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The narrative that mainline Pokémon games are low budget or unambitious is ridiculous and tiring.

Sterok

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
XY modeled over 700 Pokemon with tons of animations for all of them. I can let a meh world slide for that alone. SM was a very big and noticeable step up in the graphics and world design department considering how it's on the same platform. So they do strive to improve and impress usually. Let's Go killed any enthusiasm I had for propping them up though, so now they have to prove themselves again.
 
Phendrana

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,062
Melbourne, Australia
Nah, they're hopeless dude. They can't optimise their games for shit, and there's so many things about the last several games that reeks of cut corners. I mean Gen VII is full of cuts to black, most notably whenever you open gates lol. The animations in the cutscenes are super limited too. That isn't something you can pin on hardware. Oh, and Let's Go is literally missing frames in its run animation.

Even going as far back as the original Gold/Silver - Game Freak were absolutely stuck and didn't think they could compress Johto enough to get it onto a cartridge. Iwata comes along and manages to do such a good job that they add Kanto in there as well, which seemed kinda necessary tbh since otherwise that game would have been hella short.
 
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Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,298
Sterok said:
XY modeled over 700 Pokemon with tons of animations for all of them. I can let a meh world slide for that alone. SM was a very big and noticeable step up in the graphics and world design department considering how it's on the same platform. So they do strive to improve and impress usually. Let's Go killed any enthusiasm I had for propping them up though, so now they have to prove themselves again.
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The firs half of your post is perfectly reasonable, but gen 8 has been in development since before Let's Go even was a thing. Why does its existence somehow discredit or hinder the main projects they are working on?
 
Orb

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
I don't see how anyone can call them "unambitious" at this point for the simple fact that there are 800+ animated 3D character models for the monsters alone. Taking nothing else into account, that's still impressive.
 

Deleted member 45414

Banned
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Aleh said:
"B-but A Link Between Worlds isn't from the more modern 3D Zelda line!" You mean like Let's Go isn't from the new generation of Pokémon and as such was never gonna push for advanced graphics? Fair point indeed.

Let's look at Ocarina of Time 3D then
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Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Aleh said:
The firs half of your post is perfectly reasonable, but gen 8 has been in development since before Let's Go even was a thing. Why does its existence somehow discredit or hinder the main projects they are working on?
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If they think that's a good first step for their console era, it doesn't feel me with any kind of confidence. It looks worse than SM.
 
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Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,298
Heartskips said:
If they think that's a good first step for their console era, it doesn't feel me with any kind of confidence. It looks worse than SM.
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It does indeed look worse than SM to me as well, but they are the ones who made SM. Let's Go is only the first step in the console space because it had a shorter development time than the new generation, which was started earlier than it. See my point?
 
zMiiChy-

zMiiChy-

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,881
The battle system still feels so fucking slow - it's one of my biggest complaints when many other JRPGs have attempted to speed up combat.
 
Eumi

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
Their 3DS games ran awfully, and Let's Go just looks (visually) not great in my opinion.

I don't particularly care about budgets when it comes to graphics. If you don't have the time or budget to make your game look super high end and shiny, then it's on you to mask that with art style. If you can't have your game run without dropping to laughably low frame rates, then it's on you to optimise better.

There's a lot of criticism to be levelled at game freak for their presentation, and time or budget shouldn't be used to discredit that. Hell, discrediting people's opinions about how a game looks is kinda dumb no matter what you're reason, with aesthetics being so subjective.
 
Apollo

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,094
Alola is a gorgeous region, no arguments from me on that front. But the frame rate in Let's Go undocked is completely unacceptable. I have to dip into the menus very frequently in my playthrough, and this effectively forces me to play docked because so frequently the menus are sluggish beyond belief. It's pretty inexcusable to me, and frankly I haven't seen that kind of issue with the menus in any other Switch game that I've played. Yeah that's just one area of the game, but it's one that matters to me personally, and at least feels pretty incompetent. And it's not the first problem with frame rate Game Freak has had since transitioning to 3D. Let's Go! only being in development for 2 years or not being super high budget like BOTW doesn't excuse Game Freak IMO here. Menus are a hugely important part of interacting with their game, they should not chug along like they do.
 
Barrel Cannon

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,297
People who think Lets go is a sign of where the mainline Pokemon games are going to go visual style wise are probably going to be for sureeee proven wrong. There's no way Gamefreak is going to make a new game from the ground up in the visual style of Let's GO.
 
Dekuman

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
You know what, a game that isnt broken day 1, isnt half a game for $60 with a promisr for future patched content should be commended. Nintendo fans are sometimes spoiled rotten and of all the $60 releases last month Lets Go stacks up well. Pokemon Co gets way too much criticism, some deserved others not. On the complete psckage at launch metric they deserve a god damned medal compared to what the other pubs are releasing.
 
cainhxrst

cainhxrst

Member
Nov 10, 2018
1,380
I still think LGPE look fine honestly. It's a simple artstyle but it looks really polished and the bubbly, upbeat aesthetic works well in its favor.

Gen 8 will likely be a huge step up from S/M, much like how X/Y were a sizable leap up from B/W and if town is anything to go by, the game will look fine
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Orb said:
I've just finished the main story within the past week or so and the only trouble I had was in double battles, which were admittedly choppy as shit.
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Which is troubling as that is used for competitive play. It is the reason why rotation and tripple battles aren't in the game, as it would run horrible.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Aleh said:
It does indeed look worse than SM to me as well, but they are the ones who made SM. Let's Go is only the first step in the console space because it had a shorter development time than the new generation, which was started earlier than it. See my point?
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Considering their comments and how XY, ORAS and USUM were very lacking in different aspects, it's hard to believe in them. Even with these 3 disappointments, I was still excited in the beginning of this year for gen 8, expected good things and even defended them in discussions exactly this, but since Let's Go I lost the last drop of confidence I had in them.
 
Phellps

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,810
It's funny because whenever I see someone bad mouthing Let's Go, a quick search through their thousands of posts show that they haven't even played the game to begin with.
So plenty of times it's just the usual forum poster saying shit about games they haven't even touched.
 
Jessie

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I think it's more so that Pokemon is a billion dollar brand, and people are assuming that it would be handled in the vein of other billion dollar brands. Its 7th generation flagship game running at 10fps at times, and removing triple battles because it was too taxing, is pretty jarring.

I love Let's Go though. I just wish that it had 2nd/4th gen evolutions at the bare minimum. Triple battles would've been nice too.
 
Pekola

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
You know, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of old people on a forum have to say.

The games will still sell millions and the same people repeating the same things and lamenting how "lazy" or "incompetent" Gamefreak is, will still buy the games.

😘
 
The Turbanator

The Turbanator

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
Aleh said:
You mean like how people use a GameBoy remake to bolster of much GameFreak sucks?
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A remake and a remaster are two different things. Remaster takes existing assets and improves them, while remake does everything from scratch, only basing it on the original. HGSS completely defeats your argument because it was one of the best looking games on the DS when it released (and hasn't aged poorly) yet it was also a remake that added a ton of features that had nothing to do with the originals. LGPE could've looked like Breath of the Wild in Kanto and still been a remake. The issue is that it went with the bare minimum and only about matched XY or ORAS graphically.

Let's Go is unimpressive because it's low budget and a semi-spin-off. It being a remake has nothing to do with it, so hiding behind that wall to defend the single biggest entertainment franchise of all time doesn't make you look good. SuMo looked great for the 3DS, but you should've stopped right there instead of trying to prop up a game that effectively served as a public tech demo.

Besides, Let's Go may look and run like a low budget title, but it's one of the first times in a while that GF has made an attempt to shake up the formula in a big way, and I like that, even if like half the changes don't work or are blatantly broken.
 
Conkerkid11

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,967
No real excuse to have games that look the way these do and perform that badly. Also, people just kind of let them get away with releasing two different versions of their games every single time.

Idk, look at the difference between something like a AAA Ubisoft release and compare it to a Pokemon game release. Which game makes more money? Which had a higher budget? Where does all the money the Pokemon games make from sales end up going? They get AAA sales but don't make AAA games.

Kinda just seems like Bethesda in a way. If doing the bare minimum for each release is what gets them a shit ton of sales, why change anything? Why get a bigger team? Why have a higher budget?
 
Orochinagis

Orochinagis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,548
I played Pokemon X, finished the game but I never understood the two guys using costumes since they did nothing and showed like 2 times.
 
RochHoch

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,918
If you don't count Let's Go as mainline, then the title is indeed correct.
 
1000% H

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
Pekola said:
You know, it really doesn't matter what a bunch of old people on a forum have to say.

The games will still sell millions and the same people repeating the same things and lamenting how "lazy" or "incompetent" Gamefreak is, will still buy the games.

😘
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Nice to see these types of disrespectful posts continue to be a thing here.
 
Flame Lord

Flame Lord

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,796
You know, I don't think it's just the graphics that cause people to say things like that. For me, even when I was a kid, I HATED how they would add cool shit in the third entry games and then remove them, sometimes never to be seen again. Like animated sprites, Pokemon following you, Battle Frontier etc. etc. They've always came off to me as a company trying to milk everyone for all they're worth, but these last few generations they've gotten even worse, not even having a singular third game, but just "enhanced" sequels.

Honestly the Let's Go games, if their "features" carry on to the "core" title we're supposedly getting next year, is probably the last straw for me out of a lot of grievances I've had with them over the years.
 
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Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,298
The Turbanator said:
A remake and a remaster are two different things. Remaster takes existing assets and improves them, while remake does everything from scratch, only basing it on the original. HGSS completely defeats your argument because it was one of the best looking games on the DS when it released (and hasn't aged poorly) yet it was also a remake that added a ton of features that had nothing to do with the originals. LGPE could've looked like Breath of the Wild in Kanto and still been a remake. The issue is that it went with the bare minimum and only about matched XY or ORAS graphically.

Let's Go is unimpressive because it's low budget and a semi-spin-off. It being a remake has nothing to do with it, so hiding behind that wall to defend the single biggest entertainment franchise of all time doesn't make you look good. SuMo looked great for the 3DS, but you should've stopped right there instead of trying to prop up a game that effectively served as a public tech demo.

Besides, Let's Go may look and run like a low budget title, but it's one of the first times in a while that GF has made an attempt to shake up the formula in a big way, and I like that, even if like half the changes don't work or are blatantly broken.
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The jump from FRLG graphics to Let's Go is much much bigger than the jump from GSC to HGSS though. The point isn't that Let's Go is a super good looking game, because it's just okay, my point is that it is not meant to be anything other than a simple remake. Could it have been an ambitious remake instead? Yes, but they chose to put their effort into a new generation instead, and thank goodness they did, I may add. If all they were gonna make on Switch is Let's Go level games then you'd have a point.

The real shake up in the formula were Sun and Moon anyways. All Let's Go did was kill wild battles in favor of Go catching, though it also removed random encounter which I agree is a very good feature.
 
Sp1

Sp1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
401
It's the most successful JRPG series, yet its presentation even in HD feels still behind something like Final Fantasy 10 HD. It's also a joke how afraid they are of leaving their tried and true formula even a little bit. The most refreshing Pokemon project since the Gameboy was made by a random mobile developer.
 
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Aleh

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,298
Conkerkid11 said:
No real excuse to have games that look the way these do and perform that badly. Also, people just kind of let them get away with releasing two different versions of their games every single time.

Idk, look at the difference between something like a AAA Ubisoft release and compare it to a Pokemon game release. Which game makes more money? Which had a higher budget? Where does all the money the Pokemon games make from sales end up going? They get AAA sales but don't make AAA games.

Kinda just seems like Bethesda in a way. If doing the bare minimum for each release is what gets them a shit ton of sales, why change anything? Why get a bigger team? Why have a higher budget?
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Please point to me all the AAA Ubisoft games on the 3DS, I'll wait.
Also there is nothing wrong with their dual versions gimmick. You miss absolutely nothing from only owning one.
ILikeFeet said:
xenobladechronicles3d_preview_4.jpg

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yea, I think Game Freak could have done better
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Xenoblade is a New 3DS exclusive and looks like a pixellated mess. That Dragon Quest screenshot looks pretty ugly to me. The Monster Hunter screenshot seems to be upressed and the environments are barren too.
But again, I'm not saying Sun and Moon are objectively the best on the 3DS, I'm saying games that don't even look as good as them don't get the same criticism even if they're from a series as successful as Mario.
Manu said:
Bookmarking this post.
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Bookmarking yours too just in case you forget about it once we see gen 8 :p
maximumzero said:
Wow, I've never seen X/Y and Sun/Moon side by side. The step up in environmental detail is astonishing.
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And that's on the same hardware. But for some reason people expect gen 8 on Switch to be upressed Sun and Moon!
 
RedSwirl

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
I actually like the somewhat simplistic nature of the Pokémon games. That might be part of their appeal actually -- instead of chasing after the look and feel of big-budget RPGs they remain approachable and easily readable, but not too shallow when you really dig into the gameplay.

That said I haven't played anything beyond X and even that for only a few hours. I can understand if people are complaing about the framerate of the 3DS games or something. And I think Mario 3D Land and A Link Between Worlds are good comparisons for the OP to make -- they go for a similar style that basically renders classic 2D gameplay in a modern 3D visual style. I don't think Pokémon games need to try to look like Final Fantasy XV or Red Dead 2.

Maybe a best case scenario on the Switch is we get a game that kinda looks like Yo-Kai Watch 4.

 
Mario_Bones

Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,521
Australia
Sun & Moon has beautiful, ambitious environments like the volcano you enter and immediately appear at the summit of and the series of temples which challenge you by making you move a couple of blocks out of the way. Ultra Sun & Moon went even further by allowing you to visit the native dimensions of the mysterious Ultra Beasts - corridors.
 
mael

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
Pokemon games usually look a gen late till we got to gen VI.
Seriously Ruby/Saffire look like enhanced GBC games most of the time while the DS games look like they barely the DS capabilities.
3DS pkmn games finally look like the gen they belong to at 1st glance.
Although if you look at what's under the hood, they're all stupidly advanced for what they're trying to do.
There's also this massive disconnect that somehow people think that if pokemon doesn't look like final fantasy in presentation and content it's somehow a failure (barely exagerating).
Haven't played let's go (yet) but it seems more limieted by art style and the fact that it's basically a OGB game in 3D than anything, now one can have a problem with what it's trying to do but that's something else I guess.
 
mael

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
Aleh said:
What else do you want me to say to someone saying that HGSS was one of the best looking games on the DS? lol
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By the time Gen IV came out we kind of were expecting full 3D environments on DS.
I mean this is the tech demo that was offered with DS systems at launch
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I know, it's not a rpg or anything but that was the expectations.
I mean Zelda was doing shit like that when Pokemon was barely going over what could be done on GBA
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Like if anyone ever expected graphical prowess from pkmn, that person never actually played any pokmon game EVER before Gen VI.

I mean Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow games are comparatively ugly compared to games like Kirby or Zelda that were released literal years before them.
 
mael

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,812
Aleh said:
What? I never said that.
My point is saying HGSS is one of the best looking games on the DS is purely subjective and the same can be said about Let's Go.
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They sure as hell aren't the most technically proficient games on the platform even when they just released.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
Are you saying that XY didn't have barren environments? You basically picked close up of buildings because it's the only part of the game where you can get all that unique detail. The same game had the badlands, square beaches and caves. Anytime it couldn't rely on an immediate visible background you were left with large areas of nothing.

Sun and Moon had a couple of memorable locations, but also alongside many bland ones where they raised the camera to the standard top down view since in spite of no grid those environments still lacked anything of interest.
 
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