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Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,680
Well sure. I know for me personally I am against major acquisitions due to IP ownership(and other reasons but in the context of this conversation it is IP). Generally there is no IP ownership with money hats; Sony doesn't own Silent Hill for instance.

That's the difference in my mind. I just find it interesting that there are people for acquisitions but are against money hats, which really to me money hats are by far the lesser of two evils.
That's the entire reason they got Insomniac and Housmarque on the cheap. They owned their IPs from exclusivity/marketing deals.
 

GhostofWar

Member
Apr 5, 2019
512
Yes, really. The trailer's title is speculative. Here's the reveal trailer with logos.
youtu.be

Project Eve - Reveal Trailer | PlayStation Showcase 2021

Get a grisly look at the apocalyptic sci-fi action of Project Eve.#IGN #Gaming #PlayStationShowcase2021

They had a page up on their webpage but it's been removed, and now your saying it wasn't in development before sony threw money at it even though I just provided a trailer by shiftup from 2019 with a splash screen at the end specifying xbox, your playstation trailer is from 2 years after the one I posted............. Sony got a time machine now I guess.

edit:

 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,889
Why is it over if the CMA says no? Didn't a couple other places like Chile say yes already? Or does every regulatory agency across the world has to say yes before its allowed to go through? People were saying that if the FTC actually took them to court it was all but guarantied MS would win, can't MS do the same with the CMA and take them to court over it?
Others have covered it pretty well, you can't just take the CMA to court in the same way you could the other regulators. A block from them would probably be fatal. Conversely, an Approval from them would likely sway the other major regions, leaving the FTC with an even more uphill battle over in the states. Would just be a waiting game at that point
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,226
Yes, really. That trailer's title is speculative. Here's the reveal trailer with logos.
youtu.be

Project Eve - Reveal Trailer | PlayStation Showcase 2021

Get a grisly look at the apocalyptic sci-fi action of Project Eve.#IGN #Gaming #PlayStationShowcase2021
It's off-topic, I apologize for that.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean about the trailer title being "speculative" and how that negates Xbox as a target platform on promotional footage released for the public?
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,718
That's the entire reason they got Insomniac and Housmarque on the cheap. They owned their IPs from exclusivity/marketing deals.

Sure but there is a clear distinction between publishing and paying for limited exclusivity. Sony isn't publishing ff16, they are just giving a heap of money for marketing. However Sony paid Insomniac to make Ratchet and Clank.

In any case, both are the lesser of two evils.
 

LD50

Banned
May 11, 2022
904
They had a page up on their webpage but it's been removed, and now your saying it wasn't in development before sony threw money at it even though I just provided a trailer by shiftup from 2019 with a splash screen at the end specifying xbox, your playstation trailer is from 2 years after the one I posted............. Sony got a time machine now I guess.

The xbox one logo is literally in the trailer with the 'speculative' title.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean about the trailer title being "speculative" and how that negates Xbox as a target platform on promotional footage released for the public?
You guys are right. I stupidly scrolled past the splash screens straight to the end. My sincerest apologies, I will edit my post to reflect my error.
 

Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,680
Sure but there is a clear distinction between publishing and paying for limited exclusivity. Sony isn't publishing ff16, they are just giving a heap of money for marketing. However Sony paid Insomniac to make Ratchet and Clank.
No there's not. MS published Mass Effect and Tomb Raider. It's just a more acceptable term for moneyhat. Especially nowadays when any 1 person indie studio can self publish.
 

ferago42

Member
Dec 10, 2022
128
Well sure. I know for me personally I am against major acquisitions due to IP ownership (and other reasons but in the context of this conversation it is IP). Generally there is no IP ownership with money hats; Sony doesn't own Silent Hill for instance.

That's the difference in my mind. I just find it interesting that there are people for acquisitions but are against money hats, which really to me money hats are by far the lesser of two evils.
The way I see it, money hats (especially timed exclusives) are designed to punish people for choosing the 'wrong' console, through FUD and FOMO. Whereas with acquisitions you already know beforehand the game will never come to your platform. So, I'd rather have acquisitions than money hats.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,718
The way I see it, money hats (especially timed exclusives) are designed to punish people for choosing the 'wrong' console, through FUD and FOMO. Whereas with acquisitions you already know beforehand the game will never come to your platform. So, I'd rather have acquisitions than money hats.

But couldn't you make the same argument for acquisitions mid generation? The next Elder Scrolls for instance PlayStation owners would have assumed they would have gotten it. At least with moneyhats it tends to be limited exclusivity (there are some exceptions of course.)

I don't know, I find it crazy. Going by Era logic, it would have been better for Sony to buy Konami then pay for a limited release window on Silent Hill 2 remake. There is an obvious difference there.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,376
Bobby Kotick just appeared on Fox News, to talk about the quarter and of course, the pending acquisition :

www.foxbusiness.com

Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick reacts to Warren Buffett's stake: 'Nothing more flattering'

Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby joins "The Claman Countdown" to break down the company's "record fourth quarter" and shares how "flattering" it is to know Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger own equity in the company.
jeez bobby sounds like shit

lmao Bobby: "That's the thing, Sony's not on the phone with us. In fact, they're the ones not returning our phone calls."
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,942
The way I see it, money hats (especially timed exclusives) are designed to punish people for choosing the 'wrong' console, through FUD and FOMO. Whereas with acquisitions you already know beforehand the game will never come to your platform. So, I'd rather have acquisitions than money hats.
…this doesn't make sense.

If given the choice between:
- Waiting a year to play a game
- Never playing a game

There is one objectively 'worse' punishment.
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,039
This might be straying off the topic at hand, but timed exclusivity/exclusive content (which Nintendo and Microsoft both engage in as well) doesn't, in any way, run afoul of antitrust laws and, more importantly, Sony's very meager success in Japan (Nintendo's far and away the dominant player) isn't what's preventing Microsoft from competing there.
I think it's fair to say Sony's success in Japan is meager compared to Nintendo, but when you say that you implicitly concede that Nintendo exists in the console market and competes with Sony and Microsoft. And this whole case that Satya is referring to rests on a couple of regulators defining Nintendo out of the console market.

By all means bring up Nintendo.
 

ferago42

Member
Dec 10, 2022
128
But couldn't you make the same argument for acquisitions mid generation? The next Elder Scrolls for instance PlayStation owners would have assumed they would have gotten it. At least with moneyhats it tends to be limited exclusivity (there are some exceptions of course.)

I don't know, I find it crazy. Going by Era logic, it would have been better for Sony to buy Konami then pay for a limited release window on Silent Hill 2 remake. There is an obvious difference there.
Yes, but now you know TES6 will never make it to the PS. Now you get to decide whether to buy into the Xbox or PC, and still have like 6 years to save money and prepare yourself, or find something else to fill the hole. As opposed to playing the waiting game for, say, FF7r. To me that's way better, since I get to decide for myself where I put my money on with the less amount of uncertainty.
 

PoeticProse22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
809
I think it's fair to say Sony's success in Japan is meager compared to Nintendo, but when you say that you implicitly concede that Nintendo exists in the console market and competes with Sony and Microsoft. And this whole case that Satya is referring to rests on a couple of regulators defining Nintendo out of the console market.

By all means bring up Nintendo.

That's undoubtedly a nonsensical claim. Nintendo's as much a direct competitor as any of them.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,718
Yes, but now you know TES6 will never make it to the PS. Now you get to decide whether to buy into the Xbox or PC, and still have like 6 years to save money and prepare yourself, or find something else to fill the hole. As opposed to playing the waiting game for, say, FF7r. To me that's way better, since I get to decide for myself where I put my money on with the less amount of uncertainty.

But Ff7 is one game. So going by your logic then, you would have preferred Sony to buy Square then rather then moneyhat a couple of games?
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,226
But couldn't you make the same argument for acquisitions mid generation? The next Elder Scrolls for instance PlayStation owners would have assumed they would have gotten it. At least with moneyhats it tends to be limited exclusivity (there are some exceptions of course.)

I don't know, I find it crazy. Going by Era logic, it would have been better for Sony to buy Konami then pay for a limited release window on Silent Hill 2 remake. There is an obvious difference there.

I think many of these discussions devolve into being too black-and-white. No I don't think a single moneyhat would be viewed as worse than the acquisition of an entire publisher. That's creating opposite extremes that have no connection to the reality of what's actually happening. Studio and publisher acquisitions are rare. There's no tit-for-tat of Sony signing an timed exclusive and then MS runs out and signs away another publisher. The reason so many people emphasize the point that MS dropping acquisition money on signing deals instead would be so painful, is because such deals are a la carte... you get to pick and choose whatever is most damaging across the range of the ecosystem, in a manner that doesn't happen with an acquisition. If you take on Bethesda because you think Elder Scrolls or Skyrim is da bomb... you are now responsible for bringing their entire slate to market in perpetuity.

You argued in favor of moneyhats earlier in how they can be helpful because game development is expensive. But firstly that logic logically applies better to an acquisition anyways, because then you're funding and supporting those teams not just for that one game, but for everything they create going forwards... and secondly, games that legitimately need this kind of support to bring to market are the absolute lowest on the ladder for being moneyhatted. Moneyhats are mostly concentrated securing IP that's known or reliably forecasted to be successful, and so it's the games that require it least that receive it the most.
 

Wrench

Member
Jan 19, 2022
1,618
But Ff7 is one game. So going by your logic then, you would have preferred Sony to buy Square then rather then moneyhat a couple of games?

Might as well. It would change very little for the Xbox ecosystem at this point.

I just went to the Square website, picked Games in the header, filtered to 'Series X' and 'Coming Soon' and got the following result:

Your search did not match any results.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,942
I never gave those choices. My choices are buy a console knowing 100% a specific game will come
In other words, a timed exclusive.

buying a console and not knowing whether I'll be able to play it.
In other words, the acquisition of publishers that we have seen so far?

Might as well. It would change very little for the Xbox ecosystem at this point.

I just went to the Square website, picked Games in the header, filtered to 'Series X' and 'Coming Soon' and got the following result:

Your search did not match any results.
*checks*
They released six games for the Xbox platform last year…and seven games the year before.
 
Last edited:

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,718
Might as well. It would change very little for the Xbox ecosystem at this point.

I just went to the Square website, picked Games in the header, filtered to 'Series X' and 'Coming Soon' and got the following result:

Your search did not match any results.

To be fair, except for FF I don't think many other Square games have announced platforms.

Square also released five games on Xbox last year. They actually release more games in there then probably close to any other publisher, including Microsoft themselves. For a company that apparently won't matter if Sony acquires them, five games is a lot.
 

soul creator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,995
But couldn't you make the same argument for acquisitions mid generation? The next Elder Scrolls for instance PlayStation owners would have assumed they would have gotten it. At least with moneyhats it tends to be limited exclusivity (there are some exceptions of course.)

I don't know, I find it crazy. Going by Era logic, it would have been better for Sony to buy Konami then pay for a limited release window on Silent Hill 2 remake. There is an obvious difference there.

If Konami is now first party, isn't the usual justification for any first party console game basically the idea that "now, developers can focus on fewer platforms, and really take advantage of the hardware and put out a higher quality game, since they're now owned and funded by the console manufacturer". After all, that's the justification for Naughty Dog games, Guerilla Games, Nintendo games, Turn 10 games, etc. The drawback for customers of course, is that you may have to buy a new platform to play them.

I guess I don't understand why the same pros/cons that people generally use to explain first party software in every other case don't apply to this hypothetical Konami first party Silent Hill 2 remake, Starfield, or Microsoft's Spyro 2025 or any other first party game. Theoretically, you're getting higher quality versions of those, because of those first party business restrictions, so it seems like people who are fans of exclusive software for that reason would be excited for that.

At least, that's what people used to always tell me when I would argue in favor of a single console standard that everyone developed for, heh.

I guess I never understood this weird moral parsing of which exclusive gaming software is "good" vs "bad" anyway. In 99% of cases, it's all exclusive for arbitrary business reasons and not anything technological, lol. MLB The Show was exclusive to Sony platforms not because it required the power of the Cell to function, or some unique chip that only Playstations possessed, it's because Sony had a good game, and wanted people to buy Playstations, and they took advantage of that until the business realities (and contracts with the MLB) changed. Then it came out on Xbox and it's...perfectly fine. Like most software that runs on same generation hardware and doesn't require special controllers or VR, there was nothing technologically special about The Show that required it to be a Playstation exclusive all these years. It just happened to be because Sony had the rights to that specific game. If Congress passed some weird new law came out that said The Last of Us 3 had to be on the newest Xbox system, I'm sure Naughty Dog would adapt and it'd be pretty high quality as well, haha.

And more directly on topic, unless Microsoft owning the rights to ABK stuff causes such an extreme disruption that it causes Sony/Nintendo/Valve/whoever to not be able to compete or function in the marketplace, I don't see the big deal with the acquisition. "People might have to buy an Xbox now" isn't "harm" imo, unless "I might have to buy a Playstation or Nintendo now" was also considered "harm" for the past 40 years of video gaming.

Maybe if Microsoft was buying AMD/Nvidia or something I could see the disruption, but otherwise, *shrug*
 

Dashful

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,402
Canada
Might as well. It would change very little for the Xbox ecosystem at this point.

I just went to the Square website, picked Games in the header, filtered to 'Series X' and 'Coming Soon' and got the following result:

Your search did not match any results.
S-E releases about as many titles exclusively on Nintendo. So that would also take that away.

Or is Nintendo just a different market we should ignore?
 

ferago42

Member
Dec 10, 2022
128
In other words, a timed exclusive.

In other words, the acquisition of publishers that we have seen so far?

A timed exclusive is not a guarantee that the game will come to a specific platform, as evidenced by FF7R, whose timed exclusivity expired like a year ago at the least, and the game it's not on the Xbox. And please stop trying to twist my words and try to give them a different meaning.
 

Misterhbk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,314
To be fair, except for FF I don't think many other Square games have announced platforms.

Square also released five games on Xbox last year. They actually release more games in there then probably close to any other publisher, including Microsoft themselves. For a company that apparently won't matter if Sony acquires them, five games is a lot.
We've been down this rabbit hole so many times.

The majority in this thread will now tell you those games they released don't count/matter because they weren't their biggest games. In other words they weren't FF7R so fuck everything else.

Which is nuts considering so many around here tout and scream to the mountain tops about all the AA and indie games MS gets on Gamepass.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,387
Canada
No there's not. MS published Mass Effect and Tomb Raider. It's just a more acceptable term for moneyhat. Especially nowadays when any 1 person indie studio can self publish.
Nope, there's an important distinction. Microsoft funded and published Mass Effect 1. It wasn't a money hat. BioWare pitched the game to them, and Microsoft people even worked on it (Bonnie Ross, Kiki Wolfkill, to name a few). They didn't own the IP, and their exclusive publishing rights expired a few years later, but it was not a money hat. They would have published the sequels had EA not bought BioWare.

Tomb Raider is closer to a "money hat". Microsoft of course paid for timed exclusivity, but also took over some of the publishing duties on the Xbox version (such as distribution and marketing). However, it isn't labeled as an Xbox Game Studios game the way other published games are. This is a similar set up to what Sony did with No Man's Sky, and is doing with KotOR. They both even use different labels.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,633
That's the entire reason they got Insomniac and Housmarque on the cheap. They owned their IPs from exclusivity/marketing deals.

Thats how you organic growth, you feed the studio projects until they grow so big they can't self sustain because they own no IP, then buy them on the low. It's genius really.
 

Wrench

Member
Jan 19, 2022
1,618
S-E releases about as many titles exclusively on Nintendo. So that would also take that away.

Or is Nintendo just a different market we should ignore?

That's true, I didn't highlight the impact on Nintendo. I suppose I still wouldn't personally mind if Sony acquired Square...but I was just addressing a posed hypothetical.

This is sort of a tangent, but I suspect this industry will soon see a shift in the paradigm of the 'platform independent AAA third party publishers'. I'm not entirely sure what that will look like, but we see increasing evidence that that model is being strained from a wide variety of factors. I don't think platform holders will acquire most, but I suspect some changes; maybe even new(ish) entrants into the gaming industry making company or IP acquisitions. AAA gaming is becoming a high risk venture in itself. A fair number of companies are relying on one or two Live Service/GaaS style breakout hits to fund and prop up their remaining catalog of traditional/creative releases.
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,039
I see that Kotick also talked with the Financial Times and shots were fired 😬

Activision Blizzard chief says UK will lose out if it blocks Microsoft deal

Bobby Kotick appeals to ‘fragile’ government as video game maker awaits decision on $75bn sale

About the CMA:

The CMA "seem like they've been co-opted by the FTC ideology, and [are] not really using independent thought, or thinking about how this transaction would positively impact the UK", Kotick said. He contrasted this with the EU, where he said regulators had shown "a lot more insight and recognition of what the risks are in the economy from a macro perspective".

About UK government:

UK prime minister Rishi Sunak is "smart" and "understands business", Kotick said. But "it doesn't seem like there is any real vision in the leadership for pursuing these kinds of opportunities", he said, adding: "It seems like a bit of a fragile government. Where's the leadership?" "If I look at our hiring plans, we're more likely to find the next 3,000 to 5,000 people that we need in the UK than almost any other country," Kotick said.

About Sony:

"Suddenly, Sony's entire leadership team stopped talking to anyone at Microsoft," Kotick said, adding that his own calls to Sony's chief and other executives were not returned. "I think this is all Sony just trying to sabotage the transaction," Kotick said. "The whole idea that we are not going to support a PlayStation or that Microsoft would not support the PlayStation, it is absurd."

In response to a request for comment, Sony said: "We are in contact with Microsoft and have no further comment regarding our private negotiations."

About the future of the deal and the FTC:

Kotick was optimistic the Microsoft acquisition would close by July 2023.

In its fight with the FTC, Kotick noted that Microsoft had hired Beth Wilkinson, a Washington-based lawyer who was hired by the commission in 2012 to lead a probe into Google. "She feels like if she is going to have to litigate against the FTC, she will absolutely crush them."
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
I see that Kotick also talked with the Financial Times and shots were fired 😬



About the CMA:



About UK government:



About Sony:



About the future of the deal and the FTC:
Suddenly, Sony's entire leadership team stopped talking to anyone at Microsoft," Kotick said, adding that his own calls to Sony's chief and other executives were not returned. "I think this is all Sony just trying to sabotage the transaction," Kotick said. "The whole idea that we are not going to support a PlayStation or that Microsoft would not support the PlayStation, it is absurd."
Interesting. and about the bolded, even I could tell you that Kotick. lol
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,354
Between Bobby and Lulu, ABK sure does a good job of playing bad cop. I wonder what the source of his pessimism is.
 

chen17

Member
Oct 5, 2022
273
The CMA "seem like they've been co-opted by the FTC ideology, and [are] not really using independent thought, or thinking about how this transaction would positively impact the UK", Kotick said. He contrasted this with the EU, where he said regulators had shown "a lot more insight and recognition of what the risks are in the economy from a macro perspective".
Not a good sign I think
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,316
wherever
The CMA "seem like they've been co-opted by the FTC ideology, and [are] not really using independent thought, or thinking about how this transaction would positively impact the UK", Kotick said. He contrasted this with the EU, where he said regulators had shown "a lot more insight and recognition of what the risks are in the economy from a macro perspective".

Did they get the report already?

Cause this deal is sounding kinda dead
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,281
New York City
Absurd if this gets blocked. Why talk about it still closing if you just get done going on a rant about the CMA blocking the deal?