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antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
I think the average employees time at Nintendo speaks to the general treatment of the Employees. Having an Average around 14-15 years is pretty exceptional especially in an Industry at least in the west that views Developers as nothing more then replaceable with the next batch of bright eyed "gamers" who have no idea how the industry really is.
 

Beatle

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,123
Who would've guessed that happy+healthy staff = better overall product due to better working conditions and possibly higher levels of productivity?

Nintendo keeping it classy.

Bernie Sanders loves Nintendo's "workers come first" philosophy, it's good for business and the right thing to do
 

Onilink

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,586
Sorry, I haven't been following these threads very carefully, but was there ever any mention of the horror stories back then about Mario 64 or OoT for example? Granted, that was a while ago, but putting Nintendo on a pedestal is kinda ironic knowing some of their past practices on that topic.
No, but we can dig until the '80
 

Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177
The only "horror" stories I've heard, if you can even call them horror stories, are just really about how Miyamoto can be a really tough and demanding boss.

But that's in itself is not an indication of a crunchy crunchy work culture. And besides, it's pretty well known that Nintendo is a company with high employee retention rate.
I've heard plenty of horror stories, from the game producers themselves, about staff living at the office for weeks/months at a time during Super Metroid development.

I get the feeling, or maybe just hope, that the management at Nintendo grew up working those crazy hours, got married, had kids, grew older, and realized what a waste it was. So they've made strides in recent years to remove it from the company culture. The delays of AC, Metroid, and Zelda in recent years give me a little hope thats actually true.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,539
Bandung Indonesia
I've heard plenty of horror stories, from the game producers themselves, about staff living at the office for weeks/months at a time during Super Metroid development.

I get the feeling, or maybe just hope, that the management at Nintendo grew up working those crazy hours, got married, had kids, grew older, and realized what a waste it was. So they've made strides in recent years to remove it from the company culture. The delays of AC, Metroid, and Zelda in recent years give me a little hope thats actually true.

Hooh, interesting. Super Metroid as in the one in the SNES? That's such a long time ago.
 

Annoying Old Party Man

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
966
I've heard plenty of horror stories, from the game producers themselves, about staff living at the office for weeks/months at a time during Super Metroid development.

I get the feeling, or maybe just hope, that the management at Nintendo grew up working those crazy hours, got married, had kids, grew older, and realized what a waste it was. So they've made strides in recent years to remove it from the company culture. The delays of AC, Metroid, and Zelda in recent years give me a little hope thats actually true.

I mean, there was this story (I think told by Koizumi himself? Or some other Nintendo producer) of the Mario team staying after work - I think it was during the N64 era - and staying up until the first morning hours to work on prototypes and experiment.

- fake edit - here, i found it: https://kotaku.com/at-nintendo-working-all-night-is-mario-time-1794042341

Keep in mind that this was self-imposed "crunch", none of it seems like it was ordered by upper management.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,878
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
That about matches what you hear. There's a handful of studios and publishers that do right by their employees on this front, and Nintendo's been part of that group these days. I guess this one's significant because they're a Japanese company, which typically leans quite hard in the opposite direction.
 

jankinkraut

Member
Nov 20, 2017
19
Never expected anything less from Nintendo. Reminds me of when they were struggling during the Wii U and 3DS era and instead of firing employees all of the top execs took a pay cut instead.

I imagine they have such a huge knowledge base with their long-term employees that this gives them a super efficient and streamlined work structure. It definitely pays to have a high employee retention.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
I think the average employees time at Nintendo speaks to the general treatment of the Employees. Having an Average around 14-15 years is pretty exceptional especially in an Industry at least in the west that views Developers as nothing more then replaceable with the next batch of bright eyed "gamers" who have no idea how the industry really is.
I don't know if that really means anything in japan. Loyalty to one job is different than it is here. Do we have comparison to other Japanese companies?
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,173
I don't expect Nintendo to be completely free of crunch. It's something that happens everywhere.
I'm genuinely sure Aonuma mentioned at some point that near the end of development for BOTW his team went into an overdrive mode, but I guess it wasn't so terrible that it went into a legitimate enough crunch period for anyone to make note of it. Though apparently the way they cycle the staff through different procedures ensures a healthy mindset that prevents burn out.

I don't know if that really means anything in japan. Loyalty to one job is different than it is here. Do we have comparison to other Japanese companies?

Employment security and loyalty culture in Japanese companies basically ensure a rather lengthy tenure for most employees if they want to get anything substantial out of their employment there, though I wouldn't be able to tell you whether or not Nintendo's retention is below or average by Japanese corporate standards. However I can say based on what's being said here that the work environment seems definitely more lenient for a company this size in Japan.
 
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Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,747
Italy
Schreier doesnt clarify this to Aonuma and I wish he would: when you ask a Japanese dev about overtime you need to be clear about the hoursand days involved because crunch culture in Japan is VERY different so Aonumas very vague answer doesnt mean much, hes just saying nobody died from overtime which ... ok? He might not think 60/70 hour weeks is crunch because in Japan thats almost expected, but its still crunch. I wish these questions where more specifics oriented otherwise its just the glorified company PR saying that nope people under me are happy I did not mismanage them move along haha nothing to see here.

In fact he was very specific in saying that working conditions come first and that Nintendo promotes flexibility over rigid working schedule. This shows in longer than average employees retention and common delays (lqast one? Animal Crossing, specifically because of this). Also, surveys show that people in Nintendo work less than the average in Japan. But maybe you have different inside information about that and you can share that with us.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,173
Yeah. I think thats YouTube info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzxi9IcO-u4
6 months of people living in the office, at any time at least 10 people present working.

A week of crunch from time to time seems reasonable to me. Anything else is really a huge sign that whoever is planning things isn't doing a good job.
I remember a specific reference from Itoi during the development of Earthbound where he and Iwata would often stay overnight to finish off production and slept in Yamauchi's office. Though I guess he looks upon that more fondly than a regular worker would.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,649
It's funny when you compare that to Sakurai almost boasting at how much he works lol, I would not want to work under him.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,792
I would take that with a big pinch of salt. The amount of times I've been told be a developer that they don't crunch/do overtime when they actually do.
What more do you want? We have executives stating that their employee's health are very important and a focus within the company, indicators that working hours are flexible and well within norms of 'normal' full time hours and a company willing to delay games over extensive crunch.

At some point, you need to start believing that crunch might actually not be a major issue within Nintendo rather than this: 'You say that, but....'
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
I would take that with a big pinch of salt. The amount of times I've been told be a developer that they don't crunch/do overtime when they actually do.
No one has said they don't do any crunch. Their philosophy is to do as little as possible. It also appears it may be a voluntary as employees have flexibility in their schedules.

I don't think it is unreasonable to have a week or two of overtime near certain periods of development to meet certain goals at certain points on time. No one would be complaining if there were two weeks in the middle and two weeks at the end. The issue stems from shit holes like Rockstar that brag about 80-100+ hour work weeks that last weeks and months on end and other places where persistent overtime is the norm for the entire production time. Overtime happens, people get sick and shit happens that slow down production, no one denies this and every one understands this. Nintendo seems to have it under control with minimal overtime. If it were a problem they would not have the longest average length of employment.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,552
Feels like Nintendo has changed a lot internally over the last decade and change. It's really refreshing.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,948
During the Iwata Asks era (gee they were good) wasn't it stated that Miyamoto would regularly pick a selection of employees across the company and 'kidnap' them? For games design purposes of course!

That was another example of when Nintendo does reveal a peek behind the curtain, it sounds quite interesting and unique. I hope to hear more about it one day.
In another Iwata Asks, an employee recalled being scolded by Miyamoto for staying late and urging the late employee to get out of office and not waste his youth overworking.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
What I think really helps Nintendo as a company and their workers is that their approach to sheduling their game releases.

Remember the Gamecube days, were they rushed games out of door and the horrorstories from Retro Studios?

Now they are sitting on finished games, making sure there is a steady stream of games. Yes, I know, there are still gaps in the release shedule and it drives people mad that they are sitting on games. But I'm sure it takes away alot of pressure from the teams.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,369
It sounds mostly positive, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was true compared to most employees in Japan.

They can maintain that balance themselves.

This is kind of indicative that it's not quite the rosy story it's made to sound like. Social/peer pressure is just as much of a root of crunch as management mandates, and Japan is a terrible social environment when it comes to managing work life balance. Anti-crunch culture needs to be instilled from the top down not just left up to employees.
 

guru-guru

Member
Oct 25, 2017
831
We already know the work conditions at Nintendo include average work days of less than 8 hours.

It's not just by Japanese standards.
This isn't true. The source, which is Nintendo's recruitment page, merely lists the contracted work hours. If you go to any Japanese developers recruitment page, it will more or less be similar to Nintendo's, yet overtime is an everyday occurrence in the industry in Japan. People at the video game company I briefly worked at in Tokyo, for example, averaged at least 40-60 hours of overtime per month. Nintendo is known as being better than most of the industry in Japan, but they certainly do have overtime. If you can read Japanese, most job-hunting sites and the Japanese-equivalents to Glassdoor (Vorkers and jobtalk) list overtime at Nintendo as an average of 30+ hours per month. Vorkers and jobtalk, compared to Glassdoor, have a good reputation for being pretty accurate to boot. The evaluations of all the companies I worked at in Japan were accurately represented on both those sites (including the above which had 40-60 hours of overtime per month).
 
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