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Oct 27, 2017
4,929
I personally think FF not releasing on xbox has nothing to do with Sony; if they had 100% console exclusivity, they would be making sure people are aware of that. They obviously do the limited one, but not keeping it forever. Square just for whatever reason doesn't like xbox and refuses to release anything they develop on there. Why that is who the hell knows. Jez said he has heard some stuff and will post an article at some point, so maybe we will find out then, but from what he says it doesn't appear to be Sony related but an issue between Square and Microsoft.
That makes no sense to still port a few games a year but not any of the huge sellers, assuming this was some Square-MS business dispute. Stuff like mainline FF games or Forspoken get held back but you get other random games like Balan, Strangers of Paradise, Star Ocean, Nier, etc?

Gonna need a lot of receipts to believe this is some sort of petty, emotional snubbing rather than just a straight business deal with Sony.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,530
That makes no sense to still port a few games a year but not any of the huge sellers, assuming this was some Square-MS business dispute. Stuff like mainline FF games or Forspoken get held back but you get other random games like Balan, Strangers of Paradise, Star Ocean, Nier, etc?

Gonna need a lot of receipts to believe this is some sort of petty, emotional snubbing rather than just a straight business deal with Sony.

But as I pointed out, what about the pixel remasters? Sony paid for a two year old port that comes out on everything but xbox? Seems a little weird to me. And tactics ogre? Far more games avoid xbox than not when it comes to Square, and some of those games also don't even release on playstation (such as Harvestella) So thats why I assume there is something going on there.

I don't deny that Sony is capable of paying for full time exclusivity, of course they would be happy to do so. I just feel they would make a bigger deal about it if they had. Especially FF7, they would have been yelling at anyone who would listen that they had full exclusivity.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,947
CT
It's probably a combination of things

- Japanese games historically don't sell well on Xbox.

- Sony pays to keep specific big Japanese titles off Xbox worldwide/in Asia territories.

- Third parties love to take gamepass deals to port games to gamepass as it's no risk all profit.

- Xbox gets spotty Japanese support, so people who care about Japanese games are less likely to buy the system, even in a scenario where they prefer Xbox hardware/exclusives over PS's.

All four of these all feed each other and continue the downward spiral. I have a hard time believing that if FF7R or FF16 were day 1 on Xbox worldwide that said version wouldn't sell enough to have justified the port from SE point of view. Instead Sony pays enough to keep the game off Xbox for years, and then 3rd parties probably do the whole "well a late port likely wouldn't sell enough for us to fund it independently *wink*" to try and get a GP deal.

In a lot of ways it's kind of how Nintendo has been with most 3rd party titles for awhile. You often hear on sites like this people say "I don't buy Nintendo hardware for 3rd party titles just Nintendo 1st party". It's easy to understand why when many 3rd party titles either get late ports to the Switch (even in 2023 we're seeing this with titles like Terf Legacy and Gollum) or never get natively ported/a cloud only port despite being technically feasible (Kingdom Hearts).

The idea that a CoD port wouldn't have been successful on Switch was silly, yet ABK couldn't be bothered to do it themselves and Nintendo wasn't going to pay for it. We live in a world where the Wii and WiiU got CoD games but not the Switch, despite Switch buyers showing far better support to buy 3rd party titles. By continuing to treat the Switch/Nintendo hardware like a second class citizen when it comes to multiplatform releases, it continues to have second class support. Could this in part, also be due to Sony making deals for certain games? Based upon Sony's behavior towards Xbox you can't outright dismiss it.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,558
You don't need to spend money on exclusivity deals for every single titles to have a end result where all or most titles don't end up on a specific platform. You just spend enough on mostly big titles to make sure consumers who want those games are not on said platform. Gamepass is probably also a factor in such scenario, it's pretty much broadcasting that for those smaller non paid exclusive release you might as well wait for a deal and remove any risk involved.

With that being said I will never completely ignore from the equation that japanese companies on average are just more.. mind bogglingly not great when it comes to multiplatform. I mean just taking the more recent example I can think of, no one spent money preventing the release of grimgrimoire oncemore on PC.
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,027
I updated the OT with next key dates and the last 15 days.

As you can see, the rest of April is fully packed with potential relevant news. Then, early May should bring the decision from the EC and in late May we should get the one from SAMR in China.

Finally, add the decisions from South Korea, Turkey, South Africa or Australia during April - May.

On the FTC side, the discovery phase was finally closed (on April 7th). So, I guess that now we'll start to hear more about the witness and experts lists.

Fun weeks ahead, no doubt!

THE LAST 15 DAYS

- March 24th: The CMA modified the original provisional findings and dropped the concerns about the console market.

- March 28th: The Japan Fair Trade Commission approved the acquisition.

- April 5th: MS could have expanded the remedy offer to the EC; talks with the CMA continue.

- April 5th: the CMA updated the administrative timetable (April 12th, final deadline for all parties' responses/submissions).

- April 6th: the CMA published the responses to the addendum PF.

- April 6th: the remedies working paper from the CMA likely to be issued by the end of next week.

NEXT KEY DATES:

- April 10th 2023: the Canada Competition Bureau will update the list of merger reviews completed during the previous month (probably nothing will come out of it, but my guess is that sooner rather than later there will be a decision).

- April 12th 2023: final deadline for all parties' responses/submissions to the CMA.

- April 14th 2023: the CMA will likely issue the remedies working paper (MS/ABK will have 5 working days to respond).

- Early April 2023: the EC will keep assessing the market test conducted for the remedies proposed by MS.

- April 18th 2023: second extension of the original outside date. If MS quits by that date they have to pay a termination fee of $2,500,000,000; if they don't, the outside date gets extended until July 18th 2023.

- April 26th 2023: final report and remedies from the CMA.

- April 28th 2023: decision from New Zealand.

- May 2023: decision from the SAMR in China.

- May 22nd 2023: provisional deadline for a decision from the EC.

- July 18th 2023: The end of the second extension and final outside date in the merger agreement. If MS quits by that date they have to pay a termination fee of $3,000,000,000; if they don't, they'll have to renegotiate the outside date with ABK.

- August 2nd 2023: beginning of the FTC in-house trial.

- Early 2024: decision from the FTC administrative law judge.

- Anything beyond that: unknown

Meanwhile...

UK Has No Margin For Error in Microsoft-Activision Deal (from the Washington Post, on April 3rd)

New bit of "info" (opinion):

Microsoft's remaining task is to address concerns about the deal's impact on the emerging cloud-gaming market. It's going out of its way to show it wouldn't restrict key Activision content to its own streaming platform, signing 10-year licensing agreements with rival gaming providers such as Nvidia Corp. These partnerships could help the takeover gain clearance, argues Bloomberg Intelligence litigation expert Jennifer Rie, given the European authorities appear likely to accept Microsoft's commitments and the deal has "the law and facts" on its side in the US.

Questions/Comments:

The three cloud companies that Microsoft is about to sign deals with, is that going to end the EU investigation altogether? It sounds like that's it in the EU based on the article.

Very likely, but there is an another complaint from Cloud Infrastructure Services Providers in Europe (CISPE), a trade group whose members include Amazon. They are not part of that settlement. So, MS will still have work to do in the EU.

On the other hand, this week Ofcom (in UK) said it was particularly worried about the practices of Amazon and Microsoft because of their market positions in cloud, and planned to ask the CMA to investigate. :p

Cloud is going to be a complex industry from a regulatory perspective for many years.

Idas any reason to believe EC gets done ahead of schedule?

The latest decisions from the EC regarding mergers in Phase 2:

- The acquisition of VOO and Brutélé by Orange: approved on March 20th 2023, provisional deadline was April 11th 2023.

- Commission prohibits acquisition of GRAIL by Illumina: rejected on September 6th 2022, provisional deadline was September 12th 2022.

- Commission clears the merger of Cargotec with Konecranes, subject to conditions: approved on February 24th 2022, provisional deadline was March 3rd 2022.

- Commission clears acquisition of Kustomer by Meta, subject to conditions: approved on January 27th 2022, provisional deadline was February 4th 2022.

- Commission clears acquisition of GrandVision by EssilorLuxottica, subject to conditions: approved on March 23rd 2021; provisional deadline was April 12th 2021.

As you can see, the EC usually makes a decision ahead of schedule.

I'm still expecting the decision from the EC in May, but 1-2 weeks earlier than May 22nd.

Isn't 2 weeks to review AND consider all the submissions for the final report very little? Although I suppose most of the work was done in the PF

If the remedies working paper is really coming by the end of next week, is going to be even less than 2 weeks :S

In any case, and as you say, the work already done in the PF helps as well as the one done on remedies since February (the final report has a bigger focus on that).

ahh yes there it is.

wonder what the expansion would be..

The term (10 years) is one of the most likely candidates.

Could it be they agreed to a remedy with the CMA and are offering it to the EC as well?

Yes, it's very likely that MS is offering a global remedy package.

Edited: typo corrected.

I mostly agree with this. Microsoft will probably offer FTC remedies one last time, both to try to get them accepted, and to perfect their "litigate the fix" angle. I don't know that the FTC can cause 6-9 months delay. I am not assuming that they can get a preliminary injunction at this point. If that effort fails, the delay is much shorter. Conversely, if they get the preliminary injunction, then win their internal trial (or overrule the ALJ) the delay could be substantially longer. So we might be looking at shorter than 6 or longer than 9 months, depending the Federal Court's decision on the preliminary injunction. * I could see a temporary injunction while the preliminary injunction is litigated too, but if discovery is substantially complete in the internal FTC trial, that could be some fast litigation.

Yes, you are right, it could be shorter than 6 months or it could take even longer than 9.

If the EC and CMA approve the acquisition, I'm really curious to see how MS deals with the FTC (if they don't accept remedies).

I'm no expert and only read the MS one so far but it seems good. They're basically saying the cloud deals shows that MS won't withhold ABK content from basically any cloud service asking for it, right?

Yes, that's how the remedy offered by MS works regarding cloud gaming.

Huh. I notice this wording certainly does not say what Sony says it says now. I wonder why they didn't try to make this claim before, then. Like (if this is the only reference), they avoided saying "actually, our survey says it's even worse than your survey". Maybe they just didn't want to ruffle feathers when it was going their way. But.. still. IF this is what they're referring to, then this doesn't seem to say anything about switching rates at all, just the potential effects of switching.. which.. I don't think anyone doubts?

The survey from Sony precedes the one from the CMA

Has the results of Sony's survey bin made public?

I don't think so, that's why I thought that paragraph was interesting.

Do we know if Rietveld's submission was commissionned by the CMA ? (was not commissioned by MS)

Nonetheless, interesting to see if it will have an additional impact.

I don't think so. He says that he has been following the case and once the console concerns were dropped he thought about writing regarding the cloud gaming issues.

Lets say the CMA agrees with the remedies that Microsoft has issued, what is the need for the papers?

It's part of the process.

Idas : I only work in the USA. While I have somewhat educated myself on the CMA and EC due to my interest in this deal, there are gaps in my knowledge. I have identified one such gap that I am hoping you can fill. if Sony were to seek review of a decision which permitted the merger to go through, would that appeal automatically stay the approval, such that the deal could not close until a decision on the appeal, or would we be at a point where Sony would have to petition for a stay pending appeal? If Sony would have to Petition for a Stay, what would the procedure for this be? Would they ask the CMA to stay its own order, with the decision to stay appealable to the CAT, or would they petition the CAT for a stay directly?

I am sure there are procedures out there, but this would be the first occurrence I've seen of an interested third party petitioning the CAT for review, so I am a little fuzzy on the immediate impact of that pending the CAT's decision. When it is an actual party to the transaction, they are appealing a denial, so there is generally not a threat of the deal closing pending review.

In Europe, if Sony appeals the decision (being a third party), they must show that it causes a "direct and individual concern to them" (article 263 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). As a competitor to the merging parties I think that they should be able to argue in that sense. After all, competitors are a major source of third-party appeals.

However, appealing the decision wouldn't have a suspensory effect (article 278 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union doesn't allow it).

Then, Sony could request the President of the General Court (the court that would review the decision from the EC in first instance) to suspend the act (the decision) or adopt some other interim measure. But Sony should be able to show that adopting such a measure is urgent. For example, something like pure financial loss (as Jim Ryan implied to the CMA when he said that "Our business would never recover") is only considered irreparable if it threatens the existence of the applicant (Sony) or irreparably modifies its market share (hard to argue in this case, I think).

In any case, the General Court will always balance the interests of Sony against the interests of MS/ABK and the importance of maintaining effective competition before granting a request for suspension or a similar measure.

If Sony cannot temporarily suspend the decision, and depending on the procedure, they would have to wait between 1 and 3 years before the General Court reaches a judgment about it.

In UK, the basics are pretty similar:

- Third parties can appeal if they have a "speci􏰀c interest and strong feelings that render them aggrieved."
- No suspensory effect on the decision appealed, "Except in so far as a direction to the contrary is given by the CAT".

I think that the main differences between both jurisdictions are timing (2 months to appeal against the EC, 4 weeks against the CMA) and that in the General Court a substantive review of the EC decision (with limitations) is possible. Meanwhile, the CAT only admits a judicial review of the decision.
 
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Deleted member 133522

Mar 20, 2023
583
But what is parity? I'm not even sure if parity is a clear concept in the industry. Would parity mean that the developers have to ignore specific hardware in a platform when another lacks it? For example, would developers ignore the PS5 ssd because XSX does not have it? Or the other way around, should a developer ignore specific RNDA 2 features in XSX because PS5 doesn't have them? So parity would mean to program for the lowest common denominator? Or does parity mean equal set of functional features?

I believe it mean equal set of functional features, which is something that is frequently not happening nowadays and happens always in a direction that favors Sony. Could present day COD be considered parity compliant nowadays? No. So I believe that, even if in in the future MS will keep functional parity, the technical advantage that Sony is benefiting due to being the lead machine have come to an end.

I believe parity would be an equal set of features and performance, also taking into consideration key differences in how each console is designed. For example, Sony's SSD is faster in general, so unless you're gonna hobble it (which is ethically pretty questionable), it's going to be faster. But you can definitely work to optimize CoD loading times a bit more on Xbox to close the gap, and in that respect, there will likely be some gains on Xbox that weren't there previously (with that being said, the multiplayer component of CoD doesn't care about SSD since you're waiting for everyone else anyway). That doesn't mean it will be better to play it on Xbox, but closer to equal than it has been. Ideally, it is as close to true parity in performance and features across both platforms as possible.

With that being said, I think Microsoft may also include a few above and beyonds to parity, such as support for Sony's controller-specific features to the level MW2 included. While outside the scope of parity, I think there's potential to include them as a show of goodwill regardless of a contract. And because I think Microsoft is honest in that they still want to sell copies on PS5 and have financial motivations to do so. I definitely acknowledge it's possible these features aren't included moving forward but I doubt it.

In any case, your original point was that it will be best to play on Xbox/PC from a technical and content perspective, and I disagree with that. CoD on both platforms is already very close to true parity, with some slight advantages for Sony performance wise, in addition to support for their controller-specific features. I think the performance gets balanced out more, which is a good thing, and that the controller-specific features probably end up staying, even. Who knows what the distant future brings, but I see this being the case for a long time.

I don't foresee any differences in content, in terms of availability. Both will have access to the same content, ultimately. Obviously Game Pass creates opportunities for included content, where as Sony players may need to pay.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
But its not just FF, all Square developed games aren't releasing on xbox. So is Sony paying for exclusivity on like.. Tactics Ogre, which seems unlikely? And if thats the case, why was FF pixel remasters late to playstation? I think a company can call themselves the home of final fantay and still pay only pay for limited exclusivity. If FF16 was console exclusive forever, Sony would say so.
I think the pixel remasters are a great case for arguing there's more going on. The games were on mobile, so the port to PlayStation is non-trivial. Porting to Xbox would be added work, but it'd be a fraction of the difficulty of getting it from mobile to PS5 (which already probably isn't as hard as going the other direction). If this were just a matter of "it doesn't sell on Xbox in Japan", it seems ludicrous to suggest that the added cost or time of adding an Xbox port alongside the far more disparate PS5 and Switch ports + mobile ports (when they clearly have no technical issue doing it for smaller games that would have sold even fewer copies) would somehow not be worth the return.

Now, I agree that there's not necessarily a clear reason to suggest that Sony paid for exclusivity, if only because I then wouldn't expect Switch to get it. However, Sony doesn't always talk about its full exclusivity. Because it doesn't have to. It has the marketing power and the default status in the industry, such that if they say nothing people tend to assume that it's a forever exclusive. FF7R isn't a forever exclusive. Except it's never coming to Xbox. And Sony doesn't have to say a damn word, because the ambiguity benefits them and it serves them in the future when they can continue to be ambiguous (such as not saying when a game isn't exclusive at all - but still reaping the benefits of people believing that it is by default).

I don't think we can really rule out any possibility, from what little we know. There are likely some non-rational or seemingly illogical decisions at play here. Trying to pin down who's making them, though, is currently not possible.
 

RedRum

Newbie Paper Plane Pilot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,365
I updated the OT with next key dates and the last 15 days.

As you can see, the rest of April is fully packed with potential relevant news. Then, early May should bring the decision from the EC and in late May we should get the one from SAMR in China.

Finally, add the decisions from South Korea, Turkey, South Africa or Australia during April - May.

On the FTC side, the discovery phase was finally closed (on April 7th). So, I guess that now we'll start to hear more about the witness and experts lists.

Fun weeks ahead, no doubt!

THE LAST 15 DAYS

- March 24th: The CMA modified the original provisional findings and dropped the concerns about the console market.

- March 28th: The Japan Fair Trade Commission approved the acquisition.

- April 5th: MS could have expanded the remedy offer to the EC; talks with the CMA continue.

- April 5th: the CMA updated the administrative timetable (April 12th, final deadline for all parties' responses/submissions).

- April 6th: the CMA published the responses to the addendum PF.

- April 6th: the remedies working paper from the CMA likely to be issued by the end of next week.

NEXT KEY DATES:

- April 10th 2023: the Canada Competition Bureau will update the list of merger reviews completed during the previous month (probably nothing will come out of it, but my guess is that sooner rather than later there will be a decision).

- April 12th 2023: final deadline for all parties' responses/submissions to the CMA.

- April 14th 2023: the CMA will likely issue the remedies working paper (MS/ABK will have 5 working days to respond).

- Early April 2023: the EC will keep assessing the market test conducted for the remedies proposed by MS.

- April 18th 2023: second extension of the original outside date. If MS quits by that date they have to pay a termination fee of $2,500,000,000; if they don't, the outside date gets extended until July 18th 2023.

- April 26th 2023: final report and remedies from the CMA.

- April 28th 2023: decision from New Zealand.

- May 2023: decision from the SAMR in China.

- May 22nd 2023: provisional deadline for a decision from the EC.

- July 18th 2023: The end of the second extension and final outside date in the merger agreement. If MS quits by that date they have to pay a termination fee of $3,000,000,000; if they don't, they'll have to renegotiate the outside date with ABK.

- August 2nd 2023: beginning of the FTC in-house trial.

- Early 2024: decision from the FTC administrative law judge.

- Anything beyond that: unknown

Meanwhile...

UK Has No Margin For Error in Microsoft-Activision Deal (from the Washington Post, on April 3rd)

New bit of "info" (opinion):



Questions/Comments:



Very likely, but there is an another complaint from Cloud Infrastructure Services Providers in Europe (CISPE), a trade group whose members include Amazon. They are not part of that settlement. So, MS will still have work to do in the EU.

On the other hand, this week Ofcom (in UK) said it was particularly worried about the practices of Amazon and Microsoft because of their market positions in cloud, and planned to ask the CMA to investigate. :p

Cloud is going to be a complex industry from a regulatory perspective for many years.



The latest decisions from the EC regarding mergers in Phase 2:

- The acquisition of VOO and Brutélé by Orange: approved on March 20th 2023, provisional deadline was April 11th 2023.

- Commission prohibits acquisition of GRAIL by Illumina: rejected on September 6th 2022, provisional deadline was September 12th 2022.

- Commission clears the merger of Cargotec with Konecranes, subject to conditions: approved on February 24th 2022, provisional deadline was March 3rd 2022.

- Commission clears acquisition of Kustomer by Meta, subject to conditions: approved on January 27th 2022, provisional deadline was February 4th 2022.

- Commission clears acquisition of GrandVision by EssilorLuxottica, subject to conditions: approved on March 23rd 2021; provisional deadline was April 12th 2021.

As you can see, the EC usually makes a decision ahead of schedule.

I'm still expecting the decision from the EC in May, but 1-2 weeks earlier than May 22nd.



If the remedies working paper is really coming by the end of next week, is going to be even less than 2 weeks :S

In any case, and as you say, the work already done in the PF helps as well as the one done on remedies since February (the final report has a bigger focus on that).



The term (10 years) is one of the most likely candidates.



Yes, it's very likely that MS is offering a global remedy package.



Yes, you are right, it could be shorter than 6 months or it could take even longer than 9.

If the EC and CMA approve the acquisition, I'm really curious to see how MS deals with the FTC (if they don't accept remedies).



Yes, that's how the remedy offered by MS works regarding cloud gaming.



The survey from Sony precedes the one from the CMA



I don't think so, that's why I thought that paragraph was interesting.



I don't think so. He says that he has been following the case and once the console concerns were dropped he thought about writing regarding the cloud gaming issues.



It's part of the process.



In Europe, if Sony appeals the decision (being a third party), they must show that it causes a "direct and individual concern to them" (article 263 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). As a competitor to the merging parties I think that they should be able to argue in that sense. After all, competitors are a major source of third-party appeals.

However, appealing the decision wouldn't have a suspensory effect (article 278 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union doesn't allow it).

Then, Sony could request the President of the General Court (the court that would review the decision from the EC in first instance) to suspend the act (the decision) or adopt some other interim measure. But Sony should be able to show that adopting such a measure is urgent. For example, something like pure financial loss (as Jim Ryan implied to the CMA when he said that "Our business would never recover") is only considered irreparable if it threatens the existence of the applicant (Sony) or irreparably modifies its market share (hard to argue in this case, I think).

In any case, the General Court will always balance the interests of Sony against the interests of MS/ABK and the importance of maintaining effective competition before granting a request for suspension or a similar measure.

If Sony cannot temporarily suspend the decision, and depending on the procedure, they would have to wait between 1 and 3 years before the General Court reaches a judgment about it.

In UK, the basics are pretty similar:

- Third parties can appeal if they have a "speci􏰀c interest and strong feelings that render them aggrieved."
- No suspensory effect on the decision appealed, "Except in so far as a direction to the contrary is given by the CAT".

I think that the main differences between both jurisdictions are timing (2 months to appeal against the EC, 4 weeks against the CMA) and that in the General Court a substantive review of the EC decision (with limitations) is possible. Meanwhile, the CAT only admits a judicial review of the decision.

Great update as always, Idas.
 

Mmmmmkay

Member
Jan 28, 2023
487
But what is parity? I'm not even sure if parity is a clear concept in the industry. Would parity mean that the developers have to ignore specific hardware in a platform when another lacks it? For example, would developers ignore the PS5 ssd because XSX does not have it? Or the other way around, should a developer ignore specific RNDA 2 features in XSX because PS5 doesn't have them? So parity would mean to program for the lowest common denominator? Or does parity mean equal set of functional features?

I believe it mean equal set of functional features, which is something that is frequently not happening nowadays and happens always in a direction that favors Sony. Could present day COD be considered parity compliant nowadays? No. So I believe that, even if in in the future MS will keep functional parity, the technical advantage that Sony is benefiting due to being the lead machine have come to an end.
As far as I know they've only guaranteed parity in release date, quality, content and features. Graphical parity is based on the capabilities of the platform, ie Nintendo Switch. As we know PS5 does not natively support DX12U features or all of RDNA2 features in hardware. If Microsoft was to develop their IP fully using all of those software/hardware features, it's most definitely going to outperform the PS5 even if they max it out. Not that the difference would more than likely be massive, there would absolutely be a difference.
 

Shirkelton

Member
Aug 20, 2020
6,007
A lot of these parity hypotheticals won't survive first contact with the reality of multi-platform development.
 

Embiid

Member
Feb 20, 2021
5,855

If someone sent me a gem like that I'd add em to my friends list. Shitty thing to joke about but witty

Anyway, Diablo 4 = June 6th. Assuming this gets approved, any guesses on the timeframe they'll open the floodgates for ABK on Game Pass?

A staggered release would probably be the best move business wise, to milk the deal so Game Pass get a steady stream of ABK titles, like one COD a month or something.
 
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cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
If someone sent me a gem like that I'd add em to my friends list. Shitty thing to joke about but witty

Anyway, Diablo 4 = June 6th. Assuming this gets approved, any guesses on the timeframe they'll open the floodgates for ABK on Game Pass?

A staggered release would probably be the best move business wise, to milk the deal so Game Pass get a steady stream of ABK titles, like one COD a month or something.
Diablo will be the test. Do they choose to drop it on GP right away ASAP or let it kinda play out a bit of its own lifecycle for a bit and then boost numbers again with GP? I could see either happening, really.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,322
Diablo will be the test. Do they choose to drop it on GP right away ASAP or let it kinda play out a bit of its own lifecycle for a bit and then boost numbers again with GP? I could see either happening, really.
They would be fools to release D4 on GP any time soon. They would literally lose million of dollars from Xbox players cancelling their pre-orders and asking for refunds. If I were them, I wouldn't even consider releasing it on GP until December. By then, anyone who really wanted it would have bought it. It would also be a nice marketing boost for GP before the holidays.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,196
UK
If someone sent me a gem like that I'd add em to my friends list. Shitty thing to joke about but witty

Anyway, Diablo 4 = June 6th. Assuming this gets approved, any guesses on the timeframe they'll open the floodgates for ABK on Game Pass?

A staggered release would probably be the best move business wise, to milk the deal so Game Pass get a steady stream of ABK titles, like one COD a month or something.

Diablo IV launch doesn't have a PC version on the Windows store. If they wanted to release day one across console and PC they'd need to get that "port" done asap after closing the deal.
 

unicornKnight

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,204
Athens, Greece
They would be fools to release D4 on GP any time soon. They would literally lose million of dollars from Xbox players cancelling their pre-orders and asking for refunds. If I were them, I wouldn't even consider releasing it on GP until December. By then, anyone who really wanted it would have bought it. It would also be a nice marketing boost for GP before the holidays.
Yeah I can see why they'd delay this one on game pass. They can start with 3 and 2 anyway. I don't know about December but defined not before Starfield imo.
 

Robes

Member
Dec 9, 2021
394
If someone sent me a gem like that I'd add em to my friends list. Shitty thing to joke about but witty

Anyway, Diablo 4 = June 6th. Assuming this gets approved, any guesses on the timeframe they'll open the floodgates for ABK on Game Pass?

A staggered release would probably be the best move business wise, to milk the deal so Game Pass get a steady stream of ABK titles, like one COD a month or something.

They should add FPS boost / resolution boost to the older COD titles if they are going to release them progressively on Game Pass.
 

Fabtacular

Member
Jul 11, 2019
4,244
Diablo will be the test. Do they choose to drop it on GP right away ASAP or let it kinda play out a bit of its own lifecycle for a bit and then boost numbers again with GP? I could see either happening, really.
I feel like you're looking at it the wrong way.

The entire purpose of the deal is to enrich Game Pass, not boost Diablo numbers. If feasible, they'd definitely launch Diablo IV on Game Pass day one in order to get the most pop for the service.

That said, most of the potential growth is going to be on PC rather than console, and if (as other posters have commented) there's no non-battlenet version of Diablo on deck it may simply not be feasible.

But if it was, getting a couple million new Game Pass subs (who'd rather pay $15 for Game Pass rather than $70 for Diablo outright) would coincide nicely with the E3-ish press conference in June, where they'd then be previewing a ton of other Game Pass content coming down the pipeline in an effort to retain these new sign-ups. (This, of course, is why I think Xbox will continue to focus their press conference content on games coming in the next 12 months. It's the most important thing for people who might be regularly reconsidering their sub.)
 

CutieYuri

Member
Oct 7, 2022
795
Which would also need a good chunk of work, like EA's did and was even delayed multiple times.

To be fair, Ubisoft Connect and GP integration seemed to work more or less fine when Ubisoft games started hitting GP PC at launch, it didnt seem to have as many widespread issues as the EA app integration. I'm convinced that since the EA app is still in beta, EA and MS had issues with the integration, while Ubisoft Connect has been a more mature platform.

I guess we'll find out soon enough, but I fully expect Battle.Net and GP integration to be smoother.
 

RoastBeeph

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,027
They would be fools to release D4 on GP any time soon. They would literally lose million of dollars from Xbox players cancelling their pre-orders and asking for refunds. If I were them, I wouldn't even consider releasing it on GP until December. By then, anyone who really wanted it would have bought it. It would also be a nice marketing boost for GP before the holidays.
That makes no sense though. The biggest selling point of Game Pass is all first party titles on Game Pass in day one. They aren't going to start making exceptions for certain titles.

Diablo 4 day one on Game Pass makes it that much more enticing. MS cares more about getting Game Pass subscriptions to 50M and 100M than the sales of one title.
 
May 14, 2021
16,731
If the deal is done in time for Diablo to be on GP, it'll be on GP. To say otherwise is to admit you haven't been following what Microsoft has been doing for the past 5 or so years.
 

Mmmmmkay

Member
Jan 28, 2023
487
If the deal is done in time for Diablo to be on GP, it'll be on GP. To say otherwise is to admit you haven't been following what Microsoft has been doing for the past 5 or so years.
Agreed, besides that's development money already spent and paid for in the acquisition but even if that weren't the case they would still put it in gamepass.
 

SCUMMbag

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,582
That makes no sense though. The biggest selling point of Game Pass is all first party titles on Game Pass in day one. They aren't going to start making exceptions for certain titles.

Diablo 4 day one on Game Pass makes it that much more enticing. MS cares more about getting Game Pass subscriptions to 50M and 100M than the sales of one title.

I agree that the focus is on building Game Pass, but I'm not exactly sure that Activision will pivot immediately to being a Game Pass content machine the way that Bethesda has been.

ABK is both expensive and profitable. I think the first priority will be maintain the status quo and ensuring that Activision, Blizzard and King operate mostly as is and continue to bring in the kind of money they have previously.

They'll certainly leverage the publisher to bolster Game Pass through the legacy catalogue arriving on the platform, GPU perks for existing live service games and eventually transition most games over to the service but I don't think it'll be as abrupt as people expect.

D4 may be different if it's well received as I think that will be a statement game to put a focus on the deal and what it means for Game Pass subscribers but like, I'm not exactly sure the floodgates will be opened regarding CoD, WoW or future Blizzard games in the way which some people in this thread expect. At least not immediately anyway.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,322
That makes no sense though. The biggest selling point of Game Pass is all first party titles on Game Pass in day one. They aren't going to start making exceptions for certain titles.

Diablo 4 day one on Game Pass makes it that much more enticing. MS cares more about getting Game Pass subscriptions to 50M and 100M than the sales of one title.
It makes perfect sense if you're a business looking to make money. There's no reason to try to rush a game onto your service when millions of people have already pre-ordered it and hype levels are through the roof. Allowing that game to bring in hundreds of millions of dollars before bringing it (a non-Microsoft, non-promised GP game) to your subscription service makes perfect sense. Otherwise, you're literally costing yourself millions of dollars when you don't have to. And beyond that, there are technical issues to sort out with Battle.net with the Windows Store and potentially Steam, which likely won't be resolved any time soon anyway.
 

RoastBeeph

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,027
I agree that the focus is on building Game Pass, but I'm not exactly sure that Activision will pivot immediately to being a Game Pass content machine the way that Bethesda has been.

ABK is both expensive and profitable. I think the first priority will be maintain the status quo and ensuring that Activision, Blizzard and King operate mostly as is and continue to bring in the kind of money they have previously.

They'll certainly leverage the publisher to bolster Game Pass through the legacy catalogue arriving on the platform, GPU perks for existing live service games and eventually transition most games over to the service but I don't think it'll be as abrupt as people expect.

D4 may be different if it's well received as I think that will be a statement game to put a focus on the deal and what it means for Game Pass subscribers but like, I'm not exactly sure the floodgates will be opened regarding CoD, WoW or future Blizzard games in the way which some people in this thread expect. At least not immediately anyway.
If MS starts making exceptions to the all first party titles day one on Game Pass rule, it torpedoes the value of the service. 0% chance of that happening imo. Once AVB is acquired, all new AVB releases will be on Game Pass day one, including new call of duties and Diablo 4, imo. They didn't make an exception for any of the companies they have acquired. Don't see them treating AVB any differently.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,162
In the event Microsoft has access to Blizzard's catalog, they are absolutely going to start migrating everything from BattleNet to the Windows Store. They aren't going to let slip a chance to boost the Windows Store's user numbers with WoW and Diablo players.