The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel 3 |OT| The Embers of War

Open Wound · Nov 30, 2019

Jannyish said:
I think at some point when this released someone asked for a review/perspective from someone having started with CS3 without even playing CS1+2, so I thought I would post this.

I was one of those, so thank you. I was very curious if the new class VII could help newcommers to keep themselves from being too lost.

After finishing the game, newcommers shouldn't have much trouble with keeping up with the plot, although they might have lore and character overload, but to me it seems that you would lose way too much in regards of emotional investment. I also thought it would get a tad frustrating seeing Rean know about stuff that new class VII doesn't and they just go "I don't know what's going on", so to me they didn't seem to be that great as gateway characters even if they should help with that.

Regardless, as long as people are able to enjoy the experience, I'm more than satisfied. And the slow pace probably does wonders in helping people get invested in the characters even if some of them, like Rean, have massive amounts of baggage attached. I don't know, as a fan I'm probably among the most relaxed with how necessary previous arcs are for each new arc (I always thought that people were vastly overselling the narrative relevance of Sky and Crossbell for CSIII, and playing it very much confirmed it), but even then I'm 8 games deep into this mess, I find it that it's really hard for me to separate my long time investment in the franchise from the experience itself, so at this point I'm thinking is best to just let people start wherever they want to start, and if the Trails formula clicks, then they will probably enjoy it regardless.

Orion · Nov 30, 2019

And just like that I've run out of Trails. I've just been staring at my screen for a while, trying to formulate some coherent thoughts. It was definitely my favorite Cold Steel game. Best final dungeon music ever. Games that create such a detailed world and story on this scale are so rare, I can never praise this series enough. My only real complaint is that it ended, and in the classic traumatizing cliffhanger fashion that leaves you with a cold emptiness.

It's like if you're at the best part of a book, but then your dad comes along, rips the book out of your hands and half strangles your robot body while yelling "no more fairytales, only despair!" There's just no preparing yourself for that.

So yeah, I guess maybe Osborne's just a jerk after all. All I know for sure is that he and Lughman apparently began competing years ago for the Worst Father title. Lughman seems like such a boring stereotypical villain at first glance, it's kinda hilarious after Alisa painted such a warm, wholesome picture of him. I'm annoyed that I feel like I'm still missing part of the picture when it comes to their motivations though. I'm pretty sure they don't actually just want the world to end, and surely someone like Claire wouldn't continue following Osborne if that were all there was to it. I mean... could her loyalty really be that blind?

Fuck Claire tho. And Lechter. And Sharon. And Cedric of course. Fuck all them complicit assholes. But most importantly... FUCK GEORGE. If I don't get to personally end him in the next game, I'm gonna be pissed. I better not see his ass crawling back saying he's sorry, it was all an act, he was brainwashed, his clone did it, etc. Nope. Don't wanna hear it. No forgiveness. He took a swing at Towa. There's no coming back from that. He's dead to me.

Just when I was lulled into a false sense of security by these super dramatic duels in which characters trade more witty remarks than actual deadly blows, suddenly Olivert gets blown out the sky and Millium's fucking dead and a sword! I was honestly never very fond of Millium, but that still hurt. She just wanted to protect her family. ;_; I thought people were just telling me a few pages ago that nobody dies in Trails. I hope they're right for Olivert's sake. Maybe he learned how to teleport like the bad guys. ;_;

The most annoying thing though, is that it feels like so much tragedy could've been avoided if half the cast didn't keep super important information to themselves all the damn time. I'm especially looking at you, 800 YEAR OLD VAMPIRE BABY GRANDMA WITCH. Other issues I had with the game: No Blueblanc, no Anton and Ricky, not enough Olivert lute performances, too much cruel footage of Olivert getting blown up.

But who could the mysterious 7th Divine Knight be?? Do Rean's demonic powers come from the Great One? Why is the Great One such an asshole? Will Rean have to "die" like the others to complete their ritual? Have I already met the Grandmaster? How will I survive waiting a year or more for answers?

CSIV announcement WHEN.

Deleted member 18400 · Dec 1, 2019

I know this is the third games OT, but I finally got sick of waiting for a sale and paid full price for the digital version of the first game on PSN.

Played through the prologue chapters and I'm very interested. Why does this game have such a dope looking menu....

Deleted member 9746 · Dec 1, 2019

Arcade55 said:
I know this is the third games OT, but I finally got sick of waiting for a sale and paid full price for the digital version of the first game on PSN.

Played through the prologue chapters and I'm very interested. Why does this game have such a dope looking menu....

Nice! Hope you enjoy it x

Deleted member 437 · Dec 1, 2019

Arcade55 said:
I know this is the third games OT, but I finally got sick of waiting for a sale and paid full price for the digital version of the first game on PSN.

Played through the prologue chapters and I'm very interested. Why does this game have such a dope looking menu....

Nice! Enjoy!

NOW DON'T COME BACK UNTIL YOU BEAT 3. This is not the place for you lol.

Deleted member 17627 · Dec 1, 2019

Haven't beaten the second one yet, but delving into spoilers (never really cared about them), I got a question:

Why is everyone in Ouroboros kind of an idiot? (For lack of a better term) It feels like everyone besides Shirley and Campanella don't even know why they are in this organization anyways.

Jannyish · Dec 2, 2019

I'm STILL not done but I think I might be what is halfway through the final dungeon

I beat Shirley, Siegfried, Sharon and the Jaeger King. It was kinda funny cause I swapped out Kurt, who is at 104% EVA for me, nothing really hits him except S-Crafts and Arts. So they managed to get 3 out of 4 of my active attack party down and then all 4 of them tried really hard to kill Kurt, but it was just 2 minutes straight of them missing and Kurt's CP regenerating and me spamming his S-Break as a result cause I wanted to get it over with lol.

But I am really really mad with Sharon. First she gives Rean that speech about how her love for the Reinfors family will never disappear and now she's like "fuck yeah contract is over forget about Sharon I can be Kreuger again". I mean clearly there is more to that, but it really makes me mad.

What makes me even more mad tho is Alisa's insistence on bringing her back to the family. Reminds me of their insistence on bringing Crow back to Class 7 which was also... Like he killed a politics dude (or tried to), he ain't coming back to school, Rean, mate. In this case it annoys me even more cause the betrayal is much more personal (rather than just fighting them cause she needs to to reach her goals, Sharon seems to revel in telling Alisa she never cared more than once). Like if I was Alisa I would be furious in a way that wouldn't make me want to have her back anyways, but whatever. Whatever Falcom.

Anyways, hoping I can finish later today. And then be shook by the ending and read some of you guys' posts on said ending that I had to skip over the past weeks.

Kromeo · Dec 2, 2019

King of Dreamland said:
Haven't beaten the second one yet, but delving into spoilers (never really cared about them), I got a question:

Why is everyone in Ouroboros kind of an idiot? (For lack of a better term) It feels like everyone besides Shirley and Campanella don't even know why they are in this organization anyways.

Their motives have mostly been nonsense going back into Sky 2, just something you have to accept with this series lol. I think that's true for most jrpgs honestly

Richardi · Dec 2, 2019

Kromeo said:
Their motives have mostly been nonsense going back into Sky 2, just something you have to accept with this series lol. I think that's true for most jrpgs honestly

The most common motive is muh grandmaster, boy she/he must be incredibly charismatic.

Holundrian · Dec 2, 2019

Kromeo said:
Their motives have mostly been nonsense going back into Sky 2, just something you have to accept with this series lol. I think that's true for most jrpgs honestly

I disagree. But also Sen 4 reveals something about that. It could still turn out to be quite nonsense but at least the terminology used makes me associate their role to something specific from our world.

Sen4 spoiler

Ourouboros role being revealed as observers makes me think that it's a function in the cycle of zemuria and that the act of observing itself carries significance similar to how Observing electrons/light go through the double slit influences their behavior(#Quantum Mechanics). I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with some weird allegory to that and that being important in their world. But yeah just speculation could still be unsatisfying or something different.

Orion · Dec 2, 2019

Jannyish said:
I'm STILL not done but I think I might be what is halfway through the final dungeon

I beat Shirley, Siegfried, Sharon and the Jaeger King. It was kinda funny cause I swapped out Kurt, who is at 104% EVA for me, nothing really hits him except S-Crafts and Arts. So they managed to get 3 out of 4 of my active attack party down and then all 4 of them tried really hard to kill Kurt, but it was just 2 minutes straight of them missing and Kurt's CP regenerating and me spamming his S-Break as a result cause I wanted to get it over with lol.

But I am really really mad with Sharon. First she gives Rean that speech about how her love for the Reinfors family will never disappear and now she's like "fuck yeah contract is over forget about Sharon I can be Kreuger again". I mean clearly there is more to that, but it really makes me mad.

What makes me even more mad tho is Alisa's insistence on bringing her back to the family. Reminds me of their insistence on bringing Crow back to Class 7 which was also... Like he killed a politics dude (or tried to), he ain't coming back to school, Rean, mate. In this case it annoys me even more cause the betrayal is much more personal (rather than just fighting them cause she needs to to reach her goals, Sharon seems to revel in telling Alisa she never cared more than once). Like if I was Alisa I would be furious in a way that wouldn't make me want to have her back anyways, but whatever. Whatever Falcom.

Anyways, hoping I can finish later today. And then be shook by the ending and read some of you guys' posts on said ending that I had to skip over the past weeks.

Not to brag but I managed to wipe them out before they even touched me lol. It's crazy how easily you can break the game by the end. Fortunately I love being op though.

I agree that the Alisa/Sharon drama kinda fell flat. I was expecting a lot more hurt and anger from Alisa, and a better explanation from Sharon. I'm pretty sure Sharon was just doing that anime thing where she lies her ass off and acts evil to make it easier for Alisa to sever ties with her, and I guess Alisa believes that too. I can only assume she's rejoined Ouroboros out of some sense of debt, but yeah, after she went out of her way to emphasize how much she loves and is loyal to the Reinford family, it just looks really shitty.

lucancel · Dec 2, 2019

Cs3 chapter 1&2 problem Is the timing of ouroburos. They seem to wait for class 7 just to meet them lol

Deleted member 17627 · Dec 2, 2019

Kromeo said:
Their motives have mostly been nonsense going back into Sky 2, just something you have to accept with this series lol. I think that's true for most jrpgs honestly

Richardi said:
The most common motive is muh grandmaster, boy she/he must be incredibly charismatic.

That's kind of unfortunate, given that the world building is so strong in every other regard with this series. Although most folks have told me going into Trails, that the villains would be the weakest aspect of them.

Palette Swap · Dec 2, 2019

The one thing I'm bracing for is the reveal of the Orpheus Final Plan, who the Grandmaster is and their motivations. After a 10+ game buildup, there's a high likelihood it will be underwhelming or convoluted gibberish. I read Holundrian 's spoiler because why not, and I guess that's the kind of out of left field yet simple explanation that would satisfy me.
The thing that's gonna be hard to reconcile is how an organization with a ton of awful people and methods could somehow have a benevolent leader pursuing a non-nefarious end goal. That's definitely an angle they've been working, as some Anguis aren't entirely bad people, and they're part of the Society because they absolutely believe in the Grandmaster and their vision.

Orion said:
Not to brag but I managed to wipe them out before they even touched me lol. It's crazy how easily you can break the game by the end. Fortunately I love being op though.

I agree that the Alisa/Sharon drama kinda fell flat. I was expecting a lot more hurt and anger from Alisa, and a better explanation from Sharon. I'm pretty sure Sharon was just doing that anime thing where she lies her ass off and acts evil to make it easier for Alisa to sever ties with her, and I guess Alisa believes that too. I can only assume she's rejoined Ouroboros out of some sense of debt, but yeah, after she went out of her way to emphasize how much she loves and is loyal to the Reinford family, it just looks really shitty.

Yeah, I was in disbelief when I destroyed that particular boss fight, they never really got to play when the first S-Craft broke half of them, and the second one did the rest. I think that particular fight is specifically unbalanced.

Korigama · Dec 2, 2019

King of Dreamland said:
That's kind of unfortunate, given that the world building is so strong in every other regard with this series. Although most folks have told me going into Trails, that the villains would be the weakest aspect of them.

The way matters related to antagonists are handled in Trails often tends to be dissatisfying, at least. Not always, but enough to bug me.

Palette Swap · Dec 2, 2019

Korigama said:
The way matters related to antagonists are handled in Trails often tends to be dissatisfying, at least. Not always, but enough to bug me.

One thing that thing that kind of bugs me, and this is about CS3 as much as the rest of the series, is how being an irredeemable asshole is the exception more than the norm with these villains. I like that they tend to have a nuanced approach, but it's becoming a bit too much when they that most antagonists could ultimately be allies or not bad people when they're collectively responsible for a ton of heinous shit.

jman2050 · Dec 2, 2019

Jannyish said:
I'm STILL not done but I think I might be what is halfway through the final dungeon

I beat Shirley, Siegfried, Sharon and the Jaeger King. It was kinda funny cause I swapped out Kurt, who is at 104% EVA for me, nothing really hits him except S-Crafts and Arts. So they managed to get 3 out of 4 of my active attack party down and then all 4 of them tried really hard to kill Kurt, but it was just 2 minutes straight of them missing and Kurt's CP regenerating and me spamming his S-Break as a result cause I wanted to get it over with lol.

But I am really really mad with Sharon. First she gives Rean that speech about how her love for the Reinfors family will never disappear and now she's like "fuck yeah contract is over forget about Sharon I can be Kreuger again". I mean clearly there is more to that, but it really makes me mad.

What makes me even more mad tho is Alisa's insistence on bringing her back to the family. Reminds me of their insistence on bringing Crow back to Class 7 which was also... Like he killed a politics dude (or tried to), he ain't coming back to school, Rean, mate. In this case it annoys me even more cause the betrayal is much more personal (rather than just fighting them cause she needs to to reach her goals, Sharon seems to revel in telling Alisa she never cared more than once). Like if I was Alisa I would be furious in a way that wouldn't make me want to have her back anyways, but whatever. Whatever Falcom.

Anyways, hoping I can finish later today. And then be shook by the ending and read some of you guys' posts on said ending that I had to skip over the past weeks.

Orion said:
Not to brag but I managed to wipe them out before they even touched me lol. It's crazy how easily you can break the game by the end. Fortunately I love being op though.

I agree that the Alisa/Sharon drama kinda fell flat. I was expecting a lot more hurt and anger from Alisa, and a better explanation from Sharon. I'm pretty sure Sharon was just doing that anime thing where she lies her ass off and acts evil to make it easier for Alisa to sever ties with her, and I guess Alisa believes that too. I can only assume she's rejoined Ouroboros out of some sense of debt, but yeah, after she went out of her way to emphasize how much she loves and is loyal to the Reinford family, it just looks really shitty.

I think the setup they're clearly going for is

Alisa forming a new "contract" with Sharon herself to replace the one her mom had, both as a token of goodwill and furthering her ongoing character arc of asserting her independence from her mom. The way they go about it, what with Sharon trying to push her away (for her own good) and Alisa not having any of it is very anime storytelling that some people might not roll with, so I can I see how it might turn some people off

Yu Narukami · Dec 2, 2019

Arcade55 said:
I know this is the third games OT, but I finally got sick of waiting for a sale and paid full price for the digital version of the first game on PSN.

Played through the prologue chapters and I'm very interested. Why does this game have such a dope looking menu....

Hopefully you don't live in Europe because the game got a discount starting today.

Jannyish · Dec 2, 2019

So... 175 hours later (though I think around 10 of those were idle time) & I have finally finished it.

Falcom really gone and pulled an Infinity War before Infinity War was even a thing, didn't they (going from Japanese release date). What. The. Heck. (Thoughts, without having read any of the ending thoughts in here (so unfiltered) , in the spoiler below.)

I screamed "wow" and "what the hell" at least 30 separate times, a pillow was tossed at the TV, I added at least 500 steps to my pedometer because I was pacing my apartment... WHAT THE HELL MAN.

Never in my life have I felt worse for a fictional character than I do right now for Rean. Not even for Luke from Tales of the Abyss cause at least he was an ass at first!

Poor Rean losing control was totally understandable, it happens to the best of us, but most of us don't have a demon or some such to deal with that we need to keep in check so uuh. His reaction was human and now I would not be surprised if he just reverted back to beginning of CS2-Rean, what with the self-worth issues and blaming himself.

Literally when the game had me beat the Holy Beast while in Ogre Mode in Valimar? I just... Went and had a tea and let the screen sit there waiting for me to press for a good 10 minutes cause I was seriously contemplating just not doing it lol. Of course I wanted to know what will happen so alas... Here we are.

Things I did not expect (aside from that ending) ... Rufus not being Lord Albarea's son was totally out of left field for me, what with him an Jusis looking so similar. Also I did not see Osborne having a divine knight coming at all... For some reason.

Also...Yay? At Crow's memories returning? Is he on our side now?

Protect Altina at all costs! Literally she has become one of my favorite characters. I am sad about Millium (I knew she'd come around) , but what I do not get is why there was even a need to create Altina when Millium was already capable of doing the same thing?!

I... Don't think Olivert, Victor and Toval are dead. For some reason. Also Alfin faints too much.

What is Musse's/Mildrid's angle here? Why did they take Ash? How is Vita involved?

Also Ouroborous don't seem half-bad when you see them react to the Crimson Wing's exploding. But the Stahlritter didn't even know what they were doing? Stupid blind followers are stupid.

Claire can go rot in hell, same for Sharon. I mean all of them can but I feel personally attacked by those two betrayals.

Sigh y'all remember when this Arc was just a bunch of teenagers going to a military school living their merry school life, without a care in the world aside from grades and maybe social class divides?! Yeah, me neither.

I... NISA, out of respect for the work you did here (let's not discuss quality compared to Xseed, I don't want that discussion, regardless of that they did clearly put work into this), I will refrain from importing the Japanese version of CS4. But you better not disappoint me and put it out there as soon as you possibly can (without sacrificing quality of course).

jman2050 said:
I think the setup they're clearly going for is

Alisa forming a new "contract" with Sharon herself to replace the one her mom had, both as a token of goodwill and furthering her ongoing character arc of asserting her independence from her mom. The way they go about it, what with Sharon trying to push her away (for her own good) and Alisa not having any of it is very anime storytelling that some people might not roll with, so I can I see how it might turn some people off

Yeah I think that's what bothers me. Nothing wrong with the story going there but Alisa at least could have been mad to the point of wanting nothing to do with her for a while there. I mean this is the woman who was mad at Rean for an accident for WEEKS. I know she has mellowed out but COME ON.

Deleted member 26768 · Dec 2, 2019

Jannyish said:
So... 175 hours later (though I think around 10 of those were idle time) & I have finally finished it.

Falcom really gone and pulled an Infinity War before Infinity War was even a thing, didn't they (going from Japanese release date). What. The. Heck. (Thoughts, without having read any of the ending thoughts in here (so unfiltered) , in the spoiler below.)

I screamed "wow" and "what the hell" at least 30 separate times, a pillow was tossed at the TV, I added at least 500 steps to my pedometer because I was pacing my apartment... WHAT THE HELL MAN.

Never in my life have I felt worse for a fictional character than I do right now for Rean. Not even for Luke from Tales of the Abyss cause at least he was an ass at first!

Poor Rean losing control was totally understandable, it happens to the best of us, but most of us don't have a demon or some such to deal with that we need to keep in check so uuh. His reaction was human and now I would not be surprised if he just reverted back to beginning of CS2-Rean, what with the self-worth issues and blaming himself.

Literally when the game had me beat the Holy Beast while in Ogre Mode in Valimar? I just... Went and had a tea and let the screen sit there waiting for me to press for a good 10 minutes cause I was seriously contemplating just not doing it lol. Of course I wanted to know what will happen so alas... Here we are.

Things I did not expect (aside from that ending) ... Rufus not being Lord Albarea's son was totally out of left field for me, what with him an Jusis looking so similar. Also I did not see Osborne having a divine knight coming at all... For some reason.

Also...Yay? At Crow's memories returning? Is he on our side now?

Protect Altina at all costs! Literally she has become one of my favorite characters. I am sad about Millium (I knew she'd come around) , but what I do not get is why there was even a need to create Altina when Millium was already capable of doing the same thing?!

I... Don't think Olivert, Victor and Toval are dead. For some reason. Also Alfin faints too much.

What is Musse's/Mildrid's angle here? Why did they take Ash? How is Vita involved?

Also Ouroborous don't seem half-bad when you see them react to the Crimson Wing's exploding. But the Stahlritter didn't even know what they were doing? Stupid blind followers are stupid.

Claire can go rot in hell, same for Sharon. I mean all of them can but I feel personally attacked by those two betrayals.

Sigh y'all remember when this Arc was just a bunch of teenagers going to a military school living their merry school life, without a care in the world aside from grades and maybe social class divides?! Yeah, me neither.

I... NISA, out of respect for the work you did here (let's not discuss quality compared to Xseed, I don't want that discussion, regardless of that they did clearly put work into this), I will refrain from importing the Japanese version of CS4. But you better not disappoint me and put it out there as soon as you possibly can (without sacrificing quality of course).

Yeah I think that's what bothers me. Nothing wrong with the story going there but Alisa at least could have been mad to the point of wanting nothing to do with her for a while there. I mean this is the woman who was mad at Rean for an accident for WEEKS. I know she has mellowed out but COME ON.

grats on finishing :)

altina was created because there was no surefire way of making sure any of the models was ready for becoming their final form, they already went through over seventy models getting there by this time. And there also was Millium being a big asset to Osborne as is.

Jannyish · Dec 2, 2019

nivorae said:
grats on finishing :)

altina was created because there was no surefire way of making sure any of the models was ready for becoming their final form, they already went through over seventy models getting there by this time. And there also was Millium being a big asset to Osborne as is.

Thank you, it truly does feel like an accomplishment after all this time lol

I was aware them being model 73 and 74 (was it?) means there were more than 70 models before them. However didn't they run a test or something with that panzer Soldat to find out if Altina was compatible, or what was that scene all about if not? I just figured they'd run a test on all models, then just send those not fit for the purpose off to do other things, like they sent Millium to Osborne. I thought they'd have tested Millium on that front before giving her to Osborne at all. That was just my assumptions tho, because they seemed so sure Altina would be able to do it like their test confirmed that, so I thought they had already done the same to Millium and deemed her unfit for the job....

I am just now realizing but seeing how he is synced to a combat Shell, that clearly means Georg is OZ - something too....

Palette Swap · Dec 2, 2019

I finished it yesterday and should post longer impressions one of these days (I loved it overall), but one thing that struck me was how the game goes out of its way to expose a ton of things, often at length, while some of the most meaningful parts to me were generally offhand remarks dropped in a couple of sentences.

I'm a sucker for Kiseki lore so it makes sense that I'd obsess over details like

that assassin order Sharon and an Anguis came from, the fact Ines was a bracer and Ennea a victim of D:G Cult, or Aurelia and Vita working for Musse.
Speaking of Musse, I get that they tried to pull another Olivert, but they dialed it to eleven, and her schtick with Rean gets really old, particularly when she's actually an interesting character once you ignore that part.

Jannyish said:
Thank you, it truly does feel like an accomplishment after all this time lol

I was aware them being model 73 and 74 (was it?) means there were more than 70 models before them. However didn't they run a test or something with that panzer Soldat to find out if Altina was compatible, or what was that scene all about if not? I just figured they'd run a test on all models, then just send those not fit for the purpose off to do other things, like they sent Millium to Osborne. I thought they'd have tested Millium on that front before giving her to Osborne at all. That was just my assumptions tho, because they seemed so sure Altina would be able to do it like their test confirmed that, so I thought they had already done the same to Millium and deemed her unfit for the job....

I am just now realizing but seeing how he is synced to a combat Shell, that clearly means Georg is OZ - something too....

I don't know about that last part.

I just took it as gnomes having the tech to interface with shells. Like that watcher sphere that's always hanging around them. It's the same tech as the Oz series uses, but it's never spelled out you have to be a homunculus created for that purpose to be able to use it.

Deleted member 18400 · Dec 2, 2019

Yu Narukami said:
Hopefully you don't live in Europe because the game got a discount starting today.

NA, and I saw that, it made me nervous until I saw it hadn't come through on the NA store.

Either way I'm already 8 hours in and the game is awesome so it was worth the 40.

Jannyish · Dec 2, 2019

Went back 10 pages and read a few reactions to the ending and some I just have to comment on, so here we go...

SolVanderlyn said:
When The Nameless One went crazy and attacked Rean in Valimar and you heard him screaming with the engines blaring is one of the only times I've felt real danger/concern for a character in a Trails game.

And it only escalated from there.

I REALLY hope IV doesn't take the milquetoast approach to the "end of the world" thing they had going on at the end there. The Civil War felt like all the important stuff happened off screen... again, except for the ending.

But man. What an ending. Still thinking about it.

Yes!! In the midst of all this craziness I actually forgot to mention it, but that, what was it, one second? That really made me flinch. This whole series feels like they fight... But... Mostly don't actually get hurt from it, even if some S-Crafts, visually, look rather brutal, and most characters are just ordinary humans. But that split second there I was actually scared for his life for a second there, irrational as it is, cause a) he is the protagonist, b) his body wasn't actually being hurt, he just felt the pain because divine knight mechanics (which... That is a serious misconstruction cause doesn't that make the pilots of a divine knight more vulnerable compared to those of even a panzer Soldat? But that's besides the point)... Oh and did I mention that c) he is the protagonist?

But still. A powerful one second right there.

Dust said:
Also I am so fucking mad at certain characters after ending sequence.

Ironbloods or not, Lechter and Claire were REALLY fucking okay with end of the world plan? A giant evil cocoon appears and you are "sure, okay"? I am not forgiving any fuck for siding with Osborne after this, Crow might get a pass since he was not really himself, although I am not sure what was he trying to pull at the end (was he trying to save Black or trying to subdue Rean).

Anyway!
Fuck Sharon
Fuck Claire
Fuck Lechter
Fuck Rufus
SUPER Fuck George
ULTIMATE Fuck Cedric

GoemonTheNinja said:
If Rean goes all "It's no worries Your Highness, I am not worthy to shake your hand!" again, I will get angry. Seriously the whole way through Cedric was being a dick, and Rean was all "Oh but it's alright, he's a Prince!" Fuck off, he gets special treatment because he's the Prince, it's clear as day. He's getting fucking carried by Neidhardt, yeah sure tell your students that they can still beat him but don't act like they're taking crazy pills because they think the Prince is a dick. I hope Kurt kicks his ass in 4.

Glad I'm not the only one in the "they're irredeemable" category. "He's really charismatic and he was nice to me when no one else was" excuse can only carry you so long. If they're alright with the current plan, they can go to hell.

Effective villains though, I'm still angry and it's been days since I completed the game!

Regarding the romances :

In games like these, I prefer the game to just set me a romance partner and let it be part of the story. It worked very well in Trails in the Sky and I think Rean/Alisa as a romance is really good and could be fleshed out even more if they just commited to it. But as it stands now they give you a semblance of choice, even though the romance with Alisa is still always on no matter what you do. As a player, I'll just take the character that's the most attractive to me (in my case it's Sara), but as someone pointed out earlier, Rean isn't a blank slate. So it feels weird to choose things like that. Although I've said it before but the way that they laugh at the whole harem thing in 3 really amused me, it lead to really funny scenes and comments from characters. The best payoff to this IMO was the scene in the bath with all the girls and LeGuin arriving. This scene really made me laugh.

And all the times with Juna being appalled, Kurt being ashamed and Altina being straight savage with some of her remarks was great. "Scandalous".

Just give me 4.

YES THANK U. All of them can go fuck themselves. Claire, Rufus, Lechter (Millium is redeemed): Look I get he helped you and all but let me put it like this... I love my dad and he is my father by blood but if he went "hahaha let us unleash a dreadful curse upon this country so people will become awful and better themselves through that, sounds like a solid good plan yes!!!??!?!" I'd sure as hell wouldn't go along with that at all, in fact I would probably call the cops and psychiatrists on him myself, father or no. Charisma or no.

There is no excuse for this, none. All three of them are intelligent human beings who ought to have figured out what Osborne was planning was down right evil. They just decided to go along with it. Claire and Lechter seem to feel bad about it, but that actually makes it worse cause it is meant to show the player that they are not inherently evil or cool with this, like Rufus seems to be, in which case their going along with this regardless is even more unforgivable. They're not crazy. They're just cowards.

Cedric is just...wow. Fuck you man. Poor Alfin. She only really has her mother left, assuming Olivert is really dead.

The worst part is he is the next in line for the throne and I just.... I really hope Kurt slices his head off in the next game, I wouldn't even feel bad.

Sharon...... Yeah fuck her too. Though on another level than the Iron bloods, cause I don't actually know who this grandmaster is and why Ouroborous followa them, so...

Fuck George too cause he hurt Towa, and you don't come back from hurting the most precious woman in the Arc.

Open Wound said:
I was one of those, so thank you. I was very curious if the new class VII could help newcommers to keep themselves from being too lost.

After finishing the game, newcommers shouldn't have much trouble with keeping up with the plot, although they might have lore and character overload, but to me it seems that you would lose way too much in regards of emotional investment. I also thought it would get a tad frustrating seeing Rean know about stuff that new class VII doesn't and they just go "I don't know what's going on", so to me they didn't seem to be that great as gateway characters even if they should help with that.

Regardless, as long as people are able to enjoy the experience, I'm more than satisfied. And the slow pace probably does wonders in helping people get invested in the characters even if some of them, like Rean, have massive amounts of baggage attached. I don't know, as a fan I'm probably among the most relaxed with how necessary previous arcs are for each new arc (I always thought that people were vastly overselling the narrative relevance of Sky and Crossbell for CSIII, and playing it very much confirmed it), but even then I'm 8 games deep into this mess, I find it that it's really hard for me to separate my long time investment in the franchise from the experience itself, so at this point I'm thinking is best to just let people start wherever they want to start, and if the Trails formula clicks, then they will probably enjoy it regardless.

The gatekeeping in the trails community is real bad. I do agree the ideal way to experience these is to play all of them in release order, but I for one am glad I haven't listened to all those people or I wouldn't have played any of the games at all to this day.

I am sure it is cooler seeing old characters show up in 3D when you are actually familiar with them, and knowing the details behind some events described, but that is the thing... It makes CS3 more emotional, but not more comprehensible. It is plenty comprehensible even without the emotion to go along with it.

Palette Swap said:
I finished it yesterday and should post longer impressions one of these days (I loved it overall), but one thing that struck me was how the game goes out of its way to expose a ton of things, often at length, while some of the most meaningful parts to me were generally offhand remarks dropped in a couple of sentences.

I'm a sucker for Kiseki lore so it makes sense that I'd obsess over details like

that assassin order Sharon and an Anguis came from, the fact Ines was a bracer and Ennea a victim of D:G Cult, or Aurelia and Vita working for Musse.
Speaking of Musse, I get that they tried to pull another Olivert, but they dialed it to eleven, and her schtick with Rean gets really old, particularly when she's actually an interesting character once you ignore that part.

I don't know about that last part.

I just took it as gnomes having the tech to interface with shells. Like that watcher sphere that's always hanging around them. It's the same tech as the Oz series uses, but it's never spelled out you have to be a homunculus created for that purpose to be able to use it.

Hmmm I'd need to watch a YouTube video to be sure but didn't Alberich say they needed a human, who could perfectly sync with a combat shell, human and machine at the same time, to create the sword? That kind of made me think that normal humans wouldn't be compatible with Vom at Shell syncing, but I might be wrong.

Basileus777 · Dec 2, 2019

Palette Swap said:
One thing that thing that kind of bugs me, and this is about CS3 as much as the rest of the series, is how being an irredeemable asshole is the exception more than the norm with these villains. I like that they tend to have a nuanced approach, but it's becoming a bit too much when they that most antagonists could ultimately be allies or not bad people when they're collectively responsible for a ton of heinous shit.

Weissmann is still the best villain in the series.

Niks · Dec 2, 2019

Some questions about the ending (pls no CS4 spoilers)

- what is THE "phantasmal blaze plan" and what did osbourne meant when he said he stole it?
- why did ouroboros and Ousborne joined up as allies? (Ouroboros wants the sept-terrion of steel and Osborne wants to lift the curse on Erebonia)
- what was the point of the Aion tests?
- Is Rean really a zombie?
- Why is Valimar the lamest looking divine knight?
- Where is Kevin?

Deleted member 17627 · Dec 2, 2019

Korigama said:
The way matters related to antagonists are handled in Trails often tends to be dissatisfying, at least. Not always, but enough to bug me.

It's an interesting situation because I'd say their actions are much more interesting than the characters themselves, feels like it's usually the opposite.

Palette Swap said:
One thing that thing that kind of bugs me, and this is about CS3 as much as the rest of the series, is how being an irredeemable asshole is the exception more than the norm with these villains. I like that they tend to have a nuanced approach, but it's becoming a bit too much when they that most antagonists could ultimately be allies or not bad people when they're collectively responsible for a ton of heinous shit.

The whole team swapping every five seconds is unbelievably obnoxious. I think my friends joking about how no one ever dies in this series because otherwise they'd lose out on a possible playable character lol.

I still don't get Misty's motives after watching so many cutscenes and reading the wiki.

Basileus777 · Dec 2, 2019

Affiliations in this series are written like pro-wrestling. They are just there to set up the inevitable face and heel turns. And no one remembers what anyone did in the past once they become a face again.

HosannaExcelsis · Dec 2, 2019

Basileus777 said:
Affiliations in this series are written like pro-wrestling. They are just there to set up the inevitable face and heel turns. And no one remembers what anyone did in the past once they become a face again.

That's a good analogy. Sometimes this series is a bit too fond of twists for its own good.

Basileus777 · Dec 2, 2019

HosannaExcelsis said:
That's a good analogy. Sometimes this series is a bit too fond of twists for its own good.

It's part of the problem with keeping this huge cast of characters around for so long. You need to give them things to do and you end up writing these overly elaborate schemes where characters flip flop in loyalty all the time. It's probably why this is at its worst in the Cold Steel arc with its 4 games and ever expanding scope.

Derkon · Dec 2, 2019

Finally got around to finishing this tonight and damn...I'm shook lol. Don't think I've felt this way about the end of a video game in a long time. Still processing everything and catching up on this thread a bit to gather my thoughts.

Gimme that Cold Steel IV now!

Orion · Dec 2, 2019

Niks said:
Some questions about the ending (pls no CS4 spoilers)

- what is THE "phantasmal blaze plan" and what did osbourne meant when he said he stole it?
- why did ouroboros and Ousborne joined up as allies? (Ouroboros wants the sept-terrion of steel and Osborne wants to lift the curse on Erebonia)
- what was the point of the Aion tests?
- Is Rean really a zombie?
- Why is Valimar the lamest looking divine knight?
- Where is Kevin?

I'm no expert but I'll try my best.

- Not sure but I loved when Rean lost it on Osborne and was like "WTF IS IT??!"
- I believe unleashing the curse will free the sept-terrion of steel, aka the Great One, so their goals are aligned for now.
- Rean needed a reason to yell "Heed my call... VALIMAR, THE ASHEN KNIGHT!"
- I don't think so. But I'm worried the other zombie divine knight users want to turn him into one. He does have Osborne's dark heart though so maybe? He might also be a vampire since granny Rose bit him for some weird reason.
- Gotta admit I did roll my eyes at daddy Osborne's knight making Valimar look like a helpless child lol.
- Um... top secret church stuff?

dojo32161 · Dec 3, 2019

Palette Swap said:
I like that they tend to have a nuanced approach, but it's becoming a bit too much when they that most antagonists could ultimately be allies or not bad people when they're collectively responsible for a ton of heinous shit.

I only really had a problem with that in Azure.

Like, Mariabell and Ian were both responsible for the attack on Crossbell which led to countless deaths and the characters acted so nice to her after she announced she was becoming an Anguis??? Like, what the fuck. We didn't learn jack about most of her motive there, so it was just odd. This also applies to all the other villains present at the Azure Tree, I get the characters closest to those antagonists being a bit softer on them, but, hey, guys, people fucking died in the attack, why are you all being pretty soft on them? Wald was honestly the most disappointing character in the duology, joiningthem because he wanted to be stronger, and what's does he get for doing all that? Gets to join the church for some... stupid reason.

ara · Dec 3, 2019

Palette Swap said:
One thing that thing that kind of bugs me, and this is about CS3 as much as the rest of the series, is how being an irredeemable asshole is the exception more than the norm with these villains. I like that they tend to have a nuanced approach, but it's becoming a bit too much when they that most antagonists could ultimately be allies or not bad people when they're collectively responsible for a ton of heinous shit.

By far one of my least favorite parts of these games for sure. It's fine to have the occasional villain turn good (even though I hate the trope personally), but it's just ridiculous in Trails. Really waters down a lot of the potential stakes and intensity and, ultimately, my investment in the stories.

Deleted member 26768 · Dec 3, 2019

Jannyish said:
Thank you, it truly does feel like an accomplishment after all this time lol

I was aware them being model 73 and 74 (was it?) means there were more than 70 models before them. However didn't they run a test or something with that panzer Soldat to find out if Altina was compatible, or what was that scene all about if not? I just figured they'd run a test on all models, then just send those not fit for the purpose off to do other things, like they sent Millium to Osborne. I thought they'd have tested Millium on that front before giving her to Osborne at all. That was just my assumptions tho, because they seemed so sure Altina would be able to do it like their test confirmed that, so I thought they had already done the same to Millium and deemed her unfit for the job....

I am just now realizing but seeing how he is synced to a combat Shell, that clearly means Georg is OZ - something too....

we don't know what happened with the prior models, however given that we know this is a plan Alberich worked towards for centuries i read it as that they have been making models and fine tuning them since the middle ages, after he stole knowledge of the homunculi from the Alchemists in Crossbell. But in that same regard Millium and Altina both had the same specs if i'm not mistaken, so they knew when one could so it the other could do it too i assume. But like i said Millium became too much of a vital asset for Osborne's personal goals and machinations as the chancellor. Altina on other hand was just an anonymous agent.
What i think is a big parameter with their compatibility that is never spelled out though is that i think a major factor is their emotional growth.

Niks said:
Some questions about the ending (pls no CS4 spoilers)

- what is THE "phantasmal blaze plan" and what did osbourne meant when he said he stole it?
- why did ouroboros and Ousborne joined up as allies? (Ouroboros wants the sept-terrion of steel and Osborne wants to lift the curse on Erebonia)
- what was the point of the Aion tests?
- Is Rean really a zombie?
- Why is Valimar the lamest looking divine knight?
- Where is Kevin?

- we literally don't know what the phantasmal blaze plan is at this point, the only thing the game hints at is that the goal always was the same but Vita's version would have been a lot slower with less casualties.
- because they both benefit from each other at the moment
- just data, novartis trying to get them to work without a sept terrion's power infusion perhaps?
- what do you mean by zombie?
- he looks kino after going berserk tho
- kevin is in calvard, his main post with a brief interlude for Trails in the Sky and the ending of Ao

lucancel · Dec 3, 2019

Do they explain the birdcage thing further in the game? I mean i am at chapter 3 and i do not know who ordered It (maybe Osborne) and why and how It was taken off. I also read that It was directed by the icy Maiden but really Claire alone was enought to stop arios, Lloyd and the other important people in crossbell?

I would like to know just if the game will bring answers or not.
Thanks

Palette Swap · Dec 3, 2019

lucancel said:
Do they explain the birdcage thing further in the game? I mean i am at chapter 3 and i do not know who ordered It (maybe Osborne) and why and how It was taken off. I also read that It was directed by the icy Maiden but really Claire alone was enought to stop arios, Lloyd and the other important people in crossbell?

I would like to know just if the game will bring answers or not.
Thanks

It might be me, but I felt the end of Chapter 2 explained it well enough.

I think Rufus is the one who explains it: the Ironbloods designed the operation to keep Crossbell's heroes in Mishellam, so that they couldn't intervene and save the day. That explains all the cutscenes where you see Mishellam being cordoned off, while everyone wonders where the McDonnels are.

The overall idea is to make everyone forget the SSS, because their greatest asset is that they're viewed as heroes of the people. That makes them threats to the colonial power, and the best way Erebonia has found to snuff them out is to make them irrelevant.

I don't remember this being explained elsewhere in greater detail in the game.

Kromeo · Dec 3, 2019

I wonder how long they'll leave it before they reveal the Grandmaster (assuming they haven't already in CS 3 or 4)

shimon · Dec 3, 2019

Kromeo said:
I wonder how long they'll leave it before they reveal the Grandmaster (assuming they haven't already in CS 3 or 4)

They did in 4.

Deleted member 26768 · Dec 3, 2019

shimon said:
They did in 4.

i wouldn't go that far

they only showed her appearance, yet deliberately hid half her face

Richardi · Dec 3, 2019

shimon said:
They did in 4.

Oh shit! about time

iRAWRasaurus · Dec 3, 2019

lucancel · Dec 3, 2019

Finally a switch port. Better late than never...
Dayone. By the time It comes i will be playing chapter 4 probably lol

Jannyish · Dec 3, 2019

iRAWRasaurus said:

Finally they have seen the light. Not that I don't like my ps4, but the game isn't so graphically demanding that they couldn't make it work on a Switch, and portability enables a lot of people to play such lengthy games who otherwise wouldn't be able to, so I'm glad it is happening.

P.S.: The port releasing in the West before Japan is also an indicator that NISA is handling the port. Which gives me faith in their faith in the franchise.

Balfour · Dec 3, 2019

Jannyish said:
Finally they have seen the light. Not that I don't like my ps4, but the game isn't so graphically demanding that they couldn't make it work on a Switch, and portability enables a lot of people to play such lengthy games who otherwise wouldn't be able to, so I'm glad it is happening.

P.S.: The port releasing in the West before Japan is also an indicator that NISA is handling the port. Which gives me faith in their faith in the franchise.

Nisa is the only reason any Falcom games exist on Switch

Falcom only makes games for Sony platforms. All ports are done by publishers and localization

shimon · Dec 3, 2019

nivorae said:
i wouldn't go that far

they only showed her appearance, yet deliberately hid half her face

Sure but hey, after so many games with nothing, I'll take it :)

iRAWRasaurus said:

Is this the final nail in the coffin for the pc version? Because if it was coming to pc as well why would they only announce the Switch version? I really hope I'm wrong on this one...

Deleted member 9746 · Dec 3, 2019

Very excited to see how chapter 4 will run on Switch, lol.

Korigama · Dec 3, 2019

iRAWRasaurus said:

I remember being mocked once either here or the old place for saying that Trails on Switch would sooner happen before the platform ever getting a mainline Persona port. I said it before NISA became involved with the series, but still feel rather vindicated nonetheless.

Either way, less excuses for people not playing it now, up to and including insisting on making the experience small and portable (never made much sense to me since I can't be bothered to concentrate while playing such games on the go and prefer a bigger screen).

Jannyish · Dec 3, 2019

Balfour said:
Nisa is the only reason any Falcom games exist on Switch

Falcom only makes games for Sony platforms. All ports are done by publishers and localization

I do wonder why, but it's their decision I guess. I can live with it since I own said platforms.

Korigama · Dec 3, 2019

Jannyish said:
I do wonder why, but it's their decision I guess. I can live with it since I own said platforms.

Limited resources and manpower. Other than no dev kits for Switch at Falcom, there are only around 62 people working there.

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