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Deleted member 176

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Nice OP!

The whole "10,000 years" thing just convinced me that none of the old games were canon and this was more of a reboot. 10,000 years is a long time.
 
Nov 11, 2017
296
Italy
I'm not really interested in Zelda's timeline (nor Nintendo is, I suppose...).

I just think that, given the shift from the last eposodes, if Botw wasn't successful tey would have places it in downfall time... if it was successful, like it is, it would have reunited the timeline splitted by oot.

So: far away in the future, timeline unified.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8112

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So The Champions' Ballad came out and didn't have much on the lore but I thought that
blue being the color of the royal family was pretty interesting.
Also, they kept making references to OoT, with
Mipha directly referencing Ruto and OoT Link's relationship in her diary.
 
Last edited:

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
It's not a soft-reboot it's just another Zelda game. They have shifting art designers, directors etc. across the series and they make decisions that don't always gel with formerly established lore without considering it. that's the long and short of it. There totally was a notion of some timeline in certain games, like Wind Waker in particular but even then the game with the 7 sages it harkened back to was pretty loose. It was as if the predecessor to Wind Waker was OoT and ALttP combined into one game because the sages are both similar and also not the same and some references are exclusive to ALttP while others OoT whilist it pretends it's referring to the same era of the Hero of Time his sages and Ganondorf of that time. Skyward Sword was the first game they made after the whole fandom for the timeline when they started trying to cater to it. Similarly SS takes the notion of TP about a sky-people that are ancient but it is basically nothing like City in the Sky in Skyward Sword. I know each game is 100s of years apart. I just don't think the timeline is worth examining this much as I don't believe for a second there was nearly as much thought put into designing it from the developers' pov.

There will be plot-relevant references to the timelines of past games where it matters to a game's story, and the story of WW in particular was one that required a notion such as there being some interconnected lore between all games at that time, to make its message come across effectively.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,488
New York
I know they eventually will reveal the official timeline placement for BotW, but I kind of wish they didn't. BotW is probably my favorite kind of Zelda title in this regard. It has strong indications of being the latest title in the Downfall timeline, yet it also still has several other elements that come directly from other timelines. For me it fully embodies the whole "legend" aspect of the series, it's shrouded in mystery, with evidence of past games and eras, but is muddled and confused with contradictory information and things that rightfully shouldn't not exist together like any good legend passed down through the ages gets added on to. Like a game of telephone information being reinterpreted and altered.

I'd very much like for them to keep things vague going forward for at least a few more games. Never really saying how each relates to past games, unless it's explicitly necessary to the plot like a direct sequel to BotW, but otherwise just letting them stand on their own with ingame references to other games and times in the series. Then in another decade or so they can come out with a new Hyrule Historia and set things straight. The speculation is nice and leaving things unclear adds a nice air of mystery to everything that suites the series very well.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
It's a soft reboot that doesn't connect to other games in the timeline but references them in broad strokes.
This.
Also i really feel that when they shared the official chronology in Hyrule Historia, they made up the connections between the games to let fans have an official version.
There are Zelda games that are real sequels and obvious references between them, but I'm pretty sure the Zelda team never thought about following any logic regarding chronology.

BotW only makes it more obvious, they used elements from all the saga to fill the open world and that's all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,603
I'm not really interested in Zelda's timeline (nor Nintendo is, I suppose...).

I just think that, given the shift from the last eposodes, if Botw wasn't successful tey would have places it in downfall time... if it was successful, like it is, it would have reunited the timeline splitted by oot.

So: far away in the future, timeline unified.
hmm? why BOTW being sucessful or not affect its placement?
 

Skoje

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,540
I thought it was pretty much fact it was child timeline. I mean the only post split zelda was mentioned was TP. How would the other timelines know about the Twilight Realm?
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,820
All the direct dialogue references are to OoT with both Urbosa referencing Ganon's origin as a Gerudo several times and Mipha referencing Princess Ruto several times.

I like the vague way Nintendo loosely connects BOTW to past Zelda games. I hope the next game continues to play up the Sheikah and their omnipresent role in the Zelda series. They're the coolest of all the races, especially in BOTW.
 

ΑGITΩ

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
695
Though I can see the rational for why just about any or none of the Timelines works for BotW. I still feel strongly that it would take place in the Adult/WW Timeline.
Let's look at some of the reasons OP states:

1. A timeline which Ganon has attacked multiple times

According to Aonuma, the BotW timeline has been attacked by Ganon a multitude of times: "the world you are in has suffered many battles against Ganon. You can imagine roughly what period it is."

Ganon has attacked the Child Timeline twice, the Adult Timeline once and the Downfall Timeline 5 times. (However, this could only refer to the events described in BotW)
Is this correct? So lets look at this from certain Perspectives:
Ganondorf successfully takes over Hyrule in the Adult Timeline:
GmsgpGP.jpg

As stated in the opening of TWW, Ganon returned once again with no Link to stop him:
aGthcMK.jpg

This is what forced the people to take refuge as the goddesses flooded Hyrule just to stop him.

Then of course you have the events of TWW itself.
Which leaves a bare minimum of 3 Times that Ganon has attacked Hyrule.
______________________________________________________________________

Now lets look at Hyrule itself, now of course in the Adult timeline, Link and Zelda leave old Hyrule and find new Hyrule while what remains of old Hyrule still stayed preserved under the sea. The item Rock Salt indicates that Hyrule was covered in an Ancient Ocean, and of course 10,000 years ago already being in the future of any of the timeline, then TWW's ocean would be pretty ancient.
The Islands of Windwaker for the most part were just the tips of Mountains however, so without the Ocean, the land mass would have a lot of mountains. Which BotW's hyrule has. Easter egg or not, If you look at the raised points of the Hebra Mountains with the Island where the Forsaken Fortress is in TWW, the overlay is fairly identical.

Another thing to note is the Locations the Deku Forest. Sure it's relocated, but the Map kinda indicates why as well. You had the Koroks in TWW try to rebuild the Flora in the land, which explains it's movement, but if you look at the map once again.
Theres a Spot by Deya Lake in the South Eastern part of Hyrule that also matches up with South Eastern Part of TWW Hyrule:
DNvszuL.jpg

There's a large ancient fallen tree.
fToXMFV.jpg

There's a spot missing in the lower base...right where a face might've been.
pfLmV14.jpg
Yes, I'm implying that could be the remains of the Great Deku Tree of TWW.

______________________________________________________________________________________
The Zora/Rito connection.
Look, I get it, how can their be Zora's if Rito's evolved from them?
I mean how can Wolves still exist if Dogs evolved from them?
Hyrule IS NOT the World. Multiple Zelda games have made that known. It's likely the Largest/Most influential land, but it's not the end all be all. Zora's exist in the Kingdom's of Labrynna and Holodrum in the Oracle Games. Either way, proof that Zora's aren't just from Hyrule. So there's Multiple scenarios that can be inferred from this:
Just like when Hyrule Flooded and Zora's were given the ability to become Bird like to Survive, than the same could be true when it became unflooded, They could've been given the choice to remain Rito or Revert to newer Zora's and you might've had a split, some choosing to remain and some choosing the change back.
OR
The Rito migrated to a new plain once Gorons reclaimed Death Mountain for themselves and with the repopulation of Old Hyrule, Zora's from other regions, would've settled.
OR
It's a combination of both. Reason why, is that the Zora of BotW are the most genetically diverse of the Zora's represented. Most Zora's up to this point have shared a new universal look, but now we have them in Multiple hues. Genetic diversity in the wake of changing landmasses happens in the natural world, why would we thing otherwise for Zora?

This also falls in with the Lynel camp. Just because it exists in one timeline doesn't mean it cant exist in another. If 2 of the WW Races can sapossedly exist in the Downfall timeline, than whose to say the same isn't true with Lynels?
______________________________________________________________________________________
OP also stated this:
There is a possibility that New Hyrule was forgotten and they reverted back to Hyrule and its crest, however that would imply the Master Sword would have had to be removed from Ganondorf's head, which would be impossible.
I see that and raise you a
izwWADe.jpg


So this can be taken multiple ways. The Master Sword being immobile has been disproven time and time and time and time again, SOMETHING'S gotta be relocating this from one pedestal to another in the past of each game.
If Zelda's Legends prove anything is that nothing is "Forever". The state of Ganon in BotW is that of a man continuously trying to change fate and undo his own mortality. He could've left or ascended past his old body, or some dumbass pulled the Sword from his Stoned body to allow for such a thing. Everything is theory but this guy ALWAYS finds a way back, whether by his own means or by his followers.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, that's all I'm willing to type up at the moment. I've actually been itching to debate this timeline for months.
 
Nov 11, 2017
296
Italy
hmm? why BOTW being sucessful or not affect its placement?

Well it is just my opinion but... Ocarina of Time was just, before being published, the "first" game of the series.

The game then was a success (crirical, too) and has become the main entry in terms of timeline.

I suppose they are - were?- waiting for a new "big" Zelda to reunite the three timeline of the series.
 
Nov 11, 2017
296
Italy
hmm? why BOTW being sucessful or not affect its placement?

Well it is just my opinion but... Ocarina of Time was just, before being published, the "first" game of the series.

The game then was a success (crirical, too) and has become the main entry in terms of timeline.

I suppose they are - were?- waiting for a new "big" Zelda to reunite the three timeline of the series.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8112

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Oct 26, 2017
4,101
Though I can see the rational for why just about any or none of the Timelines works for BotW. I still feel strongly that it would take place in the Adult/WW Timeline.
Let's look at some of the reasons OP states:


Is this correct? So lets look at this from certain Perspectives:


Then of course you have the events of TWW itself.
Which leaves a bare minimum of 3 Times that Ganon has attacked Hyrule.
______________________________________________________________________

Now lets look at Hyrule itself, now of course in the Adult timeline, Link and Zelda leave old Hyrule and find new Hyrule while what remains of old Hyrule still stayed preserved under the sea. The item Rock Salt indicates that Hyrule was covered in an Ancient Ocean, and of course 10,000 years ago already being in the future of any of the timeline, then TWW's ocean would be pretty ancient.
The Islands of Windwaker for the most part were just the tips of Mountains however, so without the Ocean, the land mass would have a lot of mountains. Which BotW's hyrule has. Easter egg or not, If you look at the raised points of the Hebra Mountains with the Island where the Forsaken Fortress is in TWW, the overlay is fairly identical.


Another thing to note is the Locations the Deku Forest. Sure it's relocated, but the Map kinda indicates why as well. You had the Koroks in TWW try to rebuild the Flora in the land, which explains it's movement, but if you look at the map once again.
Theres a Spot by Deya Lake in the South Eastern part of Hyrule that also matches up with South Eastern Part of TWW Hyrule:

Yes, I'm implying that could be the remains of the Great Deku Tree of TWW.

______________________________________________________________________________________
The Zora/Rito connection.
Look, I get it, how can their be Zora's if Rito's evolved from them?
I mean how can Wolves still exist if Dogs evolved from them?
Hyrule IS NOT the World. Multiple Zelda games have made that known. It's likely the Largest/Most influential land, but it's not the end all be all. Zora's exist in the Kingdom's of Labrynna and Holodrum in the Oracle Games. Either way, proof that Zora's aren't just from Hyrule. So there's Multiple scenarios that can be inferred from this:
Just like when Hyrule Flooded and Zora's were given the ability to become Bird like to Survive, than the same could be true when it became unflooded, They could've been given the choice to remain Rito or Revert to newer Zora's and you might've had a split, some choosing to remain and some choosing the change back.
OR
The Rito migrated to a new plain once Gorons reclaimed Death Mountain for themselves and with the repopulation of Old Hyrule, Zora's from other regions, would've settled.
OR
It's a combination of both. Reason why, is that the Zora of BotW are the most genetically diverse of the Zora's represented. Most Zora's up to this point have shared a new universal look, but now we have them in Multiple hues. Genetic diversity in the wake of changing landmasses happens in the natural world, why would we thing otherwise for Zora?

This also falls in with the Lynel camp. Just because it exists in one timeline doesn't mean it cant exist in another. If 2 of the WW Races can sapossedly exist in the Downfall timeline, than whose to say the same isn't true with Lynels?
______________________________________________________________________________________
OP also stated this:

I see that and raise you a
izwWADe.jpg


So this can be taken multiple ways. The Master Sword being immobile has been disproven time and time and time and time again, SOMETHING'S gotta be relocating this from one pedestal to another in the past of each game.
If Zelda's Legends prove anything is that nothing is "Forever". The state of Ganon in BotW is that of a man continuously trying to change fate and undo his own mortality. He could've left or ascended past his old body, or some dumbass pulled the Sword from his Stoned body to allow for such a thing. Everything is theory but this guy ALWAYS finds a way back, whether by his own means or by his followers.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, that's all I'm willing to type up at the moment. I've actually been itching to debate this timeline for months.
Thanks for the lengthy post!
First of all, most of the info from my "for" part for the Downfall placement were just small tidbits that could be disproved, and this applies to the map and Ganon attacks too. (Aonuma seems to have been mostly referring to Ganon's attacks mentioned in the BotW prologues). Secondly, the "Master Sword" sleeps forever part I can't really disprove, but I imagine that by WW they had a better idea of the story and how everything worked, so they would be more careful with stuff like that. Especially considering that the King of Hyrule used the Triforce to wish for Hyrule's flooding.
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,213
Well it is just my opinion but... Ocarina of Time was just, before being published, the "first" game of the series.

The game then was a success (crirical, too) and has become the main entry in terms of timeline.

I suppose they are - were?- waiting for a new "big" Zelda to reunite the three timeline of the series.

This thread is making me want a prequel to BotW where you travel between the timelines to reunite them somehow. Switching between the destroyed Hyrule of downfall! The flooded Hyrule of we and the more advanced adult timeline
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,820
An NPC at a stable talking about Kakariko Village says "it's a strange little place, sort of like the original hidden village..." What is she referencing? Kakariko from OoT? I can't quite figure what "the original village" is meant to mean. Seems like a cool nod to something.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8112

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
4,101
An NPC at a stable talking about Kakariko Village says "it's a strange little place, sort of like the original hidden village..." What is she referencing? Kakariko from OoT? I can't quite figure what "the original village" is meant to mean. Seems like a cool nod to something.
Kakariko from OoT, probably, which should be somewhere near Death Mountain. You can find the ruins of a town called "Shadow Hamlet" at Death Mountain's base, too.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Its obvious that they went 10k years into the future because they dont want to deal with timeline fuckery
This is extremely obvious to me as well, but some people are just obsessed with this idea of the canon for some reason. There are references to most Zelda games in BOTW. It clearly, obviously, and intentionally doesn't situate itself in any particular timeline because it doesn't matter to this particular story. It's literally part of the text! Enough time has passed that an entire civilization built magical technology and it then got lost again. Anything that happened before is ancient history, it's all forgotten. Read that on a metatextual level and it applies to the franchise as a whole prior to BOTW. It's possible at some point that they make another game that has direct links to past Zeldas, and not just references. But this isn't that game. The references are just that: references.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8112

User requested account closure
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This is extremely obvious to me as well, but some people are just obsessed with this idea of the canon for some reason. There are references to most Zelda games in BOTW. It clearly, obviously, and intentionally doesn't situate itself in any particular timeline because it doesn't matter to this particular story. It's literally part of the text! Enough time has passed that an entire civilization built magical technology and it then got lost again. Anything that happened before is ancient history, it's all forgotten. Read that on a metatextual level and it applies to the franchise as a whole prior to BOTW. It's possible at some point that they make another game that has direct links to past Zeldas, and not just references. But this isn't that game. The references are just that: references.
Why do people take it so seriously and assume we're "obsessed" just because we want to make some connections for fun? Does it hurt you in any way? And of course we know all that stuff is mostly meaningless, as Aonuma himself stated that BotW officially doesn't have a timeline placement, all that he's said is that it takes place after OoT.
 

Onilink

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,586
Nice OP!

The whole "10,000 years" thing just convinced me that none of the old games were canon and this was more of a reboot. 10,000 years is a long time.
guys, it's not literally "10000 years".
In various East Asian languages, this expression means " a lot of time", but not this quantity.
It's more correct the " once upon a time" expression.
 

Nintenleo

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,212
Italy
I'm pretty sure that the Hyrule of Botw is shaped by all the legends told about a princess, a swordman and a dark warrior called Ganon.

The game is really forward in the timeline that every single thing happened in all the other games could have been happened in the centuries before the events of Botw. Maybe most of them didn't happen, but there are different versions of the legends. The people of Botw know about a Hero of time: in some versions of the legend he won, in some other he doesn't. Some believe that time split after the legend of the ocarina and that they are in the "downfall" timeline or the child/adult one. There were legends about a great flood washing the world, like the biblical one. There were legends about a hero who was able to travel between dimensions (Alttp, Albw and Tp).

All of those legends are part of Hyrule's culture and folklore in the "realest" world we've ever seen on a Zelda game, Botw. It's the last game in the timeline for sure and, like in our world, the memories of the past faded and some things are explained with the legends or with some different versions of the same story that may have happened or not. Actually, Ganon is a calamity in Botw and a lot of natural calamities have been explained using myths and legends during the history of humanity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
Personally, I think it takes place in a forth branch. This branch, however, is the original one, the predestinated future that OoT!Zelda erases by sending Link back in time.

Let me explain...

The timeline is:

SS - MC - FS - OoT - BotW

However, this "original branch" was erased by Zelda, by "overwriting" it with the Adult Timeline (the same act created the Child Timeline). If Zelda hadn't sent Link back in time, letting the events flow naturally, BotW would have happened.

This theory works from several point of views:
1) As Zelda sends Links back in time, re-writing time, we have to suppose the existence of an "original timeline" where this doesn't happen (and Link stays in the Adult Era - this is the timeline which gets overwritten);
2) BoW is full of references to every single Zelda game, but every plot-related references are only to OoT Adult Ending (Ruto, Nabooru remembered as a Sage);
3) We get an explanation to The Wind Waker backstory: the only instance where the Hero didn't appear to stop Demise's hate.

Hadn't Zelda meddled with time, the Hero of Time (or a descendant of him) would have appeared.
4) Both WW and TP act as a "tragic end" to OoT and it's all OoT!Zelda's fault. TP is a tragic end for OoT!Link, who doesn't get to be remembered as the Hero he was. WW is a tragic end for Hyrule itself which, well, gets flooded. If Zelda hadn't been so naive, the Hero of Time would have happily lived in Hyrule, this attack of Ganon would have been stopped and the Kingdom would have seen the Golden Age hinted in BotW's backstory. Zelda's naivity is a major plot point of OoT (Link opening the Door of Time, thus granting Ganondorf access to the Sacred Realm, is all her fault) so it thematically and narratively fits.

So the Zelda timeline is:

SS - MC - FS - OoT - BotW WW - PH - ST
.............................\ - MM - TP - FSA

With the other games taking place in a "what if" scenario.

Of course, this doesn't explain the Rito. However, in TP HD they added a murales with... young Link and some Ritos!
This kinda suggests a winged men tribe has always lived in Hyrule. Perhaps "Rito" in Hylian means "winged man", so when the Zoras become, you know, winged men they adopted that name.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 8112

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4,101
Personally, I think it takes place in a forth branch. This branch, however, is the original one, the predestinated future that OoT!Zelda erases by sending Link back in time.

Let me explain...

The timeline is:

SS - MC - FS - OoT - BotW

However, this "original branch" was erased by Zelda, by "overwriting" it with the Adult Timeline (the same act created the Child Timeline). If Zelda hadn't sent Link back in time, letting the events flow naturally, BotW would have happened.

This theory works from several point of views:
1) As Zelda sends Links back in time, re-writing time, we have to suppose the existence of an "original timeline" where this doesn't happen (and Link stays in the Adult Era - this is the timeline which gets overwritten);
2) BoW is full of references to every single Zelda game, but every plot-related references are only to OoT Adult Ending (Ruto, Nabooru remembered as a Sage);
3) We get an explanation to The Wind Waker backstory: the only instance where the Hero didn't appear to stop Demise's hate.
Hadn't Zelda meddled with time, the Hero of Time (or a descendant of him) would have appeared.
4) Both WW and TP act as a "tragic end" to OoT and it's all OoT!Zelda's fault. TP is a tragic end for OoT!Link, who doesn't get to be remembered as the Hero he was. WW is a tragic end for Hyrule itself which, well, gets flooded. If Zelda hadn't been so naive, the Hero of Time would have happily lived in Hyrule, this attack of Ganon would have been stopped and the Kingdom would have seen the Golden Age hinted in BotW's backstory. Zelda's naivity is a major plot point of OoT (Link opening the Door of Time, thus granting Ganondorf access to the Sacred Realm, is all her fault) so it thematically and narratively fits.

So the Zelda timeline is:

SS - MC - FS - OoT - BotW WW - PH - ST
.............................\ - MM - TP - FSA

With the other games taking place in a "what if" scenario.

Of course, this doesn't explain the Rito. However, in TP HD they added a murales with... young Link and some Ritos!
This kinda suggests a winged men tribe has always lived in Hyrule. Perhaps "Rito" in Hylian means "winged man", so when the Zoras become, you know, winged men they adopted that name.
That's interesting, thanks for the reply! I thought about a fourth branch once but I don't think the Zelda team would go for it as it muddies the waters more than they are already.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,820
I had no idea the 3 leviathans in BOTW had passing resemblances to past leviathans/giant creatures in other Zelda games. The Hebra Leviathan has the bones of a blue whale much like the Windfish but more interestingly actually has 2 smallish wing bones on its back. I never noticed that before and it seems intentional as the other 2 leviathans do not have them. The leviathan near the volcano has a flat plate like bone on its head which is super similar to Levias from Skyward Sword. Really cool little details. I found all this here: