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Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,416
Microsoft will acquire more developers and studios, nobody has to worry about that.

Now large, publicly traded companies within the tech industry? Very unlikely to happen again anytime soon even if this deal somehow miraculously goes through.

I'm more worried if Phil's job is on the line over closing of the deal than Microsoft's ability to buy more things. Though admittedly that's more to do with corporate politics and who's personally involved and I've no idea, but these types of M&As going south usually exact a pound or two of flesh.

Wasn't it Satyas idea? At least thats what I read.

I don't think anyone will be in trouble, both have made so much money for Microsoft, at the very worst they will lose a massive bonus or something. Granted, I dont have insight into the political machinations of the company so maybe I am ultra wrong, but they have done enough good will that I can't see them being let go. Could you imagine firing Phil Spencer and the backlash it would receive? Nah, I can't see it happening.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Yeah, Phil in an interview said Satya approached him with buying ABK. I don't see firing the guy over this. He just won a lifetime achievement award lol.
 

Curufinwe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,924
DE

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,429
USA
Wasn't it Satyas idea? At least thats what I read.

I don't think anyone will be in trouble, both have made so much money for Microsoft, at the very worst they will lose a massive bonus or something. Granted, I dont have insight into the political machinations of the company so maybe I am ultra wrong, but they have done enough good will that I can't see them being let go. Could you imagine firing Phil Spencer and the backlash it would receive? Nah, I can't see it happening.
well if it's Satya's idea then he's obviously safe lol. but yeah I think Phil's been a good shepherd for the Xbox brand.
 

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,438
As someone who owns all consoles and primarily games on PC but has an Xbox preference in the console space I never liked the idea of the acquisition from the off. Ms still have not proved that they are capable of managing the studios that they have with a vice grip like Sony and Nintendo seem to. In the last 18 months they have missed out on Bungie, Eidos Montreal, Crystal Dynamics and Gearbox with a large chunk of that time focused on Activision. I understand why financially Activision is the crown jewel but from a selfish perspective I think their output would be more preferable with these studios. Ironically they seem to have great working relationships with many of them.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
FUTURE SCENARIOS AND RELEVANT DATES:

Early January 2023

Provisional findings from the CMA, it's like a draft of the final decision. That should give us a pretty good idea of what the CMA believes right now. The arguments from the FTC in December 2022 are very similar to the arguments from the CMA in September 2022 at the end of Phase 1.

Does that mean that the CMA is still following that line of thinking? Maybe or maybe not, the CMA is full of surprises :p

We'll have to wait.

January 18th 2023 (termination fee $2,000,000,000)

Original outside date (when the parties expected the merger to be done). If MS quits before that date, they "only" have to pay 2 billion. If the provisional findings from the CMA are really negative, that's a serious possibility.

If the decision is positive and the remedies reasonable, I think that MS will extend the outside date to April 18th 2023.

March 1st 2023

This is when the CMA has to publish the final report (final version of the draft from January after the feedback from the parties). If the decision is negative for MS, I think that the deal is done. If it's positive and they can close the deal there, even with concessions, they'll keep going on.

April 11th 2023

This is when the European Commission has to publish a decision about the case. But it could happen sooner if the remedies offered by MS solve all the concerns that the EC may have. In fact, I think that MS is going to push really hard to close the EC before the end of 2022.

If MS doesn't accelerate the process, and the decision from the CMA is positive in March, I think that they'll wait until this moment to get the deal approved in Europe.

April 18th 2023 (termination fee $2,500,000,000)

The end of the first extension of the original outside date.

By then they should know the outcomes from the CMA and EC. If the CMA has been negative and they expect something similar from the EC, I think that they'll quit before that date.

If by then both the EC and CMA have approved the deal, from then the FTC is going to be the main goal.

April - May 2023

The decision from China should happen around those dates. If MS is still pushing and both the CMA and EC went ahead with the deal, the most likely scenario is that SAMR goes ahead too.

July 18th 2023 (termination fee $3,000,000,000)

The end of the second extension and final outside date in the merger agreement. If by then the CMA, EC and SMAR have approved the deal, I think that the parties will renegotiate the outside date to have enough time to go against the FTC. That should add at least an extra year.

August 2nd 2023

This is when the FTC has scheduled its in-house trial to begin, but if MS can close the deal in Europe or UK before that date, this is likely to change and it could happen earlier and maybe in federal court because then the parties could close the deal.

It could also change depending on the outcome from two cases in the Supreme Court and even the outcome from the Meta - Within case.

Lots of IFs in this case.

Early 2024

If the deal is approved in UK and Europe, but MS has to wait until the finish line in every case and for some reason the beginning of the FTC in-house trial hasn't changed, early 2024 is when the FTC Administrative Law Judge D. Michael Chappell would likely put a decision :s

After that, Microsoft or the FTC could appeal his ruling to the agency's commissioners. And after that MS or the FTC could go to federal court. :p That could be around the end of 2024, early 2025.

I don't think that MS/ABK would wait until then, but it's a possibility right now.

---

So, now I think that MS will try to fast track the decision from the EU while they finish the review process with the CMA until provisional findings in January 2023.

If both outcomes are positive (specially the CMA), they'll go ahead and the FTC scenario will probably accelerate. If both outcomes are negative (specially the CMA), the deal will be abandoned as soon as January 2023 or as late as April 2023.

Thanks idas for the writeup. What about mixed outcomes? EC positive and CMA negative?

The scenario that they get a quick approval decision from the EC, and later the CMA blocks.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
Yeah Amazon pretty much dared them to sue bc they knew they had no case against them. Ftc didn't call their bluff. I think in this case the ftc is hoping the uk or eu block ensuring ms drops the case and they get some cheap I told ya so points.

If this fails I hope Microsoft buys cod exclusivity for 10 years. The reactions would be great and make the regulators look like idiots.
In one month COD outsold every other game released in the US for 2022. MS might get the marketing after Sony's runs out but no one is getting COD exclusivity if Activison stays independent.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Kahn let Amazon (who she was the most vocal critic of pre-FTC) buy MGM without issue. Question arises then was it because of the value? The FTC does have limited resources, and in the case, Microsoft does drop ABK, I could see them moving on to buy several sub $15 Billion developers in its stead to see if they get by (could buy three and it would be half the cost).

She tried, but the FTC was still split 2-2 so Amazon just ignored them
 

lost7

Member
Feb 20, 2018
2,750
Jez is actually one of the better insiders for Xbox (he actually knows stuff) but my goodness is he cringe
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,993
Corporate cheerleading sucks all the time. Consolidation isn't good just cause you like Xbox.


View: https://twitter.com/tyrantraveomega/status/1601225241938006016?s=46&t=r35xVF69o4LxP8ZVQ9ZECg

I think we need to pick our battles. Letting telecommunication companies like T-Mobile and Sprint consolidate is bad and should have been blocked, of course that was during the trump years so they approved it. But this is just ridiculous, gaming is not at the same level of importance as telecommunication or other mergers that actually affect tens of millions of people. Just because the price tag is big doesn't mean that it's on the same level as other mergers and politicians like Sanders or Warren either don't care or are being completely dishonest because all it does is poison the well by treating all these mergers the same.

Fact is Khan and the FTC are playing a game here, she said so herself that she doesn't care if she loses in court but will still try to block mergers. Khan knows that she doesn't stand a chance in court so her entire game is to announce this in order to give ammunition to the CMA to do the same. All for some cheap political points that will ultimately make it harder to tackle big tech simply because this scattered approach from Khan is just pissing people off, even democrats.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
But having COD and ABK in the fold gives MS the market power it needs to assert itself as a matter of course, rather than literally buying every single piece of influence that it needs year after year, game by game, gamer by gamer.

The skeptic would say that you're asking for MS to be allowed a level of market power were they don't have to compete so hard for the consumer. Which is the antithesis of what a regulator would want to hear. They do want companies out there, operationally competing constantly for consumers, rather than buying up suppliers so consumers have to go to them and companies can relax.

I appreciate you're saying that the ABK transaction doesn't bring us to the end-times in terms of what consolidation could do, and I agree with that. And if I thought the ABK transaction would be the height of it, I'd be less 'neutral-negative' about it. But if it were to signal a trend toward ever more consolidation of big pubs into distributors, IMO it would be worth nipping in the bud now.

Consolidation IMO is not necessary for technical and business model innovation. It can accelerate it, but again, a skeptic would say why should a company with capex capability be able to structurally alter a market into a model they want?

To put it another way, if there was no brakes on this, then basically it's a competition of capex among giant companies, rather than a competition of operational competence. Nobody else would be able to compete but those companies regardless of their operational strengths. That's not good for competition.

Yes, a lack of an ability to consolidate and acquire big pubs to jumpstart gaming ambitions may thusly make it less appealing for the likes of a Google or a Amazon to 'enter' the market. But what happens if they did that and were in? And publishers did consolidate away into a handful of these companies? The barriers to entry would be even higher than ever before for distributor entrants. And would be newly high for independent content creators.

It's not to say that the market as it is now doesn't have barrier problems for distributors. But I'm unsure if greenlighting massive capex to allow a few giant companies shake things up is the right answer. At the very least, at the moment, we still have a pretty liquid third party market that has quite a lot of leverage, even for relative newcomers.
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,580
That TGA show was disheartening. I'm glad that a lot of the Japanese devs didn't skip Xbox. But, even aside from 1st party not being there, that was Sony throwing its weight around. Exclusive, exclusive, timed exclusive, money hat, multimedia, etc etc etc. These are not advantages that Microsoft can overcome by "grinding it out". Sony is spending more than Xbox every year on gaming. And it shows. And these advantages get stronger and more entrenched every single year. Not allowing MS to spend more than Sony to try to counteract that means there IS a ceiling.
Microsoft already has more first-party studios than Sony, especially after Bethesda joining. They also have lots of IPs they can contract out to third-parties like they are doing with Flight Simulator and Age of Empires. The Gamepass allows them to get massive mindshare such as Plague Tale and Monster Hunter Rise day one, and attract games that previously skipped the platform like they did with Persona and Yakuza.

Microsoft already has what it takes to make a great platform with lot of games in many genres and with a great customer service (Gamepass, crossplay, cloud...). In my circles, the Series X and Series S don't have the stigma the Xbox One had. They simply need to deliver.

Regarding Sony, they are actually more open nowadays than they used to be. They publish their first-party games on PC now. They opened the gates for crossplay, they revamped their subcription services to be more enticing with a better catalog. The Playstation is heavily challenged by the PC market and Nintendo is eating their lunch in Japan/Asia. It's not like the PS4 generation where Sony was crushing it with no opposition. They had to react when controverises arose about PS3 store closing, HFW upgrade path or GT7 microtransactions, they are not untouchable.

The ABK deal, in my opinion, is Microsoft being impatient. They saw an opportunity when Kotick and his board were being dragged by internal struggles with Blizzard scandals and such, and they couldn't resist. ABK games were already releasing on Xbox and were thriving there, this acquisition is not bringing any value to Xbox that it didn't have already. The only purpose was to bring a competitive advantage against Sony.
 
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Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
I think we need to pick our battles. Letting telecommunication companies like T-Mobile and Sprint consolidate is bad and should have been blocked, of course that was during the trump years so they approved it. But this is just ridiculous, gaming is not at the same level of importance as telecommunication or other mergers that actually affect tens of millions of people. Just because the price tag is big doesn't mean that it's on the same level as other mergers and politicians like Sanders or Warren either don't care or are being completely dishonest because all it does is poison the well by treating all these mergers the same.

Fact is Khan and the FTC are playing a game here, she said so herself that she doesn't care if she loses in court but will still try to block mergers. Khan knows that she doesn't stand a chance in court so her entire game is to announce this in order to give ammunition to the CMA to do the same. All for some cheap political points that will ultimately make it harder to tackle big tech simply because this scattered approach from Khan is just pissing people off, even democrats.
The console gaming market probably has at least 150 million people so tens of millions would actually be small comparatively. Hell PS+ has like 40 mil subscribers which is probably bigger then some of the smaller telecom companies. There is no reason to consider this market as not needing to be monitored.
 

Dreazy

Member
Oct 25, 2018
2,016
Surely if the EU block and the deal doesn't happen that's better for gaming? Precedent would be set and publishers would be safe from either Sony or MS buying them and pulling their titles from competitors which is better for gamers.

MS already have more developers than Sony, and more money if they want to pay independents for exclusives. The idea they somehow need the biggest publisher in the world to compete is clearly nonsense.



I mean Sony were getting killed by the media for having Spider-Man DLC in the avengers. There was even a BBC article about it.

Also lol at your "ms need to take games away from people to teach them" remark. True colours showing there, vengeful console tribalism.

Series X is doing well. 360 sold as much as PS3. MS have more money, more developers. The idea they're underdogs that "need" this to compete is a fantasy.

Yea because the alternative is better, to money hat an strong arm games off other platforms instead, let Microsoft start throwing around that 70b buying up huge triple AAA games for multiple years just to keep them off Playstation, the gaming community as a whole would scream bloody murder lol. Truth is this shit is gonna get ugly either way
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,993
The console gaming market probably has at least 150 million people so tens of millions would actually be small comparatively. Hell PS+ has like 40 mil subscribers which is probably bigger then some of the smaller telecom companies. There is no reason to consider this market as not needing to be monitored.
Even so it's not at the same level of importance as other mergers. Again treating all the companies the same is not the answer. Worst case scenario Im sure that a PlayStation fan would be able to survive with having to either get an Xbox or PC to play CoD or just not play it at all. There are plenty of games and alternatives out there, regardless of what Sony is saying
 
Sep 13, 2022
6,532
Surely if the EU block and the deal doesn't happen that's better for gaming? Precedent would be set and publishers would be safe from either Sony or MS buying them and pulling their titles from competitors which is better for gamers.

MS already have more developers than Sony, and more money if they want to pay independents for exclusives. The idea they somehow need the biggest publisher in the world to compete is clearly nonsense.
I don't want to hear about tomb raider and indies on Gamepass. That was one game, versus...a landslide of other games using the money hat approach



I mean Sony were getting killed by the media for having Spider-Man DLC in the avengers. There was even a BBC article about it.

Also lol at your "ms need to take games away from people to teach them" remark. True colours showing there, vengeful console tribalism.

Series X is doing well. 360 sold as much as PS3. MS have more money, more developers. The idea they're underdogs that "need" this to compete is a fantasy.
It's easy to say that when your defacto console of choice is never impacted by money hats to the same degree. But that's what's going to happen if this deal doesn't go through. They are dead set on buffing up Gamepass and those money hats will be a thing.


Also this doesn't change the fact that Activision wants to sell. Whomever ends up purchasing them won't be as forward thinking as Microsoft.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
Even so it's not at the same level of importance as other mergers. Again treating all the companies the same is not the answer. Worst case scenario Im sure that a PlayStation fan would be able to survive with having to either get an Xbox or PC to play CoD or just not play it at all. There are plenty of games and alternatives out there, regardless of what Sony is saying
I mean lets be honest here. Look at how COD sells, what it offers, and how it plays and tell me what is comparable to it. People keep saying there are alternatives but if that were true why does COD dominate every year. Clearly they offer something that no one else does and have for decades. There have been multiple COD killers announced that have all fizzled out after less then a year for the most part. I have been playing games most of my life and I have not seen a game as consistently successful as COD during that entire time. If Sony loses COD I really don't see what product would suddenly come up to take it's place and that is what Sony is arguing using their hard numbers that have been shared with all of the relevant bodies. Now is that a reason to legally block the deal? No not by currently laws in the US at least but I can see why Sony is playing hardball and why MS wants this deal to go through.

It's easy to say that when your defacto console of choice is never impacted by money hats to the same degree. But that's what's going to happen if this deal doesn't go through. They are dead set on buffing up Gamepass and those money hats will be a thing.

Also this doesn't change the fact that Activision wants to sell. Whomever ends up purchasing them won't be as forward thinking as Microsoft.
I mean money hats are annoying but for the most part those games will eventually come to the other platforms. Look at MonHun Rise. The current trend is for 3rd parties to release everywhere because that is the best way to make money. Even if I am waiting 2 or 3 years if I want to play the game I will play it when it releases. Tunic was one I was waiting for just recently and luckily I now get to play it.
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,740
I dont think its in anyone's interests, especially Sony's to have this go to court and have a lot of deals and emails exposed. Sony's absurd clauses around Fortnite IAP to allow crossplay came out in the Epic-Apple trial. This will have more including deals with SQEX for Final Fantasy exclusivity and so on.

Neither would it be beneficial for Microsoft; emails from execs and so on but I feel they will be more willing to take on any negative publicity hits if they feel they can establish Sony's market power.

Not to say Nintendo and other third party publishers dragged into this as collateral damage.

Either MS abandons the deal or there is going to be some compromises made
 

Dierce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,993
I mean lets be honest here. Look at how COD sells, what it offers, and how it plays and tell me what is comparable to it. People keep saying there are alternatives but if that were true why does COD dominate every year. Clearly they offer something that no one else does and have for decades. There have been multiple COD killers announced that have all fizzled out after less then a year for the most part. I have been playing games most of my life and I have not seen a game as consistently successful as COD during that entire time. If Sony loses COD I really don't see what product would suddenly come up to take it's place and that is what Sony is arguing using their hard numbers that have been shared with all of the relevant bodies. Now is that a reason to legally block the deal? No not by currently laws in the US at least but I can see why Sony is playing hardball and why MS wants this deal to go through.


I mean money hats are annoying but for the most part those games will eventually come to the other platforms. Look at MonHun Rise. The current trend is for 3rd parties to release everywhere because that is the best way to make money. Even if I am waiting 2 or 3 years if I want to play the game I will play it when it releases. Tunic was one I was waiting for just recently and luckily I now get to play it.
That's a fair point and it all goes back to the crux of the argument. Currently at least in the USA there are no laws that would prevent this merger or keep MS from taking CoD and making it an exclusive, which they have said they don't want to do. So what we are seeing is basically an FTC that is using bad arguments to delay this deal so that the CMA can kill it when the focus should instead be on passing legislation.
 

Arkhanor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
775
Recife - Brazil
I hope the acquisition goes through because I still think it might be good for the workers at ABK and the union movement and also Activision has a lot of dormant IPs that Microsoft could revive.
 

Seraphs

Banned
Sep 22, 2022
640

Pixis

Member
Oct 31, 2017
355
Just to be clear if this hasn't been mentioned - there is absolutely no way that Microsoft will close even if they get EU and CMA approval whilst they're waiting for the FTC process to conclude. It is not going to be possible to complete the deal under the conditions of the merger agreement whilst competition conditions (i.e clearance by the FTC) are outstanding. This is the whole reason why the FTC initiated its administrative case rather than the federal route and didn't file an injunction - there's 0 risk of Microsoft trying to close the deal in the intervening period.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
Feels like if EC approves (with China), If CMA is the only hold up, feels like MS would just do it without CMA? (No CoD on gamepass?). Especially if the thought that FTC's case is flimsy
No if the FTC and CMA reject the deal then it is dead even if the EC and China approve. MS and Activision have to many UK studios to get into a pissing match with the UK and try to work around them.
 

Bxrz

Banned
Dec 18, 2020
1,902
I've basically accepted that this isn't going through

Lets wrap this up so Xbox can announce/show new games again and put some of this money elsewhere
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,298
Idas since I'm not a lawyer, I'd appreciate your thoughts or feedback on my interpretation of the FTC's claim "Microsoft decided to make several of Bethesda's titles including Starfield and Redfall Microsoft exclusives despite assurances it had given to European antitrust authorities that it had no incentive to withhold games from rival consoles."
----------------------
EC ZeniMax filing: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases1/202124/m10001_438_3.pdf

f2c1aceebeee78240008b4745a5ddeda.png

In this Notifying Parties' view on ZeniMax games availability, strategy, and incentive, Microsoft says they would not limit/remove ZeniMax titles from existing consoles and have no incentive to do so because the metrics necessary to make sense (sell X consoles and gain Y users) are highly unlikely. This is the total wholesale removal of titles like Skyrim, DOOM, ESO, Wolfenstein, from PlayStation Network and Nintendo eShop ("loss from not distributing", "cease or limit making ZeniMax games available for purchase", etc as highlighted). This page is often being shared as the evidence the FTC is referencing to, but the FTC conflated new "exclusives" with "withholding games from rival consoles", while the European filing refers to the distribution/availability of ZeniMax games for purchase as a whole.

Often ignored is the following section: the Commissions' assessment of the above Notifying Parties' view.
The area I highlight here is their conclusion:
ba0a3d7941f84b9a63c0d6f71bb37efd.png

The European Commission's considerations are consistent with Microsoft's declared strategy. Information regarding future strategy is redacted, but the references are cited in the footer with Form CO paragraphs 7-17 and Annex 3. The conclusion from the EC on ZeniMax/Microsoft's future strategy and overall strategy is that there would not be an incentive to foreclose rival distributors.

-------------

From the "Get The Facts" PDF shared yesterday: https://news.microsoft.com/wp-content/uploads/prod/sites/642/2022/12/Get-the-facts-ZeniMax.pdf
There are multiple examples of quotes from Form CO cited and highlighted above, or in close proximity to the cited paragraphs re: Microsoft's strategy.

"Future decisions on whether to distribute ZeniMax games for other consoles will be made on a case-by-case basis, taking into account player demand and sentiment. Factors that will inform Microsoft's decision-making on future games include consumer demand and preference and the willingness of third parties to work with Microsoft to launch games for their devices." (Microsoft ZeniMax Form CO, January 29, 2021, at p. 5). [Not cited, but in the surrounding relevant topic]

"Microsoft will not make any existing ZeniMax games exclusive to Xbox. They will continue to be available for purchase for PCs and other gaming hardware for which they are currently available, which will ensure that they continue to be available to current players of those games. Microsoft will not be removing players' access to any current games, no matter where they currently play." (Microsoft ZeniMax Form CO, January 29, 2021, at p. 13)

"For future ZeniMax games, Microsoft intends to make these games available for purchase on PC and, where the games are designed as native mobile games, on mobile devices running both iOS and Android. Future decisions on whether to distribute ZeniMax games for other consoles will be made on a case-by-case basis, taking into account player demand and sentiment, Microsoft's strategic and financial goals, and the willingness of third-party gaming hardware providers to run Microsoft games and services. Microsoft will make all acquired games and future releases available to subscribers of its Game Pass service on the day the games are launched (which can be used to play on PCs, Xbox consoles and Android mobiles), but does not currently anticipate distributing them through other subscription services. This reflects Microsoft's broader strategy to promote a subscription-based model which it believes will generate value and choice for game players. This policy would not preclude players from downloading or buying these games outside of Xbox Game Pass: Microsoft anticipates that existing games and future multi-platform games will be available for purchase from relevant digital storefronts of all major consoles and PCs." (Microsoft ZeniMax Form CO, January 29, 2021, at pp. 13-14)"


So, the EC's assessment took into account Microsoft's statements that they would keep distributing existing games and multi-platform games where they are, honor Deathloop/Ghostwire exclusivity contracts, and that future games would be made on a case-by-case basis, while also considering the scenario they did the opposite. Either way, the incentive was not there, and there was no SLC, so they approved of it. There was no "rug pull" so to speak of Microsoft saying one thing to the European Commission and then suddenly making Redfall/Starfield exclusive when they said they wouldn't. That possibility was made aware to the European Commission as emphasized above.

----------------------------

In the CMA Phase 1 Full-Text: https://assets.publishing.service.g...533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf
Third parties complained similarly to what the FTC is alleging here, but in the realm of multi-game subscription services and not consoles:

Third-party views
230. Several competitors who spoke to the CMA referred to Microsoft's behaviour in relation to past acquisitions, including that of ZeniMax Media, where Microsoft did not uphold its promise to continue making Bethesda content available on multiple stores and platforms. [261]


Citation:
[261]Submission from a third party, submitted on 26 July 2022, pages 18 and 19; note of a call with a third party, dated 23 May 2022, paragraph 12; note of a call with a third party, dated 6 May 2022, paragraph 22; and third-party response to the CMA's Cloud Gaming questionnaire dated 28 July 2022, page 29.

It is unclear who these competitors are, but I would guess Sony, maybe Google, and maybe Nvidia given the third party response to Cloud Gaming. Regardless, these are third party interpretations of Microsoft's behavior and what they promised to governments and not necessarily accurate and can be self-motivated (such as with Sony's arguments).

----------------------------

So, in conclusion it would appear to me that the FTC's angle on Microsoft reneging their commitment re: ZeniMax games availability is misleading at best and intentionally deceptive at worst. The European Commission was fully aware of the possibility of ZeniMax games going fully exclusive (i.e. pulled out from stores) or partially exclusive (i.e. select titles being exclusive like Starfield) and it was approved and considered. There was no "rug pull" as the decision to make some games exclusive would be case-by-case and driven by Microsoft's strategic and financial goals.
 
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Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,204
What about if FTC loses in court, would CMA alone be enough to kill the deal? Couldn't MS just proceed with our UK, if it's the lone hold out?
No the purchasing agreement names the UK directly. They would first need to renegotiate the purchasing agreement and then again both MS and Activision have a lot of UK studios and make many sales in the UK. Thinking a Multi-National company would try to cut out a major market like that is stupid.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,000
Canada
Corporate cheerleading sucks all the time. Consolidation isn't good just cause you like Xbox.


View: https://twitter.com/tyrantraveomega/status/1601225241938006016?s=46&t=r35xVF69o4LxP8ZVQ9ZECg

I mean I like Bernie, but I don't think like other politicians they actually what is going on with this deal and how it effects the gaming landscape.

FUTURE SCENARIOS AND RELEVANT DATES:

Early January 2023

Provisional findings from the CMA, it's like a draft of the final decision. That should give us a pretty good idea of what the CMA believes right now. The arguments from the FTC in December 2022 are very similar to the arguments from the CMA in September 2022 at the end of Phase 1.

Does that mean that the CMA is still following that line of thinking? Maybe or maybe not, the CMA is full of surprises :p

We'll have to wait.

January 18th 2023 (termination fee $2,000,000,000)

Original outside date (when the parties expected the merger to be done). If MS quits before that date, they "only" have to pay 2 billion. If the provisional findings from the CMA are really negative, that's a serious possibility.

If the decision is positive and the remedies reasonable, I think that MS will extend the outside date to April 18th 2023.

March 1st 2023

This is when the CMA has to publish the final report (final version of the draft from January after the feedback from the parties). If the decision is negative for MS, I think that the deal is done. If it's positive and they can close the deal there, even with concessions, they'll keep going on.

April 11th 2023

This is when the European Commission has to publish a decision about the case. But it could happen sooner if the remedies offered by MS solve all the concerns that the EC may have. In fact, I think that MS is going to push really hard to close the EC before the end of 2022.

If MS doesn't accelerate the process, and the decision from the CMA is positive in March, I think that they'll wait until this moment to get the deal approved in Europe.

April 18th 2023 (termination fee $2,500,000,000)

The end of the first extension of the original outside date.

By then they should know the outcomes from the CMA and EC. If the CMA has been negative and they expect something similar from the EC, I think that they'll quit before that date.

If by then both the EC and CMA have approved the deal, from then the FTC is going to be the main goal.

April - May 2023

The decision from China should happen around those dates. If MS is still pushing and both the CMA and EC went ahead with the deal, the most likely scenario is that SAMR goes ahead too.

July 18th 2023 (termination fee $3,000,000,000)

The end of the second extension and final outside date in the merger agreement. If by then the CMA, EC and SMAR have approved the deal, I think that the parties will renegotiate the outside date to have enough time to go against the FTC. That should add at least an extra year.

August 2nd 2023

This is when the FTC has scheduled its in-house trial to begin, but if MS can close the deal in Europe or UK before that date, this is likely to change and it could happen earlier and maybe in federal court because then the parties could close the deal.

It could also change depending on the outcome from two cases in the Supreme Court and even the outcome from the Meta - Within case.

Lots of IFs in this case.

Early 2024

If the deal is approved in UK and Europe, but MS has to wait until the finish line in every case and for some reason the beginning of the FTC in-house trial hasn't changed, early 2024 is when the FTC Administrative Law Judge D. Michael Chappell would likely put a decision :s

After that, Microsoft or the FTC could appeal his ruling to the agency's commissioners. And after that MS or the FTC could go to federal court. :p That could be around the end of 2024, early 2025.

I don't think that MS/ABK would wait until then, but it's a possibility right now.

---

So, now I think that MS will try to fast track the decision from the EU while they finish the review process with the CMA until provisional findings in January 2023.

If both outcomes are positive (specially the CMA), they'll go ahead and the FTC scenario will probably accelerate. If both outcomes are negative (specially the CMA), the deal will be abandoned as soon as January 2023 or as late as April 2023.
Thanks Idas you always do great work. So for now we should just enjoy the holidays and then we will see next month how the deal will shape up.
 
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killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
I'm more worried if Phil's job is on the line over closing of the deal than Microsoft's ability to buy more things. Though admittedly that's more to do with corporate politics and who's personally involved and I've no idea, but these types of M&As going south usually exact a pound or two of flesh.

Nah, Phil's job isn't on the line. Anyone with two braincells to rub together can see that regulators are using Microsoft as a political target to get their gripes out about big tech. The arguments regulators are coming out with are all extremely forced, and even if they get the deal cancelled on technicality, or by Microsoft pulling away, it isn't going to change that.
 

Yoga Flame

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 8, 2022
1,674
MS aren't going to stop buying up pubs, they went for the largest one, it was always going to be a challenge. They could sail through with the purchase of Capcom for instance as no one can sensibly argue about competition foreclosure, especially now that the regulators have gotten a good taste of how the gaming market functions during this past year.

Except Khan, but she'll end up with another loss as CMA/EU wouldn't really have much to say.
 

Yoga Flame

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 8, 2022
1,674
I like Sanders but he's lost the plot with this one. What he's advocating for is aligned with current day Xbox and would extend to ATVI games. FTC action is protecting corporate behaviour he's against. Not a fan of Jez comment but Sanders is way off here.
 
EC responds to FTC
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,023
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:

Microsoft didn't mislead EU over ZeniMax deal, watchdog says in response to US concerns

Microsoft didn't make any "commitments" to EU regulators not to release Xbox-exclusive content following its takeover of ZeniMax Media, the European Commission has said.

US enforcers yesterday suggested that the US tech giant had misled the regulator in 2021 and cited that as a reason to challenge its proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

"The commission cleared the Microsoft/ZeniMax transaction unconditionally as it concluded that the transaction would not raise competition concerns," the EU watchdog said in an emailed statement.

The absence of competition concerns "did not rely on any statements made by Microsoft about the future distribution strategy concerning ZeniMax's games," said the commission, which itself has opened an in-depth probe into the Activision Blizzard deal and appears keen to clarify what happened in the previous acquisition.

The EU agency found that even if Microsoft were to restrict access to ZeniMax titles, it wouldn't have a significant impact on competition because rivals wouldn't be denied access to an "essential input," and other consoles would still have a "large array" of attractive content.

I can't share the link yet because it's behind a subscription service (they usually share part of the content a few days later here).

I deleted the images because the same info can be found here now:

European regulator approved ZeniMax deal without any Microsoft commitments (NASDAQ:ATVI) | Seeking Alpha

European antitrust regulators said they approved Microsoft's purchase of Bethesda Softworks parent ZeniMax last year without getting any specific commitments from Microsoft (MSFT) to...

As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
 
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rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
Jez - no lol

Sanders - FTC's job is protect consumers not competition

I hope the merger will go through, more gamers get COD than ever before. Doesn't make any financial sense to make it exclusive in any way. Removing it from PS would be death blow to MS's reputation and xbox gamers would get mad af not being able to play with their friends across platforms. I also, don't want to pay $70+ a year for COD.

Also, for employees of ABK which wants this to go through for key things such as being able to form a union.
 

Azerth

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,176
Just to be clear if this hasn't been mentioned - there is absolutely no way that Microsoft will close even if they get EU and CMA approval whilst they're waiting for the FTC process to conclude. It is not going to be possible to complete the deal under the conditions of the merger agreement whilst competition conditions (i.e clearance by the FTC) are outstanding. This is the whole reason why the FTC initiated its administrative case rather than the federal route and didn't file an injunction - there's 0 risk of Microsoft trying to close the deal in the intervening period.
i could be wrong but i think they can close if the only hold up is the ftc since the ftc didn't go with an injection. most companies dont since if the lose to the ftc after closing it costs alot to undo the purchase.
 

YozoraXV

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,975
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.

I wonder if MS could sue the FTC for defamation then if they are making barefaced lies, especially since the CMA will probably use it against them.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,197
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
So FTC is straight-up lying lol. This whole thing is a clown show.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,298
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
Welp that answers my question earlier with all that typing, straight from the source
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,288
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
Sounds about right.

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell."

FTC pounding that table.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Where is the EC interacting with the FTC at all? I don't see it.

Could be the hangover.

Edit: my bad it was right in front of my face
 

DrowsyJungle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
912
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
Wow, this is going to look bad for the FTC. FTC using other governing bodies from overseas and their documentation to call out MS and while the EC even defending MS in this situation. Juicy stuff, I'm wondering if MS will attempt to bring the case before a judge sooner than Aug.
 

Deleted member 98695

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 15, 2021
513
MLex emailed the European Commission about the FTC accusation and they provided a very interesting answer:



As I mentioned yesterday, so much focus on the Zenimax case and the exclusivity issues didn't make any sense.

And the EC is almost accusing the FTC of lying, things could get serious.
Good on the EC for stopping the whole "MS lied to regulators" thing. Even if you hate big tech, I think can all agree that the FTC and other government bodies cannot simply lie. The FTC lied about this statement. They also lied about the number of AAA game publishers around the world. If you want to advance a supposedly righteous cause, you cannot do so by building your case on lies.