The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the TGA 2017 Game of the Year

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
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I also kind of have a feeling that if it wasn't a Nintendo avatar he called out, you wouldn't have slapped the warning down.
Really?

Like, 'avatar profiling' is the kind of absurd thing that I would think was The Onion style satire and laugh at, I can't believe this is actually a thing we are having to discuss seriously.

EDIT: Sorry, Jonneh hadn't posted his warning when I made this post.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,644
BotW will deserve every GOTY it wins and is my favorite game of the year.

- guy with BotW avatar :)
 

free_bubble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
594
I'm glad this crap is being put out there in the open. Fodder for the ignore list. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

Edit: Missed Jonneh's post. My bad. I'm done.
 

Solid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,168
the land of ancient memes
I don't agree with this at all. People can choose whatever they want to reflect themselves with their avatars. Their posts don't exist in a vacuum separate from their identity on the forum.

The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
It's not a well known phenomenon, it's a surface level distinction that assholes like to make because they think there's a point to it. But there's not. Explain to me the value in pointing out through text what avatar someone has.
No, but they do sometimes tell something. If someone defends ridiculous fanservice and has an anime girl with her panties out as their avatar, that is telling.

I also kind of have a feeling that if it wasn't a Nintendo avatar he called out, you wouldn't have slapped the warning down.
There's two ways I could respond to you right now.

I could explain to you, with respect, how the text you've spoiled is ridiculous, because if it wasn't a Nintendo avatar, he wouldn't have been called out to begin with.

Or, instead of explaining that with respect, I could do this
HAHAHA YOUR AVATAR IS A STRAW MAN AND SO IS UR ARGUMENT LOLZ I'M SO CLEVER LIKE A CLOWN!

Isn't that right, Straw Man Avatar?

Isn't it so nice having the full range of your opinion and perspective boiled down to puerile assumptions about an icon below your name? Isn't it?

Oh. That's right. It's not terribly difficult to understand how fucking douchey that is... so why are you guys acting, pretending, like it is?
 
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carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Odyssey’s main game can be very short yes, but to completely 100% the game it absolutely dwarfs every other 3D Mario and it’s not even close.
3D World could be finished with every single character so that's like finishing the game 5 times. I'd say it's also more challenging and fun to replay than Odyssey is. So many of the Moons in Odyssey just seem kind of thoughtless.

So even if it's easily the longest, I still argue it needs the actual content to back it up.

Maybe it was just unfair for Odyssey. I love 3D World to death and pretty much consider it my favorite Mario game.

And is there no way to go back to different versions of the same stage in Odyssey either? I'd like to see the night versions of stages for example.

Having said this, my opinion isn't set in stone. I need to spend more time with Odyssey and maybe appreciate it for what it is more than lamenting what it isn't. And I don't like sounding so negative cuz it's a really solid game, and still one of the best Mario games. At the very least I like this a lot more than Sunshine, which is also a pretty good Mario game.

Ps. 3D World could be played with 1 to 4 people which also adds even more replay value. I suppose Odyssey has that Cappy mode but I don't think that's the same thing.
 
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Jonneh

NintendoLife
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Oct 24, 2017
4,474
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Jonneh is a hardcore Nintendo fan and I think those in that camp tend to be a bit more sensitive (not in the pejorative sense) to criticisms about Nintendo properties or other fans. I'm not saying he wouldn't call out other avatar bullshit. I'm just saying that his radar is maybe a bit more tuned to the Nintendo side of things.

I'm truly not trying to be inflammatory here.
It's true I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan. I cover Nintendo as part of my job, I have to be up to date with Nintendo news so you'll find me more active as a poster in Nintendo threads. I still play across all platforms and keep up with almost all major releases. As a moderator I'll warn inappropriate behaviour regardless of where it comes from, I would have done the very same thing if I saw someone undermining a Halo avatar.
 

Aigis

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Really?

Like, 'avatar profiling' is the kind of absurd thing that I would think was The Onion style satire and laugh at, I can't believe this is actually a thing we are having to discuss seriously.
What do you mean, avatar profiling is totally valid, thats how we all know you are a filthy weeb who thinks P5 is the goty

-aigis, imho
 

Yukinari

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
The Danger Zone
I dont think id honestly want to replay all the content in BoTW after my first time. Going through master mode is not nearly as fun either.

It loses its impact when you already know everything in a game where not knowing shit is half the fun. The divine beasts as well are inferior to dungeons.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,732
The "Nintendo avatar" is a well known phenomenon at this point. Much like the "anime avatar." There is baggage associated with both, and most people know that when they choose them.
This is so bonkers, lol. I think you need to relax a bit, many people simply like video games and haven't done research into the avatar illuminati as you have.


Anyways

Zelda is real good. Saving the DLC for Christmas break since I'll be traveling and I can't wait.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,753
It's true I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan, I cover Nintendo as part of my job, I have to be up to date with Nintendo news so you'll find me more active as a poster in Nintendo threads. I still play across all platforms and keep up with almost all major releases. As a moderator I'll warn inappropriate behaviour regardless of where it comes from, I would have done the very same thing if I saw someone undermining a Halo avatar.
Thanks for the response. I could've framed my first comment in less-inflammatory language (if it was necessary at all).

ANYWAY, I'd give BotW my game of the year too. Not a perfect game, but so much bigger than the sum of its parts. Was very impressed by it.

It IS a bummer that Horizon didn't win anything, though. I'm sure it'll be recognized by plenty of other outlets. Hearing its theme during the orchestra intro of GotY was beautiful.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,606
It's true I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan. I cover Nintendo as part of my job, I have to be up to date with Nintendo news so you'll find me more active as a poster in Nintendo threads. I still play across all platforms and keep up with almost all major releases. As a moderator I'll warn inappropriate behaviour regardless of where it comes from, I would have done the very same thing if I saw someone undermining a Halo avatar.
You're good people in my book :)

(I'll send you a PM very soon that I'd appreciate you take a look at).
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Fantastic! Care to share some of those sources as that's the response I'm looking for here, especially if my criticisms are considered shallow?
https://youtu.be/vmIgjAM0uh0

https://youtu.be/T3CsGbtifZI

https://youtu.be/SHnsqXWqaHI

A few videos which help articulate why I feel the way I do about the game. However since you think that there is factually inherent bias surrounding the game and its reception, I dunno what else to provide.

Ultimately I feel like the game delivered fully on every point of contention you have with it. Which is fine. There are games about which I express adverse feelings and people say “I feel differently.” What would be wrong is for me to say “well you only disagree with me because you have a ______ avatar and are clearly biased.”

Edit: posted before reading the mod post; apologies
 

LightEntite

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
My favorite set of posts on the old forum went something like this

Poster 1: Zelda should definitely be GOTY because its the first game to do x, y and z.

Poster 2 : No it isn’t game 1 did x game 2 did y and game 3 did z on PS3/360.

Poster 3 : Yeah, but this is the first time Nintendo did it.

I don’t remember each example and there were more than 3 but I think 1 had to do the fire model being similar to Far Cry 2 and another was a poor point about the physics engine. I think a point could have been made but poster 1 did a bad job and I don’t remember everything exactly to detail. Sorry it was 9 months ago!
This is honestly the only aggravating thing about BotW and its general reception to me. The amount of people willing to just attribute all of its design to some Nintendo brilliance while ignoring the obvious decade of games that it lifted mechanics from. It has nothing to do with Nintendo or the game itself; it's the fans.

Not that any game that's successful needs to credit where they got mechanics from, certainly not. But the general gushing about the game just kind of has this air of ignorance about it that makes it hard to chime in and join the chorus. Kind of like that whole "I did this >> Oh you did this? >> Nah I did this" meme.

What's present is definitely fun to play, but very little of the experience is new. And despite having an excellent premise for a sandbox design, BotW has plenty of the exact same open world design pitfalls that all OW games generally have.


I think BotW's real success is primarily the result of a great design philosophy and focus, not necessarily its actual mechanics. All of which have been done before and rather recently, seeing as a pretty good chunk of BotW's mechanics are extremely similar to Metal Gear Solid V...with the exact same drawbacks as a result.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,829
ANYWAY, I'd give BotW my game of the year too. Not a perfect game, but so much bigger than the sum of its parts. Was very impressed by it.

It IS a bummer that Horizon didn't win anything, though. I'm sure it'll be recognized by plenty of other outlets. Hearing its theme during the orchestra intro of GotY was beautiful.
Competition was stacked this year. I'm not sure which category Horizon could have taken. It was a solid enough game but nothing we haven't seen before. Just a really polished open world checklist.

Zelda was on another level, it easily deserved everything it took. I was worried that Mario might snub some of its glory so I'm glad things worked out the way they did. Odyssey was great, but Zelda was revolutionary.
 

Bosh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,069
Would of loved to see Persona 5 win it but BOTW winning was totally deserved.

It's wild how good Mario is and walks away with nothing
 

4859

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,817
In the weak and the wounded
You do realize that none of Aonuma's quotes points to troubled development or the game being half finished, right? He was only talking about how they were rethinking traditional Zelda conventions. Also the game didn't go dark for years after reveal. It was showed off every year at least once after reveal, such as at TGA
Yes, and lootboxes are for player choice, and respecting star wars canon. Looking for the exact words you are looking for is foolish, and obviously purposefully such. No one is going to come straight out and state a huge highly anticipated game that is going to be coming out in the near future was having development problems, so this is a really really disingenious point you are trying to make, effectively willfull obtusity. Remember nintendo bragging about how much trouble metroid prime had during development right before its release? Oh, no? Those interviews being more candid didn't happen until years after the game became a phenomenon? Eh, just a coincidence right?

Here is what he states

1. We never created a zelda game like this, we didnt know where to start.
2 then "but we had this team that worked on creating a lot of critically acclaimed huge worlds.
3. Our Zelda team stepped aside so they could show us what they know how to do.
4. they told us our traditions dont make sense and a lot of people basically hate what they have been doing to the series since oot.
5. I looked at these traditions one by one, burned them down, and changed everything.

Now you can look at this and say, herr blur blur, he never said those specific words, even though the context makes it pretty clear, but you would be being purposefully obtuse. The game started out one way, by one team, who was making yet another dull traditional zelda, and then the monolith soft team was introduced, and turned everything on its head in the best way possible. It is not a coincidence breath of the wild traversal is designed EXACTLY like a monolithsoft openworld game is (Lots of landmarks, landmarks become teleport locations, player visually finds where they want to go by seeing something interesting and heading for it, as opposed to following dot on map), and pretty much NOTHING like a modern 3d zelda.

Its also pretty obvious something happened, when the original "This is in engine" reveal looked like a very well into production game, but never scrolled or followed link into new locations, the camera merely panned, and then the scene cut, like every time. Very unlike a xeno engine game with its fantastic streaming open world tech. But very much like the traditional zelda engine that loads individual areas. And then the next gameplay reveal looked nothing like it, almost like they just switched engines and scraped together enough assets to make something barely presentable, but nothing like what was shown before.... Before going dark for a year+ where no media was shown at all, and re-revealing as breath of the wild as we know it today.

Its almost like if you line that up with what aunoma was talking about, you get a match. Its almost like doing what breath of the wild did is not a simple thing that takes no effort, no opportunity cost, and doesn't effect other things you would have normally done if you didn't have to completely change everything and make a huge from scratch effort you basically havent done since the series went 3d... such as not being able to make proper dungeons, because you literally spent all your time reinventing the wheel into plane instead, and instead sprinkling all the ideas and puzzles you had for dungeons that never materialized into shrines spread across the map.

But not really, because completely changing the stagnanting oot path, into a completely different path that better represents what the series was always meant to be is nothing and takes no time or effort, nor would remotely affect any other aspect of development.... And the director of the franchise stating otherwise means nothing, because he didn't say the word 'trouble' specifically.
 
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Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I've come to the conclusion that sometimes you just don't agree with popular concensus. I don't agree with DA:I, TW3 and UC4 at all. I have accepted it. Some of you guys need to accept it too. Reviewers are not bias, they just think differently.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,936
Miami
That's an impressive amount of words that don't really say anything... With a Nintendo avatar, you essentially repeat the typical Zelda greatness monologue that boils down to 'Nintendo Nintendo Nintendo'. I'm still looking for actual reasoning as to why the game is so great, that doesn't focus on it being a Nintendo game or the Zelda franchise, and addresses the slew of criticisms around the shallow story, gameplay depth, weak characters, repetitive systems, surface level crafting, lack of dungeons and uninspiring boss design.
Your final point is so great but you have to ruin your entire argument with this "you are bias" bullshit. That is the lowest forum of debate, just accusing another of being bias rather than actually accepting the opinions as valid.

That said you make a great point, there are loads of issues with this game that seemingly get a pass because of the major and admittingly game changing mechanics added. This is a battle of taste and it seems to me many people want freedom to play as they want above all else. There are posts in this very page insulting past zelda dungeons, items were restricting, tons of awful terrible opinions for me. Why cause people want something different from their games and great level design, and linear well designed gameplay segments are looked down upon by some who much rather be free to do as they want. It sucks for me, for you, for those of us that appreciate that art form and end up with a game that lacks in a ton of those areas but gets praised as the second coming cause it's not for us.

Hopefully the next one is a proper mix of the two so we can have the ultimate game cause BOTW is not that.
 
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phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,071
Thanks for the response. I could've framed my first comment in less-inflammatory language (if it was necessary at all).

ANYWAY, I'd give BotW my game of the year too. Not a perfect game, but so much bigger than the sum of its parts. Was very impressed by it.

It IS a bummer that Horizon didn't win anything, though. I'm sure it'll be recognized by plenty of other outlets. Hearing its theme during the orchestra intro of GotY was beautiful.
you know, as shitty as is it that it didn't get recognized with an award I do believe that being one of the five game of the year nominees is high praise for 2017. I know people wanted an actual award but I think being nominated as one of the five best games of the year is being forgotten.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,753
you know, as shitty as is it that it didn't get recognized with an award I do believe that being one of the five game of the year nominees is high praise for 2017. I know people wanted an actual award but I think being nominated as one of the five best games of the year is being forgotten.
Yeah, that's true. And in such a strong year, too.
 

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
https://youtu.be/vmIgjAM0uh0

https://youtu.be/T3CsGbtifZI

https://youtu.be/SHnsqXWqaHI

A few videos which help articulate why I feel the way I do about the game. However since you think that there is factually inherent bias surrounding the game and its reception, I dunno what else to provide.

Ultimately I feel like the game delivered fully on every point of contention you have with it. Which is fine. There are games about which I express adverse feelings and people say “I feel differently.” What would be wrong is for me to say “well you only disagree with me because you have a ______ avatar and are clearly biased.”
Thanks for the videos! Added to my watch list, and will check them out throughout the day. I appreciate you attempting to address the point of my post, and 98% of its content, so let's keep it at that and not join in with the twisting of the discussion to emphasis on something that was nothing more than a minor aside observation to the post at hand.
 

Deleted member 249

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Raven117

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Guys, let's drop the avatar discussion, Jonneh's already posted a warning about it.
Waiting for that crow about Metroid 4 Phantom. ;)

Good on Zelda for winning. While the game didn't do it for me (though Im going to try the DLC if there is enough content there....as I think I was in a weird spot when I played it), there is no question as to its quality.
 

Deleted member 249

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Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Waiting for that crow about Metroid 4 Phantom. ;)

Good on Zelda for winning. While the game didn't do it for me (though Im going to try the DLC if there is enough content there....as I think I was in a weird spot when I played it), there is no question as to its quality.
Can we call it a tie because Bayonetta got revealed
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,610
Some Categories weren't going to be touched by the likes of even Zelda or Horizon. Persona 5 and especially Cuphead are Art Style The Game, and were locks for that category, Edith Finch is basically Narrative The Game. Not to say being specialized at the expense of general appeal makes for a better game, but games that are outstanding in a specific area should be recognized.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
10,003
But it's Zelda, and no matter how unimpressive it is it'll always get some kind of award.

..not to say Breath of the Wild is bad, it's quite good, the best Zelda in perhaps over 15 years, AND one of the best open world games out there but Zelda is overrated af lol
I think games like TP, WW, and SS are overrated but only relative to the best in the series.

Overrated compared to other non Zelda similar action adventure games? Not seeing it...

And Botw deserves all the praise unlike the 3 above. An achievement not only for Zelda but games in general

What Zelda game games are "unimpressive"? Even my least favorite in the series are huge games that try something new.
 

Wozzer

QA Architect at Riot Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
119
Los Angeles, CA
Your final point is so great but you have to ruin your entire argument with this you are bias bullshit. That is the lowest forum of debate, just accusing another of being bias rather than actually accepting the opinions as valid.

That said you make a great point, there are loads of issues with this game that seemingly get a pass because of the major and admittingly game changing mechanics added. This is a battle of taste and it seems to me many people want freedom to play as they want above all else. There are posts in this very page insulting past zelda dungeons, items were restricting, tons of awful terrible opinions for me. Why cause people want something different from their games and great level design, and linear well designed gameplay segments are looked down upon by some who much rather be free to do as they want. It sucks for me, for you, for those of us that appreciate that art form and end up with a game that lacks in a ton of those areas but gets praised as the second coming cause it's not for us.

Hopefully the next one is a proper mix of the two so we can have the ultimate game cause BOTW is not that.
Apologies that the avatar quip, it wasn't my intention to derail my attempt to start a dialogue on the topic at hand but thanks for looking past that and giving a response to the body of my post! I couldn't agree more with your stance, and I too am incredibly excited to see where the game goes next as an evolution of the two formulas could be spectacular. As it stands I see BOTW 1 as the Assassins Creed 1 (and to a lesser extent Portal 1) of its franchise, and the next iteration is going to realize the approach beyond what at times feels like first steps and a prototype in what could have been.
 

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Tanooki

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Definitely deserved. Every game nominated was really solid and worthy of goty, but I'm glad that BotW ultimately walked away with the award. It's a truly unparalleled experience.
 

Miamiwesker

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Oct 25, 2017
2,936
Miami
Apologies that the avatar quip, it wasn't my intention to derail my attempt to start a dialogue on the topic at hand but thanks for looking past that and giving a response to the body of my post! I couldn't agree more with your stance, and I too am incredibly excited to see where the game goes next as an evolution of the two formulas could be spectacular. As it stands I see BOTW 1 as the Assassins Creed 1 (and to a lesser extent Portal 1) of its franchise, and the next iteration is going to realize the approach beyond what at times feels like first steps and a prototype in what could have been.
Yup that is what I feel as well, this is just the start. I think where we get kind of confused is why is this base first attempt with so much room to grow getting almost the greatest reception of all time, there is so much room for improvement. So a better version of this game comes out and it's a what now, an 11? That part confuses me but who am I to tell anyone they can't love a game so much.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
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Das good. And a relief, feeding crow to a raven woulda kinda felt wrong, don't you think?

The new DLC is really interesting. I haven't had much time with it, but- oh, don't let me spoil it, best for you to go into it blind and discover it for yourself!
The thought did cross my mind when crow first came up. I decided to keep my nerd comments to myself having just made a goofy Neo/Matrix joke prior.

Do you know how long the DLC is for Zelda? I want to give the game another chance now that Im not moving cities, jobs, etc...(when I played the first one).
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,809
Everyone take a deep breath and remember how opinions work.

If you want to objectively talk about graphics performance or how deep certain game-play systems are that is fine. But remember that art direction is subjective. Whether game-play systems are fun relative to how deep they are is also subjective. Some people like sims, some people like arcade games. Some people like deep stories like Witcher 3 and some like minimalist like Journey. A game can also be better than the sum of its parts just like a game can be worse than the of the sum of its parts.

It's sometimes hard for people to articulate why they like certain games because the best developers do a fantastic job of hiding that guiding hand and shaping experiences. So they attribute it to "<insert publishers name> magic." It isn't an invalid opinion, maybe just not fully understood, but it doesn't invalidate someone's impression.