1) nobody is arguing against or disagreeing that playable Zelda should happen or is the most reasonable thing to do. we're note even talking about that.
Framing the issue as "taking anything away from men" by having one game where Link is a woman in a franchise of like 30 or so games where he has always been a man is unnecessarily hostile.
I didn't try to frame it as a double standard, it just doesn't make any sense to me. See, I get that representation for women is still something the industry as a whole has work to do on. But, I don't see people asking for female Kratos, Nathan Drake, Master Chief, whatever have you. Things like Crash bandicoot added female characters later on, which is the reasonable thing to do imo. I see a lot of new games giving us the options, I don't see long lasting franchises changing their main characters gender. Or am I missing examples?
Some people seeem to argue they'd want so see a female Link more than just playable Zelda, and I don't get it.
Let's be clear here, I didn't start the "take away" wording. And your example is kind of poor, because I could argue that women are just as able to identfiy with a male character as you are with a female one, rendering this entire discussion moot.
Because those are established individual characters in canon. "Link" is just a soul that reincarnates every few generations or so, but there's nothing in the legend that says that soul needs to be a man to be The Hero. Nintendo have written themselves into a situation where they can technically have all types of heroes! But the only reason Link is still a man is because of branding and licensing, and it becomes more and more obvious as time goes on.
Well if people are going with the facetious "poor men getting their male character taken away lul" angle, I'm going to respond accordingly.
1) again, you seem to misunderstand or not be aware of fundamentals. Link is not a bespoke character with a clear identity like Kratos, Drake, or Master Chief. Link is a mostly blank-slate player avatar who expresses some vague characteristics through reactions and grunts. A gender swap would be trivial and that is also the reason why a mere gender swapped Link is widely seen as "not enough" simply because it is so trivial and an empty gesture. Which is also why the discourse around Linkle annoyed me since she precisely wasn't just female Link model-swapped.
You're saying Master Chief couldn't be a woman? Why? We didn't even see that characters face in all those years. Maybe she just as a grumpy voice. Maybe there's a clone with a different gender. That's the easiest change ever. Kratos? A series with gods and dragons and pixies and magic that makes you unable to die as long you dont get in contact with mistletoe can't have magic that turns you into a woman? Nah, not buying that. "Technically", Nintendo could definetly do it. So do all the other companies.
Because Master Chief is canonically a boy named John who was taken into a military program. Wikis are great.
So now you're just trolling.
Master Chief has a clear identity? Kratos went from a raging murderspreeing psychopath to dad of the year. Nothing set in stone there. If the only crucial difference is that he isn't bespoke, I don't even know what to say anymore.
Maybe there's a second Masterchief raised in a smiliar way and we can do a reveal midgame with the helmet being taken off? Why not?
Because there's nothing in the writing to suggest this as a reasonable reading of the text that clearly establishes his gender, and the fact that you think bad writing is the same thing to having a character that already reincarnates be born as a woman for one game is both insulting and just more proof of that peak gamer fragility.
Because see above.
"Gamer fragility". If we get a female Link, I would have no issue playing as her.I just think playable Zelda is a better option on every single front.
My original question was why we need female Link when we have Zelda already. Every single one outside Moon just edited that question out of their quotes for some reason. Link, in fact, especially in BoTW, is meant to embody a human being. A mute one, but a human (or Hylian or whatever) being. What basic principle of writing prevents Kratos from becoming a woman? OP even pointed out Norse mythology has genderbending in it. Just because you repeat that I must be trolling doesn't mean I am. I didn't talk about "gender-swapping pixie dragons". "Transparent" my ass, maybe next time work on your reading comprehension before acccusing me of trolling. I talked about gender swapping Kratos, which, in a fantsay setting, shouldn't be out of bounds.
Nope! Essentially nothing since last E3, so basically just speculation right now.
If there's anything new and worthwhile, you'll see (probably several duplicates going by experience) threads about news first before this one pops up.
The appeal of this franchise is that it has inconsistency deliberately written into its own canon, and thus each game can comfortably experiment with gameplay and setting without being totally alienating. The moment we're out of the "Breath of the Wild" era, Mipha, Link's knighthood, Zelda's scientific prowess and adventurous spirit— all of that will be scrapped and we still start over with effectively new characters and relationships.
It's not about need. We can have a playable Zelda, or a female Link, or both. Representation isn't a zero-sum game, and on that front I don't see why the answers in this thread haven't been satisfactory for you.
You're not understanding what we mean. Link is one of many individuals borne through reincarnation. The Link in each of the major games/storylines is not actually the same person. BotW Link is not TP Link who is not WW Link who is not SS Link. I mean, it's in the name: He's a spiritual "link" across generations in Hyrule, and a "link" between the avatar and player. This isn't the case for Nathan Drake, or Kratos, or Master Chief, or Crash Bandicoot, or whatever other non-reincarnating character you want to use as an example. If you kill Nathan Drake, that's permanent; he's not going to reincarnate. Subsequently Nathan is the same exact Nathan across every Uncharted game. Link legit dies in one of the timelines and he pops back up some time later. The question then, under this knowledge of how Zelda's canon works, is why does Link always pop up as a man? The answer is because Nintendo wants to be consistent with franchise branding and merchandising, not because him being a man is intrinsic to what little identity he has across 30-something years of this franchise's existence, which is "courageous person with a sword," and that in turn isn't a characterization that is inseparable from manhood.
Eh, Majora's Mask used Ocarina's Engine and most of its assets, and that's one of the most unique Zeldas to date. I think this game might surprise us with the direction it takes.
Lol no Kass is one of the most liked characters along with Sidon and Urbosa
Honestly, the complete overhaul of zelda branding with botw is what pisses me off the most. Before botw, Link was identified by the green tunic, not his blonde hair/blue eyes. You could slap a tunic on anyone and they'd be Link.
They don't even solidify his name in most games. I went through the entirety of Twilight Princess as 2Chainz and no one online who knows this has ever gotten mad that I fundamentally disrespected or changed the character. Because Link doesn't actually have a character worth preserving, unless it's to protect him from women trying to change him to the wrong gender.
It was always a point that Link was androgynous in appearance, so turning him to a girl is like slightly nudging over a slider. People will notice it before going "Huh, still reminds me of Link!"
? Twilight Princess Link has the tunic in all promotional material and only has the village outfit for the first hour or two. BoTW has completely shifted focus and tossed out the tunic all together in the ways that it matters, as the 100% unlock is basically just a reimagining of Zelda 1's and isn't likely going to be recognized by canon. The Champions garb has showed how Nintendo now thinks of Link.
B-b-b-but he has a few multiple choice lines of dialogue you can make him say! And they're quirky! So much character.
This is like saying a dark skinned asian character is basically black because they have dark skin, or calling a shonen protag gay because of the intense relationship rivals have, and then telling people wanting an actual black or gay character to settle. That aint how it works. I want a female protagonist, not a dude who can "pass" as one.
Shovel Knight esque gender select would be goddamn amazing in every game, even if only for the two protagonists/love interests.
You are all talking about things that ultimately don't matter.
I'm actually glad Aonuma started turning Zelda into a meme.Sorry, but that's out too, we've got something with more, well, horsepower now.
I found horses fairly useless a lot of the time as you are climbing a mountain every five minutes.
What is the point of this argument?
When games consistently remind me of how the real world continues to snub us of anything, its not an escape anymore, its just dealing with the shit we deal with on a daily basis but now in our entertainment too.
God, this is amazing! Honestly the best Link design i've seen in years.I have blasphemed.
Man, that would be goodI have blasphemed.
uuugh the recipes!! :(
