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Apr 20, 2023
14
I'm sure I read somewhere the nearly half the install base is on playstation. I don't really care personally, in fact I'm one of those rare playstation primary gamers that actually wants MS to pull the game of PS as soon as they can. Imo COD has become the poster child for boring, stagnant, soulless dreck that gets pumped out every year because it has to in order to stay relevant. And it's relevance smothers other far better games from getting any traction. Despite the crying by Sony on this acquisition everyone knows they would more than survive losing COD even if every COD player moves to Xbox which they won't. Sure it would be enough to give a significant shot in the arm to xbox but with how last gen and this gen is playing out a significant shot in the arm is exactly what they need. Sony has been the dominant player in the market since 1994 they can afford to lose some marketshare. And by giving other much better games room to breath they would only expand on the already massive amount of quality on their platform and that'sto say nothing of their own Gaas games having the whole playground to themselves. I'd say it's a win win.
 

DuvalDevil

Member
Nov 18, 2020
4,176
I'm sure I read somewhere the nearly half the install base is on playstation. I don't really care personally, in fact I'm one of those rare playstation primary gamers that actually wants MS to pull the game of PS as soon as they can. Imo COD has become the poster child for boring, stagnant, soulless dreck that gets pumped out every year because it has to in order to stay relevant. And it's relevance smothers other far better games from getting any traction. Despite the crying by Sony on this acquisition everyone knows they would more than survive losing COD even if every COD player moves to Xbox which they won't. Sure it would be enough to give a significant shot in the arm to xbox but with how last gen and this gen is playing out a significant shot in the arm is exactly what they need. Sony has been the dominant player in the market since 1994 they can afford to lose some marketshare. And by giving other much better games room to breath they would only expand on the already massive amount of quality on their platform and that'sto say nothing of their own Gaas games having the whole playground to themselves. I'd say it's a win win.

Well, I personally don't care if CoD will be exclusive or not. I think MP games should be played as many people as possible tho.

Having said that, my original post was more aimed regarding the 'relevance and cultural thing' part. And looking at that explosive growth the franchise had and the sales numbers during that time it's quite clear that MS marketing did the heavy lifting for the franchise back in the day.

At the end if the day I'm just glad when all of this is over. That whole Xbox/Sony/ABK talk is tiresome tbh.
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,219
That's…….not correct.

Sony didn't get the deal until what, 2015 or so? CoD was massive by then.


I'm not saying PlayStation 'made CoD what it is'.

I'm saying the majority of the player base is undoubtedly on PlayStation.

If CoD was made exclusive less people would play CoD. And so it would be less relevant to the wider culture. CoDs value comes from the number of players it has and less people would play CoD if it was exclusive, they're not going to all up and buy an Xbox.


...it's relevance smothers other far better games from getting any traction. Despite the crying by Sony on this acquisition everyone knows they would more than survive losing COD even if every COD player moves to Xbox which they won't. Sure it would be enough to give a significant shot in the arm to xbox but with how last gen and this gen is playing out a significant shot in the arm is exactly what they need. Sony has been the dominant player in the market since 1994 they can afford to lose some marketshare. And by giving other much better games room to breath they would only expand on the already massive amount of quality on their platform and that'sto say nothing of their own Gaas games having the whole playground to themselves. I'd say it's a win win.

Thanks for being one of the few people on Era that understands that your favourite platform doesn't need to be the only platform for you as a consumer to benefit.

A lot of Era thinks 'if I like Platform B then Platform B needs to be the biggest and most successful platform for me to get more of what I want, also other platforms should not exist.'

Several decades of business and economic theory show we as consumers benefit more from contested markets.

Sony losing a slither of market share is not going to completely upend their console gaming strategy. If you come to the PlayStation platform for high-quality single player, cinematic games, Sony will still continue to offer this, they know why their consumers are on PlayStation.

And (as we're seeing) Sony will react more to the changing trends; GaaS, more investment in subscription, more investment in cloud, more investment in indies, subscription VR (seriously Sony you've missed a trick here) in gaming whilst still serving their core consumer that wants those high-quality single player experiences. They're not doing this because they have to, they're doing it because their closest platform and publishing competitors are doing it.
 

MaulerX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,693
Yes, what the US does carries weight, but there are plenty of jurisdictions that approved, w/o conditions, completely independent of what the FTC did. If the EC chose to delay or alter their decision simply because they FTC took a stance, that's not the FTC intervening - that's the EC lacking confidence in their own process.

With regards to the notion that MS mislead the EC- I think this discrepancy works against the coordination argument. The FTC - in its desperate hunt for evidence that MS has incentive to foreclose Sony's access to COD - they misread the ECs findings regarding Bethesda. Had their been any sort of collusion, you'd think their would have been some sort of a United front on the issues presented.



I agree that there was no collision because that would mean more than one regulator had to have been in on it.

That being said it's clear the FTC wasn't going to reach out to every single worldwide regulator. That would cost too much time in manpower and money.

FTC knows the deal needs to be approved by all regulators so they only had to persuade/try to influence the bigger ones (CMA/EC). Lina Kahn herself let it slip when grilled that they "share information to try and reach a similar outcome" which I'm sure it's referring to the bigger ones. This can actually be used against the FTC.

There's no doubt in my mind that the FTC/Lina Kahn at the bare minimum tried the influence the CMA/EC by coming out ahead to try and block the deal and use the EC's comments in it's favor. Now we know that didn't exactly work out.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,055
Yes, what the US does carries weight, but there are plenty of jurisdictions that approved, w/o conditions, completely independent of what the FTC did. If the EC chose to delay or alter their decision simply because they FTC took a stance, that's not the FTC intervening - that's the EC lacking confidence in their own process.

With regards to the notion that MS mislead the EC- I think this discrepancy works against the coordination argument. The FTC - in its desperate hunt for evidence that MS has incentive to foreclose Sony's access to COD - they misread the ECs findings regarding Bethesda. Had their been any sort of collusion, you'd think their would have been some sort of a United front on the issues presented.
You can choose a different descriptor than "collusion" if it fits better for this merger, such as "influence" or "encourage". Again, the article specifically referred to collusion with regards the DoJ/FTC sending people to Europe to influence Europe's DMA laws, not this merger, and it's an appropriate descriptor for that instance.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,400
I agree that there was no collision because that would mean more than one regulator had to have been in on it.

That being said it's clear the FTC wasn't going to reach out to every single worldwide regulator. That would cost too much time in manpower and money.

FTC knows the deal needs to be approved by all regulators so they only had to persuade/try to influence the bigger ones (CMA/EC). Lina Kahn herself let it slip when grilled that they "share information to try and reach a similar outcome" which I'm sure it's referring to the bigger ones. This can actually be used against the FTC.

There's no doubt in my mind that the FTC/Lina Kahn at the bare minimum tried the influence the CMA/EC by coming out ahead to try and block the deal and use the EC's comments in it's favor. Now we know that didn't exactly work out.

If the FTC had rushed out a decision to NOT sue to block the merger, would that be an attempt to influence the CMA/EC to approve the deal?

At the end of the day, the FTC needed to choose a stance. They may have been hopeful that choosing this particular stance would encourage other market regulators to do the same. But that there's a wide gap between that and collision or extrajudicially pressuring other bodies to work against American companies. Especially, when there's an argument that the merger would be harmful to American companies that aren't MS (note: I think that's a bad argument, but that's for the courts to decide)

You can choose a different descriptor than "collusion" if it fits better for this merger, such as "influence" or "encourage". Again, the article specifically referred to collusion with regards the DoJ/FTC sending people to Europe to influence Europe's DMA laws, not this merger, and it's an appropriate descriptor for that instance.

The reason I feel it inappropriate is because of the implication that the FTCs interest in the Europe is to help harm American Businesses. It also seems to imply that the DMA in general is an effort to harm American business. But there's an argument that DMA will benefit businesses (many of them American) that aim to compete in markets that are dominated by companies like Google and Apple due to anticompetitive practices. I guess what I'm saying is that the loaded language in the article discredits it.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,055
The reason I feel it inappropriate is because of the implication that the FTCs interest in the Europe is to help harm American Businesses. It also seems to imply that the DMA in general is an effort to harm American business. But there's an argument that DMA will benefit businesses (many of them American) that aim to compete in markets that are dominated by companies like Google and Apple due to anticompetitive practices. I guess what I'm saying is that the loaded language in the article discredits it.
Isn't their [FTC] stated intent to rein in big tech? Which businesses does that refer to? American ones, afaict. I've never heard of a non-American one mentioned in all the countless articles talking about this. All the discussion seems to be about MS, Apple, Google and Amazon. I agree many other companies could benefit from proposed changes, but those wouldn't only be American companies, right? So if American big tech loses $X after European law changes, and American, European and Chinese companies pick up that $X, then it follows that American companies collectively have lost some, yes?

Also, if sending US govt staff to Europe to assist in the writing of *European laws* isn't collusion, what is it?
 
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Iztok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,139
Silly idea, CODs relevance as a cultural behemoth in gaming is for the most part due to it being on PlayStation.

They'll negate a large amount of the value they paid for if they ever pulled it off.

I'm sure you've been told this before but COD was huge before it even touched any console. And yes obviously it got *bigger*, but in the context of when it released, it was as massive as a game could get.

Edit: I see that you clarified more in later posts.
 

Yoga Flame

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 8, 2022
1,674
Silly idea, CODs relevance as a cultural behemoth in gaming is for the most part due to it being on PlayStation.

They'll negate a large amount of the value they paid for if they ever pulled it off.
This isn't true. It helped, but Xbox played just as an important role for this to happen. They created the platform to allow CoD multiplayer to be what it is today. No other console player was offering robust infrastructure and support at the time .
 
Sep 13, 2022
6,603
I'm not saying PlayStation 'made CoD what it is'.

I'm saying the majority of the player base is undoubtedly on PlayStation.
marketing deals and exclusive features will do that, before that the larger playerbase was on Xbox for the same reasons.

If anything the COD consumer is extremely unloyal to a brand. They just care where they get the most for their money with COD.
 

Dabanton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,917
marketing deals and exclusive features will do that, before that the larger playerbase was on Xbox for the same reasons.

If anything the COD consumer is extremely unloyal to a brand. They just care where they get the most for their money with COD.

Indeed the large majority of gamers don't have any console loyalty and you can see why Sony knowing MS could potentially have CoD marketing and stuff like first betas etc, when their deal runs out has definitely played into how hard they've been fighting this deal.

Can you imagine the absolute fun Xbox will have if this deal passes and they get to market CoD again when Sony's deal runs out.

That Xbox branding all over stuff like the CoD leagues, and preffered streamers going back to playing the Xbox version of the game.

Just seeing those current PS CoD ads with not a single mention of Xbox on them. To the average lay person makes it look like CoD is more important on PS.
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,219
This isn't true. It helped, but Xbox played just as an important role for this to happen. They created the platform to allow CoD multiplayer to be what it is today. No other console player was offering robust infrastructure and support at the time .

I'm not saying PlayStation 'made CoD what it is'.

I'm saying the majority of the player base is undoubtedly on PlayStation.

If CoD was made exclusive less people would play CoD. And so it would be less relevant to the wider culture. CoDs value comes from the number of players it has and less people would play CoD if it was exclusive, they're not going to all up and buy an Xbox.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,400
Isn't their stated intent to rein in big tech? Which businesses does that refer to? American ones, afaict. I've never heard of a non-American one mentioned in all the countless articles talking about this. All the discussion seems to be about MS, Apple, Google and Amazon. I agree many other companies could benefit from proposed changes, but those wouldn't only be American companies, right? So if American big tech loses $X after European law changes, and American, European and Chinese companies pick up that $X, then it follows that American companies collectively have lost some, yes?

Also, if sending US govt staff to Europe to assist in the writing of *European laws* isn't collusion, what is it?

"Reign in big tech" is an over simplification of the issues at hand. The goal is to foster a market where consumers have more companies to choose from, and "little tech" and "medium tech" have opportunities to grow and succeed.

Yes, the largest tech companies are American, but that doesn't mean that an American market authority should be supportive of their anti-competitive efforts to maintain stranglehold's on the markets they participate in. Just the as the beneficiaries of change won't be exclusively American, the companies harmed by current practices aren't exclusive non-American. Beyond that the relevant companies are multinational. So what their headquarters aren't on American soil? They tend to have operations in America and have American employees on American soil. So there's no reason an American body wouldn't have a legitimate interests in the proceedings.

I very much doubt FTC staff is writing laws in Europe. Certainly not in an effort to hurt Business in America. I don't doubt that the FTC would send folks to vocalize what we think would be good legislation. But ultimately, EU is going to be interested in doing what's good for EU, rather than work to appease Kahn.
 
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Ratuso

Member
Nov 27, 2021
1,196
I'm kinda surprised that there hasn't been a deal between Amazon and MS regarding Luna. I wonder why, any theory?
 
Sep 13, 2022
6,603
Indeed the large majority of gamers don't have any console loyalty and you can see why Sony knowing MS could potentially have CoD marketing and stuff like first betas etc, when their deal runs out has definitely played into how hard they've been fighting this deal.

Can you imagine the absolute fun Xbox will have if this deal passes and they get to market CoD again when Sony's deal runs out.

That Xbox branding all over stuff like the CoD leagues, and preffered streamers going back to playing the Xbox version of the game.

Just seeing those current PS CoD ads with not a single mention of Xbox on them. To the average lay person makes it look like CoD is more important on PS.
Sony didn't sign a deal with Microsoft so they are not offered parity like they are for Nintendo/Nvidia/random cloud company
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,725
I'm kinda surprised that there hasn't been a deal between Amazon and MS regarding Luna. I wonder why, any theory?
Luna does not have a BYOG model unlike GFN and others. Outside of the exception for Ubisoft but that is more of Ubisoft partnering eith Amazon to be their provider for their Ubi+ subscription.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,564
I'm kinda surprised that there hasn't been a deal between Amazon and MS regarding Luna. I wonder why, any theory?
Luna is kinda weird. It has channels, Luna+, Retro, Family, Jackbox Games and Ubisoft+. Additionally you can bring your own Ubisoft game as long as it was purchased through the Ubisoft PC store.

Microsoft would either have to offer games for Luna+ or offer an Xbox channel that's essentially just Game Pass.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,725
Good point, MS is targeting BYOG services right? Is there any Cloud service that provides B2P?
Not strictly cloud based like Stadia afaik. Their outline contracts and licensing for ABK/MS titles was explicitly for BYOG pc games and nothing more. No MGS or channels or the like
 

RetroFart

Member
Jul 23, 2022
344
I'm not saying PlayStation 'made CoD what it is'.

I'm saying the majority of the player base is undoubtedly on PlayStation.

If CoD was made exclusive less people would play CoD. And so it would be less relevant to the wider culture. CoDs value comes from the number of players it has and less people would play CoD if it was exclusive, they're not going to all up and buy an Xbox.
Thanks for clarifying - I agree with this 100%
 
Feb 19, 2023
1,881
It is also a big week for Big Tech with quarterly results from Amazon.com, Alphabet, Meta and Microsoft. The latter will also have an eye on the UK, where on Wednesday the Competition and Markets Authority is due to finally rule on whether to block the technology company's $69bn takeover of games maker Activision Blizzard, although this is likely to prove a damp squib as the CMA is expected to support it.

Back to life

A round of diplomatic meetings, economic reports and an earnings season in full flourish make for a busy diary
 
Jun 25, 2022
6,790
Sony didn't sign a deal with Microsoft so they are not offered parity like they are for Nintendo/Nvidia/random cloud company
I think they're going to sign at least some kind of deal when it passes. They have to, right? I mean, they should've when they had the chance but letting MS do whatever with COD releases will be a grave mistake for Sony.
 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,771

Back to life

A round of diplomatic meetings, economic reports and an earnings season in full flourish make for a busy diary
Yeah, I think these past couple weeks would have been… louder if the CMA was still on-track to block/require structural remedies. Obviously we don't know for sure but things have been seemingly trending in the other direction for a little while now
 

dose

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,470
Wolfenstein I think fits there
It's too short tbh.

textwolf.jpg


Might wanna show the previous redaction using 'The Elder Scrolls VI' so that people can stop trying to correct you even though you're obviously right lol
The redaction right before this one clearly refers to a game that begins with a short, three or four letter word
Not 'Gears', not 'Perfect', not 'Fallout', clearly just 'The' as in 'The Elder Scrolls VI' just as context clues would suggest.
I'd do it myself but I'm away from home this weekend
'The Elder Scrolls VI' doesn't fit in the earlier redaction, but 'Elder Scrolls VI' fits perfectly.

textelder.jpg
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,725
It's Elder Scrolls I feel like that should be obvious. Though "develop" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that claim as it's not like ES6 is really actively being worked on in a meaningful capacity.
 

Alcander

Member
Oct 29, 2017
789
What does "likely to prove a damp squib" mean in this context haha. That phrase sounds like its means "expected to be unexciting", I haven't heard it before.