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Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
I mean they kind of already went that route in Wind Waker. It'd be cool if it continued here
Problem is the Gerudo are alive here and don't want anything to do with him, he doesn't have people to care for.his sob story wouldn't work more than Demises , he wants to conquer Hyrule for himself if he comes back, he may have a personality simiar to HW Dorf.

Or they could play the Demise curse angle and make him a victim of it but, i don't think Nintendo would go that route.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,588
One thing I hope for whether it's this game or some future Zelda game is being able to explore the Sacred Realm. I know we got to kinda do this in A Link to the Past but I want to visit it uncorrupted. All we have really gotten is some brief cutscenes in past Zeldas.
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
Here's how you do it:

- You can do the dungeons in any order
- Your starting tools will get you through the first half of each dungeon
- Each dungeon contains a unique item that gets you through the second half
- The unique item in one dungeon is NOT used in other dungeons
- However, each unique item gets extra optional use in the overworld

BAM
This is the part that's difficult to figure out though, and why they ended up completely leaving "items" out of Breath of the Wild.

What would "optional use" look like?

I suppose in Breath of the Wild, a Hookshot could've strictly been used for something like climbing mountains faster (I imagine something like Link launching himself off the side of a mountain he's climbing, you press the button to use the hookshot and it goes slow motion - you then get to aim at a higher part of the mountain to hookshot to).

The problem is, the second you start needing items to access certain things, you're back to square one. They have to do a delicate dance if they really want to maintain the freedom but also bring items to the table. I'd also be happy to see completely new items, that way they could tailor them to the game and not have to worry about things like "how could we add this item without making it a requirement, but while also making it so you should be using it at certain times?"

One thing I hope for whether it's this game or some future Zelda game is being able to explore the Sacred Realm. I know we got to kinda do this in A Link to the Past but I want to visit it uncorrupted. All we have really gotten is some brief cutscenes in past Zeldas.
Oh man, this has been something I've wanted to do since I first played Link to the Past. I loved reading the instruction manual about it, seeing that illustration of the triforce sitting in the sacred realm, etc. Same with Ocarina of Time. I wanted to exit the Temple of Light (where the sages are) and just explore. Damn. Well spotted.
 

Rivyn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,709
I usually always replay Zelda games but not this one. There were far too many mechanics where it felt like a chore instead of something fun.

The puzzle dungeons in order to gain orbs to increase your hearts or stamina was fun at first, but after a couple of dozen the approach felt repetitive.

They really need to get rid of those and also get rid of the weapon degradation. Part of the charm of Zelda games were finding weapons and using them to open up paths and being able to complete dungeons with them. There is absolutely no reason why we should get rid of that in future Zelda games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
It would be cool if Ganondorf is characterised somewhat like Thanos in Infinity War. Menacing, occasionally soft-spoken and terrifying in his relentless pursuit of his goal. Voice acting will only make him even more memorable.

Time to discard the pure evil/moustache-twirling characterisation of the older 'dorf in favour of something more nuanced. That would assuage my slight disappointment that he is the villain yet again, rather than some new antagonist.

Yeah, it's called Wind Waker Ganondorf. The game came out 17 years ago
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Here's how you do it:

- You can do the dungeons in any order
- Your starting tools will get you through the first half of each dungeon
- Each dungeon contains a unique item that gets you through the second half
- The unique item in one dungeon is NOT used in other dungeons
- However, each unique item gets extra optional use in the overworld

BAM
Being able to do them in any order will still lead to massive balancing issues. In BotW the first divine beast could be really hard depending on when you tackled it, while the 4th was a complete joke no matter what. Hell the balancing in Link Between Worlds was already crap.

Let's say we have 8 dungeons: Make the first 5 dungeons accessable in any order, but at least have the last 3 gated off for after you've beaten the first 5 so they can at least estimate your power level when you enter that stage in the game. Would still be very open, but provides one point of refence for balancing during a playtrhough for the devs.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
Here's how you do it:

- You can do the dungeons in any order
- Your starting tools will get you through the first half of each dungeon
- Each dungeon contains a unique item that gets you through the second half
- The unique item in one dungeon is NOT used in other dungeons
- However, each unique item gets extra optional use in the overworld

BAM
Not bad overall, but the bolded is weak for me. Mixing of items is really fun and having dungeons explicitly ignore all other items doesn't sound that enticing. ALBW suffered for this very reason of being able to do any dungeon in any order and only focusing on the central item because of the rental system. It really limits the overall complexity of the puzzles being fixed around one single item(even if the core abilities are still present) and how much progression there is to increase their difficulty with such limited use cases.

Absolute freedom has its limitations. I don't think it's a bad thing to have certain areas or progression through dungeons be gated by items/abilities. Personally finding an area I can't access isn't a negative, it inspires me and gives me motivation to find what I need in order to gain entry. It's not different from finding an enemy that's way tougher than what I can manage at that point early on in the game, I make a note of it on my map and then either go do something else or focus on doing what I need to in order to overcome that obstacle.

I think a main central dungeon allows for a good point of origin for new items/abilities that can then be leveraged elsewhere in the world and with additional stand alone dungeons that they gate. It doesn't leave anything up to chance or guessing. You progress the Central Dungeon to gain further access it new items/abilities. Everything else supports that. By exploring the world, wherever you wish to go, you'll find and do things akin to finding Shrines, that provide you with further access to explore the Central Dungeon. You're not explicitly forced to go in any one direction.

Lets say BotW2 starts out much like BotW. We begin with finding this Ganondorf corpse in an underground ruin, Hyrule Castle gets lifted into the sky. Instead of having the Great Plateau we can't descend from as the beginner's area, we now instead having the Great Cavern(or some such). Our main objective here is the find a way out of the giant hole/underground ruins. This could also double as the first Section of the Central Dungeon. Like the Great Plateau we'll get introduced to basic gameplay and new abilities, magic hand stuff to replace the Sheikah Slate/Runes. The culmination of this starting area would be the the equivalent of the Paraglider, but instead of being able to descend from up high, we'll instead be able to ascend to up high. This would be both our means of exiting this Central Dungeon as well as our means of getting to the now floating Hyrule/Ganon's Castle.

With that players will have a similar freedom as BotW to attempt the end-game whenever they like. They can go up there after 1 hour or 100 hours. It's their choice, but when it comes to the rest of the world exploring certain areas, accessing certain locations and so on will require the advancing of that Central Dungeon to acquire new items/abilities that can then be leveraged elsewhere in the world. A majority of the world would still be completely open for us to explore and interact with, but certain activities would require advancing that Central Dungeon.

Sure you can swim under water now and explore a massive amount of new locations, but without the Iron Boots from the central dungeon you won't be able activate that switch you saw in Lake Hylia to open that cool looking door you found down there. Or without the Silver Scale you won't be able to stay under long enough to explore it.

This is the part that's difficult to figure out though, and why they ended up completely leaving "items" out of Breath of the Wild.

What would "optional use" look like?

I suppose in Breath of the Wild, a Hookshot could've strictly been used for something like climbing mountains faster (I imagine something like Link launching himself off the side of a mountain he's climbing, you press the button to use the hookshot and it goes slow motion - you then get to aim at a higher part of the mountain to hookshot to).

The problem is, the second you start needing items to access certain things, you're back to square one. They have to do a delicate dance if they really want to maintain the freedom but also bring items to the table. I'd also be happy to see completely new items, that way they could tailor them to the game and not have to worry about things like "how could we add this item without making it a requirement, but while also making it so you should be using it at certain times?"


Oh man, this has been something I've wanted to do since I first played Link to the Past. I loved reading the instruction manual about it, seeing that illustration of the triforce sitting in the sacred realm, etc. Same with Ocarina of Time. I wanted to exit the Temple of Light (where the sages are) and just explore. Damn. Well spotted.
I would say optional use is a myth in a lot of cases, either it's necessary or it's not. The key is balancing the number of activities where said items are necessary with those activities where they are not. It would be a lot of work, but if there's enough stuff to do with the core abilities and gaining access to those additional items is relatively easy then those activities that are gated shouldn't feel so restrictive. You should instead always feel like you're advancing towards a tangible and attainable goal.

Stuff like combat they could be more optional as they could make facing certain enemies easier and more manageable while not being explicitly required to defeat them. And certain items like the Claw Shot could make traversal faster while not necessarily being required most of the time. But if you're making puzzles and challenges if said items aren't required for any of them then you're losing a lot of the value in having them at all.

We're not going to be able to recreate classic dungeons unless some amount of gating and fix progression is re-introduced. Unless people are fine with just not having that. I enjoyed Hyrule Castle, Yiga Hideout and Eventide Island a lot and would love to see more areas like them and developed further, but they're still not the same as traditional dungeons of old.

One thing I hope for whether it's this game or some future Zelda game is being able to explore the Sacred Realm. I know we got to kinda do this in A Link to the Past but I want to visit it uncorrupted. All we have really gotten is some brief cutscenes in past Zeldas.
I've been pitching my Alice in Wonderland inspired "Zelda in the Sacred Realm" for a few years now. No offers yet. Sacred Realm could be a really amazing and trippy setting that could be very unique on its own while also a fantastical amalgamation of lots of different stuff from all over the series.
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
Not bad overall, but the bolded is weak for me. Mixing of items is really fun and having dungeons explicitly ignore all other items doesn't sound that enticing. ALBW suffered for this very reason of being able to do any dungeon in any order and only focusing on the central item because of the rental system. It really limits the overall complexity of the puzzles being fixed around one single item(even if the core abilities are still present) and how much progression there is to increase their difficulty with such limited use cases.

Absolute freedom has its limitations. I don't think it's a bad thing to have certain areas or progression through dungeons be gated by items/abilities. Personally finding an area I can't access isn't a negative, it inspires me and gives me motivation to find what I need in order to gain entry. It's not different from finding an enemy that's way tougher than what I can manage at that point early on in the game, I make a note of it on my map and then either go do something else or focus on doing what I need to in order to overcome that obstacle.

I think a main central dungeon allows for a good point of origin for new items/abilities that can then be leveraged elsewhere in the world and with additional stand alone dungeons that they gate. It doesn't leave anything up to chance or guessing. You progress the Central Dungeon to gain further access it new items/abilities. Everything else supports that. By exploring the world, wherever you wish to go, you'll find and do things akin to finding Shrines, that provide you with further access to explore the Central Dungeon. You're not explicitly forced to go in any one direction.

Lets say BotW2 starts out much like BotW. We begin with finding this Ganondorf corpse in an underground ruin, Hyrule Castle gets lifted into the sky. Instead of having the Great Plateau we can't descend from as the beginner's area, we now instead having the Great Cavern(or some such). Our main objective here is the find a way out of the giant hole/underground ruins. This could also double as the first Section of the Central Dungeon. Like the Great Plateau we'll get introduced to basic gameplay and new abilities, magic hand stuff to replace the Sheikah Slate/Runes. The culmination of this starting area would be the the equivalent of the Paraglider, but instead of being able to descend from up high, we'll instead be able to ascend to up high. This would be both our means of exiting this Central Dungeon as well as our means of getting to the now floating Hyrule/Ganon's Castle.

With that players will have a similar freedom as BotW to attempt the end-game whenever they like. They can go up there after 1 hour or 100 hours. It's their choice, but when it comes to the rest of the world exploring certain areas, accessing certain locations and so on will require the advancing of that Central Dungeon to acquire new items/abilities that can then be leveraged elsewhere in the world. A majority of the world would still be completely open for us to explore and interact with, but certain activities would require advancing that Central Dungeon.

Sure you can swim under water now and explore a massive amount of new locations, but without the Iron Boots from the central dungeon you won't be able activate that switch you saw in Lake Hylia to open that cool looking door you found down there. Or without the Silver Scale you won't be able to stay under long enough to explore it.


I would say optional use is a myth in a lot of cases, either it's necessary or it's not. The key is balancing the number of activities where said items are necessary with those activities where they are not. It would be a lot of work, but if there's enough stuff to do with the core abilities and gaining access to those additional items is relatively easy then those activities that are gated shouldn't feel so restrictive. You should instead always feel like you're advancing towards a tangible and attainable goal.

Stuff like combat they could be more optional as they could make facing certain enemies easier and more manageable while not being explicitly required to defeat them. And certain items like the Claw Shot could make traversal faster while not necessarily being required most of the time. But if you're making puzzles and challenges if said items aren't required for any of them then you're losing a lot of the value in having them at all.

We're not going to be able to recreate classic dungeons unless some amount of gating and fix progression is re-introduced. Unless people are fine with just not having that. I enjoyed Hyrule Castle, Yiga Hideout and Eventide Island a lot and would love to see more areas like them and developed further, but they're still not the same as traditional dungeons of old.


I've been pitching my Alice in Wonderland inspired "Zelda in the Sacred Realm" for a few years now. No offers yet. Sacred Realm could be a really amazing and trippy setting that could be very unique on its own while also a fantastical amalgamation of lots of different stuff from all over the series.
I agree with a lot of what you've said here - but at the same time, I didn't find myself missing gated areas/required items at all. In fact, I thought Hyrule Castle was such a damn joy to explore for that reason alone, it was like a maze of mysteries that didn't have an annoying puzzle at every turn. Yes Zelda is about puzzles, but a lot of the time it's a puzzle you know how to solve that just takes a lot of time to do - there aren't enough "a ha!" moments for me to reintroduce this as a feature. That being said, there were a lot of those moments with the shrines...

I consider myself a huge Zelda fan (Ocarina is still my GOAT) - and that includes the old sort of "formula", but I loved Breath of the Wild just as much, and more than many Zelda games before it - and I'd love to see them double down on those things that made that game great. Reintroduce themed temples, but bring them back the same way they did Hyrule Castle. Let me feel like I'm exploring an old ruin that's still teeming with life and mystery, a place that I have to venture into to find what secrets it holds deep within, etc. The sensation that I was exploring something already lived in and explored (Hyrule Castle) was really neat - and I'd love to see that explored even further.

I don't know - I honestly feel as though as long as they're making Zelda games that are "open air" or whatever fancy name they want to give it, they shouldn't bring back gated areas/required items. I realize that's a huge Zelda staple being thrown to the side, but I really think that the sense of freedom in exploration completely outweighed any sense of longing I had for those things. We have more than enough Zelda games that nailed that dynamic, and I'm happy we've entered an era of something new. I really think bringing back those things would be a major step back.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
I agree with a lot of what you've said here - but at the same time, I didn't find myself missing gated areas/required items at all. In fact, I thought Hyrule Castle was such a damn joy to explore for that reason alone, it was like a maze of mysteries that didn't have an annoying puzzle at every turn. Yes Zelda is about puzzles, but a lot of the time it's a puzzle you know how to solve that just takes a lot of time to do - there aren't enough "a ha!" moments for me to reintroduce this as a feature. That being said, there were a lot of those moments with the shrines...

I consider myself a huge Zelda fan (Ocarina is still my GOAT) - and that includes the old sort of "formula", but I loved Breath of the Wild just as much, and more than many Zelda games before it - and I'd love to see them double down on those things that made that game great. Reintroduce themed temples, but bring them back the same way they did Hyrule Castle. Let me feel like I'm exploring an old ruin that's still teeming with life and mystery, a place that I have to venture into to find what secrets it holds deep within, etc. The sensation that I was exploring something already lived in and explored (Hyrule Castle) was really neat - and I'd love to see that explored even further.

I don't know - I honestly feel as though as long as they're making Zelda games that are "open air" or whatever fancy name they want to give it, they shouldn't bring back gated areas/required items. I realize that's a huge Zelda staple being thrown to the side, but I really think that the sense of freedom in exploration completely outweighed any sense of longing I had for those things. We have more than enough Zelda games that nailed that dynamic, and I'm happy we've entered an era of something new. I really think bringing back those things would be a major step back.
I totally agree. I loved Hyrule Castle and want them to really expand on that elsewhere a lot. It's not an either or situation for me. I want both types of experiences and mixtures of them together. I don't want a full return to lock & key dungeons, fixed progression and so on, but I think some degree of it could work with in the "open air" setup that BotW introduced. Having some amount of requirements in my mind wouldn't destroy that sense of freedom and if done right could be really beneficial. But if they don't feel like they can do it properly then I am more than happy with the general setup BotW introduced. But I do think it's perfectly viable and feasible to reintroduce those elements.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
A good compromise would be an "open-air" world, and "open-air" dungeons, with the one big central dungeon having some gated paths.

Like, maybe the central dungeon (I'm gonna call it Ganondorf's Tower) has a central route that leads right to Ganondorf, but he's way too overpowered at the beginning of the game. So, just like with BotW you have the option to weaken him and strengthen yourself through the main dungeons of the game. Maybe this time the main dungeons are specifically designed to give you these items, and you need to use those items to get to various rooms in Ganondorf's Tower in order to weaken him.

That way each dungeon is open, yet you have challenges that require you to use the dungeon items in order to progress. Maybe some of the "weaken Ganondorf" tasks need more than one item, like the hookshot and the iron boots or something.
 

War Eagle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
740
USA
OK here's my stab at how this can work. I'm on mobile in a Lyft, so forgive any typos and whatnot.

- World is completely open from the beginning like BOTW
- 7-10 dungeons (including hyrule castle/final dungeon)
- Dungeons can be done in any order or skipped if the player wants. You can go right to the last boss right off the bat again.

But how? While keeping the integrity of Zelda dungeons and it balanced?

What if the item in each dungeon was immune to degradation? For example, a solid mid grade bow that's unbreakable in dungeon 1. You could still find other, maybe much more powerful, bows in the world like in BOTW, but those will degrade and eventually break.

This way you:
1. Can tackle any dungeon in any order you want.
2. Don't need to limit dungeon puzzles to only the weapon/item that you find in it
3. Have a solution for people who hate weapon degradation, but can cater to those who liked it by making the most powerful classes of weapons non dungeon items.
4. Keep feeling of exploration and adventure in BOTW.

What are some obvious criticisms I'm overlooking? I kind of wrote this up hastily because I'm almost at my hotel, so I welcome any issues I may have missed.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
Central dungeon would definitely be a huge improvement on its own. And I would be happy with just that. If kept to less than 1/3 of the wider world content I think having secondary item requirements to certain standalone dungeons and things wouldn't be a big deal.

Having a central dungeon that you gain greater access to as you explore the world by activating "Shrines" would help tremendously in circumventing most issues with progression. Especially if they provide you with the majority of said secondary items fairly early on in the central dungeon.

If the opening area is like the Great Plateau and you get the equivalent of the four Runes that will serve to let you access ~70% of the over world content and then the initial 1/5 of the central dungeon gives you the majority of the secondary items you'll have access to nearly everything within the first 10 or so hours with very few real gates blocking you from anything.

That wouldn't be a huge burden unless you're someone who has zero interest in progressing the central dungeon and or hates looking for shrines but wants to explore everything else. Which I'm betting doesn't encompass very many people.

A central dungeon would be beneficial as well for a more seamless and less disruptive experience. Shrines in BotW could be a little distracting and disruptive. I don't think many people chose to just activate them but not actually complete them when found even if in the middle of something else. Plus the loading screens for both fast travel and entering/exiting Shrines made saving them up and trying to complete several in a row very tedious and time consuming.

If Shrines are just activation points to unlock sections of a central dungeon you could potentially progress several sections in a single go. Say you need to activate 4 shrines to unlock a section. You could activate 20 Shrines and choose to then tackle all five sections in one go rather than each new section as you unlock them.

This also means when out exploring or traveling somewhere and you find a Shrine it's just a quick and minor detour to activate it in most cases and not a 10+ minute one like in BotW between accessing it, loading screens and actually completing the Shrine challenge itself before going back to whatever you were possibly doing.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
Even if they don't radically alter the open ended shrine/dungeon system, and only change the ratio so it's 70 shrines and 8 full dungeons, I'd be quite satisfied if we were given the full plateau tools at the beginning again and only received non-essential, but undeniably cool items in the dungeons. I'm talking invisibility capes, canes that possess enemies, rods that flip enemies upside down, durable magic infused swords/armour etc. That would be incentive enough to find and beat them. Items that make it easier to survive and vanquish tough enemies.

A Link Between Worlds fumbled because the game didn't know if you had all the items you needed at any given time, so each dungeon could only revolve around one item, limiting puzzle complexity. I'd want each dungeon to be a devious labyrinth that took hours to beat and used the full range of runes/wacky green hand abilities.
 
Last edited:

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Even if they don't radically alter the open ended shrine/dungeon system, and only change the ratio so it's 70 shrines and 8 full dungeons, I'd be quite satisfied if we were given the full plateau tools at the beginning again and only received non-essential, but undeniably cool items in the dungeons. I'm talking invisibility capes, canes that possess enemies, rods that flip enemies upside down, durable magic infused swords/armour etc. That would be incentive enough to find and beat them. Items that make it easier to survive and vanquish tough enemies.

A Link Between Worlds fumbled because the game didn't know if you had all the items you needed at any given time, so each dungeon could only revolve around one item, limiting puzzle complexity. I'd want each dungeon to be a devious labyrinth that took hours to beat and used the full range of runes/wacky green hand abilities.

Sounds good to me. I'd want that same unceremonious approach used in BotW when encountering new enemies, locations, and challenges (few introductory cutscenes or scripted sequences) to be applied to these special items. I would also prefer there to be little explanation as to what it does once you acquire them to help retain that sense of discovery the player can get from exploring the overworld.

For example, have magic cane be stuck in a stalactite in an underground cavern somewhere—it's glowing and surrounded by floating sheets of rock and debris that you have to climb on to get to the cane itself, and once you grab it, the floating rocks fall, hinting at the cane's abilities.

It'd be great to have every area be designed with all these theoretical special items in mind so that no matter what order you acquire them (or whether you find them at all), they're useful and fun to use.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,334
So they're totally gonna come up with a BS reason to make the master sword way less viable despite Link getting upgrading it, aren't they?
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
Sounds good to me. I'd want that same unceremonious approach used in BotW when encountering new enemies, locations, and challenges (few introductory cutscenes or scripted sequences) to be applied to these special items. I would also prefer there to be little explanation as to what it does once you acquire them to help retain that sense of discovery the player can get from exploring the overworld.

For example, have magic cane be stuck in a stalactite in an underground cavern somewhere—it's glowing and surrounded by floating sheets of rock and debris that you have to climb on to get to the cane itself, and once you grab it, the floating rocks fall, hinting at the cane's abilities.

It'd be great to have every area be designed with all these theoretical special items in mind so that no matter what order you acquire them (or whether you find them at all), they're useful and fun to use.

Yep, the more unceremonious the better. BotW already did an impressive 180 from previous games in this regard - no lingering cutscenes on chests, telling camera movements which hint at what can be interacted with or companions ruining puzzle solutions.

I'm of the opinion that gated off optional areas on the map that pique your interest need not be a bad thing either. You might notice an area on your travels blocked off by a magical barrier, which you might choose to mark on your map or forget about. Then later on you could bump into an NPC who tells you that there is a cave with a rumoured treasure inside. You go there and find a magic stone idol which opens the barrier on the other side of the map. It'd just be a one use item which leads to a cool reward. I hope BotW 2 has more unceremonious caves that don't necessarily have a prefab shrine inside.
 
Jun 5, 2018
3,218
I would really like Zelda to be playable so I definitely have personal bias here but with the haircut I'd at least like to hope she will be a companion of sorts if not fully playable.

Also the trailer doesn't seem to be 100% in chronological order so as zelda falls it's possible the castle rises so maybe zelda will do the exploring on the ground while link is in some other world (sky perhaps) all of this could be wrong for all I know but I thought I'd share.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
I would really like Zelda to be playable so I definitely have personal bias here but with the haircut I'd at least like to hope she will be a companion of sorts if not fully playable.

Also the trailer doesn't seem to be 100% in chronological order so as zelda falls it's possible the castle rises so maybe zelda will do the exploring on the ground while link is in some other world (sky perhaps) all of this could be wrong for all I know but I thought I'd share.
I would kill for the game to just have Zelda as the playable character, but I won't hold my breath for even her to even be a side kick and co-op character since this is Nintendo. While the hair and trailer are better than the whole "Link's a girl" delusion people jumped onto with the original BotW reveal and subsequent response by Aonuma, it's not that much better. I'm not getting my hopes up in the slightest.

That said, a pure role reversal where Link gets imbued with the glowy hand and is stuck holding Ganondorf at bay in the risen Hyrule Castle while Zelda is one the left behind to find a way to help him defeat Ganondorf would be more amazing than I can adequately put into words.

This version of Zelda isn't some push over either as some make her out to be. She's headstrong and smart. Archaeology and ancient tech is her thing. It was magic she struggled with. She was happy to run off and look at ruins and get down in the muck. And she's seen and done some shit in the 100 years holding Ganon at bay all by herself, not to mention saving Link and setting everything up for his return. Spelunking in new ruins and dungeons and shit is totally in her wheelhouse.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
That said, a pure role reversal where Link gets imbued with the glowy hand and is stuck holding Ganondorf at bay in the risen Hyrule Castle while Zelda is one the left behind to find a way to help him defeat Ganondorf would be more amazing than I can adequately put into words.

This is precisely what I want. I'm hoping the glowy hand is something that incapacitates Link for the whole game, rather than the more likely scenario that we'll be playing as Inspector Gadget Link.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
It's about respect for the player. When you stop a player from entering an area because they don't have an item, or don't have 8 pieces of whatever, you are essentially artificially padding your game and telling the player 'you suck' at the same time. A story based game of course has a scripted progression, but Zelda games are action adventure games, not RPGs.
Stopping a player from entering an area because they don't have an item is just simple game design. I don't get why people see restrictions placed by the devs are something negative. They are absolutely necessary. There is a reason why you can't climb in shrines in BotW, or why in some areas of the game it's constantly raining, to lead you down a certain path, or provide a puzzle that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Or why there's a stamina meter that you need to upgrade to reach more places more easily. They don't do it to pad the game or telling you that you suck.

Setting boundaries and restrictions are an inherent part of game design, always have been. I don't see how items in dungeons or a more linear Zelda approach have anything to do with RPGs. Yes, Zelda isn't an RPG. It never has been. That means it also wasn't in the entire time from Zelda 2 to Skyward Sword, and all the masterpieces like OoT and Majoras in between, i.e every game outside Zelda 1 and BotW.

Acting like those 2 games are the only true Action Adventures just because the first game was like that while ignoring like, 30 years of Zelda game history, has always been really damn weird to me. Like, why is one more "Zelda" than the other? 30 years of game design with genre and even industry defining games like OoT count for nothing because the first game wasn't like them? Nah.
 
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Common Knowledge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,248
I hope those dragons come back and they play a bigger role than being flying resource containers. It'd be awesome if you can actually land on them and just ride them around!
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
So what's going to be the excuse for why the Champions' successors don't just get in the Divine Beasts and blast Ganondorf the second the castle raises up
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
So what's going to be the excuse for why the Champions' successors don't just get in the Divine Beasts and blast Ganondorf the second the castle raises up
They kind of already laid the groundwork in the true ending of BotW saying one of the Divine Beasts had stopped working. Might be the Divine Beasts only function as long as Calamity Ganon exists or some such. That loss of the Divine Beasts acts as an impetus for them to seek out the true source of Ganondorf himself to end things once and for all. Link has the Master Sword and she has the Sealing Magic, so no reason to waste time. That's why they find themselves spelunking and looking for this imprisoned corpse of Ganondorf and source of the calamity.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
While the hair and trailer are better than the whole "Link's a girl" delusion people jumped onto with the original BotW reveal and subsequent response by Aonuma, it's not that much better. I'm not getting my hopes up in the slightest.
Wait, what was wrong with people thinking Link was a girl in that BotW teaser?

So what's going to be the excuse for why the Champions' successors don't just get in the Divine Beasts and blast Ganondorf the second the castle raises up

Time travel.

I hope those dragons come back and they play a bigger role than being flying resource containers. It'd be awesome if you can actually land on them and just ride them around!

They should show up in the final battle the way the divine beasts should've in BotW.
 

Zip

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,027
Assuming DLC/a sequel with hyrule castle dungeons has been the plan since before BoTW was released, I wonder how many map locations lend themselves to dungeon placement. From memory I can think of...

1. The snowy mountains (maybe behind that big gate they ended up putting a shrine and giant skeleton)
2. The largely empty southeastern jungle
3. The ancient temple
4. Zonai ruins in North Central hyrule

I wonder if they'll end up doing a split of above ground and totally below ground dungeons, using these old locations for additions/changes to the world map.

At the moment I'm expecting more of a fresh new underworld than a heavily revamped Hyrule.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
Another pipe dream I have for the sequel is a multiple dimension mechanic using Skyward Sword's most notable innovation - the time crystals.

Imagine carrying around a portable time/dimension orb in the BotW overworld, allowing you to be in a pocket of the past/another dimension wherever you want, deforming the terrain in real time. A bit like how ALttP allowed you to place a Dark World portal or Oracle of Ages allowed you to play your Harp of Ages wherever you wanted on the whole map.

You could even have 3 simultaneous dimensions, where you place Dimension A orb and Dimension B orb in strategic spots to bridge structures that only exist in those dimensions.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
Wait, what was wrong with people thinking Link was a girl in that BotW teaser?
Thinking Link might be a girl wasn't a problem, but the level of confidence people had in that belief was rather astounding given what was shown, as was their insistence of being true it in some cases. Nothing wrong with thinking it was a possibility or something you wanted, but a lot of people got out of hand with it and it was pretty obvious people were setting themselves up for a huge disappointment which was sad to see as I know it would have meant a lot to many people. But it was pretty obvious it wasn't going to happen. Same thing here. I really want it to be true, but I'm not putting any faith in Nintendo to actually delivering on it.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Thinking Link might be a girl wasn't a problem, but the level of confidence people had in that belief was rather astounding given what was shown, as was their insistence of being true it in some cases. Nothing wrong with thinking it was a possibility or something you wanted, but a lot of people got out of hand with it and it was pretty obvious people were setting themselves up for a huge disappointment which was sad to see as I know it would have meant a lot to many people. But it was pretty obvious it wasn't going to happen. Same thing here. I really want it to be true, but I'm not putting any faith in Nintendo to actually delivering on it.
I only recall detractors to the idea going too far and being overly sure it couldn't happen based on series lore that never actually specified.

Though that's the environment Aonuma + team allowed to grow by there never being a playable girl in the series, coupled with the "Triforce balance tied to gender" response.

Assuming DLC/a sequel with hyrule castle dungeons has been the plan since before BoTW was released, I wonder how many map locations lend themselves to dungeon placement. From memory I can think of...

1. The snowy mountains (maybe behind that big gate they ended up putting a shrine and giant skeleton)
2. The largely empty southeastern jungle
3. The ancient temple
4. Zonai ruins in North Central hyrule

I wonder if they'll end up doing a split of above ground and totally below ground dungeons, using these old locations for additions/changes to the world map.

At the moment I'm expecting more of a fresh new underworld than a heavily revamped Hyrule.

Speaking of the leviathan skeletons, Zelda and Link's steed (new species or extinct species?) + restored Hyrule Castle architecture + lack of shrines and divine beasts in the teaser actually point to this being a time travel story, then we might be able to see the leviathans being alive. Maybe they're similar to windfishes like the one in Link's Awakening or that sky whale from Skyward Sword
 

Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,718
I think this time travel talk makes sense...what if ganondorf time travels back to 10.000 yeas ago or less? They can hse the same map but with major changes
 

jchap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
I can't even think about this game because my expectations go strait to unrealistic levels.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I can't even think about this game because my expectations go strait to unrealistic levels.

I think you're right. I seriously think from now on I'll avoid discussion of anything that isn't in or explicitly shown in promotional material, otherwise, it's just me longing for stuff that may or may not happen.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
I only recall detractors to the idea going too far and being overly sure it couldn't happen based on series lore that never actually specified.

Though that's the environment Aonuma + team allowed to grow by there never being a playable girl in the series, coupled with the "Triforce balance tied to gender" response.
No disagreement there, people convinced of it paled in comparison to the number of naysayers and lore "experts."
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
I just want to go explore underground and the underground flips upside down to where you come out the other side into another world. I saw this in a horror movie I watched recently. They went deep underground. Ending up exiting the underground into a new world on the other side.
 

Zip

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,027
I only recall detractors to the idea going too far and being overly sure it couldn't happen based on series lore that never actually specified.

Though that's the environment Aonuma + team allowed to grow by there never being a playable girl in the series, coupled with the "Triforce balance tied to gender" response.



Speaking of the leviathan skeletons, Zelda and Link's steed (new species or extinct species?) + restored Hyrule Castle architecture + lack of shrines and divine beasts in the teaser actually point to this being a time travel story, then we might be able to see the leviathans being alive. Maybe they're similar to windfishes like the one in Link's Awakening or that sky whale from Skyward Sword

I don't know how much I could see this game involving time travel. Timestones in select places sure (Akkala fortress would be a great place to live the battle that happened, though it's probably too late for that), but not as central to the game.

I expect the meat of the game (and new map sections) to be exploring the remains of Hyrule from 10,000 or more years ago, buried deep underground.

Time travel restoring Hyrule to what it used to be like (leviathans and all) would be a ton of work. Ruins are much easier to make than live creatures and cities etc.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
Not sure about you, but I'd much rather return to doing dungeons in a fixed order if that means more challenging, proper dungeons. It was a nice change of pace to mix it up a bit in BOTW by being able to do them in any order, but the simplicity as a result really isn't worth the tradeoff in my opinion.
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,904
It would be cool if Ganondorf is characterised somewhat like Thanos in Infinity War. Menacing, occasionally soft-spoken and terrifying in his relentless pursuit of his goal. Voice acting will only make him even more memorable.

Time to discard the pure evil/moustache-twirling characterisation of the older 'dorf in favour of something more nuanced. That would assuage my slight disappointment that he is the villain yet again, rather than some new antagonist.

Let's get Josh Brolin to voice him
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
I only recall detractors to the idea going too far and being overly sure it couldn't happen based on series lore that never actually specified.

Though that's the environment Aonuma + team allowed to grow by there never being a playable girl in the series, coupled with the "Triforce balance tied to gender" response.



Speaking of the leviathan skeletons, Zelda and Link's steed (new species or extinct species?) + restored Hyrule Castle architecture + lack of shrines and divine beasts in the teaser actually point to this being a time travel story, then we might be able to see the leviathans being alive. Maybe they're similar to windfishes like the one in Link's Awakening or that sky whale from Skyward Sword
Yeah it was a big mess , people wanted girl Link not pretty boy Link
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I just want to go explore underground and the underground flips upside down to where you come out the other side into another world. I saw this in a horror movie I watched recently. They went deep underground. Ending up exiting the underground into a new world on the other side.

As Above, So Below? I just watched that the other night haha