Precisely, and it would have been a good contrast between how Thor and Hulk handled defeat. But alas.
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Marvel Cinematic Universe | We had a good run, and now it's over
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I think these bits are in this article too.
But now we got a way better contrast as to how they handled defeat. I don't really get this, Hulk/Banner's arc is only strengthened by making him put effort in fusing his two sides over a long time, as a way of dealing with his loss. It's a much starker contrast with the way Thor handles loss how they've done it now, than if he would've fused in IW after about a day of struggling.
But that's the thing, it didn't shine at all and we as the audience didn't see any of the struggle and inner-turmoil/resolution that lead to Professor Hulk. I'd had much preferred if we actually saw it all happen than having it as a brief aside. Clearly they struggled with resolving this and I think they could have done better.
But we didn't see Thor struggle either. We skip ahead with all six of them. I understand that people would've liked to see more of the struggle, but I don't understand how the IW idea would be better. I prefer his merging as part of him dealing with failure. Fits better thematically with the six of them dealing with it in very different ways.
But extensive scenes in Endgame are used to explain and understand why Thor is where he is. We get none of that with Banner, he pretty much remains the same from his first scene to the end, whereas everyone else in the film seems some sort of growth or change. Hulk definitely got the short end of the stick between all of the original 6.
Yeah I can agree with that. But I just love what they did with him so much that I don't care much. The fact that of all people he is the one who gets to snap everybody back is just so perfect. From a being force of destruction and going in exile because of it, to returning to earth and using his own failure and loss to ultimately becoming a force of healing for all life. Love it.
Man, can't wait to watch Endgame again. Love that movie so much.
Hulk is a somewhat estranged property within the current format. It appears that the problem is that Universal holds the distribution rights and the theme park rights for the character. He's not exactly Spider-Man, so it's not surprising that the franchise has foundered due to too many cooks.
I won't rule out a future Hulk solo film. Meanwhile his evolution within the MCU has been impressive.
Look on the bright side, we can instead look forward to seeing Strange use that trick against Doom at some point in the future.
The resolution happened offscreen, and was discussed in a bit of momentary exposition. While I do think simply pulling it out of a hat in the middle of battle could have made it feel undeserved, it didn't feel "deserved" this way either. Ideally, there would have been satisfying build up to this point, prior to Wakanda - it wouldnt just come out of nowhere like a deus ex machina.
I definitely disagree that it wouldn't have fit with the downer ending. The biggest possible "downer" effect would come from a crushing blow delivered right after a climactic high - When the wrong person snatches victory from the jaws of defeat. Thanos snapped right when it seemed like our heroes had the cat in the bag - this wouldn't have changed just because Smart-Hulk had a break through earlier in the fight.
Strongly disagree that we don't get to see Thor's struggle. Thor's entire Endgame arc is about his ongoing struggle.
I'm contrast, the Banner/Hulk arc that begins in IW, ends offscreen DURING the time skip. Also, I didn't feel like it was presented as Banner/Hulk dealing with failure- it was the two of the dealing with Co-existence
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But it wouldn't fit. Smart Hulk is way too much of a shocking and funny revelation, it would've gotten in the way of the sad ending. Imagine seeing Smart Hulk standing there at the end instead of the Hulkbuster, after only 'knowing' him for one fight scene previously. The absurdity of Smart Hulk would stick out like a sore thumb and wouldn't get time to breathe at all. That stuff really wouldn't work. When you see him first in Endgame, they take their time to get all the laughs out of just seeing this strange merging. And even then, next scene you see him in (testing time travel), he's still funny just by virtue of being Smart Hulk. It takes quite some time for Smart Hulk to get some actual serious scenes, and understandably so.
Sure, my point was we timeskip ahead just like with Banner, to see the outcome of how they deal with their failure. We see Thor at a point where he's already gone way off rails. Just like we see Smart Hulk at a point where's gone way on rails, or however you want to phrase it.
It was explicitly presented as Banner/Hulk dealing with failure, he says that during the first scene we see him in in Endgame: first the Hulk lost, then Banner lost. They use that loss as a motivator to solve their differences.
Also, even though I agree Smart Hulk has less of an arc during Endgame, his arc isn't finished when we first see him in Endgame. His snap ends it, I'd say. But yeah, it's certainly less of a journey than Thor has.
I just don't see it this way. Smart-Hulk reveal would be shocking, but certainly not too funny to steal from the sadness of the ending. By the time Thanos snaps, plenty would have happened on screen to cleanse the pallet.
That time has passed doesn't really change the point. We see Thor while he's actively dealing with a struggle. It doesn't matter that we don't see 5 years worth of it, we see enough of it for him to get a full character arc. We don't really get an arc for Smart-Hulk- his struggle is over before we are introduced to him.
You're right about this point, I forgot about those lines
Him snapping wasn't really a character development. It was just a plot occurrence.
Banner really only does the snap out of reluctantance not really because he wants to or think he owes it to everybody. His line is "it has to be me" and his facial expression is more like a "damn I don't really want it to be me but I know no one else can handle it".
There is no reluctance or hesitation on Banner's part. He is simply aware of the responsibility on his shoulders.
Gotta agree with DeltaRed here. He doesn't do it relucantantly at all. He does it with a sense of purpose and realizing its weight.
Hard disagree on this one. Yes, it was a plot occurrence, but it certainly also was a character moment and the end of his arc. It was as much both a plot point and a character moment as Tony snapping was both a plot point and a character moment. That's one of the things I love about the MarkusMcFeely/Russos MCU movies, that they consistently adhere to the notion that a scene has to 'do' at least two things, and that every moment is also a character moment, besides being a plot point, an action scene, etc. While I agree Banner/Hulk didn't have as big an arc as Thor in Endgame, the end of his arc (so far) certainly was his snap and not just him merging into Smart Hulk. And to me it works so well because it's precisely the antithesis of what he struggled so much with, especially in The Incredible Hulk and Age of Ultron: the path of destruction he left behind and the fear he inspired because of it.
Most (all?) characters didn't have as 'big' an arc as Thor in Endgame though, simply because of them choosing to do the five year timeskip and thus skipping a lot of character development in favor of showing the outcome of how they chose to deal with their failure and loss. I'm sure there's a good movie to be made about Hawkeye's journey too. But, again, I love the choice, it creates a beautiful pallete between the six of them.
Even after seeing it so many times I still get chills, I love the MCU. Ant Man just punching one of those giant space worms won't ever stop being funny, also him stepping on Cull Obsidian.
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Looks like they didn't fix the shot of Cap's unbroken shield in front of the portals for the home release.
Oh shit, I never noticed this, lol. That'll stick out to me on every rewatch now, just like the "Thanos grabs Vision again" in Infinity War.
We don't know, but probably not.
I didn't notice Cap throwing mewmew at Cull, or Wasp's flying kick, and Spidey's reaction to Giant-Man stomping Cull. I'm excited to rewatch Endgame.
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And there's a shot of Mantis putting a monster to sleep behind Cap and Thor switching hammers. That scene is loaded with stuff.
The Monkey Paw's version of that happening would be Feige announcing that they are merging with Foxverse and Sony verse. Tom Hardy Venom and the whole Xmen Fox cast plus Kinberg coming back.
I'd cry on the inside, but the spectacle of a Feige heel turn at Hall H would be amazing.
I'd cry on the inside, but the spectacle of a Feige heel turn at Hall H would be amazing.
Feige whips off the mask, and it was Mysterio all along. Crowd goes very quiet, then they start to run for the exits.
Someone will burst out from some door and scream "receipts!", and we will get news about the MCU being a money laundering crime syndicate and that Captain Marvel really only made 1 million dollars
I was 5 for 5 when it came to the movie release schedule. It's all just fun and games though.
05.01.2020 : Black Widow
11.06.2020 : Eternals
02.12.2021 : Shang-Chi
05.07.2021 : Doctor Strange 2
11.05.2021 : Thor 4
Black Panther 2, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Captain Marvel 2 and FANTASTIC FOUR confirmed too.
And I've wanted this for years, Natalie Portman as JANE THOR!
05.01.2020 : Black Widow
11.06.2020 : Eternals
02.12.2021 : Shang-Chi
05.07.2021 : Doctor Strange 2
11.05.2021 : Thor 4
Black Panther 2, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Captain Marvel 2 and FANTASTIC FOUR confirmed too.
And I've wanted this for years, Natalie Portman as JANE THOR!
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