The long drama of Channel Awesome, Doug and Rob Walker, and CEO Mike Michaud

[Cuburger]

I never followed Nostalgia Critic very closely and only within the last couple years even learned about Channel Awesome and it's link to Nostalgia Critic.

I assumed that with having so many people associated with the channel that it must be a good company that took care of it's people but this sounds really unprofessional in a way that I could believe in a 2010-2012 YouTube sort of way where people are still figuring the whole YouTube thing out, but they really don't have an excuse for as long as they've been doing this.

Lindsay is great though and only found out about her after she had already left CA so good for her.

 

[Deleted member 4260]

Kinda fell off of NC and CA in general years ago. Still like Brad Jones though.

 

[Kitsunelaine]

It's been a very weird experience to be tagged in all of this, my mentions have been going non-stop for the last 48 hours lmao

 

[Superking]

Can't believe they forced Brad Jones to host that horrid gameshow.

There's a special place in hell for these people.

 

[Wanderer5]

Starting hearing about some of these things when Lupa got kicked from Channel Awesome, and just really crappy. I pretty much dropped Nostalgia Critic (I wasn't feeling the reviews mostly when NC came back anyway), and have not been on Channel Awesome for a long while.

But course I am happy to be have been introduced to Lindsay and Linkara, who I still enjoy both very much.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

Can someone please elaborate on the LGBT issues?

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I'm going on memory, but I think it cropped up with his Matrix or Jupiter Ascending reviews and how he handled/talked about the Wachowski transitioning how he insisted that they be portrayed by men or something. It's like "they used to be men, now they're women" and "transexual" stuff so they should be played by men because they were formerly men, or something. Again, I don't remember the exact details.

Edit: I'll also say people have complained about his women issues, feminist issues, and trans issues since then, but I have zero first hand knowledge of it and can't vouch for it in any way.

 

[Beartruck]

Wow I didn't think Doug was so incompetent tbh. Water/food is such an obvious thing.

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Doug quit his day job by ripping off his shirt, standing in the middle of the cafeteria and screaming at the top of his lungs. Thinking things through isn't his strong suit.

Site had a lot of good talent though. Just rememberered Lindsay was the Nostalgia chick, completely forgot about that.

 

[mael]

Dan Olson's article about 8chan WAS about GG,
it was about how the place where GG migrated to after 4chan kicked them out was a shithole.

 

[Oreiller]

I can't find the tweet right now but some content producers, like Benzaie for exemple, didn't even get told they were fired by the site's management. They had to learn this second hand from other producers.

Also, one of the excuses they would use when they would fire someone they didn't like was that they wouldn't produce enough videos. Except they used this excuse with someone who would produce daily.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Is CA still a thing? I never followed it that closely outside that one guy who did comic book reviews

 

[Brian McDoogle]

I can't find the tweet right now but some content producers, like Benzaie for exemple, didn't even get told they were fired by the site's management. They had to learn this second hand from other producers.

Also, one of the excuses they would use when they would fire someone they didn't like was that they wouldn't produce enough videos. Except they used this excuse with someone who would produce daily.

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Yeah, I mentioned in some of the tweets, I think, that people found out they were fired or sites were shut down second handedly.

Twitter use MarzGurl:
"I didn't make a goodbye video, but yes, within about an hour of my leaving the big CA Skype chat, they deleted all of my stuff unceremoniously. They used to have "Goodbye" posts for producers leaving the site, but they quit doing that and just started pretending we didn't exist."
https://twitter.com/MarzGurl/status/974194940551942145

"And remember, I was there for almost a decade, and that's how they treat us. Like we never mattered."
https://twitter.com/MarzGurl/status/974195034848243712

 

[MMarston]

Doug Walker always rubbed me the wrong way, and I dropped him pretty quickly after discovering him through that AVGN thing.

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I used to enjoy his videos as a teen, but thankfully, I grew out of it. And I'm confident that that's the case because nowadays when I look back at his previous work -- or just happen to come across his current stuff -- it's usually more extremely cringey than entertaining. Especially the crossover movies.

Doug quit his day job by ripping off his shirt, standing in the middle of the cafeteria and screaming at the top of his lungs. Thinking things through isn't his strong suit.

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And I'm pretty sure he still brags about that shit to this day.

 

[tjac]

$90,000.

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This, the movies, and the shitty sketches he does are some of my favorite bad youtube videos. So good.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I used to follow CA for a long time. Donated to their charity streams, was a big fan of Spoony and a few of the other producers, but I fell off a few years ago as my patience for "people yelling about movies" waned and waned. I pretty much bailed on the site after To Boldly Flee, because it started to feel more like a celebration of Doug's ego than anything else.

Nowadays, I've got friends of friends who were involved with the site, so I've heard some of the war stories through the grapevine even as all of this dirty laundry was being aired in secret. Michaud has seemed like a monster for a while, and it's really disappointing how poorly the owners treated a lot of the people involved in the site. Nobody in power was actually experienced in running a business, much less managing talent, and a lot of the producers involved basically got roped into an abusive, predatory situation because of it. I feel for them, especially as a performer who's had the "we're paying you in exposure, so you don't get a say" excuse thrown at him.

Even though I've pretty much given up on most Youtube video reviewers as a general rule, I am glad that Lindsay has managed to build her own following as herself and discarded her old name - she's an incredibly talented video producer and I love hearing her insights and analysis even if I don't always agree with her opinions on things. I hope some of the others are finding success in their own fields as well, even if I've largely forgotten most of them.

 

[MMarston]

The real kicker I've realized about the NC reviews is that 90% of the time they aren't really reviewing anything. It's just one bad joke or overblown nitpick after another and it's only up until the very end that he drives some proper points about something. But more especially damning are most of his essay/editorial videos that almost always don't have a point at all and do nothing but straddle the "both sides" fence all the way up until the end.

Even though I've pretty much given up on most Youtube video reviewers as a general rule, I am glad that Lindsay has managed to build her own following as herself and discarded her old name - she's an incredibly talented video producer and I love hearing her insights and analysis even if I don't always agree with her opinions on things. I hope some of the others are finding success in their own fields as well, even if I've largely forgotten most of them.

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It is just baffling seeing what Lindsay used to do and compare it to the quality content she is pulling off right now. It sucks that she had to get her following jumpstarted by such a dumb platform in the first place. Nevertheless, I am always glad to see her current work.

 

[Chirotera]

Honestly, I feel so sad for Lindsay, given what she shared about her experiences in Hollywood late last year. It feels like she *really* hasn't caught a break and I'm glad she's in a better position now.

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What happened to Lindsay in Hollywood?

 

[crimsonECHIDNA]

Preaching to the choir but I also fell off the bandwagon post-revival largely because you could tell Doug was clearly going through the motions after Demo Reel crashed and burned. What I find interesting in all of this is the emergence of Crowd-sourcing platforms like patreon was really the catalyst to the dam bursting.

Like I know Lupa's big breaking point was Michaud trying to ban her and the other creators from plugging their patreons in their videos. It's like they were trying to keep the illusion that the producers were depended on the site to get exposure and sustain their careers, but once the producers found an outside source for income, the dominos started to fall.

 

[Birdie]

Not to be mean but...I mean, like how many Youtube celebs turn out to be nice people?

James Rolfe legit seems to be pretty cool despite his "persona" but like legit otherwise I never see a positive story about a Youtube celeb who ends up being a great person.

 

[MMarston]

What happened to Lindsay in Hollywood?

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She was a woman in Hollywood. You can put 2 'n 2 together from that one.

Spoiler

Sexual harassment

Preaching to the choir but I also fell off the bandwagon post-revival largely because you could tell Doug was clearly going through the motions after Demo Reel crashed and burned.

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[Brian McDoogle]

Not to be mean but...I mean, like how many Youtube celebs turn out to be nice people?

James Rolfe legit seems to be pretty cool despite his "persona" but like legit otherwise I never see a positive story about a Youtube celeb who ends up being a great person.

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James Rolfe is also tied to Mike Matei, and that guy has some stuff on him (extremely racist comics and him exposing his penis to his fans on whims).

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It is just baffling seeing what Lindsay used to do and compare it to the quality content she is pulling off right now. It sucks that she had to get her following jumpstarted by such a dumb platform in the first place. Nevertheless, I am always glad to see her current work.

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I could always kind of see what she wanted to be creaking out at the seams of her old videos, but it was clear she was hamstrung by the "YOU HAVE TO REVIEW GIRLY THINGS, YOU'RE THE NOSTALGIA CHICK" mandate she got from Doug/Rob/Michaud. I'm sure going to film school helped her crystallize her rhetoric and her point of view quite a bit, but even in her early days she was one of the more talented producers on that site.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

I could always kind of see what she wanted to be creaking out at the seams of her old videos, but it was clear she was hamstrung by the "YOU HAVE TO REVIEW GIRLY THINGS, YOU'RE THE NOSTALGIA CHICK" mandate she got from Doug/Rob/Michaud. I'm sure going to film school helped her crystallize her rhetoric and her point of view quite a bit, but even in her early days she was one of the more talented producers on that site.

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Wasn't this fairly explicit in a review she did under the Nostalgia Chick about Transformers? Like, wasn't there a "how dare I review a guy's nostalgia" thing?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Wasn't this fairly explicit in a review she did under the Nostalgia Chick about Transformers? Like, wasn't there a "how dare I review a guy's nostalgia" thing?

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Yep. Her crossovers with Doug were also fairly eye-opening, because even in those her intelligence and her interest in film as an artistic medium (and not just a vehicle for nostalgia) made her run laps around him.

 

[crimsonECHIDNA]

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Still can't believe Doug bet the farm on that. lol

 

[MMarston]

Whoa wait a minute I just caught this bit from the OP

To Boldly Flee was 3 and a half hours long? I remember somehow watching that thing in one sitting during my freshman year.

Freshman me was a dumbass.

 

[Buckle]

Never been all that familiar with the Nostalgia Critic, the few times I've tried watching those videos I found the character (particularly the voice) to be too obnoxious.

I do like Brad Jones though. Watch his reviews on his youtube channel every now and then.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

Doug has always been a bit off to me, always had little shit leaking through the cracks but nothing really heavy, and it looks like the dam finally broke. Channel Awesome's rise and fall for many reasons is fascinating.

Glad Lindsay got out, she's been putting out some of her best content ever since.

All speculation, but with some of the company James keeps, I wouldn't be surprised if some CineMassacre shit comes out in general.

That whole era was this weird Wild West of YouTube taking off.

 

[Blue Sky Noise]

this Nostalgia critic guy has to be one of the least funny human beings on the planet

 

[Deffers]

Dan Olson's article about 8chan WAS about GG,
it was about how the place where GG migrated to after 4chan kicked them out was a shithole.

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Oh yeah, I agree, it's just that it was about... how GG was a tip of a shit iceberg and there was so, so much more lurking underneath. Like the alt-right!

And yeah, I can't... help but feel like... there's going to be a lot of shit coming out about the early years of Youtube in general. Shit was a lot worse than we expected it to be.

 

[mael]

Oh yeah, I agree, it's just that it was about... how GG was a tip of a shit iceberg and there was so, so much more lurking underneath. Like the alt-right!

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It was also instrumental in showing that GG's ethical bone had as much spine as Paul Ryan and the extent of what they would be willing to forgive just to be able to have a place to coordinate their harassments.

And yeah, I can't... help but feel like... there's going to be a lot of shit coming out about the early years of Youtube in general. Shit was a lot worse than we expected it to be.

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You tell me, Youtube was a recrutment tool used by ISIS.
I wouldn't even be surprised if you told me that a CP ring ran entirely on it during youtube's early days.

 

[Rob]

Thanks for this, OP.

I got into Nostalgia Critic/Channel Awesome way late, after the NC had returned and after the movies. I remember hearing some stuff when Allison and Phelous were let go from the site and some grievances were being aired, like the Michaud stuff. I had no idea Doug and Rob were so full of themselves. But through them, I've become fans of Linkara, Brad, Allison, Phelous, Lindsay, and Todd. If I could I would contribute to their Patreons because they seem like good people.

 

[modoversus]

James Rolfe is also tied to Mike Matei, and that guy has some stuff on him (extremely racist comics and him exposing his penis to his fans on whims).

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Rolfe and Matei have made videos with Alpha Omega Sin. His relationship with both Gamesack and Rerez is why unsubscribed to all their channels.

 

[Zan]

At this point, I just use NC for his intended purpose: Remembering that a thing exsists (usually something I didn't watch). Moved on from Linkara after the movie he made (which somehow got people from TeamFourStar?) while the only two I still watch that are attached to the site are Brad Jones and that Theme Park guy. (because he actually seems pasionate about his work)

There's also Phelous, but they dumped him after that Lupa incident.

 

[AztecComplex]

Drama is drama. I mean you can tell from Doug and Rob's real reviews that they might be hard to work with, they have that kind of personality. But Doug does so much fan and charity work I just can't hate him over this stuff.

People make shitty choices, some people are hard to work with. Nothing sounds really insidious here.

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This is pretty much me. YouTube drama is YouTube drama. Sucks for those involved for sure.

 

[Super Corpse Soldier]

Doug Walker also had to be told basic things, like make sure the set had food/water. Everyone was cooped up in a hot attic waiting to shoot their scenes, and Doug gave everyone very little notice on what was being filmed. People had to explain to him basic filmmaking techniques/rules, to have a second camera, and to backup footage so it wouldn't be lost (some was anyway).
https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/973848908601352192
https://twitter.com/Obscurus_Lupa/status/974213561496100865
https://twitter.com/Obscurus_Lupa/status/974216590848921601
https://twitter.com/Linkara19/status/973853186019688449

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Dan mentioned during his Disaster Artist vlog about how he worked on some nightmarishly mishandled sets that didn't have proper food for workers. I guess now we know who he was talking about.

Anyway I stopped watching the Nostalgia Critic when he dropped the character and never came back for the revival. I watched a few creators afterwords like Spoony and Bennett the Sage. Real shame about Spoony's twitter breakdown and implosion. Guy had the best material out of all of them. None of this is surprising. With Doug in particular it just seems more callous and incompetent than straight up malice though. Now Mike, I haven't heard a single good word about that guy.

 

[NullPointerException]

Rolfe and Matei have made videos with Alpha Omega Sin. His relationship with both Gamesack and Rerez is why unsubscribed to all their channels.

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Wait, Gamesack are bad? Avgn and matei too? Someone fill me in.

Oh, and if anyone wants a laugh, the pilot to their game show is one of the most awful amateur things I've ever seen. Absolutely terrible and an absolute shameful thing that Cinema Snob was invokedi with that garbage. Somewhat sad that the pilot was funded by indigogo :(

 

[Cheerilee]

IIRC, the last time this subject came up, people were saying that Mike Michaud was the primary problem with CA's mismanagement, and that Doug was sort of a "secondary problem" because he won't do anything about Michaud (setting aside Doug's own faults, which are minor compared to Michaud). It's kind of hilarious if CA is in that situation because Michaud is 51% owner of CA, while Doug and Rob were dumb enough to give him personal ownership of the Nostalgia Critic IP. CA's issues are basically never gonna get solved (assuming Doug even wanted to solve them, which he apparently doesn't).


On another note, I remember Lindsay Ellis was deliberately staying out of CA muckraking because she wanted to be professional, but eventually she concluded that Doug wasn't giving her the same courtesy, as he apparently based the character of Hyper Fangirl on Lindsay, and then wrote in the Mad Max Fury Road review that feminists are "both sides" just as bad as MRAs, and that they pretend to like Fury Road because they want to ride Tom Hardy's cock (after Lindsay, a feminist, made it known to Doug that she really liked Fury Road).

What happened to Lindsay in Hollywood?

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A very powerful individual in Hollywood tried to sexually assault her in broad daylight, so she panicked and ran off, and then a powerful woman in Hollywood (who was in the room the whole time and saw everything) followed up and tried to convince Lindsay not to talk or sue, and advised Lindsay to grow a thicker skin and get used to the occasional sexual assault, because (according to this powerful woman) if every woman in Hollywood ran off after getting sexually assaulted by a powerful man, there would be no women left in Hollywood. Lindsay immediately quit Hollywood and went back to making Youtube videos.

 

[Quad Lasers]

I had no idea Lindsay Ellis/Foldable came from that channel(which I otherwise always associated with the glasses guy who I thought put out lame shit)

Mistakes into miracles.

 

[Buckle]

I had the misfortune of getting into Spoony long after he imploded.

Was linked to his amazing Ultima series reviews, got hooked and then found out.

Its a damn shame. He was doing good work.

 

[honest_ry]

I have tried watching Nostalgia Critic as it seems to be mentioned a lot but I find the guy to be far to irritating to enjoy.

Seems like a nice guy though. But who knows what the fuck happens behind the scenes.

 

[JCHandsom]

Man, this shit brings me back. This doesn't even touch on Spoony's meltdown or the Lupa incident, or the LordKat response. Finding out about all this stuff now is like finding out the people who starred in your favorite public access kids show had all this fucked up shit happen to them. I'm glad Lindsay/Dan/Todd etc. made it out.

I think it's odd how Linkara, who is still apart of CA, will talk shit and gladly side with the people who left or were kicked out, only to justify staying by saying "it's just business". Between that and the way he just barged into that livestream a bunch of them, contrapoints, and hbomberguy had about internet personas makes me feel like he's just sort of put up with because he's a nice guy who has good intentions.

Btw, since those videos that GG guy posted on CA drama were mentioned in the OP, anyone know why this is such a topic of interest to them? Like, I looked up "Mara Wilson Lindsay Ellis" and the first response was an alt-right forum. What gives? Is it because of the video Dan made that drew their attention or something? It'd be nice to learn more about the topic without worrying about its source.

 

[Englebert3rd]

Kinda fell off of NC and CA in general years ago. Still like Brad Jones though.

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Same here. I've stopped watching NC and CA in 2011. Even though I like the new Snob, I still love the old Snob persona.

 

[Chirotera]

A very powerful individual in Hollywood tried to sexually assault her in broad daylight, so she panicked and ran off, and then a powerful woman in Hollywood (who was in the room the whole time and saw everything) followed up and tried to convince Lindsay not to talk or sue, and advised Lindsay to grow a thicker skin and get used to the occasional sexual assault, because (according to this powerful woman) if every woman in Hollywood ran off after getting sexually assaulted by a powerful man, there would be no women left in Hollywood. Lindsay immediately quit Hollywood and went back to making Youtube videos.

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Shit, that's awful. She knows her shit, too - I wish she'd name names.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

Shit, that's awful. She knows her shit, too - I wish she'd name names.

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She has no desire to do so and has chastised people for their wild speculation on who it was.

 

[NullPointerException]

I had the misfortune of getting into Spoony long after he imploded.

Was linked to his amazing Ultima series reviews, got hooked and then found out.

Its a damn shame. He was doing good work.

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Spoony's earlier work was some of the greatest and funniest internet review videos ever. I recall getting into him just before he agreed to appear on TGWTG videos with Doug and friends. Back then, his work was only featured on TGWTG in a section and by golly was it miles ahead of everything else on the site. The FMV Games reviews, Highlander Reviews, other movie reviews, SWAT Let's Play, Final Fantasy reviews, since wrestling content. All great until he imploded and his videos were just not the same since.

 

[Kay]

What the fuck I'd never even heard about all this Dan Olsen drama. He's great.

Lindsey, Dan, and Kyle K all do great independent work now. Shame YouTube attracts such drama

 

[Chirotera]

Spoony's FFVIII review will forever hold a dear place in my heart.

If I ever wished that someone would get their act together, even if he didn't make more content, it'd be for that dude.

 

[Alice]

I had the misfortune of getting into Spoony long after he imploded.

Was linked to his amazing Ultima series reviews, got hooked and then found out.

Its a damn shame. He was doing good work.

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Why misfortune? He's since apologized, and not drifted off into that sort of shit he imploded over. He's also gotten much better psychologically.

 

[Heri]

Wow, I had no idea about any of this. I followed his channel but I stopped watching his videos a long time ago because his last productions did not seem funny or entertaining but I still liked Doug ...

Why so many Youtubers turn out to be awful human beings?

Rolfe and Matei have made videos with Alpha Omega Sin. His relationship with both Gamesack and Rerez is why unsubscribed to all their channels.

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I watch stuff from Gamesack and Rerez, could you tell me what's up with them? I do not want to support more awful people.

 

[Cocolina]

I guess the dream of becoming huge and having the amateur-hour theatre troupe to nostalgically look back on as "kids trying to do their best" before the big break has fallen apart and now they turn on each other as they fall back to their previous careers.