The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the TGA 2017 Game of the Year

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
Breath of the Wild places priority on its gameplay systems whereas the games you're thinking of are narrative based, so of course neither of these Nintendo games affect the overall direction AAA gaming is headed into. Nowadays I would say the biggest driving factor for innovation is actually the monetization model, it's arguably the thing that affects game design the most. Do you want Nintendo to be the leading force in this part of the industry and thus be relevant on a large scale ?

My point is that Nintendo with BotW is on the cutting edge of gameplay based open world games, but nobody else in the industry cares about this particular sub genre. If they did, they'd most definitely take notes from the new Zelda, but as it stands they're operating in a completely different spectrum of gaming which means Nintendo is essentially a non factor to them. No matter what it does or how ground breaking it is, it will always be ignored. It's like saying Persona 5 doesn't have an impact on gaming in terms of art direction, therefore it's not impressive. Well duh... a stylish anime game is as niche as it gets. Why would it? It's the best in its category though and the game to draw inspiration from if you're attempting a similar tone and style in your game.

It really really sucks that games like Horizon, Assassin's Creed and Fallout are the new baseline for gaming. So for Zelda to stand a chance in this conversation it needs to be 1000 times better than Nintendo's usual output. If you're like me who's looking at games from a mechanics-first perspective then a Nintendo game would win every year because they are that good and that far ahead of everyone else in what they do. Nintendo's competition are indies these days...
That's an impressive amount of words that don't really say anything... With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'. I'm still looking for actual reasoning as to why the game is so great, that doesn't focus on it being a Nintendo game or the Zelda franchise, and addresses the slew of criticisms around the shallow story, gameplay depth, weak characters, repetitive systems, surface level crafting, lack of dungeons and uninspiring boss design.
 

Sagadego17

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,393
Yes, very clearly. The game also shows tell tale signs of a troubled dev process, in particular finding its direction too late after being delayed too long (it honestly looks like the whole project was scrapped after its initial reveal during the year+ it was media dark before being re-revealed as breath of the wild with an engine change.... from the Zelda hd engine used for ww and tp, to a heavily modified xeno engine).

And still it deserves it. But thats just never good enough for the zealots is it? Cant have anything less then unadulturated praise and uncritical worship can we?
WTF are you talking about trouble Dev. Source? Or are you talking from you rear.
 

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One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,865
honestly looks like the whole project was scrapped after its initial reveal during the year+ it was media dark before being re-revealed as breath of the wild with an engine change.... from the Zelda hd engine used for ww and tp, to a heavily modified xeno engine.
Now this right here is a ass pull if I ever seen one.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,767
Yes, very clearly. The game also shows tell tale signs of a troubled dev process, in particular finding its direction too late after being delayed too long (it honestly looks like the whole project was scrapped after its initial reveal during the year+ it was media dark before being re-revealed as breath of the wild with an engine change.... from the Zelda hd engine used for ww and tp, to a heavily modified xeno engine).

And still it deserves it. But thats just never good enough for the zealots is it? Cant have anything less then unadulturated praise and uncritical worship can we?
That might be because the game isn't half finished. I don't see how it's "very clearly" half finished either, considering how much content was in the game and how long it took to come out. Also the game didn't have an engine change. What Nintendo showed off in 2012 was a tech demo, it was not representative of the final game. Breath of the Wild as far as we can see didn't change direction mid way into development and there's nothing there to back that up. People are hardly zealots for responding to you and calling out such claims
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,606
That's an impressive amount of words that don't really say anything... With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'. I'm still looking for actual reasoning as to why the game is so great, that doesn't focus on it being a Nintendo game or the Zelda franchise, and addresses the slew of criticisms around the shallow story, gameplay depth, weak characters, repetitive systems, surface level crafting, lack of dungeons and uninspiring boss design.
Please stop saying this soon, it's not acceptable around here and is a very quick way to get a warning just an FYI.
 

Jonneh

NintendoLife
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,474
UK
That's an impressive amount of words that don't really say anything... With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'. I'm still looking for actual reasoning as to why the game is so great, that doesn't focus on it being a Nintendo game or the Zelda franchise, and addresses the slew of criticisms around the shallow story, gameplay depth, weak characters, repetitive systems, surface level crafting, lack of dungeons and uninspiring boss design.
Please don't undermine users based on their avatars. For all you know he could play across all platforms but just enjoys Rosalina as a character.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,813
Not my game of the year, but in my top 5. It's a very polished, well-crafted adventure that deserves every bit of acclaim that it's receiving. While I'm not as high on it as others are, I can't point out a single thing (maybe the weapon degradation, but it's not that big of a deal) this game does wrong.
 

Elshoelace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,155
Yes, very clearly. The game also shows tell tale signs of a troubled dev process, in particular finding its direction too late after being delayed too long (it honestly looks like the whole project was scrapped after its initial reveal during the year+ it was media dark before being re-revealed as breath of the wild with an engine change.... from the Zelda hd engine used for ww and tp, to a heavily modified xeno engine).

And still it deserves it. But thats just never good enough for the zealots is it? Cant have anything less then unadulturated praise and uncritical worship can we?
Pretty sure it was getting pushed because it was getting revamped for Switch and waiting for the Switch to get released.
 

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,164
Yes, very clearly. The game also shows tell tale signs of a troubled dev process, in particular finding its direction too late after being delayed too long (it honestly looks like the whole project was scrapped after its initial reveal during the year+ it was media dark before being re-revealed as breath of the wild with an engine change.... from the Zelda hd engine used for ww and tp, to a heavily modified xeno engine).

And still it deserves it. But thats just never good enough for the zealots is it? Cant have anything less then unadulturated praise and uncritical worship can we?
Yeah, no. It was delayed so they could work out troubles with the physics engine and port it over to the Switch. The early gameplay looks very similar to the final game.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
I've been accused of being a Skyward Sword apologist before, and I do believe that Breath of the Wild was a better game and deserves every bit of praise is getting, but I do think the overall story in Skyward Sword was stronger that Breath of The Wild, helped by it being a more linear, focused game that could predict pacing better than an open air, "please get lost for hours and pick the story back up whenever you feel like" style. Also Groose.

Edit: I missed the point, you meant the real life story, not the in game one.
Yeah, no, I loved SS. Some of the music was divine and I wished BOTW's OST was closer to what SS had. I won't say it didn't have its flaws, but what game doesn't? And while not my favorite things about the game, the common complaints being motion and overworld/dungeon stuff bugged me, but not like it did others.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,829
Please don't undermine users based on their avatars. For all you know he could play across all platforms but just enjoys Rosalina as a character.
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
 

Deleted member 9971

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,743
Honestly i first thought Mario would win that orchestra + singer performance was awesome. Anyway Zelda deserved it easily, it will be a game that will get people and devs inspired. Also the game is a solid base for the series future, it could use some improvements indeed and there are some flaws but beside those it's still a masterpiece wich will be remembered for a long while.

Can't wait to see whats next for the franchise personally i am hopin for a Majoras Mask like counterpart in a new world or the dark world or finally a fully rebuild thriving Hyrule with human Ganondorf returning (it's been 10+ years he deserves to come back for another epic boss rumble and sword fight). BotW is a solid foundation wich can be build upon in the sequels.
 

Tarextherex

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
311
Tbh it would take like 5 2017's in a row for Nintendo for developers to actually emulate BOTW or whatever big game Nintendo releases. As long as checklist simulators keep selling you won't see any games inspired by BOTW anytime soon
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Took me 45 hours to 100% it. No other Mario game has come close to that amount for me.
Are you saying it's long or short? I have like 70hrs in Odyssey and I'm not even close to 100% BUT I always always take my sweet time with games and I spent a TON of time in photo mode when I played. The game feels short as hell. If you really wanted to you could finish it pretty damn quick, which isn't necessarily a bad thing (I'm sure many argue it's a good thing), but to me it just feels lacking in content. I'd be really happy if DLC got announced.

And again, I still think this game had several moments that could pass for series' best.
 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
lol "No that's horseshit we need to exercise prejudice when it's a Nintendo or Anime avatar!"
 

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One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,865
Pretty sure it was getting pushed because it was getting revamped for Switch and waiting for the Switch to get released.
Besides that, they started using havok to test things to then go and develop their own physics engine and kept adding new features to it, besides the development on the huge amount of content to the point that they had assistance from the people at Monolith for topography and level design and developers outside the company to finish it properly.


“On Skyward Sword, Monolith had mainly helped us on graphics design and other artistic elements. Even though we could have asked them for help on the technical side, we realized their way of making games was completely different from ours and we didn’t have much to learn from them on this installment, since we were almost doing two different jobs. On the other hand, for Breath of the Wild, we’ve been assisted by level designers used to large game areas, in order to make topographic arrangements.”
Source: https://www.gamekult.com/actualite/...ou-l-on-prend-plaisir-a-se-perdre-172637.html translated by http://www.siliconera.com/2017/01/30/monolith-softs-role-development-legend-zelda-breath-wild/
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,641
It was such a great fun night/event. Shame it seems to have upset certain peeps ;P
 

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
Very much agree with this, but I'll take the warning and avoid it in the future thanks. That said, it's a shame the only rebuttal for the post itself is emphasis on that I assume bias in the avatar, and not in the words I quoted directly to demonstrate bias itself, nor an objective response to the game criticisms laid out.
 

4859

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,817
In the weak and the wounded
That might be because the game isn't half finished. I don't see how it's "very clearly" half finished either, considering how much content was in the game and how long it took to come out. Also the game didn't have an engine change. What Nintendo showed off in 2012 was a tech demo, it was not representative of the final game. Breath of the Wild as far as we can see didn't change direction mid way into development and there's nothing there to back that up. People are hardly zealots for responding to you and calling out such claims
You dont need to have a change of direction to have a hard time finding your direction.... and changing directions can often make things easier... so not sure why you are trying to bring up something like that from what i said. Anyways...

Aunoma: "This is definitely the first time we’ve created a game this large. We didn’t know where to start. So it happened to be there was a team that was working on creating a larger world. And this team was a group of younger developers. So we had our old programmers from the Zelda team take a step aside, so we could introduce this new group of programmers."

Gee, I wonder who this could possibly be?

Aunoma "But then these new, younger developers had no clue about how past Zeldas had been created. The group of new staff actually would ask us, like ‘Well I know that it’s been done, traditionally, in other Zelda titles, but why does it have to be that way?’ And among those questions there were some I just couldn’t answer, that I didn’t know the answer to myself. That was because I just took those things on as a tradition, and I didn’t really know why the tradition existed."

These 'traditions' he was talking about have been single handedly ruining games like zelda (and metroid) for me and people like me for a very long time.

"When you think about it, maybe those things really didn’t need to be there in the modern world, those traditions. So I started destroying these traditions I’d inherited in the series one by one. But it’s a process that takes a lot of time. And because we were destroying everything we’d done in the past, and rebuild new ideas from the ground up, that was the hardest thing, and it’s really taken a long time to create the thing I most wanted to create."

Gunpei bless that young monolithsoft team. At last SOMEBODY was able to get through. But yeah, the game that was in dev for years before being shown, just went dark for over a year plus before being revealed as the mindblowing botw for no reason.



Anouma seems to think differently, but what would he know? And the direction taken was the best thing to ever happen to the series in decades, even though some sacrifices had to be made while ditching everything they had ever known to reinvent the series more in line with what it was meant to be before the detour caused by sticking to pointless n64 design traditions..... so, boo hoo i point those out i guess? I think in your frothing eagerness to defend nintendo against all and every possible form of critical thought, you are doing a grave disservice to the monumental feat that was accomplished here.
 

Jonneh

NintendoLife
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,474
UK
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.
The poster said "With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'." which borderlines on calling Jo-TM a fanboy. We don't accept personal attacks so this a warning to the thread before it escalates any further.

We all enjoy video games here, that's the beauty of this community. For instance Super Mario Odyssey is one of my favourite games of all time so I choose to represent it in my avatar. I could change it to another of my favourite games tomorrow being Ori and the Blind Forest. Would that change the substance of my posts? Avatars don't tell you everything you need to know about a person and undermining a post because of it is not something I'll accept.
Very much agree with this, but I'll take the warning and avoid it in the future thanks. That said, it's a shame the only rebuttal for the post itself is emphasis on that I assume bias in the avatar, and not in the words I quoted directly to demonstrate bias itself, nor an objective response to the game criticisms laid out.
By all means continue to discuss your opinions on the game. Just be civil with other users.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,644
Are you saying it's long or short? I have like 70hrs in Odyssey and I'm not even close to 100% BUT I always always take my sweet time with games and I spent a TON of time in photo mode when I played. The game feels short as hell. If you really wanted to you could finish it pretty damn quick, which isn't necessarily a bad thing (I'm sure many argue it's a good thing), but to me it just feels lacking in content. I'd be really happy if DLC got announced.

And again, I still think this game had several moments that could pass for series' best.
Odyssey’s main game can be very short yes, but to completely 100% the game it absolutely dwarfs every other 3D Mario and it’s not even close.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,927
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
I just see people criticizing a post based on an avatar as a lazy way to dismiss the actual point of the post. Most of the time it's only a one way thing as well.

If I was praising the shit out of some new Nintendo game and I had a Nintendo avatar, I would potentially be called out for my avatar.

However, would you call me out if I was being incessantly negative about Nintendo despite my avatar? If not, why not? Why wouldn't somebody say "your post makes no sense given your avatar. You are being dishonest."

Criticizing based on an avatar is a shallow form of criticism. Criticize based on content of the post, because you(or anyone else) generally have no context with regards to anything else.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,606
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
This is quite a horrible thing for me to read and I'm glad the site is on my side here. So because my avatar is from a Nintendo game I carry a certain "baggage" based purely on that, you know nothing else about me other than that (I'm 99.9% sure I've never interacted with you before) but you judge me based on one picture I use for one profile. You don't see how really not nice at all that is?

EDIT: was typing when Jonneh posted their reply.
 

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One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,865
You dont need to have a change of direction to have a hard time finding your direction.

Aunoma: "This is definitely the first time we’ve created a game this large. We didn’t know where to start. So it happened to be there was a team that was working on creating a larger world. And this team was a group of younger developers. So we had our old programmers from the Zelda team take a step aside, so we could introduce this new group of programmers."

Gee, I wonder who this could possibly be?

Aunoma "But then these new, younger developers had no clue about how past Zeldas had been created. The group of new staff actually would ask us, like ‘Well I know that it’s been done, traditionally, in other Zelda titles, but why does it have to be that way?’ And among those questions there were some I just couldn’t answer, that I didn’t know the answer to myself. That was because I just took those things on as a tradition, and I didn’t really know why the tradition existed."

These 'traditions' he was talking about have been single handedly ruining games like zelda (and metroid) for me and people like me for a very long time.

"When you think about it, maybe those things really didn’t need to be there in the modern world, those traditions. So I started destroying these traditions I’d inherited in the series one by one. But it’s a process that takes a lot of time. And because we were destroying everything we’d done in the past, and rebuild new ideas from the ground up, that was the hardest thing, and it’s really taken a long time to create the thing I most wanted to create."

Gunpei bless that young monolithsoft team. At last SOMEBODY was able to get through. But yeah, the game that was in dev for years before being shown, just went dark for over a year plus before being revealed as the mindblowing botw for no reason.



Anouma seems to think differently, but what would he know? And the direction taken was the best thing to ever happen to the series in decades, even though some sacrifices had to be made while ditching everything they had ever known to reinvent the series more in line with what it was meant to be before the detour caused by sticking to pointless n64 design traditions..... so, boo hoo i point those out i guess? I think in your frothing eagerness to defend nintendo against all and every possible form of critical thought, you are doing a grave disservice to the monumental feat that was accomplished here.
You are not making any sense, you talk about the game being half finished but nothing in those statements indicates that, and even if that was the case how do you know the exact time frame that the Monolith devs were added to the team? Please stop making conjectures without evidence.
 

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
The poster said "With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'." which borderlines on calling Jo-TM a fanboy. We don't accept personal attacks so this a warning to the thread before it escalates any further.

We all enjoy video games here, that's the beauty of this community. For instance Super Mario Odyssey is one of my favourite games of all time so I choose to represent it in my avatar. I could change it to another of my favourite games tomorrow being Ori and the Blind Forest. Would that change the substance of my posts? Avatars don't tell you everything you need to know about a person and undermining a post because of it is not something I'll accept.
That's fair... but what if you had a Nintendo-based avatar and wrote a mini novel about a Nintendo-based game being fantastic that summarized to little more than saying it's great because it's a Nintendo-based game? Maybe you had a Nintendo-based username even too. Is there a point where questioning the bias, offering up criticisms of the product removed from that lens of bias and looking for a more objective analysis isn't going to be frowned upon as a personal attack and instead seen as an attempt to improve the discourse instead?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,767
You dont need to have a change of direction to have a hard time finding your direction.... and changing directions can often make things easier... so not sure why you are trying to bring up something like that from what i said. Anyways...

Aunoma: "This is definitely the first time we’ve created a game this large. We didn’t know where to start. So it happened to be there was a team that was working on creating a larger world. And this team was a group of younger developers. So we had our old programmers from the Zelda team take a step aside, so we could introduce this new group of programmers."

Gee, I wonder who this could possibly be?

Aunoma "But then these new, younger developers had no clue about how past Zeldas had been created. The group of new staff actually would ask us, like ‘Well I know that it’s been done, traditionally, in other Zelda titles, but why does it have to be that way?’ And among those questions there were some I just couldn’t answer, that I didn’t know the answer to myself. That was because I just took those things on as a tradition, and I didn’t really know why the tradition existed."

These 'traditions' he was talking about have been single handedly ruining games like zelda (and metroid) for me and people like me for a very long time.

"When you think about it, maybe those things really didn’t need to be there in the modern world, those traditions. So I started destroying these traditions I’d inherited in the series one by one. But it’s a process that takes a lot of time. And because we were destroying everything we’d done in the past, and rebuild new ideas from the ground up, that was the hardest thing, and it’s really taken a long time to create the thing I most wanted to create."

Gunpei bless that young monolithsoft team. At last SOMEBODY was able to get through. But yeah, the game that was in dev for years before being shown, just went dark for over a year plus before being revealed as the mindblowing botw for no reason.



Anouma seems to think differently, but what would he know? And the direction taken was the best thing to ever happen to the series in decades, even though some sacrifices had to be made while ditching everything they had ever known to reinvent the series more in line with what it was meant to be before the detour caused by sticking to pointless n64 design traditions..... so, boo hoo i point those out i guess? I think in your frothing eagerness to defend nintendo against all and every possible form of critical thought, you are doing a grave disservice to the monumental feat that was accomplished here.
You do realize that none of Aonuma's quotes points to troubled development or the game being half finished, right? He was only talking about how they were rethinking traditional Zelda conventions. Also the game didn't go dark for years after reveal. It was showed off every year at least once after reveal, such as at TGA
 

Cathcart

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,053
Very much agree with this, but I'll take the warning and avoid it in the future thanks. That said, it's a shame the only rebuttal for the post itself is emphasis on that I assume bias in the avatar, and not in the words I quoted directly to demonstrate bias itself, nor an objective response to the game criticisms laid out.
The real shame is that you couldn’t make your point without that comment in the first place.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,606
That's fair... but what if you had a Nintendo-based avatar and wrote a mini novel about a Nintendo-based game being fantastic that summarized to little more than saying it's great because it's a Nintendo-based game? Maybe you had a Nintendo-based username even too. Is there a point where questioning the bias, offering up criticisms of the product removed from that lens of bias and looking for a more objective analysis isn't going to be frowned upon as a personal attack and instead seen as an attempt to improve the discourse instead?
You're moving goalposts from the original situation, I think the matter should be dropped here as Jonneh said. They summed it up well- be civil.
 
OP
OP
Realeza

Realeza

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,904
That's fair... but what if you had a Nintendo-based avatar and wrote a mini novel about a Nintendo-based game being fantastic that summarized to little more than saying it's great because it's a Nintendo-based game? Maybe you had a Nintendo-based username even too. Is there a point where questioning the bias, offering up criticisms of the product removed from that lens of bias and looking for a more objective analysis isn't going to be frowned upon as a personal attack and instead seen as an attempt to improve the discourse instead?
Just drop it dude, or should I criticize your taste for things because of your crappy avatar?
 

free_bubble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
594
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
This is fanboy horseshit.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,829
This is quite a horrible thing for me to read and I'm glad the site is on my side here. So because my avatar is from a Nintendo game I carry a certain "baggage" based purely on that, you know nothing else about me other than that (I'm 99.9% sure I've never interacted with you before) but you judge me based on one picture I use for one profile. You don't see how really not nice at all that is?
I mean, whether it's wrong or not (or "not nice" as you put it) is irrelevant. It happens. How you choose to present yourself will inform people's opinions of you, consciously or not. The "baggage" I refer to comes from years of seeing the same types of avatars make the same tired arguments in the same types of threads. Over and over again.

So yes, if you come into a thread talking about how Nintendo is the only developer in the industry making great, innovative games - your post is going to come across differently if it's next to a Nintendo avatar. That's just the way it is.

The poster said "With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'." which borderlines on calling Jo-TM a fanboy. We don't accept personal attacks so this a warning to the thread before it escalates any further.

We all enjoy video games here, that's the beauty of this community. For instance Super Mario Odyssey is one of my favourite games of all time so I choose to represent it in my avatar. I could change it to another of my favourite games tomorrow being Ori and the Blind Forest. Would that change the substance of my posts? Avatars don't tell you everything you need to know about a person and undermining a post because of it is not something I'll accept.

By all means continue to discuss your opinions on the game. Just be civil with other users.
You didn't make it Ori, though. You made it Mario. That choice says something about the position you're arguing from, whether you want it to or not.

I'll drop this derail though since it's beyond the scope of this thread.
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Very much agree with this, but I'll take the warning and avoid it in the future thanks. That said, it's a shame the only rebuttal for the post itself is emphasis on that I assume bias in the avatar, and not in the words I quoted directly to demonstrate bias itself, nor an objective response to the game criticisms laid out.
Frankly, the ciriticisms are pretty shallow. It reads like a list of talking points with no substance considering how many sources there are for well-articulated counterpoints. That’s my rebuttal, alongside the observation that pointing out the nature of one’s avatar is sophomoric and ridiculous. Before you do the same to me mentally, I’m not even a mega fan of the Zelda series at large, and BotW is one of my favorite games ever.

You didn't make it Ori, though. You made it Mario. That choice says something about the position you're arguing from, whether you want it to or not.

I'll drop this derail though since it's beyond the scope of this thread.
Condescending shite. The interpretation of someone’s avatar falls upon who’s interpreting it, not who chose it. This is really not a good look.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
No, that's nonsense.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,753
User was warned for: Ignoring thread warning for avatar profiling and then continuing to avatar profile the moderator.
The poster said "With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'." which borderlines on calling Jo-TM a fanboy. We don't accept personal attacks so this a warning to the thread before it escalates any further.

We all enjoy video games here, that's the beauty of this community. For instance Super Mario Odyssey is one of my favourite games of all time so I choose to represent it in my avatar. I could change it to another of my favourite games tomorrow being Ori and the Blind Forest. Would that change the substance of my posts? Avatars don't tell you everything you need to know about a person and undermining a post because of it is not something I'll accept.

By all means continue to discuss your opinions on the game. Just be civil with other users.
No, but they do sometimes tell something. If someone defends ridiculous fanservice and has an anime girl with her panties out as their avatar, that is telling.

I also kind of have a feeling that if it wasn't a Nintendo avatar he called out, you wouldn't have slapped the warning down.
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,641
I hope “Avatarism” doesn’t become a thing. It’s kind of disturbing.

...

It already is a thing, isn’t?
 

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
By all means continue to discuss your opinions on the game. Just be civil with other users.
You're moving goalposts from the original situation, I think the matter should be dropped here as Jonneh said. They summed it up well- be civil.
How do you have a discussion around the bias that surrounds a game, is shown in a thread regarding the games reception, and which has a constant back and forth between bias and baseless discourse that you're looking to discuss and debate over without addressing it? It seems counter intuitive to engage in a discussion board but refrain from engaging in discussion with another to seek out debate as it is deemed uncivil to criticize and question their discussion points.

Just drop it dude, or should I criticize your taste for things because of your crappy avatar?
Hey, now that's being uncivil. I never said anyones avatar is crap... and yes, the game it is from is one in which I enjoy and am biased towards.

Frankly, the ciriticisms are pretty shallow. It reads like a list of talking points with no substance considering how many sources there are for well-articulated counterpoints. That’s my rebuttal, alongside the observation that pointing out the nature of one’s avatar is sophomoric and ridiculous. Before you do the same to me mentally, I’m not even a mega fan of the Zelda series at large, and BotW is one of my favorite games ever.
Fantastic! Care to share some of those sources as that's the response I'm looking for here, especially if my criticisms are considered shallow?
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
10,109
That's fair... but what if you had a Nintendo-based avatar and wrote a mini novel about a Nintendo-based game being fantastic that summarized to little more than saying it's great because it's a Nintendo-based game? Maybe you had a Nintendo-based username even too. Is there a point where questioning the bias, offering up criticisms of the product removed from that lens of bias and looking for a more objective analysis isn't going to be frowned upon as a personal attack and instead seen as an attempt to improve the discourse instead?
It's an entirely worthless point in any argument that only shows your prejudice on the content of their posts based on your own preconceptions of the avatar rather than the actual content of the post itself.

Avatar reference is the first go to point for a argument that has a weak basis and is almost never used in one that has a strong one (you can check yourself).

If your argument loses merit because someone randomly changed avatar mid discussion your argument was poor plain and simple.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,753
Jonneh is a hardcore Nintendo fan and I think those in that camp tend to be a bit more sensitive (not in the pejorative sense) to criticisms about Nintendo properties or other fans. I'm not saying he wouldn't call out other avatar bullshit. I'm just saying that his radar is maybe a bit more tuned to the Nintendo side of things.

I'm truly not trying to be inflammatory here.
 

Jonneh

NintendoLife
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,474
UK
Avatar discussion ends here. Please get back on topic and if you have anything to discuss about the game whether it be positive or negative then do so without shaming other users.