursed himself. This theory elaborates on the meaning of the eye itself. And that he had to be bolted by sand not just to die but because he could be resurrected by the Curse. The Curse is a product of Steel after all, which gas properties of te Fire sept which wouldn't be farfetched to have some control over life. Or animation.
.
Be sure to catch up on the news! we're on a bi-weekly schedule of news already :D
Improving your language skills through a game you've been dying to play is very efficient. I hardly used Japanese after graduating until I decided to pick up SC years later.
These writings are so mysterious. I wonder how the books in Cold Steel II fit in with the ones introduced in Sen III and if there are more big events in Erebonian history that haven't been brought up yet.
It's funny how different Aurelia seems in 3. I don't know if it was their intention but in 2 while she didn't get much screentime she kind of came across as a bit player what with her practically bragging about her combat prowess which is generally a tell tale sign of a 小物 in fiction like this. Not to mention seemingly hot-headed and battle-hungry
In 3 she feels like the exact opposite. She's got that 大物 aloofness about her.
So I just finished the Prologue and Chapter 1 of Sen 3 without speaking or reading a lick of Japanese, it went surprisingly well. I have a quick plot question I could not get the answer to and it's gnawing at me since I don't have the full text.
Why is it that everyone from Thor II go and visit Loewe's grave in Hamel and they all put flower on it ? It was odd, I'm guessing it's because of the responsibility Erebonia hold in the tragedy that was Hamel but it appears odd, like it makes sense Agate knew the man considering he was there in Sky to fight a few time against him and knowing he was Joshua's dearest friend but for Rean and all of Class VII it's odd.
And for some speculations on my part
I don't want the answers to these but I have the impression Rean might've been born in Hamel or it's what the cutscene made me think about and I think Ash has a demon (or ogre like) power like Rean the way he grabbed it's right eye
And another thing I did not anticipate, it's the first time I love a series enough to play a game in Japanese just to get the big event from it while waiting for the complete experience when we get it in English. But why are they using so much English (on store sign, sign street, in the note book, in the multiple store window) I was under the impression not a ton of Japanese were speaking English and it's off it's like if some game I'm playing part of their menu were in Spanish, or French, or Japanese. Are the Trails game alone in doing so and do we know why ?
They placed the flowers for the reason you explained indeed, collective guilt indeed. Though personally i found that scene badly written, actually that whole moment with the students getting to the village without any repercussions. The government should not be happy with a group of youngsters learning of confidential information like this. Unless if missed a scene afterwards.
The use of english in signage and the like just is for flair i feel, maybe also more to give the tone of a setting as Western Zemuria is more inspired by our region of the world. And i can only assume anglicisms have gotten root in Japanese not unlike what happens in European countries.
The use of english in signage and the like just is for flair i feel, maybe also more to give the tone of a setting as Western Zemuria is more inspired by our region of the world.
Pictured here is the "Boutique Lapin", where "Lapin" means "rabbit" in French. When written on the blackboard by Rean, the "War of the Lions" is the "War of Loewe", where "Loewe" is Lion in German. Generally, a lot of names come from English, French or German (" Schwarzer" is derived from German "Schwarz", there's a NPC called "Louise" in the accounting class in Leeves, we also have "Claire", "Elliott", etc). The english signs can sometimes result in an unintented humorous effect, like the "Authorized personnel onry" sign you'll discover in chapter 2.
Regarding the terms in the menu, I think this is just standard "lingo" at this point. JRPG takes its distant roots in pen&paper RPG, which originates from English speaking countries. Moreover, programmers are necessary to develop a video game, and programmer culture is mostly in English, with programming language and documentation being mostly in English. Persona 5's UI, for example, is also in English. I must say, that's a chance, because if designers were to go for kanji, that would make translating the menu more difficult (as kanji would typically require fewer characters than the English terms).
Pictured here is the "Boutique Lapin", where "Lapin" means "rabbit" in French. When written on the blackboard by Rean, the "War of the Lions" is the "War of Loewe", where "Loewe" is Lion in German. Generally, a lot of names come from English, French or German (" Schwarzer" is derived from German "Schwarz", there's a NPC called "Louise" in the accounting class in Leeves, we also have "Claire", "Elliott", etc). The english signs can sometimes result in an unintented humorous effect, like the "Authorized personnel onry" sign you'll discover in chapter 2.
Regarding the terms in the menu, I think this is just standard "lingo" at this point. JRPG takes its distant roots in pen&paper RPG, which originates from English speaking countries. Moreover, programmers are necessary to develop a video game, and programmer culture is mostly in English, with programming language and documentation being mostly in English. Persona 5's UI, for example, is also in English. I must say, that's a chance, because if designers were to go for kanji, that would make translating the menu more difficult (as kanji would typically require fewer characters than the English terms).
Quick question for importers. Have any of you used offgamers before to get Japan PSN codes? They have deals that dont seem to have the markup Play Asia currently has.
Just curious before I bite the bullet and get Sen III.
BTW did anyone else get constant frame drops through the bigger areas in the game? They were really noticeable to the point where I found it dubious they would release the game in that state.
I experienced lots of drops in some area (playing on a non pro PS4). I can't be sure without comparing with your console, but I'd say it's not your PS4 dying.
